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Author Topic: The Genealogy of Jesus  (Read 3835 times)

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Bladerunner

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The Genealogy of Jesus
« on: May 03, 2019, 07:52:20 pm »
Hidden:  I was just reading through the 1st chapter of Matthew and all the begats and I read something I never paid attention to before. Joseph, Mary's husband is a descendant of King David not Mary. So I was trying to find what Lineage Mary is from. I can't find it, even when I did a web search. So who is Mary a descendant of?

Hello Hidden.. The answer is both of them Joseph and Mary are descendants of King David. Let me expand this for you!

God had already announced his plans to have the messiah (a Future King of Judea) born to a virgin and from the house of Judah or King David. There was one catch! God had placed a blood curse on Jeconiah (also known as Jehoiachin) which prevented any male from prospering (not being able to rule from or sit upon the Throne of David). Thus, this would not allow Jesus (if born of Joseph) to be a King of Judea, as the prophecies announced.

A big problem. The solution is simple. Jesus will be born of another in the royal line of King David that has no such curse upon it. (Jer 22:30).

In the synoptic Gospels, Matthew gives the genealogy of Judah from the Levi (Jewish) point of view. Matthew traces the line from Abraham through David, Solomon to Joseph who will become the "Legal" father of Jesus. (Mat 1:1-16).

In another of the Gospels, Luke (a doctor), portrays Jesus as the "Son of Man". Here Luke traces the genealogy from Mary to Heli (her father) to Nathan (2nd surviving son of Bathsheba) to David, to Abraham, to Adam. (Luke 3:23-38)..Notice the genealogy is backwards

Hope this helps.

Blade
« Last Edit: July 04, 2019, 08:27:37 pm by patrick jane »
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

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patrick jane

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Re: The Genealogy of Jesus
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2019, 04:57:29 am »
I never tried to study genealogies, too many names.
Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins, the gospel of our salvation, and repenting, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


Copyright Disclaimer: All audio and music belongs to the owner/creator. This is a non-profit. Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.

Bladerunner

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Re: The Genealogy of Jesus
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2019, 02:27:22 pm »
I never tried to study genealogies, too many names.

Genealogies are the way tells us the amount of time that has passed or the time it is.  To study them is only to understand them. (why are they so frequent, different and so limiting.

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

patrick jane

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Re: The Genealogy of Jesus
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2019, 11:23:04 am »
I never tried to study genealogies, too many names.

Genealogies are the way tells us the amount of time that has passed or the time it is.  To study them is only to understand them. (why are they so frequent, different and so limiting.

Blade

True, thanks.
Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins, the gospel of our salvation, and repenting, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


Copyright Disclaimer: All audio and music belongs to the owner/creator. This is a non-profit. Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.

Bladerunner

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Re: The Genealogy of Jesus
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2019, 07:27:10 pm »
I never tried to study genealogies, too many names.

Genealogies are the way tells us the amount of time that has passed or the time it is.  To study them is only to understand them. (why are they so frequent, different and so limiting.

Blade

True, thanks.


If one looks at the genealogy of ADAM in Genesis 5, we find that Adam begat Seith ; Seith begat Enosh ; Enosh begat Kenan/Cainan ;  Kenan/Cainan begat Mahalaleel ; Mahalaleel begat Jared ; Jared begat Enoch; Enoch begat Methuselah ; Methuselah begat Lamech ; Lamech begat Noah

These are all Hebrew names and because of this, they all have a meaning.

Here is the meaning of each of these names.  ADAM = Man ; Seith = appointed ; Enosh = Mortal ; Kenan = sorrow ; Mahalaleel = The Blessed God ; Jared = Shall Come Down ; Enoch = Teaching ; Methuselah = His Death shall bring ; Lamech = The Despairing ; Noah = Rest or Comfort

If we put these together in one sentence it would read.

Man [is] appointed mortal sorrow [;] The Blessed God shall come down teaching His death shall bring the despairing rest or comfort.  [emphasis added]

Jesus Christ is the Blessed GOD in Genesis 5.

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

Geoff

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Re: The Genealogy of Jesus
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2019, 06:08:17 am »
Hidden:  I was just reading through the 1st chapter of Matthew and all the begats and I read something I never paid attention to before. Joseph, Mary's husband is a descendant of King David not Mary. So I was trying to find what Lineage Mary is from. I can't find it, even when I did a web search. So who is Mary a descendant of?

Hello Hidden.. The answer is both of them Joseph and Mary are descendants of King David. Let me expand this for you!

God had already announced his plans to have the messiah (a Future King of Judea) born to a virgin and from the house of Judah or King David. There was one catch! God had placed a blood curse on Jeconiah (also known as Jehoiachin) which prevented any male from prospering (not being able to rule from or sit upon the Throne of David). Thus, this would not allow Jesus (if born of Joseph) to be a King of Judea, as the prophecies announced.

A big problem. The solution is simple. Jesus will be born of another in the royal line of King David that has no such curse upon it. (Jer 22:30).

In the synoptic Gospels, Matthew gives the genealogy of Judah from the Levi (Jewish) point of view. Matthew traces the line from Abraham through David, Solomon to Joseph who will become the "Legal" father of Jesus. (Mat 1:1-16).

In another of the Gospels, Luke (a doctor), portrays Jesus as the "Son of Man". Here Luke traces the genealogy from Mary to Heli (her father) to Nathan (2nd surviving son of Bathsheba) to David, to Abraham, to Adam. (Luke 3:23-38)..Notice the genealogy is backwards

Hope this helps.

Blade

Another big problem!
Luk 3:23  And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,
There is no mention of Mary in Luke's genealogical record.
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Bladerunner

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Re: The Genealogy of Jesus
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2019, 05:52:45 pm »
Hidden:  I was just reading through the 1st chapter of Matthew and all the begats and I read something I never paid attention to before. Joseph, Mary's husband is a descendant of King David not Mary. So I was trying to find what Lineage Mary is from. I can't find it, even when I did a web search. So who is Mary a descendant of?

Hello Hidden.. The answer is both of them Joseph and Mary are descendants of King David. Let me expand this for you!

God had already announced his plans to have the messiah (a Future King of Judea) born to a virgin and from the house of Judah or King David. There was one catch! God had placed a blood curse on Jeconiah (also known as Jehoiachin) which prevented any male from prospering (not being able to rule from or sit upon the Throne of David). Thus, this would not allow Jesus (if born of Joseph) to be a King of Judea, as the prophecies announced.

A big problem. The solution is simple. Jesus will be born of another in the royal line of King David that has no such curse upon it. (Jer 22:30).

In the synoptic Gospels, Matthew gives the genealogy of Judah from the Levi (Jewish) point of view. Matthew traces the line from Abraham through David, Solomon to Joseph who will become the "Legal" father of Jesus. (Mat 1:1-16).

In another of the Gospels, Luke (a doctor), portrays Jesus as the "Son of Man". Here Luke traces the genealogy from Mary to Heli (her father) to Nathan (2nd surviving son of Bathsheba) to David, to Abraham, to Adam. (Luke 3:23-38)..Notice the genealogy is backwards

Hope this helps.

Blade

Another big problem!
Luk 3:23  And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,
There is no mention of Mary in Luke's genealogical record.

Hello, Geoff...... Glad to have you on this forum.....

there are two genealogies of Jesus......... One is run through Abraham to Jesus and the other Luke's.

Keep in mind that Joseph's line had a blood curse upon them.  NO (MALE) child of that line could sit on the throne....Which would have also affected Jesus.

Joseph was the legal son of HELI....In other passages, we are told Heli is Mary's father...It was the custom where there were no males in the household, for the father to adopt the son-in-law and thus stabilizing the inheritance of the land, etc.  This is the reason why Joseph is listed ass the Son of Heli. (being the legal son of Heli).

Hope this helps

Blade


1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

Geoff

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Re: The Genealogy of Jesus
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2019, 08:45:17 am »


Hello, Geoff...... Glad to have you on this forum.....

there are two genealogies of Jesus......... One is run through Abraham to Jesus and the other Luke's.

Keep in mind that Joseph's line had a blood curse upon them.  NO (MALE) child of that line could sit on the throne....Which would have also affected Jesus.

Joseph was the legal son of HELI....In other passages, we are told Heli is Mary's father...It was the custom where there were no males in the household, for the father to adopt the son-in-law and thus stabilizing the inheritance of the land, etc.  This is the reason why Joseph is listed ass the Son of Heli. (being the legal son of Heli).

Hope this helps

Blade


Thanks for the welcome.
I understand the curse.
I have several problems with what you wrote.
You say that Joseph was the "legal" son of Heli. There is no scriptural evidence to support the inference of this statement that I am aware of. If you know of this evidence in scripture please present it.
You also say "In other passages, we are told Heli is Mary's father". I am unaware of these passages. Would you please provide them?
You also seek to demonstrate that Mary had no male siblings. Would you provide the scriptural evidence for this please?
I am well aware that the statements you make are widely held to be true but I can't believe that God would leave us to make assumptions concerning something so important.
I mean, how does an assumption, however obvious it may seem, take the place of the word of God?

Psa 132:11  The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne.

Act 2:30  Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;



Bladerunner

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Re: The Genealogy of Jesus
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2019, 11:16:33 pm »


Hello, Geoff...... Glad to have you on this forum.....

there are two genealogies of Jesus......... One is run through Abraham to Jesus and the other Luke's.

Keep in mind that Joseph's line had a blood curse upon them.  NO (MALE) child of that line could sit on the throne....Which would have also affected Jesus.

Joseph was the legal son of HELI....In other passages, we are told Heli is Mary's father...It was the custom where there were no males in the household, for the father to adopt the son-in-law and thus stabilizing the inheritance of the land, etc.  This is the reason why Joseph is listed ass the Son of Heli. (being the legal son of Heli).

Hope this helps

Blade


Thanks for the welcome.
I understand the curse.
I have several problems with what you wrote.
You say that Joseph was the "legal" son of Heli. There is no scriptural evidence to support the inference of this statement that I am aware of. If you know of this evidence in scripture please present it.
You also say "In other passages, we are told Heli is Mary's father". I am unaware of these passages. Would you please provide them?
You also seek to demonstrate that Mary had no male siblings. Would you provide the scriptural evidence for this please?
I am well aware that the statements you make are widely held to be true but I can't believe that God would leave us to make assumptions concerning something so important.
I mean, how does an assumption, however obvious it may seem, take the place of the word of God?

Psa 132:11  The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne.

Act 2:30  Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

You say assumptions which is not true...All that needs to be done is a backwards search sometimes.

Mat 1:1-16,,gives us the Genealogy of Adam to David and the royal LEGAL line from DAVID to Jesus..

In Mat 1:16.
." And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ."

We see above that Joseph was indeed in the LEGAL Royal line of DAVID, He is the Husband of MARY, the mother of Mary.

Thus so far we have established. Joseph (of the royal line) as the Husband of Mary who was the mother of Jesus Christ.

In Luke 3:23-28, we find Luke's genealogy of Jesus from Abraham to David is the same as Matthews.   Yet, from David to Jesus, Luke does not follow the royal line but rather through the second surviving son of Bathsheba, Nathan.  This line starting at Nathan down through Heli, the father of Mary, the Mother of Jesus. The Genealogy in LUKE is backwards with HELI being first in verse


Luk 3:23..(KJV).."And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed ) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,"

We also see that Jesus , the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

As above, Joseph already has a father in Matthew....so Heli has to be an adoptive Father as is Joseph being the LEGAL father of Jesus.......

By deductive reasoning, we can see that Mary was the daughter of HELI even though the Bible does not directly say... It can be see as no other way.  FYI: God does this from time to time.....Hiding events, names, etc for the His Kings and priest (the Church (body of Christ)) to seek out and find.

Are you familiar with Jewish LAWs and customs....If I am going over ground you already know, disregard.

On the trip out of Egypt to the wilderness, i was asked of Moses about the father "Zelophehad" who only had daughters and had no sons to receive His inheritance of Land given to them by GOD. This rule permitted the daughters to receive the inheritance if and only if they married within their tribe and their father legally adopted the son-in-law. This is also seen the book of Ruth. I suggest reading this book very cloesly for it is all about Jewish Law on redemption of Land by a Goel. (Boaz).

Here are some passages that you can look upon in your leisure as to the laws and customs of those seen in the above paragraph.  Numbers 26:33; 27:1-11; 36:2-12; Joshua 17:3-6; 1 Chronicles 7:15


Because Jesus was born through the "SEED of the WOMAN" (Mary), her husband Joseph whose biological father was Jacob (Mat 1:16), adopted Jesus as was also the customs and laws given to the Jewish people by GOD.   

There is no assumptions as you can see. Maybe deductive reasoning leaving only one true answer. Many people will say this is not good enough...... It is to me.....because I simply believe every WORD, period, comma, etc to be the true WORD of GOD....SIMPLE

Oh, I almost forgot the Blood Curse on Jechonias (Mat 1:11-12).found in
Jer 22:30..
"Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah."

Thus preventing any male child from Jechonias on down from sitting on the throne of David.....This would have prevented Jesus from ruling from David THrone in the millennium, several prophecies would not be fulfilled. Yet, with the line from the Second Son of Bathsheba to Mary, the Throne was secured for Jesus......

Here we see the craftiness of GOD as when He placed the Blood curse on Jechonias, it surely made Lucifer jump for joy....He had won, and then he (satan)_ figured it out about Mary....

Make no bones about, Satan is trying to stop any one part of the plan of God from being fulfilled. So far (in the KJV), all prophecies have been 100% and many more to go.

Hope this helps. If not be specific and I will try to get you the answer' ;D

Blade









 




1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

Geoff

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Re: The Genealogy of Jesus
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2019, 07:21:39 am »


Hello, Geoff...... Glad to have you on this forum.....

there are two genealogies of Jesus......... One is run through Abraham to Jesus and the other Luke's.

Keep in mind that Joseph's line had a blood curse upon them.  NO (MALE) child of that line could sit on the throne....Which would have also affected Jesus.

Joseph was the legal son of HELI....In other passages, we are told Heli is Mary's father...It was the custom where there were no males in the household, for the father to adopt the son-in-law and thus stabilizing the inheritance of the land, etc.  This is the reason why Joseph is listed ass the Son of Heli. (being the legal son of Heli).

Hope this helps

Blade


Thanks for the welcome.
I understand the curse.
I have several problems with what you wrote.
You say that Joseph was the "legal" son of Heli. There is no scriptural evidence to support the inference of this statement that I am aware of. If you know of this evidence in scripture please present it.
You also say "In other passages, we are told Heli is Mary's father". I am unaware of these passages. Would you please provide them?
You also seek to demonstrate that Mary had no male siblings. Would you provide the scriptural evidence for this please?
I am well aware that the statements you make are widely held to be true but I can't believe that God would leave us to make assumptions concerning something so important.
I mean, how does an assumption, however obvious it may seem, take the place of the word of God?

Psa 132:11  The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne.

Act 2:30  Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

You say assumptions which is not true...All that needs to be done is a backwards search sometimes.

Mat 1:1-16,,gives us the Genealogy of Adam to David and the royal LEGAL line from DAVID to Jesus..

In Mat 1:16.
." And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ."

We see above that Joseph was indeed in the LEGAL Royal line of DAVID, He is the Husband of MARY, the mother of Mary.

Thus so far we have established. Joseph (of the royal line) as the Husband of Mary who was the mother of Jesus Christ.

In Luke 3:23-28, we find Luke's genealogy of Jesus from Abraham to David is the same as Matthews.   Yet, from David to Jesus, Luke does not follow the royal line but rather through the second surviving son of Bathsheba, Nathan.  This line starting at Nathan down through Heli, the father of Mary, the Mother of Jesus. The Genealogy in LUKE is backwards with HELI being first in verse


Luk 3:23..(KJV).."And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed ) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,"

We also see that Jesus , the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

As above, Joseph already has a father in Matthew....so Heli has to be an adoptive Father as is Joseph being the LEGAL father of Jesus.......
By deductive reasoning, we can see that Mary was the daughter of HELI even though the Bible does not directly say... It can be see as no other way.

See this is where I have problems with your summary. You say "so Heli has to be an adoptive Father".
Luke says: Luk 3:23  And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,
What was Luke meaning by this statement?
Jesus being the son of Joseph, as everyone supposed. That's what he meant. Why do we know this? Because every time it's mentioned by those who knew Jesus that's what they thought to be the case... that Jesus was the son of Joseph. All these statements below are given to us as the word of God.
Mat 13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

Luk 4:22 And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph's son?

Joh 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

Joh 6:42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?

Listen to his mother...

Luk 2:48 And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.
Luk 2:49  And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
Luk 2:50  And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.

Why didn't Mary and Joseph understand what he told them? I'll bet you think you know what he meant! Why didn't they?

Quote
FYI: God does this from time to time.....Hiding events, names, etc for the His Kings and priest (the Church (body of Christ)) to seek out and find.

Oh yes, things are hidden. I don't deny that, but the facts are hidden and must be found. We are not supposed to follow rabbit trails riddled with assumptions and conjecture.

Quote
Are you familiar with Jewish LAWs and customs....If I am going over ground you already know, disregard.

On the trip out of Egypt to the wilderness, i was asked of Moses about the father "Zelophehad" who only had daughters and had no sons to receive His inheritance of Land given to them by GOD. This rule permitted the daughters to receive the inheritance if and only if they married within their tribe and their father legally adopted the son-in-law. This is also seen the book of Ruth. I suggest reading this book very cloesly for it is all about Jewish Law on redemption of Land by a Goel. (Boaz).

Yes it so happens I am very aware of all this.
I would be quite accepting of this solution if there was any evidence that it was the case in this situation, but there is not. You are basing your belief on the assumption that it is the case.
There is a stronger case to argue that Mary was of the house of Levi but you won't find me using it because, once again, it is conjecture, without scriptural evidence.
Jer 33:17  For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;
Jer 33:18  Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.
Luk 1:5  There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
Luk 1:36  And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth....

Perhaps you are also aware that there are also snares laid to catch the unwary that would assume that which has not been spoken.
2Th 2:11  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12  That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Quote
Here are some passages that you can look upon in your leisure as to the laws and customs of those seen in the above paragraph.  Numbers 26:33; 27:1-11; 36:2-12; Joshua 17:3-6; 1 Chronicles 7:15[/b][/b][/color]

Thank you but I am very familiar with them all.

Quote
Because Jesus was born through the "SEED of the WOMAN" (Mary), her husband Joseph whose biological father was Jacob (Mat 1:16), adopted Jesus as was also the customs and laws given to the Jewish people by GOD.   

There is no assumptions as you can see. Maybe deductive reasoning leaving only one true answer. Many people will say this is not good enough...... It is to me.....because I simply believe every WORD, period, comma, etc to be the true WORD of GOD....SIMPLE

Yes many people would say it's not good enough to apply "deductive reasoning" in place of scriptural evidence. I am one of them.
Supply scriptural support for your assertions and I'll be happy to concur.
You will need scriptural evidence that Mary was a descendant of David and that she had no male siblings. Find that and I will accept what you say. If not, your statement about believing the word of God to be true is just hot air.

Quote
Make no bones about, Satan is trying to stop any one part of the plan of God from being fulfilled.

It makes his job easy when we put our trust in assumptions.


Bladerunner

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Re: The Genealogy of Jesus
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2020, 07:10:35 pm »


Hello, Geoff...... Glad to have you on this forum.....

there are two genealogies of Jesus......... One is run through Abraham to Jesus and the other Luke's.

Keep in mind that Joseph's line had a blood curse upon them.  NO (MALE) child of that line could sit on the throne....Which would have also affected Jesus.

Joseph was the legal son of HELI....In other passages, we are told Heli is Mary's father...It was the custom where there were no males in the household, for the father to adopt the son-in-law and thus stabilizing the inheritance of the land, etc.  This is the reason why Joseph is listed ass the Son of Heli. (being the legal son of Heli).

Hope this helps

Blade


Thanks for the welcome.
I understand the curse.
I have several problems with what you wrote.
You say that Joseph was the "legal" son of Heli. There is no scriptural evidence to support the inference of this statement that I am aware of. If you know of this evidence in scripture please present it.
You also say "In other passages, we are told Heli is Mary's father". I am unaware of these passages. Would you please provide them?
You also seek to demonstrate that Mary had no male siblings. Would you provide the scriptural evidence for this please?
I am well aware that the statements you make are widely held to be true but I can't believe that God would leave us to make assumptions concerning something so important.
I mean, how does an assumption, however obvious it may seem, take the place of the word of God?

Psa 132:11  The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne.

Act 2:30  Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

You say assumptions which is not true...All that needs to be done is a backwards search sometimes.

Mat 1:1-16,,gives us the Genealogy of Adam to David and the royal LEGAL line from DAVID to Jesus..

In Mat 1:16.
." And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ."

We see above that Joseph was indeed in the LEGAL Royal line of DAVID, He is the Husband of MARY, the mother of Mary.

Thus so far we have established. Joseph (of the royal line) as the Husband of Mary who was the mother of Jesus Christ.

In Luke 3:23-28, we find Luke's genealogy of Jesus from Abraham to David is the same as Matthews.   Yet, from David to Jesus, Luke does not follow the royal line but rather through the second surviving son of Bathsheba, Nathan.  This line starting at Nathan down through Heli, the father of Mary, the Mother of Jesus. The Genealogy in LUKE is backwards with HELI being first in verse


Luk 3:23..(KJV).."And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed ) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,"

We also see that Jesus , the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

As above, Joseph already has a father in Matthew....so Heli has to be an adoptive Father as is Joseph being the LEGAL father of Jesus.......
By deductive reasoning, we can see that Mary was the daughter of HELI even though the Bible does not directly say... It can be see as no other way.

See this is where I have problems with your summary. You say "so Heli has to be an adoptive Father".
Luke says: Luk 3:23  And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,
What was Luke meaning by this statement?
Jesus being the son of Joseph, as everyone supposed. That's what he meant. Why do we know this? Because every time it's mentioned by those who knew Jesus that's what they thought to be the case... that Jesus was the son of Joseph. All these statements below are given to us as the word of God.
Mat 13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

Luk 4:22 And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph's son?

Joh 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

Joh 6:42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?

Listen to his mother...

Luk 2:48 And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.
Luk 2:49  And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
Luk 2:50  And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.

Why didn't Mary and Joseph understand what he told them? I'll bet you think you know what he meant! Why didn't they?

Quote
FYI: God does this from time to time.....Hiding events, names, etc for the His Kings and priest (the Church (body of Christ)) to seek out and find.

Oh yes, things are hidden. I don't deny that, but the facts are hidden and must be found. We are not supposed to follow rabbit trails riddled with assumptions and conjecture.

Quote
Are you familiar with Jewish LAWs and customs....If I am going over ground you already know, disregard.

On the trip out of Egypt to the wilderness, i was asked of Moses about the father "Zelophehad" who only had daughters and had no sons to receive His inheritance of Land given to them by GOD. This rule permitted the daughters to receive the inheritance if and only if they married within their tribe and their father legally adopted the son-in-law. This is also seen the book of Ruth. I suggest reading this book very cloesly for it is all about Jewish Law on redemption of Land by a Goel. (Boaz).

Yes it so happens I am very aware of all this.
I would be quite accepting of this solution if there was any evidence that it was the case in this situation, but there is not. You are basing your belief on the assumption that it is the case.
There is a stronger case to argue that Mary was of the house of Levi but you won't find me using it because, once again, it is conjecture, without scriptural evidence.
Jer 33:17  For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;
Jer 33:18  Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.
Luk 1:5  There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
Luk 1:36  And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth....

Perhaps you are also aware that there are also snares laid to catch the unwary that would assume that which has not been spoken.
2Th 2:11  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12  That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Quote
Here are some passages that you can look upon in your leisure as to the laws and customs of those seen in the above paragraph.  Numbers 26:33; 27:1-11; 36:2-12; Joshua 17:3-6; 1 Chronicles 7:15[/b][/b][/color]

Thank you but I am very familiar with them all.

Quote
Because Jesus was born through the "SEED of the WOMAN" (Mary), her husband Joseph whose biological father was Jacob (Mat 1:16), adopted Jesus as was also the customs and laws given to the Jewish people by GOD.   

There is no assumptions as you can see. Maybe deductive reasoning leaving only one true answer. Many people will say this is not good enough...... It is to me.....because I simply believe every WORD, period, comma, etc to be the true WORD of GOD....SIMPLE

Yes many people would say it's not good enough to apply "deductive reasoning" in place of scriptural evidence. I am one of them.
Supply scriptural support for your assertions and I'll be happy to concur.
You will need scriptural evidence that Mary was a descendant of David and that she had no male siblings. Find that and I will accept what you say. If not, your statement about believing the word of God to be true is just hot air.

Quote
Make no bones about, Satan is trying to stop any one part of the plan of God from being fulfilled.

It makes his job easy when we put our trust in assumptions.

Geoff: I understand your train of thought and I am not assuming anything as to the Father of Mary.

Your words:"See this is where I have problems with your summary. You say "so Heli has to be an adoptive Father".
Luke says: Luk 3:23  And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,

What was Luke meaning by this statement?

Jesus being the son of Joseph, as everyone supposed. That's what he meant. Why do we know this? Because every time it's mentioned by those who knew Jesus that's what they thought to be the case... that Jesus was the son of Joseph. All these statements below are given to us as the word of God."


Luke did two things that one has to stretch the mind to see...

First He did not mention Mary but His Genealogy was of Jesus...He started with HELI and went backwards. Therefore Heli was Jesus' Grandfather..and through Matthew we know that Mary was the Mother of Jesus...

Luke the stated the "As was Supposed" (Joseph the son of Heli) which is a reference to the customs of the Hebrew people under the Law. 

You already know the rest and can put two and two together...There are many things in the Bible that are left out but can only be interpreted in ONE way.   

We know that Heli was Mary's father simply because Luke stated the genealogy of Jesus at the end. That word :END: tells us everything...and the "as was supposed" was put in the BIBLE on purpose....You too see the magnificence of the Bible, the WORD of GOD...

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

Geoff

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Re: The Genealogy of Jesus
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2020, 07:25:19 am »


Hello, Geoff...... Glad to have you on this forum.....

there are two genealogies of Jesus......... One is run through Abraham to Jesus and the other Luke's.

Keep in mind that Joseph's line had a blood curse upon them.  NO (MALE) child of that line could sit on the throne....Which would have also affected Jesus.

Joseph was the legal son of HELI....In other passages, we are told Heli is Mary's father...It was the custom where there were no males in the household, for the father to adopt the son-in-law and thus stabilizing the inheritance of the land, etc.  This is the reason why Joseph is listed ass the Son of Heli. (being the legal son of Heli).

Hope this helps

Blade


Thanks for the welcome.
I understand the curse.
I have several problems with what you wrote.
You say that Joseph was the "legal" son of Heli. There is no scriptural evidence to support the inference of this statement that I am aware of. If you know of this evidence in scripture please present it.
You also say "In other passages, we are told Heli is Mary's father". I am unaware of these passages. Would you please provide them?
You also seek to demonstrate that Mary had no male siblings. Would you provide the scriptural evidence for this please?
I am well aware that the statements you make are widely held to be true but I can't believe that God would leave us to make assumptions concerning something so important.
I mean, how does an assumption, however obvious it may seem, take the place of the word of God?

Psa 132:11  The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne.

Act 2:30  Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

You say assumptions which is not true...All that needs to be done is a backwards search sometimes.

Mat 1:1-16,,gives us the Genealogy of Adam to David and the royal LEGAL line from DAVID to Jesus..

In Mat 1:16.
." And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ."

We see above that Joseph was indeed in the LEGAL Royal line of DAVID, He is the Husband of MARY, the mother of Mary.

Thus so far we have established. Joseph (of the royal line) as the Husband of Mary who was the mother of Jesus Christ.

In Luke 3:23-28, we find Luke's genealogy of Jesus from Abraham to David is the same as Matthews.   Yet, from David to Jesus, Luke does not follow the royal line but rather through the second surviving son of Bathsheba, Nathan.  This line starting at Nathan down through Heli, the father of Mary, the Mother of Jesus. The Genealogy in LUKE is backwards with HELI being first in verse


Luk 3:23..(KJV).."And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed ) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,"

We also see that Jesus , the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

As above, Joseph already has a father in Matthew....so Heli has to be an adoptive Father as is Joseph being the LEGAL father of Jesus.......
By deductive reasoning, we can see that Mary was the daughter of HELI even though the Bible does not directly say... It can be see as no other way.

See this is where I have problems with your summary. You say "so Heli has to be an adoptive Father".
Luke says: Luk 3:23  And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,
What was Luke meaning by this statement?
Jesus being the son of Joseph, as everyone supposed. That's what he meant. Why do we know this? Because every time it's mentioned by those who knew Jesus that's what they thought to be the case... that Jesus was the son of Joseph. All these statements below are given to us as the word of God.
Mat 13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

Luk 4:22 And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph's son?

Joh 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

Joh 6:42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?

Listen to his mother...

Luk 2:48 And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.
Luk 2:49  And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
Luk 2:50  And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.

Why didn't Mary and Joseph understand what he told them? I'll bet you think you know what he meant! Why didn't they?

Quote
FYI: God does this from time to time.....Hiding events, names, etc for the His Kings and priest (the Church (body of Christ)) to seek out and find.

Oh yes, things are hidden. I don't deny that, but the facts are hidden and must be found. We are not supposed to follow rabbit trails riddled with assumptions and conjecture.

Quote
Are you familiar with Jewish LAWs and customs....If I am going over ground you already know, disregard.

On the trip out of Egypt to the wilderness, i was asked of Moses about the father "Zelophehad" who only had daughters and had no sons to receive His inheritance of Land given to them by GOD. This rule permitted the daughters to receive the inheritance if and only if they married within their tribe and their father legally adopted the son-in-law. This is also seen the book of Ruth. I suggest reading this book very cloesly for it is all about Jewish Law on redemption of Land by a Goel. (Boaz).

Yes it so happens I am very aware of all this.
I would be quite accepting of this solution if there was any evidence that it was the case in this situation, but there is not. You are basing your belief on the assumption that it is the case.
There is a stronger case to argue that Mary was of the house of Levi but you won't find me using it because, once again, it is conjecture, without scriptural evidence.
Jer 33:17  For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;
Jer 33:18  Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.
Luk 1:5  There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
Luk 1:36  And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth....

Perhaps you are also aware that there are also snares laid to catch the unwary that would assume that which has not been spoken.
2Th 2:11  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12  That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Quote
Here are some passages that you can look upon in your leisure as to the laws and customs of those seen in the above paragraph.  Numbers 26:33; 27:1-11; 36:2-12; Joshua 17:3-6; 1 Chronicles 7:15[/b][/b][/color]

Thank you but I am very familiar with them all.

Quote
Because Jesus was born through the "SEED of the WOMAN" (Mary), her husband Joseph whose biological father was Jacob (Mat 1:16), adopted Jesus as was also the customs and laws given to the Jewish people by GOD.   

There is no assumptions as you can see. Maybe deductive reasoning leaving only one true answer. Many people will say this is not good enough...... It is to me.....because I simply believe every WORD, period, comma, etc to be the true WORD of GOD....SIMPLE

Yes many people would say it's not good enough to apply "deductive reasoning" in place of scriptural evidence. I am one of them.
Supply scriptural support for your assertions and I'll be happy to concur.
You will need scriptural evidence that Mary was a descendant of David and that she had no male siblings. Find that and I will accept what you say. If not, your statement about believing the word of God to be true is just hot air.

Quote
Make no bones about, Satan is trying to stop any one part of the plan of God from being fulfilled.

It makes his job easy when we put our trust in assumptions.

Geoff: I understand your train of thought and I am not assuming anything as to the Father of Mary.

Your words:"See this is where I have problems with your summary. You say "so Heli has to be an adoptive Father".
Luke says: Luk 3:23  And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,

What was Luke meaning by this statement?

Jesus being the son of Joseph, as everyone supposed. That's what he meant. Why do we know this? Because every time it's mentioned by those who knew Jesus that's what they thought to be the case... that Jesus was the son of Joseph. All these statements below are given to us as the word of God."


Luke did two things that one has to stretch the mind to see...

First He did not mention Mary but His Genealogy was of Jesus...He started with HELI and went backwards. Therefore Heli was Jesus' Grandfather..and through Matthew we know that Mary was the Mother of Jesus...

Luke the stated the "As was Supposed" (Joseph the son of Heli) which is a reference to the customs of the Hebrew people under the Law. 

You already know the rest and can put two and two together...There are many things in the Bible that are left out but can only be interpreted in ONE way.   

We know that Heli was Mary's father simply because Luke stated the genealogy of Jesus at the end. That word :END: tells us everything...and the "as was supposed" was put in the BIBLE on purpose....You too see the magnificence of the Bible, the WORD of GOD...

Blade
Blade, I have been a student of the bible for long enough to know that it is unwise to assume anything. If I have to "stretch the mind" as you say then experience says I'm reading something into scripture that isn't there. It isn't my mind that I have to stretch, it's the mind of Christ by the spirit of Christ that is received of faith through the word of God breathed. Put simply, it means one's mind is conformed to the thinking that is in Jesus himself, by the spirit of his Father that gives life also to Christ.
David, a man of God, received a promise, that of his seed, of the fruit of his loins according to the flesh would God raise up Christ to sit upon his throne.
You have zero scriptural evidence of that connection between Jesus and Mary.  You assume it to be true because your theology gives you no other option.
In fact the most compelling argument is that Mary is of the tribe of Levi but that argument also suffers from the same problem; it lacks definitive scriptural support.
I'll admit your ability to see another option limited, since to you, Jesus is God.

You say "There are many things in the Bible that are left out but can only be interpreted in ONE way".
I'm yet to find one.
I'll admit I've been guilty of that same thought myself. Even the same error I accuse you of, I once argued the same, but I've since found that the truth doesn't need assumptions to define it; rather the mind of Christ.

Bladerunner

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Re: The Genealogy of Jesus
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2020, 02:03:29 pm »


Hello, Geoff...... Glad to have you on this forum.....

there are two genealogies of Jesus......... One is run through Abraham to Jesus and the other Luke's.

Keep in mind that Joseph's line had a blood curse upon them.  NO (MALE) child of that line could sit on the throne....Which would have also affected Jesus.

Joseph was the legal son of HELI....In other passages, we are told Heli is Mary's father...It was the custom where there were no males in the household, for the father to adopt the son-in-law and thus stabilizing the inheritance of the land, etc.  This is the reason why Joseph is listed ass the Son of Heli. (being the legal son of Heli).

Hope this helps

Blade


Thanks for the welcome.
I understand the curse.
I have several problems with what you wrote.
You say that Joseph was the "legal" son of Heli. There is no scriptural evidence to support the inference of this statement that I am aware of. If you know of this evidence in scripture please present it.
You also say "In other passages, we are told Heli is Mary's father". I am unaware of these passages. Would you please provide them?
You also seek to demonstrate that Mary had no male siblings. Would you provide the scriptural evidence for this please?
I am well aware that the statements you make are widely held to be true but I can't believe that God would leave us to make assumptions concerning something so important.
I mean, how does an assumption, however obvious it may seem, take the place of the word of God?

Psa 132:11  The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne.

Act 2:30  Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

You say assumptions which is not true...All that needs to be done is a backwards search sometimes.

Mat 1:1-16,,gives us the Genealogy of Adam to David and the royal LEGAL line from DAVID to Jesus..

In Mat 1:16.
." And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ."

We see above that Joseph was indeed in the LEGAL Royal line of DAVID, He is the Husband of MARY, the mother of Mary.

Thus so far we have established. Joseph (of the royal line) as the Husband of Mary who was the mother of Jesus Christ.

In Luke 3:23-28, we find Luke's genealogy of Jesus from Abraham to David is the same as Matthews.   Yet, from David to Jesus, Luke does not follow the royal line but rather through the second surviving son of Bathsheba, Nathan.  This line starting at Nathan down through Heli, the father of Mary, the Mother of Jesus. The Genealogy in LUKE is backwards with HELI being first in verse


Luk 3:23..(KJV).."And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed ) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,"

We also see that Jesus , the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

As above, Joseph already has a father in Matthew....so Heli has to be an adoptive Father as is Joseph being the LEGAL father of Jesus.......
By deductive reasoning, we can see that Mary was the daughter of HELI even though the Bible does not directly say... It can be see as no other way.

See this is where I have problems with your summary. You say "so Heli has to be an adoptive Father".
Luke says: Luk 3:23  And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,
What was Luke meaning by this statement?
Jesus being the son of Joseph, as everyone supposed. That's what he meant. Why do we know this? Because every time it's mentioned by those who knew Jesus that's what they thought to be the case... that Jesus was the son of Joseph. All these statements below are given to us as the word of God.
Mat 13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

Luk 4:22 And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph's son?

Joh 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

Joh 6:42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?

Listen to his mother...

Luk 2:48 And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.
Luk 2:49  And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
Luk 2:50  And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.

Why didn't Mary and Joseph understand what he told them? I'll bet you think you know what he meant! Why didn't they?

Quote
FYI: God does this from time to time.....Hiding events, names, etc for the His Kings and priest (the Church (body of Christ)) to seek out and find.

Oh yes, things are hidden. I don't deny that, but the facts are hidden and must be found. We are not supposed to follow rabbit trails riddled with assumptions and conjecture.

Quote
Are you familiar with Jewish LAWs and customs....If I am going over ground you already know, disregard.

On the trip out of Egypt to the wilderness, i was asked of Moses about the father "Zelophehad" who only had daughters and had no sons to receive His inheritance of Land given to them by GOD. This rule permitted the daughters to receive the inheritance if and only if they married within their tribe and their father legally adopted the son-in-law. This is also seen the book of Ruth. I suggest reading this book very cloesly for it is all about Jewish Law on redemption of Land by a Goel. (Boaz).

Yes it so happens I am very aware of all this.
I would be quite accepting of this solution if there was any evidence that it was the case in this situation, but there is not. You are basing your belief on the assumption that it is the case.
There is a stronger case to argue that Mary was of the house of Levi but you won't find me using it because, once again, it is conjecture, without scriptural evidence.
Jer 33:17  For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;
Jer 33:18  Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.
Luk 1:5  There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
Luk 1:36  And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth....

Perhaps you are also aware that there are also snares laid to catch the unwary that would assume that which has not been spoken.
2Th 2:11  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12  That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Quote
Here are some passages that you can look upon in your leisure as to the laws and customs of those seen in the above paragraph.  Numbers 26:33; 27:1-11; 36:2-12; Joshua 17:3-6; 1 Chronicles 7:15[/b][/b][/color]

Thank you but I am very familiar with them all.

Quote
Because Jesus was born through the "SEED of the WOMAN" (Mary), her husband Joseph whose biological father was Jacob (Mat 1:16), adopted Jesus as was also the customs and laws given to the Jewish people by GOD.   

There is no assumptions as you can see. Maybe deductive reasoning leaving only one true answer. Many people will say this is not good enough...... It is to me.....because I simply believe every WORD, period, comma, etc to be the true WORD of GOD....SIMPLE

Yes many people would say it's not good enough to apply "deductive reasoning" in place of scriptural evidence. I am one of them.
Supply scriptural support for your assertions and I'll be happy to concur.
You will need scriptural evidence that Mary was a descendant of David and that she had no male siblings. Find that and I will accept what you say. If not, your statement about believing the word of God to be true is just hot air.

Quote
Make no bones about, Satan is trying to stop any one part of the plan of God from being fulfilled.

It makes his job easy when we put our trust in assumptions.

Geoff: I understand your train of thought and I am not assuming anything as to the Father of Mary.

Your words:"See this is where I have problems with your summary. You say "so Heli has to be an adoptive Father".
Luke says: Luk 3:23  And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,

What was Luke meaning by this statement?

Jesus being the son of Joseph, as everyone supposed. That's what he meant. Why do we know this? Because every time it's mentioned by those who knew Jesus that's what they thought to be the case... that Jesus was the son of Joseph. All these statements below are given to us as the word of God."


Luke did two things that one has to stretch the mind to see...

First He did not mention Mary but His Genealogy was of Jesus...He started with HELI and went backwards. Therefore Heli was Jesus' Grandfather..and through Matthew we know that Mary was the Mother of Jesus...

Luke the stated the "As was Supposed" (Joseph the son of Heli) which is a reference to the customs of the Hebrew people under the Law. 

You already know the rest and can put two and two together...There are many things in the Bible that are left out but can only be interpreted in ONE way.   

We know that Heli was Mary's father simply because Luke stated the genealogy of Jesus at the end. That word :END: tells us everything...and the "as was supposed" was put in the BIBLE on purpose....You too see the magnificence of the Bible, the WORD of GOD...

Blade
Blade, I have been a student of the bible for long enough to know that it is unwise to assume anything. If I have to "stretch the mind" as you say then experience says I'm reading something into scripture that isn't there. It isn't my mind that I have to stretch, it's the mind of Christ by the spirit of Christ that is received of faith through the word of God breathed. Put simply, it means one's mind is conformed to the thinking that is in Jesus himself, by the spirit of his Father that gives life also to Christ.
David, a man of God, received a promise, that of his seed, of the fruit of his loins according to the flesh would God raise up Christ to sit upon his throne.
You have zero scriptural evidence of that connection between Jesus and Mary.  You assume it to be true because your theology gives you no other option.
In fact the most compelling argument is that Mary is of the tribe of Levi but that argument also suffers from the same problem; it lacks definitive scriptural support.
I'll admit your ability to see another option limited, since to you, Jesus is God.

You say "There are many things in the Bible that are left out but can only be interpreted in ONE way".
I'm yet to find one.
I'll admit I've been guilty of that same thought myself. Even the same error I accuse you of, I once argued the same, but I've since found that the truth doesn't need assumptions to define it; rather the mind of Christ.

Mat 1:6. ."And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ."

Blade
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 02:05:42 pm by Bladerunner »
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

 

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