patrick jane forums

Are you the guy on TF who said the resurrection is actually a collection of resurrections? That might explain a lot. I might actually come to believe that. I wish I knew how to make these threads include the post I am replying to. I have to keep switching back and forth to see all you said. It looks to me from reading Rev 20:4 that all those groups of people went through Daniel's 70th week. Was that your point? I'll try to figure out how to quote your post in my reply so I can give you a better answer.

Are you the guy on TF who said the resurrection is actually a collection of resurrections? That might explain a lot. I might actually come to believe that. I wish I knew how to make these threads include the post I am replying to. I have to keep switching back and forth to see all you said. It looks to me from reading Rev 20:4 that all those groups of people went through Daniel's 70th week. Was that your point? I'll try to figure out how to quote your post in my reply so I can give you a better answer.

Quote from: Bladerunner on August 09, 2018, 08:38:10 pm

These are the two main arguments of Escathology today.

The amellinnialism argument is usually associated with replacement theology which states that Israel forfeited their rights to the covenants given to them by GOD (Jehovah) in ancient times. Their covenants were therefore transferred to the Church (Body of Christ). Because of this, there will be no Millennial as we are in it and Jesus is ruling spiritually today.

Premillennialism argues that we are living during the Age of the Church and the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ is future to us. There are several disciplines associated with this argument.  They are Pre-Rapture, Mid Rapture or Post Rapture.  Post-Rapture had its day in the mid 1900's but disappeared when the things did not get any better as was prophesied. It is coming back with a vengeance.

Through literal, historical and grammatical interpretations of the Bible (KJV) pre-mil, pre-trib is the only game in town.

Blade

One of my most influential verses in posture are the following...

Acts 1:6-12

But zoom in on 9-11 then focus on Verse 12 and carry locational Revelation from verse 12 into Zechariah 14:1-4. Now pair Zechariah 14:4’s locational revelation and circumstances with Acts 1:12, then consider the Apostles Question to Christ in Acts 1:6-8, followed by Chriat’s Answer.

If you take it literally and catch it, it should be a Holy moly moment.

All blessings in Jesus Christ to you.

That’s my opinion, of course.  I am aware it can be read many different ways, but see if you can see it.

Quote from: joechan82 on August 12, 2018, 10:05:51 pm

Are you the guy on TF who said the resurrection is actually a collection of resurrections? That might explain a lot. I might actually come to believe that. I wish I knew how to make these threads include the post I am replying to. I have to keep switching back and forth to see all you said. It looks to me from reading Rev 20:4 that all those groups of people went through Daniel's 70th week. Was that your point? I'll try to figure out how to quote your post in my reply so I can give you a better answer.

The Church does not go through Daniel's 70th week. The 24 Elders represent them in Chapter 4 and throughout the 70th week.

 All the others that were alive at its beginning lost their heads if they believed in Jesus Christ. This includes the 144,000 .

The OT saints were dead thus not alive during daniel's 70th week but were resurrected after the the 70th week and before the millennium.

The beginning of the Millennium was the end of the 1st resurrection!

The 2nd resurrection is nothing more that for those that are unbelievers and must face the White Throne Judgement.

Blade

Quote from: Bladerunner on August 13, 2018, 01:05:44 am

Quote from: joechan82 on August 12, 2018, 10:05:51 pm

Are you the guy on TF who said the resurrection is actually a collection of resurrections? That might explain a lot. I might actually come to believe that. I wish I knew how to make these threads include the post I am replying to. I have to keep switching back and forth to see all you said. It looks to me from reading Rev 20:4 that all those groups of people went through Daniel's 70th week. Was that your point? I'll try to figure out how to quote your post in my reply so I can give you a better answer.

The Church does not go through Daniel's 70th week. The 24 Elders represent them in Chapter 4 and throughout the 70th week.

 All the others that were alive at its beginning lost their heads if they believed in Jesus Christ. This includes the 144,000 .

The OT saints were dead thus not alive during daniel's 70th week but were resurrected after the the 70th week and before the millennium.

The beginning of the Millennium was the end of the 1st resurrection!

The 2nd resurrection is nothing more that for those that are unbelievers and must face the White Throne Judgement.

Blade

Here is the point at which we diverge. I say that the church will go through Daniel's 70th week until wrath begins at the 7th trumpet. Now we will begin to argue things such as when does wrath begin, and why Daniel's 70th week includes both the church and national Israel. I can see this discussion as if it happened yesterday. I compare Matt 24:29-31 to 1Thess 4:13-8 and see the exact same event in both passages. Some may say, wait, one is for the Jews and the other is for the Church, because dispensationalism says it must be two different events. I say that dispensationalism is wrong on this point. I think they are wrong on the definition of the church too. I think the church started with Christ and the disciples during His earthly ministry, not at Pentecoste. The church (both the Jewish and Gentile elements) were grafted into the plan already in operation. The Jewish believing remnant was joined by the Samaratins, then the Gentiles. We are not separate from them. The nation of Israel left God, He did not leave them.
Rom 11:1  I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:5  Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Rom 11:7  What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Rom 11:11  I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
Rom 11:12  Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

You said this, "The beginning of the Millennium was the end of the 1st resurrection!"

I completely agree with this, but it fits with pretribulation or pre-wrath. If the church is gone before the great tribulation, where in the world to all the saved people come from that are beheaded etc?

Quote from: joechan82 on August 13, 2018, 06:55:20 pm

Quote from: Sasha on August 12, 2018, 11:03:36 am

Quote from: Bladerunner on August 09, 2018, 08:38:10 pm

These are the two main arguments of Escathology today.

The amellinnialism argument is usually associated with replacement theology which states that Israel forfeited their rights to the covenants given to them by GOD (Jehovah) in ancient times. Their covenants were therefore transferred to the Church (Body of Christ). Because of this, there will be no Millennial as we are in it and Jesus is ruling spiritually today.

Premillennialism argues that we are living during the Age of the Church and the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ is future to us. There are several disciplines associated with this argument.  They are Pre-Rapture, Mid Rapture or Post Rapture.  Post-Rapture had its day in the mid 1900's but disappeared when the things did not get any better as was prophesied. It is coming back with a vengeance.

Through literal, historical and grammatical interpretations of the Bible (KJV) pre-mil, pre-trib is the only game in town.

Blade

One of my most influential verses in posture are the following...

Acts 1:6-12

But zoom in on 9-11 then focus on Verse 12 and carry locational Revelation from verse 12 into Zechariah 14:1-4. Now pair Zechariah 14:4’s locational revelation and circumstances with Acts 1:12, then consider the Apostles Question to Christ in Acts 1:6-8, followed by Chriat’s Answer.

If you take it literally and catch it, it should be a Holy moly moment.

All blessings in Jesus Christ to you.

That’s my opinion, of course.  I am aware it can be read many different ways, but see if you can see it.

I just did as you suggested. Olivet is one of those special places. Do you think the disciples went there to wait for Christ's return in Acts 1:12. Or maybe to pray for divine guidance before going into all the world? Maybe they went there often to wait. I have friends who have gone to Israel and told me that it was life changing to walk where He walked.

How could they not have.  The Son ascended from there.  Now that you say it, I wish I could go there!

Good point Joe!

Here is the point at which we diverge. I say that the church will go through Daniel's 70th week until wrath begins at the 7th trumpet. Now we will begin to argue things such as when does wrath begin, and why Daniel's 70th week includes both the church and national Israel. I can see this discussion as if it happened yesterday. I compare Matt 24:29-31 to 1Thess 4:13-8 and see the exact same event in both passages. Some may say, wait, one is for the Jews and the other is for the Church, because dispensationalism says it must be two different events. I say that dispensationalism is wrong on this point. I think they are wrong on the definition of the church too. I think the church started with Christ and the disciples during His earthly ministry, not at Pentecoste. The church (both the Jewish and Gentile elements) were grafted into the plan already in operation. The Jewish believing remnant was joined by the Samaratins, then the Gentiles. We are not separate from them. The nation of Israel left God, He did not leave them.
Rom 11:1  I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:5  Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Rom 11:7  What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Rom 11:11  I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
Rom 11:12  Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fullness?

You said this, "The beginning of the Millennium was the end of the 1st resurrection!"

I completely agree with this, but it fits with pre-tribulation or pre-wrath. If the church is gone before the great tribulation, where in the world to all the saved people come from that are beheaded etc?