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Author Topic: An Experimental Approach to a Long Accepted Belief: Comments  (Read 1795 times)

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Bladerunner

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Thanks Ted, Iím working on a response to your second post and reviewing everything else so far. I hope to be back soon with some thoughts.

Iíd like to remind us (myself included) that the focal point is not directly deity or Jesus being God, the focus is primarily on Jesus being human. It is difficult to make a topic like this stay in that direction, but itís working better than I thought it would already, so thanks for an interesting discussion so far everyone. Iím looking at this from angles I probably wouldnít have thought about on my own

Jon...It is difficult to access if you found the answers you are/were looking for? With the "the focus is primarily on Jesus being human.", what part of His life are you looking for....Was you looking to the beating he took prior to the cross....Why HE did it... His young Life.....Etc....You have any direction I might be able to shed some light on a particular subject?

Stay Safe my friend

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

Mr E

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Hello PJ, John, Bladerunner and others....

Maybe someone can explain something to me about how this board is functioning? 

This appears to be Jon Wood's thread as OP, but somehow it shows Bladerunner as the thread starter?  Does this mean it was copied and pasted from elsewhere and brought here by Bladerunner?  It's really confusing.  If that's the case, it might look like a person has posted here when they didn't really, but it was migrated? 

It seems like almost everyone has moderator status-- maybe too many cooks in the kitchen making changes.  There are posts in at least one of Firestarter;s threads that are attributed to me, that are not mine.  Maybe this is another symptom...


Concerning the topic of this thread-- I could offer a perspective, but I'm not certain that this is still an active discussion.

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patrick jane

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Hello PJ, John, Bladerunner and others....

Maybe someone can explain something to me about how this board is functioning? 

This appears to be Jon Wood's thread as OP, but somehow it shows Bladerunner as the thread starter?  Does this mean it was copied and pasted from elsewhere and brought here by Bladerunner?  It's really confusing.  If that's the case, it might look like a person has posted here when they didn't really, but it was migrated? 

It seems like almost everyone has moderator status-- maybe too many cooks in the kitchen making changes.  There are posts in at least one of Firestarter;s threads that are attributed to me, that are not mine.  Maybe this is another symptom...


Concerning the topic of this thread-- I could offer a perspective, but I'm not certain that this is still an active discussion.
Hey pal, don't rock the boat. Just kiddin' hahaha yes Blade separated the OP Topics top stand alone and a different thread for comments. Those threads at the top of Blade's forum are locked for no replies. To comment look for the link in the Main thread to the Comment thread. I like the idea.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2020, 10:41:24 pm by patrick jane »
Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


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Bladerunner

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Hello PJ, John, Bladerunner and others....

Maybe someone can explain something to me about how this board is functioning? 

This appears to be Jon Wood's thread as OP, but somehow it shows Bladerunner as the thread starter?  Does this mean it was copied and pasted from elsewhere and brought here by Bladerunner?  It's really confusing.  If that's the case, it might look like a person has posted here when they didn't really, but it was migrated? 

It seems like almost everyone has moderator status-- maybe too many cooks in the kitchen making changes.  There are posts in at least one of Firestarter;s threads that are attributed to me, that are not mine.  Maybe this is another symptom...


Concerning the topic of this thread-- I could offer a perspective, but I'm not certain that this is still an active discussion.
Hey pa;, don't rock the boat. Just kiddin' hahaha yes Blade separated the OP Topics top stand alone and a different thread for comments. Those threads at the top of Blade's forum are locked for no replies. To comment look for the link in the Main thread to the Comment thread. I like the idea.

Mr.E....The first post is attributed to JON  right above the post itself. Yes This is a copy of the original post by JON. The original post is in the Comments Thread. There is even a link directly to all comments including the 1st post .   No post are lost

The Idea behind this Mr.E??? is the 1st post is most always hidden at the end of the page numbers. By doing this, The reader does not have to hunt for the Threads main post. It is posted in the Yellow section. No other comments are allowed here. However there is a thread by the same name
"XXXXXXX: Comments"

Hope this helps..
Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
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Bladerunner

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Hello PJ, John, Bladerunner and others....

Maybe someone can explain something to me about how this board is functioning? 

This appears to be Jon Wood's thread as OP, but somehow it shows Bladerunner as the thread starter?  Does this mean it was copied and pasted from elsewhere and brought here by Bladerunner?  It's really confusing.  If that's the case, it might look like a person has posted here when they didn't really, but it was migrated? 

It seems like almost everyone has moderator status-- maybe too many cooks in the kitchen making changes.  There are posts in at least one of Firestarter;s threads that are attributed to me, that are not mine.  Maybe this is another symptom...


Concerning the topic of this thread-- I could offer a perspective, but I'm not certain that this is still an active discussion.

One more thing Mr. E.....It is apparent that all your post are original to you. However, should you ever use someone elses information as a source or as a headliner, you will have to learn how to give credit where credit is due. I suggest you practice reading this way as well.

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
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Jon Wood

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Hello PJ, John, Bladerunner and others....

Maybe someone can explain something to me about how this board is functioning? 

This appears to be Jon Wood's thread as OP, but somehow it shows Bladerunner as the thread starter?  Does this mean it was copied and pasted from elsewhere and brought here by Bladerunner?  It's really confusing.  If that's the case, it might look like a person has posted here when they didn't really, but it was migrated? 

It seems like almost everyone has moderator status-- maybe too many cooks in the kitchen making changes.  There are posts in at least one of Firestarter;s threads that are attributed to me, that are not mine.  Maybe this is another symptom...


Concerning the topic of this thread-- I could offer a perspective, but I'm not certain that this is still an active discussion.

Hi Mr. E, I think PJ and Blade explained the format fairly well. As far as this being an active thread or not, I would say it is if anyone has interest. Iím the kind of person that starts threads and comments early in its life, then I find something else that interests me, I eventually come back to see if anything intriguing has happened (when I remember to).
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Mr E

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Now, weíve hit a point that Iím not sure that I understand how Jesus could be fully God in his moments of doubt. Things like that are what this whole idea is about really.

Since you hold to Him being both fully God and Fully man, please explain what you can from both perspectives. Itís something Iíve never understood.

It's a theological connundrum.  A pickle.

The reason it doesn't seem to make sense is because it doesn't make sense.  It's hard to believe because it's unbelievable.  Often, folks who want to support this idea do so because they feel some kind of obligation to their beliefs which are based on what they've chosen to hold on to from among all of the things that they've been taught.  The fully God, and fully man teaching is accepted dogma, so therefore to be accepted by these groups as one under the banner of Christian you must accept this basic teaching... -or, you are out of the Club, or otherwise beaten with the club.

The premise is unsupportable, so to believe this teaching you must in fact suspend your disbelief.  Do you get that?  In order to believe it, you have to not disbelieve it. You have to accept something that is wholly unacceptable on it's face, hold your nose and agree that it doesn't smell... off.  If you can do this, then you can be considered part of the conventional wisdom-- the Christian collective... group think certified.

But let's examine it and I'll demonstrate why the two parts of this puzzle are irreconcilable.  To be fully man and fully God at the same time, all the time.  That's the nut we are trying to crack, right?

Let's look at the man/God equation mathematically. 

Man---------------------God           God----------------------Man
100%-------------------0%            100%--------------------0%

There can be no parts man in the 'Jesus was fully God' camp.  So the supporters hedge and they do so unapologetically.  They surmise that Jesus must have had everything of God's power and knowledge (being fully God) and simply ignored it at times, that he was perfect and sinless- and submitted himself to John's baptism of repentance only as an example for others to follow (since he had nothing to repent for) as just a couple examples.  They call it a mystery-- that which they can't explain and with a wave of the hand they just 'declare' that he was both somehow because they also say in agreement with the scriptures that he was tempted in every way common to man and that he understands our weaknesses.  It speaks of these things in Hebrews 4 and 5 and it's clear that he understand weakness and temptation because he was subject to everything anyone else faces-- this is what makes his example relevant and powerful.  These teachers will be quick to point out Heb 4:4 highlighting the without sin part...

For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

Yet we know that the reason the high priest can appear before the throne of God is only because he has first repented and offered the gifts and sacrifice.

Heb 5: 1-2

For every high priest taken from among men is appointed on behalf of men in things pertaining to God, in order to offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins; he can deal gently with the ignorant and misguided, since he himself also is beset with weakness; and because of it he is obligated to offer sacrifices for sins, as for the people, so also for himself.

It says every high priest-- it doesn't say every high priest but Jesus.  And one day you and I and every man who claims the blood of sacrifice will also stand before this same throne-- sinless.  Not because we never sinned, or never gave in to temptation, but because this same high priest-- this man/Lamb/Jesus became our sacrifice and this Son of God- arose and ascended into heaven where he became our high priest.  Was Jesus the high priest while he walked on this earth?  No- there was another, but that one was appointed by men and Jesus was annointed and made high priest not in the order of men, but by God who declared him  A PRIEST FOREVER ACCORDING TO THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK.

How do I reconcile it?  I don't.  There is no reconciliation or fudging of numbers.  God is God and not a man.  Jesus was a man and men are not God.

God -the Father-  sent his Son--- the Word of God (which springs forth from the Father) via the Holy Spirit (a messenger) to descend upon and fill the man Jesus who-- so annointed became the Christ-- the Messiah (annointed one) -- who is always a man and nothing more than a man apart from that Spirit which dwells within.

So where did Jesus get his knowledge?  The same way all prophets through all of time got everything they were given.  Over and over you can read of it both in the stories of the prophets and patriarchs.  You'll read that the Word of the Lord, or the Angel of the Lord came to....

So why is this different?  Because some folks insist it must be... to align with their teachings and what they have been taught.

Anyways-- outside the mainstream on this, but that's how you avoid the Falls.
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patrick jane

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Yes, Mr E however, Jesus had divine power; God's power in the earth as a man, the Great I Am.
Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


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Mr E

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I've pointed out elsewhere that all prophets upon whom the Word of God descends are used as instruments of God in whatever manner He chooses.  If you are speaking about miracles-- was Jesus the only one to have ever performed a miracle?  So if God permitted Jesus to do miracles, like God had permitted others in the past, then there is no 'but Jesus' model...

Elijah and Elisha raised the dead.
Moses split the sea and prophesied ten plagues
Samson had supernatural strength and so on....

Jericho was brought down to rubble with Joshua's command to blow the trumpets.
Enoch was taken up, so too Elijah and a man came to life again when his body was thrown in the grave and touched his bones... and where are those bones of Moses again?  Ezekiel cried.... them dry bones, now hear the Word of the Lord!

Can you love the prophets without thinking them to be God?  Everyone does.  Can you love Jesus without thinking him to be God?  I do.

Can you love God without conforming Him to your idea of Him?  You must.

Bladerunner

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I've pointed out elsewhere that all prophets upon whom the Word of God descends are used as instruments of God in whatever manner He chooses.  If you are speaking about miracles-- was Jesus the only one to have ever performed a miracle?  So if God permitted Jesus to do miracles, like God had permitted others in the past, then there is no 'but Jesus' model...

Elijah and Elisha raised the dead.
Moses split the sea and prophesied ten plagues
Samson had supernatural strength and so on....

Jericho was brought down to rubble with Joshua's command to blow the trumpets.
Enoch was taken up, so too Elijah and a man came to life again when his body was thrown in the grave and touched his bones... and where are those bones of Moses again?  Ezekiel cried.... them dry bones, now hear the Word of the Lord!

Can you love the prophets without thinking them to be God?  Everyone does.  Can you love Jesus without thinking him to be God?  I do.

Can you love God without conforming Him to your idea of Him?  You must.

You said:"Jericho was brought down to rubble with Joshua's command to blow the trumpets."

That was Jesus that made that command!

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

Mr E

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Ahhhh.... so you recognize a pattern?

Joshua 6


Bladerunner

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Ahhhh.... so you recognize a pattern?

Joshua 6

No, Joshua 5:13-15

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

Mr E

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Joshua lifted up his eyes and behold!  A man was standing opposite him with a sword drawn....

Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands; and in the middle of the lampstands I saw one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the feet, and girded across His chest with a golden sash. His head and His hair were white like white wool, like snow; and His eyes were like a flame of fire. His feet were like burnished bronze, when it has been made to glow in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters. In His right hand He held seven stars, and out of His mouth came a sharp two-edged sword; and His face was like the sun shining in its strength.

It isn't Jesus, but Elohim... a son of God.  One came to Joshua son of Nun and one came to Yeshua son of Joseph (so it was said)

Then all that follows in both records is of six cycles, then a final seventh when it all comes crashing down.

 

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