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Author Topic: The Trinity : Comments  (Read 11087 times)

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guest8

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Re: Trinity
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2018, 05:40:24 pm »
This is what the 70 translators of Alexander translated this Hebrew word into GReek, 300 years before Christ followed by other translators down through the centuries with the SAME translation.

When it comes down to it, I believe I will take their expert opinions. The Holy Spirit or Spirit of GOD.
Which "expert" opinion are you referring to?
Of the Greek (possibly Satanist or Mithraist), who translated the Hebrew?
Or of the translator to English (or maybe you can read Greek...)?
Don't believe any expert! Do your own research...


No before we go on, let ask you what is GOD's Breath to YOU?
In fact, that Breath of GOD made you. That BREATH is the SPIRIT of YOU!
I don't believe that God made man in his image, but that man invented God in his image...


Under Mat 1:20 (HNV),, Ruach is used 93 time in 92 verses of the HNV Bible. IN most  all cases it means 'Spirit'.
James Strong's “Greek and Hebrew dictionaries”, 1890 translates the Hebrew and Latin words used in the Bible to English (the numbers refer to the numbers used by Strong): https://archive.org/details/StrongsGreekAndHebrewDictionaries1890

Elohim (# 430) -  God, Magistrates, Angels, Great, Mighty

Elohim is derived from:
El (# 410) – Strength, Mighty, Almighty, God

El is derived from:
Ayil (# 352) – Strength, Strong, Chief, Strong (tree), Mighty (man)


Ruwach (# 7306 & 7307 & 7308) – Wind, “strong” Breath; Spirit (but only of sensible being); fig. life, anger


I still think that it should be translated with “great wind” within the context of Genesis, which is about God creating our Earth, with everything on it in 6 days (and resting on the 7th).

While I agree with you about Strong's definitions I do not agree with your interpretation and neither did the 70 scribes that translated the Hebrew manuscripts to the Septuagint LXX. Rem, they were a lot closer to the people of those days than we are and knew what and how they were saying it. When they say spirit, then in my opinion it was made that way with God's help.

You as an atheist may call it anything, that is your opinion and I am fine with that.

Have a good day.

Blade
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Re: Trinity
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2019, 04:23:25 am »
I concur Blade.

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Re: Trinity
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2019, 11:08:11 am »

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guest8

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Psalm 2 not only shows the Trinity having a conversation between themselves but Psalm 2 brings forth:
1. a prophecy about the Battle of Armageddon that will come at the time of the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ!
2. shows the infinite awesome absolute power and sovereignty of GOD!
3. the mystery of Grace through Jesus Christ!    (from the OT)

Blade


Click on attachment below and click "open" on the form that follows. the attachment is a PDF file.
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patrick jane

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Psalm 2 not only shows the Trinity having a conversation between themselves but Psalm 2 brings forth:
1. a prophecy about the Battle of Armageddon that will come at the time of the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ!
2. shows the infinite awesome absolute power and sovereignty of GOD!
3. the mystery of Grace through Jesus Christ!    (from the OT)

Blade


Click on attachment below and click "open" on the form that follows. the attachment is a PDF file.
Great find brother.


Psalm 2 King James Version (KJV)

1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying,

3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain



guest8

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Psalm 2 not only shows the Trinity having a conversation between themselves but Psalm 2 brings forth:
1. a prophecy about the Battle of Armageddon that will come at the time of the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ!
2. shows the infinite awesome absolute power and sovereignty of GOD!
3. the mystery of Grace through Jesus Christ!    (from the OT)

Blade


Click on attachment below and click "open" on the form that follows. the attachment is a PDF file.

PJ, was you able to open the attached file.

Blade

patrick jane

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Psalm 2 not only shows the Trinity having a conversation between themselves but Psalm 2 brings forth:

1. a prophecy about the Battle of Armageddon that will come at the time of the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ!
2. shows the infinite awesome absolute power and sovereignty of GOD!
3. the mystery of Grace through Jesus Christ!    (from the OT)

Blade


Click on attachment below and click "open" on the form that follows. the attachment is a PDF file.

PJ, was you able to open the attached file.

Blade
Yes.


Asaph’s Psalm 2 -----Answers about who of the Trinity is speaking! with commentary!

1st Paragraph
Psa 2:1 ..Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
Psa 2:2 ..The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD,
and against his anointed, saying,
Psa 2:3..Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
*** Speaking is either God (the Father) who is speaking in the third person or the Holy Spirit ***

2nd Paragraph
Psa 2:4 ..He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
 Ps a 2:5 ..Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
Psa 2:6 .. Yet have I set my king (Jesus Christ) upon my holy hill of Zion. (emphasis added)
*****The one speaking here is God (the Father)…..seen in the embolden section of Psa 2:6******

3rd Paragraph
Psa 2:7 ..I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I
begotten thee. (Jesus Christ is speaking here)
Psa 2:8..Ask of me,(God the Father speaking here) and I shall give thee the heathen for thine
inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
Psa 2:9 ..Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
*Speaking here is Jesus Christ and God (the Father)..as we see in the (emphasis added) of Psa 2: 7-8 *

4 th Paragraph
Psa 2:10 ..Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
 Psa 2:1 1 ..Serve the LORD (God, the Father) with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
 Psa 2: 1 2..Kiss the Son (Jesus Christ) , lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is
kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him. (emphasis added)
*****The one speaking here is the Holy Spirit…..as seen both are spoken of in Psa 2:11-12******


Commentary:
Psalm 2 not only shows the Trinity having a conversation between themselves but Psalm 2 brings forth:

1. a prophecy about the Battle of Armageddon that will come at the time of the 2nd coming of Jesus
Christ!

2. shows the infinite awesome absolute power and sovereignty of GOD!
3. the mystery of Grace through Jesus Christ! (from the OT)

1st Paragraph
In Psa 2:1,,,the people of the earth are rising up against GOD...We see that GOD upon high is seeing
this as it is happening in the distant future. Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain
thing? A vain thing?

Yes, GOD is looking at the stupidity and arrogance of thinking that they can
challenge HIM in battle when all HE had to do in creating the earth and all it’s inhabitants was speak
“Let there BE”.

I find it incomprehensible that man would consider such a move, even with the backing of Satan. Yet, It
was tried before when the Tower of Babel was being built. The main theme at that time was to overtake

GOD’s place in Heaven. At this time, God uses the same words He used here in Psa 2:3..”LET US”
confound the single language of the day into 70 different languages and spread the people over the
earth.
The Battle of Armageddon is shown to us in Rev 19 and is at the very least a grand failure on the part
of mankind. With the WORD of GOD (Jesus Christ) riding a white Horse, A spoken word is all that
will be needed to end this charade.

2nd Paragraph
We actually find God is laughing at those who would contemplate such a thing. (Psa 2:4-5.) His Wrath
will consume all of them. Yet, He sends His KING (Jesus Christ) to sit upon the throne of David on the
Holy hill of Zion. This last verse also speaks to the very physical 1000 years as HE said “I set my
king (Jesus Christ) upon my holy hill of Zion.” This is not a spiritual event


3rd Paragraph
We find Jesus Christ speaking about what His father has said to him in verse 7 and GOD (the Father)
telling Jesus, “Ask of me” and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost
parts of the earth for thy possession. God (the father) continues to instruct Jesus to rule (the
millennium) with an iron rod in Psa 2:8

4th Paragraph
Here we find the Holy Spirit asking the kings of the earth to serve the Lord (God the Father) or be
destroyed, then tells them and “us” that those who put their faith in HIM (the Son, Jesus Christ) will
be blessed.

As we can see here in the OT, in a Psalm of Asaph, the mystery of GRACE through Jesus
Christ is alive and well.

*The King James Version was used exclusively as other versions are somewhat different depending
upon the year of their printing.

*All verses in the Bible are: “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine,
for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:”

*Thus God is considered the author of all 66 books through 40 writers including those of Psalm 2.




by Gary Gibson (9/12/2018) at Sharing God’s Word

guest8

  • Guest
Psalm 2 not only shows the Trinity having a conversation between themselves but Psalm 2 brings forth:

1. a prophecy about the Battle of Armageddon that will come at the time of the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ!
2. shows the infinite awesome absolute power and sovereignty of GOD!
3. the mystery of Grace through Jesus Christ!    (from the OT)

Blade

Click on attachment below and click "open" on the form that follows. the attachment is a PDF file.

PJ, was you able to open the attached file.

Blade
Yes.


Asaph’s Psalm 2 -----Answers about who of the Trinity is speaking! with commentary!

1st Paragraph
Psa 2:1 ..Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
Psa 2:2 ..The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD,
and against his anointed, saying,
Psa 2:3..Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
*** Speaking is either God (the Father) who is speaking in the third person or the Holy Spirit ***

2nd Paragraph
Psa 2:4 ..He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
 Ps a 2:5 ..Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
Psa 2:6 .. Yet have I set my king (Jesus Christ) upon my holy hill of Zion. (emphasis added)
*****The one speaking here is God (the Father)…..seen in the embolden section of Psa 2:6******

3rd Paragraph
Psa 2:7 ..I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I
begotten thee. (Jesus Christ is speaking here)
Psa 2:8..Ask of me,(God the Father speaking here) and I shall give thee the heathen for thine
inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
Psa 2:9 ..Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
*Speaking here is Jesus Christ and God (the Father)..as we see in the (emphasis added) of Psa 2: 7-8 *

4 th Paragraph
Psa 2:10 ..Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
 Psa 2:1 1 ..Serve the LORD (God, the Father) with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
 Psa 2: 1 2..Kiss the Son (Jesus Christ) , lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is
kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him. (emphasis added)
*****The one speaking here is the Holy Spirit…..as seen both are spoken of in Psa 2:11-12******


Commentary:
Psalm 2 not only shows the Trinity having a conversation between themselves but Psalm 2 brings forth:

1. a prophecy about the Battle of Armageddon that will come at the time of the 2nd coming of Jesus
Christ!

2. shows the infinite awesome absolute power and sovereignty of GOD!
3. the mystery of Grace through Jesus Christ! (from the OT)

1st Paragraph
In Psa 2:1,,,the people of the earth are rising up against GOD...We see that GOD upon high is seeing
this as it is happening in the distant future. Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain
thing? A vain thing?

Yes, GOD is looking at the stupidity and arrogance of thinking that they can
challenge HIM in battle when all HE had to do in creating the earth and all it’s inhabitants was speak
“Let there BE”.

I find it incomprehensible that man would consider such a move, even with the backing of Satan. Yet, It
was tried before when the Tower of Babel was being built. The main theme at that time was to overtake

GOD’s place in Heaven. At this time, God uses the same words He used here in Psa 2:3..”LET US”
confound the single language of the day into 70 different languages and spread the people over the
earth.
The Battle of Armageddon is shown to us in Rev 19 and is at the very least a grand failure on the part
of mankind. With the WORD of GOD (Jesus Christ) riding a white Horse, A spoken word is all that
will be needed to end this charade.

2nd Paragraph
We actually find God is laughing at those who would contemplate such a thing. (Psa 2:4-5.) His Wrath
will consume all of them. Yet, He sends His KING (Jesus Christ) to sit upon the throne of David on the
Holy hill of Zion. This last verse also speaks to the very physical 1000 years as HE said “I set my
king (Jesus Christ) upon my holy hill of Zion.” This is not a spiritual event


3rd Paragraph
We find Jesus Christ speaking about what His father has said to him in verse 7 and GOD (the Father)
telling Jesus, “Ask of me” and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost
parts of the earth for thy possession. God (the father) continues to instruct Jesus to rule (the
millennium) with an iron rod in Psa 2:8

4th Paragraph
Here we find the Holy Spirit asking the kings of the earth to serve the Lord (God the Father) or be
destroyed, then tells them and “us” that those who put their faith in HIM (the Son, Jesus Christ) will
be blessed.

As we can see here in the OT, in a Psalm of Asaph, the mystery of GRACE through Jesus
Christ is alive and well.

*The King James Version was used exclusively as other versions are somewhat different depending
upon the year of their printing.

*All verses in the Bible are: “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine,
for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:”

*Thus God is considered the author of all 66 books through 40 writers including those of Psalm 2.




by Gary Gibson (9/12/2018) at Sharing God’s Word

Thank you PJ

patrick jane

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Re: The Trinity : Comments
« Reply #36 on: March 17, 2021, 06:46:26 am »

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2021/march/matthew-barrett-simply-trinity-evangelical-revisionist.html








Evangelical Thinking on the Trinity Is Often Remarkably Revisionist




Theologian Matthew Barrett diagnoses our drift away from an orthodox understanding of Father, Son, and Spirit.


By and large, American evangelical Christians have conservative views of Scripture and morality. According to theologian Matthew Barrett, however, their most basic claims about God are often remarkably revisionist.

Barrett, professor at Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary and executive editor of Credo Magazine, is the author of Simply Trinity: The Unmanipulated Father, Son, and Spirit. The book—a follow-up to his 2019 work None Greater: The Undomesticated Attributes of God—does two things. First, it shows how a good portion of evangelical theology on the Trinity has drifted from the classical Christian tradition. Second, it recruits a veritable “dream team” of teachers from across that tradition to lead readers back to the safe harbor of biblical orthodoxy. The tone is accessible, but the sources are deep.

How has evangelicalism gone wrong in its understanding of the Trinity? Barrett ranges broadly, but he fixes on the development, in recent theology, of what he calls “social trinitarianism.” Proponents of this view, which is more of a common posture than a monolithic school, tend to conceive of the oneness of God as a community of persons. Barrett introduces some of its major figures, including liberal theologians like Jürgen Moltmann and Leonardo Boff and American conservative counterparts like Wayne Grudem and Bruce Ware.

The hallmark of social Trinitarianism is its willingness to appropriate the relationships between the persons of the Trinity as a model for various social projects. For liberals like Moltmann and Boff, this can mean invoking the equal status of Father, Son, and Spirit to advance an egalitarian vision of society. Conservatives like Grudem and Ware sometimes point to supposed hierarchies within the Trinity—namely, what they call the Son’s “eternal submission” to the Father—as grounds for their complementarian views on gender roles. (Plenty of complementarians disagree. Liam Goligher, pastor of Tenth Presbyterian Church, raised the alarm several years ago in a viral blog post accusing Grudem and Ware of undermining the unity that exists between Father, Son, and Spirit.) Simply Trinity provides a thorough analysis of how revisionist trends in Trinitarian theology have settled into the seemingly conservative world of American evangelicalism.

What’s the way home? In part two of his book, Barrett retrieves classical Trinitarian teachings, addressing the relationship of eternity and history while affirming the oneness and simplicity of God. The doctrines he covers—the “eternal generation” of the Son, the “eternal procession” of the Spirit, and the “inseparable operations” of the triune God—can sound rather elevated, but Barrett explains them with ease and clarity.

Amid these chapters, Barrett also offers a single chapter examining the claim by Grudem, Ware, and others that the Son is “eternally subordinate” to the Father. He rightly shows that the relations of origin between Father, Son, and Spirit profoundly affect our understanding of salvation.

The book isn’t perfect. Barrett doesn’t always go deep enough in addressing either the root causes of recent revisionism or the glories of classical Christian understandings of the Trinity. And he fails to locate the work of Trinitarian reflection within larger questions of Christian spiritual formation, which restricts the book’s focus mainly to matters of intellectual debate and biblical interpretation.

This doesn’t quite match the mode of classical Christian thought. Take the fourth-century church father Gregory of Nazianzus, for example. In his Five Theological Orations, he certainly addresses Bible passages about the Father, Son, and Spirit—but only after reflecting on the spiritual preparation needed for Trinitarian conversation.

In his Confessions, Augustine demonstrates that God, as characterized in Scripture, is a person unlike any other. But Social Trinitarianisms, of the left or the right, tend to make the mistake of drawing false analogies between God and other people. Unless we address that root malady, we’ll continuing seeing symptoms of theological error pop up from time to time.

Still, Simply Trinity goes a long way toward identifying and excising some of these harmful tendencies. For anyone who has read confusing blog posts about the Trinity in recent years, the book will help you regain your theological bearings. And for anyone seeking to recover the riches of worshiping one God in three persons, Barrett will prove a more than able guide.







Michael Allen is the John Dyer Trimble Professor of Systematic Theology at Reformed Theological Seminary in Orlando, Florida. He is a co-editor of The Oxford Handbook of Reformed Theology.
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guest116

  • Guest
Re: The Trinity : Comments
« Reply #37 on: March 17, 2021, 09:22:24 pm »
Looks like another book to read.  Sounds like an interesting read.  Thank you for posting this review and information PJ.

guest8

  • Guest
Re: The Trinity : Comments
« Reply #38 on: March 17, 2021, 10:19:03 pm »
Looks like another book to read.  Sounds like an interesting read.  Thank you for posting this review and information PJ.

with the number of opinions today on just about everything in the Theology, one would need to have a warehouse type library.

Blade
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