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Author Topic: An Experimental Approach to a Long Accepted Belief: Comments  (Read 1396 times)

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Jon Wood

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Re: An Experimental Approach to a Long Accepted Belief
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2020, 11:13:23 am »
Jon, it doesn't change the way I think of you. I just want you to know that.
Thank you TJ, that means a lot to me :)
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patrick jane

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Re: An Experimental Approach to a Long Accepted Belief
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2020, 11:31:30 am »
Jon, it doesn't change the way I think of you. I just want you to know that.
Thank you TJ, that means a lot to me :)
Me either Jon, I love you just the same. I don't love Christians "more" than agnostics or anyone else. I'm just curious because I can't NOT believe.
Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


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Jon Wood

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Re: An Experimental Approach to a Long Accepted Belief
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2020, 11:35:47 am »
Jon, it doesn't change the way I think of you. I just want you to know that.
Thank you TJ, that means a lot to me :)
Me either Jon, I love you just the same. I don't love Christians "more" than agnostics or anyone else. I'm just curious because I can't NOT believe.
I know bro, plus you have to like me anyway, I’m a subscriber lol.
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Jon Wood

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Re: An Experimental Approach to a Long Accepted Belief
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2020, 11:46:11 am »


OK, Let me say this,,,, Jon scratch what I ask of you as I have found you already posted it in the another post.  Thanks.

I have found that one should take stock of one's position with GOD everyday and take nothing for granted....I think this is perseverance as commanded by GOD....

Someone once told me the Bible was authored in terms that a child could understand and it was also authored in terms that one could dive into and get as deep as they want to......The question is, how deep to you want to go...Whatever it is, I'll try to go there with you if that is ok. One suggestion while you read the WA article.

.Of course, there is always Atheism and being an Agnostic BUT most everyone falls within two disciplines as a believer....


These ar Amillenialism and Pre-Millennialism.   Dave unfortunately (in my opinion) is in the wrong camp of Amillenialism and every thing He gives you will lead to that theology.  I on the other hand can supply the Pre-Millennialism theology.  Be assured, One takes you away from GOD and the Other takes to GOD.   In the end it is your decision to be made.

Blade




Blade
I’ll definitely keep you in mind if I find anything in that deeper category I might want to explore in the future.

Lol, I actually wanted to look into the creeds because Dave mentions them so much. I wanted to know what was actually said in the ecumenical councils that decided on their general acceptance to see if there was any solid logical reasoning that could be reviewed today. So far his article produces nada in the valid reasoning department and is more commentary than anything. Though, it has provided names of attendees that I could read more in detail about when I want, so that’s cool.

I never really got much into the End times prophecy stuff. I might look into the “A” and “Premillennialism” thing at some point though
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Bladerunner

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Re: An Experimental Approach to a Long Accepted Belief
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2020, 03:57:39 pm »


OK, Let me say this,,,, Jon scratch what I ask of you as I have found you already posted it in the another post.  Thanks.

I have found that one should take stock of one's position with GOD everyday and take nothing for granted....I think this is perseverance as commanded by GOD....

Someone once told me the Bible was authored in terms that a child could understand and it was also authored in terms that one could dive into and get as deep as they want to......The question is, how deep to you want to go...Whatever it is, I'll try to go there with you if that is ok. One suggestion while you read the WA article.

.Of course, there is always Atheism and being an Agnostic BUT most everyone falls within two disciplines as a believer....


These ar Amillenialism and Pre-Millennialism.   Dave unfortunately (in my opinion) is in the wrong camp of Amillenialism and every thing He gives you will lead to that theology.  I on the other hand can supply the Pre-Millennialism theology.  Be assured, One takes you away from GOD and the Other takes to GOD.   In the end it is your decision to be made.

Blade




Blade
I’ll definitely keep you in mind if I find anything in that deeper category I might want to explore in the future.

Lol, I actually wanted to look into the creeds because Dave mentions them so much. I wanted to know what was actually said in the ecumenical councils that decided on their general acceptance to see if there was any solid logical reasoning that could be reviewed today. So far his article produces nada in the valid reasoning department and is more commentary than anything. Though, it has provided names of attendees that I could read more in detail about when I want, so that’s cool.

I never really got much into the End times prophecy stuff. I might look into the “A” and “Premillennialism” thing at some point though

Ok, will wait until you are ready just simply let me know,,.,,

OH, before I go, you click on forums and scroll down to the Holy Bible...I have placed some topics you might find interesting and I have tried to include documentation as well.......

Have a Blessed day my Friend.,...

Blade


1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

Ted T.

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Re: An Experimental Approach to a Long Accepted Belief
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2020, 03:55:22 pm »
Jesus had doubt in His faith, as we do.

Now, we’ve hit a point that I’m not sure that I understand how Jesus could be fully God in his moments of doubt.
I suspect that this moment of doubt you both reference is His cry from the cross: Eli, eli, ‘ă·zaḇ·tā·nî lā·māh; that is:   My God, my God, why have You forsaken me?

Christ on the cross was aware that the onlookers saw Him as defeated so He quoted the first line of Ps 22. No psalm had a number at that time so to reference a particular psalm one just quoted the first line. But the audience would know the whole psalm by heart and would recognize His message was that appearances were deceiving and He was in fact victorious as per the ending: 31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that HE HATH DONE IT.

Then there is also the verses about the garden incident: Matthew 26:39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will." which many think He meant to avoid the cross out of fear or whatever.

I find the suggestion that He feared for His life in the garden, that He was under so much pressure He thought maybe He was to die in the garden and not on the cross. Death in the garden was the cup He wished to have taken away (but not His will but the Father's be done) so He could get to the cross.

Thus I humbly reject His time of doubt as probable since it is not necessary to anything and is explained quite easily as His faith in the plan.

Wheat are NOT reborn / regenerate tares !!!

Matt 13:36-43  ...Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

38 the field is the world
good seed are of the kingdom sown by the Son of man
tares are of the wicked one 39 sown by the devil


Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Ted T.

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Re: An Experimental Approach to a Long Accepted Belief
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2020, 06:23:44 pm »
Somebody, (me in this case) that does not believe in the deity of Jesus and wants to approach the subject like I started by accepting the premise that He is God...

 Please consider that the nature of GOD is love. IF GOD is not Triune, ie a unified singularity but only a singularity, who did HE love before creation? GOD was loving but there is no one to love. Can love exist without an object of that affection?? If GOD is not a Trinity then I presume we must believe love can exist with no object for that love but I find that to be very hard to accept, much harder than accepting that the verses that CAN BE interpreted as referring to a divine Trinity are telling that truth. 

Since the DNA of GOD was mentioned, I will say that the DNA of GOD is HIS Divine attributes, omniscience, omnipresence, omnipotence etc.  Any one exhibiting these attributes is Divine just as anyone exhibiting dog dna is a dog not a cat.

But the perfection of the Divine Attributes is such that, if there are three people with these divine attributes, they do not make three GODs but form a unity, an echad, of divinity such that ONE GOD of three Divine persons is accurate while three god's is not.

Three omnipotent people do not make three omnipotents but ONE omnipotent due to the nature of the unifying perfection of omnipotence.

Wheat are NOT reborn / regenerate tares !!!

Matt 13:36-43  ...Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

38 the field is the world
good seed are of the kingdom sown by the Son of man
tares are of the wicked one 39 sown by the devil


Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
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Jon Wood

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Re: An Experimental Approach to a Long Accepted Belief
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2020, 11:44:04 pm »

I suspect that this moment of doubt you both reference is His cry from the cross: Eli, eli, ‘ă·zaḇ·tā·nî lā·māh; that is:   My God, my God, why have You forsaken me?

Christ on the cross was aware that the onlookers saw Him as defeated so He quoted the first line of Ps 22. No psalm had a number at that time so to reference a particular psalm one just quoted the first line. But the audience would know the whole psalm by heart and would recognize His message was that appearances were deceiving and He was in fact victorious as per the ending: 31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that HE HATH DONE IT.

Then there is also the verses about the garden incident: Matthew 26:39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will." which many think He meant to avoid the cross out of fear or whatever.

I find the suggestion that He feared for His life in the garden, that He was under so much pressure He thought maybe He was to die in the garden and not on the cross. Death in the garden was the cup He wished to have taken away (but not His will but the Father's be done) so He could get to the cross.

Thus I humbly reject His time of doubt as probable since it is not necessary to anything and is explained quite easily as His faith in the plan.
I presume that the “Why have you forsaken me?” Passage was the intended reference because it seems more often referenced and came to my mind first. I could see your explanation as being a pretty logical one in that aspect.

Did you intend to say something akin to “I find the suggestion (likely to be) that He feared for His life in the garden”? I believe this to be your intention, but am uncertain.

I find it difficult to conceive that Jesus could be fully aware of His deity and yet have any true concern that anything could go any way other than exactly according to plan. Though, if I recall, you have a fairly unique view on several things that I had not heard of before, so I’d be interested in any suggestions to that affect.

Thanks for entering the conversation, this has already gotten more involved participation than I expected it to here

patrick jane

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Re: An Experimental Approach to a Long Accepted Belief
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2020, 11:48:36 pm »
For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

39 And he came out, and went, as he was wont, to the mount of Olives; and his disciples also followed him.

40 And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into temptation.

41 And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,

42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.

44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

45 And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow,

46 And said unto them, Why sleep ye? rise and pray, lest ye enter into temptation.
Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


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Jon Wood

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Re: An Experimental Approach to a Long Accepted Belief
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2020, 12:39:45 am »
Thanks Ted, I’m working on a response to your second post and reviewing everything else so far. I hope to be back soon with some thoughts.

I’d like to remind us (myself included) that the focal point is not directly deity or Jesus being God, the focus is primarily on Jesus being human. It is difficult to make a topic like this stay in that direction, but it’s working better than I thought it would already, so thanks for an interesting discussion so far everyone. I’m looking at this from angles I probably wouldn’t have thought about on my own
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Bladerunner

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Re: An Experimental Approach to a Long Accepted Belief
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2020, 05:24:45 pm »
Thanks Ted, I’m working on a response to your second post and reviewing everything else so far. I hope to be back soon with some thoughts.

I’d like to remind us (myself included) that the focal point is not directly deity or Jesus being God, the focus is primarily on Jesus being human. It is difficult to make a topic like this stay in that direction, but it’s working better than I thought it would already, so thanks for an interesting discussion so far everyone. I’m looking at this from angles I probably wouldn’t have thought about on my own

John 1:14.."And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

This is how JOHN and all the disciples viewed Jesus Christ..........


Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

patrick jane

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Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


Copyright Disclaimer: All audio and music belongs to the owner/creator. This is a non-profit. Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.

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Re: An Experimental Approach to a Long Accepted Belief
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2020, 07:28:10 pm »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH8xHJXee-o

Yes, God is everywhere yet, If a young boy who had godly powers,  would they not have surfaced  long before they did (after the resurrection).

I am content with the thought that Jesus had somehow abdicated His Godly powers until the Resurrection. With the Triune Body of God, The Holy Spirit and it 7 spirits and then Jesus Christ as: fully Man and Fully GOD we really cannot know how GOD pulled it off...The fact is, HE DID and I am good with that.

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

 

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