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Author Topic: The Trinity : Comments  (Read 6276 times)

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Theo102

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Re: Trinity
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2018, 12:21:28 pm »
Quote
The Holy Spirit is peaking here! Psalm 2:1-5
There's no evidence of that.  The doctrine of the Trinity isn't supported by Hebrew scripture.

Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against YHWH, and against his anointed, saying,
Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
Psalm 2:1-5

The Word speaks through Zecharaiah, but AFAIK spirits don't speak.

In that day shall YHWH defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as Elohim, as the angel of YHWH before them.
And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Zechariah 12:8-10
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 01:06:03 pm by Theo102 »
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Bladerunner

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Re: Trinity
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2018, 07:40:33 pm »
Quote
The Holy Spirit is peaking here! Psalm 2:1-5
There's no evidence of that.  The doctrine of the Trinity isn't supported by Hebrew scripture.

Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against YHWH, and against his anointed, saying,
Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
Psalm 2:1-5

The Word speaks through Zecharaiah, but AFAIK spirits don't speak.

In that day shall YHWH defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as Elohim, as the angel of YHWH before them.
And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Zechariah 12:8-10

If you will rem. Israel and especially their Rabbis are partially Blinded and have been since 70 AD. Until the FUllness of the Gentiles, will their blindness be lifted.

Which Hebrew scriptures are you speaking about. I have searched the Septuagint LXX and have found it to be the same as the KJV. Sorry.

What it comes down to is: do you believe in the word of GOD and if you do what version do you believe is the WORD of GOD. All versions but the KJV came out of the Alexander Codices. Most if not all of the other versions in more than one way change the WORD of GOD in some cases to make it easier to understand. Yet, to make it easier to understand, the translator has to put in his/her words. thus most all of the newer versions are copyrighted because it is their words, not GODs. IN some KJV version, Later copies, have notes in the side bars, maps, etc. that allows them to copyright the book. However, if you ask the publisher of these books, they will tell you the copyright is for the notes, study material, maps, etc. and not GOD's WORD. The other will not tell you this.

I use the Hebrew and the Greek languages to study the errors that are in the KJV 1611 version. 1769 version had removed some of these error yet, there were still some that exist today. (i.e. Cherub - SIngular,, Cheribim - (IM- plural, yet in the KJV they are spelled Cheribim(s), a double plural).

In the  Church (Bride of CHrist) there are both races (Jews and Gentiles)and together they are ONE>

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
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patrick jane

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Re: Trinity
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2018, 10:21:38 pm »
I agree Blade, good post.
Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


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Firestarter

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Re: Trinity
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2018, 10:20:46 am »
Finally a “Christian” topic that I have some information on…
There was some resistance against adopting the Trinity into Christianity. Three versions were debated, until the present one was voted into existence by the powers that rule over the church.

The Tanach (Old Testament) names God as the one and only true God (one, not three), see for example.
Deuteronomy 6:4
Quote
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Hear, O Israel: The LORD thy God is one LORD.

2 Samuel 7:22
Quote
Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God; for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

Isaiah 46:9
Quote
For I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me.

The following from the New Testament (also) names God only “one” God.
1 Corinthians 8:6
Quote
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Before Jesus there were several religions that followed a Trinity as the highest: https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-tools/booklets/is-god-a-trinity/how-ancient-trinitarian-gods-influenced-adoption-of-the

In Egypt “The Hymn to Amun” decreed that “No god came into being before him” and that “All gods are three: Amun, Re and Ptah”.
In Germanic nations the 3 Gods were Wodan, Thor and Fricco.
In India Hinduism was already founded more than 3,000 years ago. The 3 Gods – Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva - form a Trinity (I once asked a Hindu, who told me that they can be compared to the three in one God of Christanity).
See the picture of the 3 Gods, even the halo around their heads was copied by Christianity…


The Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit) isn’t in the Tenach but first appears in the New Testament. The most interesting appearance of the Holy Ghost, is where Mary is “found” with his child.
Matthew 1:18
Quote
Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

According to the New Testament, Jesus Christ named the Trinity - Father, Word, Holy Ghost; Father, Son, Holy Ghost; Spirit, water, blood - as three parts of the same God…
1 John 5:7-8
Quote
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Matthew 28:19
Quote
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Following are some numerological arguments to illustrate that the Trinity, triangle is really Satanic.
The Babylonians believed in a Trinity, and used the sexagesimal (60) number system from which comes 60 minutes in an hour, 60 seconds in a minute, 360 (60×6) degrees in a circle and 60 degrees in each angle of an equilateral triangle and so on. 360 divided by 10 = 36; 6 * 6 = 36; 2 * 3 = 6.
An even triangle has 3 corners of 60 degrees, 60, 60, 60 representing 666.
The numbers from 1 to 36 total 666 like this: 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 + 7 + 8 + 9 + 10 + 11 + 12 + 13 + 14 + 15 + 16 + 17 + 18 + 19 + 20 + 21 + 22 + 23 + 24 + 25 + 26 + 27 + 28 + 29 + 30 + 31 + 32 + 33 + 34 + 35 + 36 = 666

In witchcraft also a Trinity symbol is used, see for example these wiccan chalices.


The same (satanic) symbol is even used on some editions of the New King James Bible and the New International Version of the Bible.

Theo102

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Re: Trinity
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2018, 02:17:52 pm »
"The Tanach (Old Testament) names God as the one and only true God (one, not three), see for example."

The "God' is ambiguous and of little value when trying to understand the doctrine of the Trinity.
In the Bible the word "God' is typically a translation of the plural Hebrew word Elohim.

Deuteronomy 6:4 Names YHWH as the singular Elah, not Elohim.

שמע ישראל יהוה אלהינו יהוה אחד

Hear Israel, YHWH Elohynuw, YHWH one.

In Isaiah 46:9 the first "God" is a translation of El, and the second is of Elohim.

זכרו ראשנות מעולם כי אנכי אל ואין עוד אלהים ואפס

Remember the former things of old: for I am El, and there is no other Elohim like me.
Isaiah 46:9

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/isaiah/46-9.htm

patrick jane

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Re: Trinity
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2018, 03:37:24 pm »
"The Tanach (Old Testament) names God as the one and only true God (one, not three), see for example."

The "God' is ambiguous and of little value when trying to understand the doctrine of the Trinity.
In the Bible the word "God' is typically a translation of the plural Hebrew word Elohim.

Deuteronomy 6:4 Names YHWH as the singular Elah, not Elohim.

שמע ישראל יהוה אלהינו יהוה אחד

Hear Israel, YHWH Elohynuw, YHWH one.

In Isaiah 46:9 the first "God" is a translation of El, and the second is of Elohim.

זכרו ראשנות מעולם כי אנכי אל ואין עוד אלהים ואפס

Remember the former things of old: for I am El, and there is no other Elohim like me.
Isaiah 46:9

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/isaiah/46-9.htm
"If you have seen me you have seen the Father"  "I and my Father are one"  The Word is God and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. You can ignore the clear and plain words of God at your own peril. Go to hell !!!
Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


Copyright Disclaimer: All audio and music belongs to the owner/creator. This is a non-profit. Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.

Bladerunner

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Re: Trinity
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2018, 07:47:28 pm »
Finally a “Christian” topic that I have some information on…
There was some resistance against adopting the Trinity into Christianity. Three versions were debated, until the present one was voted into existence by the powers that rule over the church.

The Tanach (Old Testament) names God as the one and only true God (one, not three), see for example.
Deuteronomy 6:4
Quote
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Hear, O Israel: The LORD thy God is one LORD.

2 Samuel 7:22
Quote
Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God; for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

Isaiah 46:9
Quote
For I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me.

The following from the New Testament (also) names God only “one” God.
1 Corinthians 8:6
Quote
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Before Jesus there were several religions that followed a Trinity as the highest: https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-tools/booklets/is-god-a-trinity/how-ancient-trinitarian-gods-influenced-adoption-of-the

In Egypt “The Hymn to Amun” decreed that “No god came into being before him” and that “All gods are three: Amun, Re and Ptah”.
In Germanic nations the 3 Gods were Wodan, Thor and Fricco.
In India Hinduism was already founded more than 3,000 years ago. The 3 Gods – Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva - form a Trinity (I once asked a Hindu, who told me that they can be compared to the three in one God of Christanity).
See the picture of the 3 Gods, even the halo around their heads was copied by Christianity…


The Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit) isn’t in the Tenach but first appears in the New Testament. The most interesting appearance of the Holy Ghost, is where Mary is “found” with his child.
Matthew 1:18
Quote
Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

According to the New Testament, Jesus Christ named the Trinity - Father, Word, Holy Ghost; Father, Son, Holy Ghost; Spirit, water, blood - as three parts of the same God…
1 John 5:7-8
Quote
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Matthew 28:19
Quote
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Following are some numerological arguments to illustrate that the Trinity, triangle is really Satanic.
The Babylonians believed in a Trinity, and used the sexagesimal (60) number system from which comes 60 minutes in an hour, 60 seconds in a minute, 360 (60×6) degrees in a circle and 60 degrees in each angle of an equilateral triangle and so on. 360 divided by 10 = 36; 6 * 6 = 36; 2 * 3 = 6.
An even triangle has 3 corners of 60 degrees, 60, 60, 60 representing 666.
The numbers from 1 to 36 total 666 like this: 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 + 7 + 8 + 9 + 10 + 11 + 12 + 13 + 14 + 15 + 16 + 17 + 18 + 19 + 20 + 21 + 22 + 23 + 24 + 25 + 26 + 27 + 28 + 29 + 30 + 31 + 32 + 33 + 34 + 35 + 36 = 666

In witchcraft also a Trinity symbol is used, see for example these wiccan chalices.


The same (satanic) symbol is even used on some editions of the New King James Bible and the New International Version of the Bible.


I would not have believed it except: "The Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit) isn’t in the Tenach but first appears in the New Testament."

I think the Holy Spirit was around from the beginning, Gen 1:2..."And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."


Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

patrick jane

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Re: Trinity
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2018, 08:54:45 pm »
Quote
I would not have believed it except: "The Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit) isn’t in the Tenach but first appears in the New Testament."

I think the Holy Spirit was around from the beginning, Gen 1:2..."And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."


Blade
Oh yes, all three were there in the beginning and way before the beginning.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 03:53:15 am by patrick jane »
Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


Copyright Disclaimer: All audio and music belongs to the owner/creator. This is a non-profit. Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.

Theo102

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Re: Trinity
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2018, 12:14:23 am »

"If you have seen me you have seen the Father"  "I and my Father are one"  The Word is God and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. You can ignore the clear and plain words of God at your own peril. Go to hell !!!
[/quote]
Do you really think I should go to hell for showing how the Hebrew text has been mistranslated?
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Firestarter

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Re: Trinity
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2018, 09:51:59 am »
I think the Holy Spirit was around from the beginning, Gen 1:2..."And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."
Even though I'll admit that I have never understood what this "Holy Spirit" means, I disagree with your interpretation.
As far as I can tell, the Hebrew phrase "ruach elohim" was wrongfully translated with "Spirit of God".

Rűach has the meanings - wind, spirit, breath.
Elohim means "great" or "God".
Theoretically you could translate it with "Spirit of God", but it could also mean "breath of God" or "great wind".
Within the context of Genesis, "great wind" appears to be a fitting translation.

It always amazes me that Christians themselves believe that they go to Heaven above, no matter what atrocities they've done (although most Christians get very afraid when they are close to death), but believe that non-Christians are destined for the Hell below...

Theo102

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Re: Trinity
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2018, 01:24:11 pm »
Quote
Rűach has the meanings - wind, spirit, breath.
Elohim means "great" or "God".
Theoretically you could translate it with "Spirit of God", but it could also mean "breath of God" or "great wind".
Within the context of Genesis, "great wind" appears to be a fitting translation.

Elohim means more than "great". It's a plural Hebrew word which is typically used as if it were singular. It's typically used in reference to divine beings, but is also associated with "I AM", i.e. consciousness. The main problem is that G-d is a direct transliteration of the name of a semitic deity of fortune who is mentioned in Isaiah:

But ye are they that forsake YHWH, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for GD, and that furnish the drink offering unto MNY.
Isaiah 65:11
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Re: Trinity
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2018, 08:23:41 pm »
Quote
Rűach has the meanings - wind, spirit, breath.
Elohim means "great" or "God".
Theoretically you could translate it with "Spirit of God", but it could also mean "breath of God" or "great wind".
Within the context of Genesis, "great wind" appears to be a fitting translation.

Elohim means more than "great". It's a plural Hebrew word which is typically used as if it were singular. It's typically used in reference to divine beings, but is also associated with "I AM", i.e. consciousness. The main problem is that G-d is a direct transliteration of the name of a semitic deity of fortune who is mentioned in Isaiah:

But ye are they that forsake YHWH, that forget my holy mountain, that prepare a table for GD, and that furnish the drink offering unto MNY.
Isaiah 65:11



No before we go on, let ask you what is GOD's Breath to YOU?
In fact, that Breath of GOD made you. That BREATH is the SPIRIT of YOU!

Under Mat 1:20 (HNV),, Ruach is used 93 time in 92 verses of the HNV Bible. IN most  all cases it means 'Spirit'. This is what the 70 translators of Alexander translated this Hebrew word into GReek, 300 years before Christ followed by other translators down through the centuries with the SAME translation.

When it comes down to it, I believe I will take their expert opinions. The Holy Spirit or Spirit of GOD.

Blade




1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
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Firestarter

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Re: Trinity
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2018, 09:55:05 am »
This is what the 70 translators of Alexander translated this Hebrew word into GReek, 300 years before Christ followed by other translators down through the centuries with the SAME translation.

When it comes down to it, I believe I will take their expert opinions. The Holy Spirit or Spirit of GOD.
Which "expert" opinion are you referring to?
Of the Greek (possibly Satanist or Mithraist), who translated the Hebrew?
Or of the translator to English (or maybe you can read Greek...)?
Don't believe any expert! Do your own research...


No before we go on, let ask you what is GOD's Breath to YOU?
In fact, that Breath of GOD made you. That BREATH is the SPIRIT of YOU!
I don't believe that God made man in his image, but that man invented God in his image...


Under Mat 1:20 (HNV),, Ruach is used 93 time in 92 verses of the HNV Bible. IN most  all cases it means 'Spirit'.
James Strong's “Greek and Hebrew dictionaries”, 1890 translates the Hebrew and Latin words used in the Bible to English (the numbers refer to the numbers used by Strong): https://archive.org/details/StrongsGreekAndHebrewDictionaries1890

Elohim (# 430) -  God, Magistrates, Angels, Great, Mighty

Elohim is derived from:
El (# 410) – Strength, Mighty, Almighty, God

El is derived from:
Ayil (# 352) – Strength, Strong, Chief, Strong (tree), Mighty (man)


Ruwach (# 7306 & 7307 & 7308) – Wind, “strong” Breath; Spirit (but only of sensible being); fig. life, anger


I still think that it should be translated with “great wind” within the context of Genesis, which is about God creating our Earth, with everything on it in 6 days (and resting on the 7th).
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 10:00:16 am by Firestarter »
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Atlantis, Fallen Angels, and Archaic DNA - ROBERT SEPEHR by patrick jane
Today at 10:41:00 am

ROBERT SEPEHR - ANTHROPOLOGY - Myths and Mythology by patrick jane
Today at 10:40:45 am

Why You Should Fight The Spirit Of Anger - Demons Never Travel Alone by patrick jane
Today at 10:29:34 am

LION OF JUDAH VIDEOS by patrick jane
Today at 10:27:34 am

John MacArthur by patrick jane
Today at 09:18:24 am

A warning from the 1960'S- If I were the Devil by Chaplain Mark Schmidt
January 23, 2021, 11:34:26 pm

Scriptures - Verse Of The Day and Discussion by Chaplain Mark Schmidt
January 23, 2021, 10:54:30 pm

The Problem is Enmity, Not Ethnicity by Bladerunner
January 23, 2021, 10:24:53 pm