patrick jane forums

Quote from: Sasha on August 16, 2018, 10:26:40 pm

Quote from: Bladerunner on August 16, 2018, 09:22:26 pm

Quote from: joechan82 on August 16, 2018, 10:54:31 am

* God has not left HIS people behind. This shown throughout prophecy in the OT and NT. The Covenants are and will be in effect. especially GEn 12:3.   oh, and GOD is in control, HE left them.

*If you rightly divide the Bible, everything will make sense and be easier to read ACTs 2:1 was the beginning of the CHurch because that was the day the Holy Spirit came into the Church.

*These are people that are left behind. You probably know some that believe in Jesus but do not believe in everythin He has said.
 the 144,000 will evangelize around the world and bring in multitudes . They themselves will be martyred. The two Witnesses will bring in many believers after they are rapture to heaven. These will also Die in Christ.  and the OT saints (their souls are in Heaven already) will be resurrected from their graves unto life again. They too are redeemed.

Mat 24:29-31 is the 2nd coming of Jesus WITH his elect.(Notice that all peoples of the earth see him.).  1 Thes 4:13-18 is the Rapture and only the Church those who are alive and those who have died in him with see him. A very small crowd.  Notice He does not come to  earth but to the clouds and He Comes FOR his ELECT.    These are NOT the same.

I am sorry JOE, There was just no easy way to say it.

Blade


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Blade,
Don't worry about trying to say things the easy way. I appreciate you being direct.
As to the idea of Matt:24 and 1Thes being similar, but not the same, I look to Rev 1:4-8. Notice the clouds here too. He comes in the clouds AND every eye shall see Him.
Rev 1:4  John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; 5  And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6  And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 7  Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 8  I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

John wrote to the seven churches in Asia, which I believe were literal, historical churches, just like churches are today. Look what John tells them to look for. It is a coming of Christ with clouds where every eye shall see him.  Please keep in mind that my main thrust in this discussion is not to convince you of my position, but for you to see that I can hold to my beliefs and still be a Bible believer. I consider you to be a Bible believer.

Yes, Joe we both believe in Jesus Christ. To those that cannot read or have access to HIS WORD, this may be enough. However, we ()I think) are in a little different situation. One of us is wrong and the consequences will not be good.

Hope you have a Blessed evening

 
Blade

A friendly reminder that eschatology doesn’t save.  I’ve ridden on some drastic campaigns in my day, but to be sincere, I always sit back and think, “hey, Jesus has got His bride and bodies backs.”

Disagreement on finer points of musterion don’t equal spiritual consequences.  Some people will have to take some butthurt-be-gone and say; “Oh, so that’s what that meant, Jesus.”

I always remind myself that no one expected God to die for them, back in the day.  That said, it’s going to be a real nail biter, however it all plays out and none of us really know what aspects of our understanding will serve up humble pie to us.

My two cents.

All Love in Jesus Christ to you, Blade.

- Sasha

Thank you Sasha...If we were talking about the MAD dispensationalist, I would agree. I cannot see any difference in Acts 2 where 3000+ Jewsh people became part of the "body of Christ" or Acts 10 where the Gentiles began becoming part of the Body of Christ. It is not like Gentiles were not saved during the 'Age of the Law' or in the early days of ACTs 2 forward.

Did the Bible tells us that for the first time, the gentiles were saved in Acts 10? If it did, I missed it.

However, this disagreement will not affect Salvation. We all (here) are Brothers in Christ.

However, Post-rapture and Amellinnialism go hand in hand. Both remove major parts of the OT and NEW Testament (Gen 12 through Acts 2 then Rev 1 through REV 17.) in most cases 3/4 of the Bible is thrown out. Unlike the above where there is a simple disagreement on when the "Body of Christ" actually started, the Post and Amillennialism theologies seem to be disregarding the WORD of GOD. In both cases, there can be no Millennium. There is no marriage supper, there is no Bema Judgment seat and there is no sheep and goat judgments to name a few. For when God comes to earth for us, we have to come right back down.  And is as John 14:3 states, How can we (his Church) be with him at all times and everywhere he is, if we are still on earth being persecuted and killed?

I understand everyone is entitled to their opinion and boy am I opinionated lol..  However, one of us in any opposing conversation will be wrong and it may (is up to Jesus) have dire consequences. 

In my case, If I am wrong as a Pre-trib rapturist, then I will die (one way or the other) in Christ and nothing is lost as My soul will still go to heaven.

It is said in the Bible, that after the Pre-trib Rapture, the greatest revival the world has ever known will be during Daniel's 70th week. This will include those who received the Gospel by the 144,000, resulting in multitudes, tribes and nations converting including the 1/3 (remnant )  Jewish people who will convert to Jesus at the Abomination of Desolate.

Those left behind will know exactly what happened and WHY! They too will instantly be converted, and will have to die during Daniel's 70th week to PROVE their new beliefs.

Joe and I are just one of many examples of the differences in the Biblical world. This Forum has to present the Best arguments (from all sides) that it can to educate people about Jesus Christ and His Gospel and give them a reasonable guideline to make decisions on.

 Is this what GOD wants us to DO?

 I think so... so much for the penny I offer!

Hope you have a Blessed day, Sasha, my sister in Christ.

Blade

I’ll take your Penny and hold on to it!  Well said!!!!

I mostly keep my mouth shut, because I can get quite rambunctious.

I’ll reveal this about my personal view.  I’m cookoo for Israel and see any prophecy void of the Israel of landscape and blood origin as complex mental gymnastics that go past the natural flow of scripture.

But, that’s my .05 cents on the matter.

All Love in Jesus Christ to you, Blade.

* God has not left HIS people behind. This shown throughout prophecy in the OT and NT. The Covenants are and will be in effect. especially GEn 12:3.   oh, and GOD is in control, HE left them.

*If you rightly divide the Bible, everything will make sense and be easier to read ACTs 2:1 was the beginning of the CHurch because that was the day the Holy Spirit came into the Church.

*These are people that are left behind. You probably know some that believe in Jesus but do not believe in everythin He has said.
 the 144,000 will evangelize around the world and bring in multitudes . They themselves will be martyred. The two Witnesses will bring in many believers after they are rapture to heaven. These will also Die in Christ.  and the OT saints (their souls are in Heaven already) will be resurrected from their graves unto life again. They too are redeemed.

Mat 24:29-31 is the 2nd coming of Jesus WITH his elect.(Notice that all peoples of the earth see him.).  1 Thes 4:13-18 is the Rapture and only the Church those who are alive and those who have died in him with see him. A very small crowd.  Notice He does not come to  earth but to the clouds and He Comes FOR his ELECT.    These are NOT the same.

I am sorry JOE, There was just no easy way to say it.

Blade


[/color]

Blade,
Don't worry about trying to say things the easy way. I appreciate you being direct.
As to the idea of Matt:24 and 1Thes being similar, but not the same, I look to Rev 1:4-8. Notice the clouds here too. He comes in the clouds AND every eye shall see Him.
Rev 1:4  John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; 5  And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6  And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 7  Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 8  I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

John wrote to the seven churches in Asia, which I believe were literal, historical churches, just like churches are today. Look what John tells them to look for. It is a coming of Christ with clouds where every eye shall see him.  Please keep in mind that my main thrust in this discussion is not to convince you of my position, but for you to see that I can hold to my beliefs and still be a Bible believer. I consider you to be a Bible believer.
[/quote]

Hey Joe,,, Of course, I consider you a Bible Believer. I just cannot for the life of me, figure out what changed your mind to the Post-rapture view. And I know you see me the same way. Why can HE not see it?

Hope you have a great evening,

Blade

Hey Joe,,, Of course, I consider you a Bible Believer. I just cannot for the life of me, figure out what changed your mind to the Post-rapture view. And I know you see me the same way. Why can HE not see it?

Hope you have a great evening,

Blade
[/quote]
My literal view of interpretation keeps me from becoming amillennial. I believe that there will be a literal future 1,000 year reign of Christ. It only makes sense that Christ must first return, before he can rule. The post tribulation and pre-wrath positions do not go hand in hand with amillennialism. I can't figure out how you can look at the verses I already used in my defense and still see a pre-trib rapture. It is very plain to me.

If somebody can explain amillennnial and pre-millennial in just few sentences that would be great. I will likely forget anyway because it just doesn't matter to me. I'm secure and confident that God will work His perfect will and whatever that is I'm ok with. So whether I am raptured or rule on earth or wherever I end up it's all God's will.




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Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection, the gospel of our salvation, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -

People believe all the evil and corruption that became the Catholic church happened over many centuries, that's not true. The greatest evils took place from the turn of the 1st century to the 4th century.

Under Ignatias the bishops basically took over the church, took over the Headship of Jesus Christ and the management by the Holy Spirit of the work of the ministry.

People talk about the cessation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, you bet. He would never demonstrate or authenticate such wickedness. They began worshipping the bread, the Eucharist and substituted the gifts with sacraments.


The miracles, signs and wonders were the coming of the Kingdom in the lives of people, as the devil was kicked out and as Christ came to the people their lives were changed 180 degrees. ..sure.


But God withdrew His power, He still worked for they were still His church. But He no longer worked openly He worked secretly.


THAT'S when the church decided to abandon the doctrine of the Kingdom and adopted instead amillennialism.

The ROC was and has been always evil. When you think something else think of Pope Innocent III who in one afternoon killed more Christians than all the Caesars of Rome together.

Want to know how bad, Read the Book, "the woman Rides the beast" by David Hunt.

Blade

You haff to look at the RCC as two distinct things, the hierarchy and structure and the laity.

There really are some WONDERFUL servants of Christ in her midst....the time draws near and probably is now when they must come out of her "come out of her oh ye My people..."

That might explain the thing underneath the Vatican, evil things. So the good and righteous should come out of her? Thanks Billy for posting here !!![/size]

That last 7 years do correspond to the great endtime persecution aka the great tribulation for Antichrist will be supreme.

The tribulation happens in the world not in Israel, Israel will be in peace and safety. At least for the first 3.1/2years of it. Antichrist will have a peace treaty with Israel and they will build the temple.

Good evening Billy.. During the time after the removal of the Church (Body of Christ) and the beginning of the Millennium, 2/3 of Israel will die. That is 1/3 more than what Died during WWII.

If you will check out Isaiah 28:14-18, you will see that Israel has made a covenant with "Death and HELL". Recognize them? You should they are in Rev 6 and ride a pale horse.

The antichrist (Pseudo Christ) will only enforce the covenant until as you say, the last 3.5 years starts (Abomination of Desolate Happens). The Hordes (armies) of Gentiles being held off by this fellow, are no longer held back. As the AOD is seen by every eye ( a technology statement--CNN and Internet), Those Israelis who do believe that Jesus  (only 1/3 of the population alive) is the Messiah flees Jerusalem toward Petra. God will protect them on their journey as well as during the next 3.5 years of nothing but hell on earth.

Blade