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Author Topic: ROMANS: THE WRATH OF GOD  (Read 1038 times)

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doug

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ROMANS: THE WRATH OF GOD
« on: December 15, 2020, 02:35:24 pm »
(Romans 1:18-20 KJV) 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

The wrath of God has been revealed. God is just because mankind, by the creation, has seen the invisible attributes of God and is without excuse; mankind has held the revealed truth of God in unrighteousness.

What has been known of God from the creation has been expressed in scripture:

(Psalm 19:1-4 KJV) 1 [[To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.]] The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. 2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. 3 [There is] no speech nor language, [where] their voice is not heard. 4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,

(Psalm 8:3 KJV) When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;

(Psalm 143:5 KJV) I remember the days of old; I meditate on all thy works; I muse on the work of thy hands.

God, by his grace, has saved us from wrath and reconciled us through Christ:

(Romans 5:6 KJV) For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

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Ted T.

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Re: ROMANS: THE WRATH OF GOD
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2020, 01:31:46 pm »


God’s Wrath Against Mankind
Rom 1:18  The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness,
19  since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
20  For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

21  For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
22  Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
23  and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

Who are these men?
My first question is, does the group of persons of whom Paul is writing include every person who will be judged or just some?

A natural progression from verse
1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of GOD unto salvation to every one that believeth: to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.  to verse 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness.
would imply verse 18 applies to ALL men not saved, to everyone who will see wrath. We can also say that the attributes of these ungodly in these and other verses apply to every person who will see wrath.

Romans 2:6-8 (GOD)...who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath.

It is also clear that to be contentious to the truth and not obey it, one must first have heard it.

When / How did the non-Christian hear the truth?
1:20  For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.[/COLOR][/font]

This is the one verse in the whole Bible that teaches us (supposedly) that the non-Christians of the whole world of all time will see the wrath because they know of GOD's eternal power and divine nature from the witness of HIS creation.

But in fact, not all the people of the other religions do profess to have learned this knowledge of GOD. How can that be?
1.   They never got it.
2.   They lie about not getting it, and no later convert to Christianity from any other culture or religion has ever exposed this lie.

It may be a Universal Witness but why has it never been suggested as such a witness except by Christians and never by any untaught heathen? That is, why has none of the unconverted heathen ever bore witness to this revelation of the Universal Witness of the truth of YHWH's deity and power in all of history?  If these verses were not here and taught to you this way, would YOU have seen this universal witness about the invisible things of GOD, HIS deity and power?

Where are all the people of the world who looked at the billboard of this amazing witness and who realized the great invisible truths of YHWH which they now reject? Where are their dire warning about this witness to a crazy GOD who makes impossible claims?

   Remember, these folk are deemed to have rejected the truth of His power, ie His judgment. Why did none bow in worship? Where are their stories and their gospel?

Also, if the witness is so clearly seen, how can the vanity of so many Hindus and Buddhists, after spending years meditating on creation, come up with their witness that they are (will become realized as) god: hardly a witness to YHWH and HIS judgement.

And if this witness is so powerful why do we need evangelists to preach the gospel? Why does not every person come to God or reject Him on their own? Why do we need missionaries or even Sunday school teachers in light of this overwhelming universal witness that denies every man any excuse for disbelief?

How does this doctrine that says men are not blind and can see GOD without grace work in light of the doctrine that says all men are spiritually blind and can't see the truth without the gracious saving light of the gospel?

If you do not know the answers to these questions, how can you say that you understand how GOD is willing to put His wrath upon the billions of HIS beloved children that have never heard of Christ? If someone rejects your witness of these verses, how can we be sure they are truly rejecting GOD's truth and not some poor teacher's inadequate version of it?

So I await your sensible offerings, hoping answers will be directed at all these questions surrounding the main pov of the condemnation of people who have seen, experienced, the proven truth of YHWH's divinity and power yet dump that truth because they love their sin more.

Ted
Wheat are NOT reborn / regenerate tares !!!

Matt 13:36-43  ...Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

38 the field is the world
good seed are of the kingdom sown by the Son of man
tares are of the wicked one 39 sown by the devil


Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Ted T.

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Re: ROMANS: THE WRATH OF GOD
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2020, 01:39:23 pm »
1 Thessalonians 5:8-9   ...you yourselves know well that the Day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night..... since we are of the Day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation. For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Why did we miss being pre-destined for wrath when the great majority of mankind are destined to HIS wrath without excuse for changing the truth that has been proven to them of HIS deity and power has been rejected for a lie???

Jn 3:18  Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.
Wheat are NOT reborn / regenerate tares !!!

Matt 13:36-43  ...Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

38 the field is the world
good seed are of the kingdom sown by the Son of man
tares are of the wicked one 39 sown by the devil


Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Bladerunner

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Re: ROMANS: THE WRATH OF GOD
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2020, 07:18:22 pm »
1 Thessalonians 5:8-9   ...you yourselves know well that the Day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night..... since we are of the Day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation. For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Why did we miss being pre-destined for wrath when the great majority of mankind are destined to HIS wrath without excuse for changing the truth that has been proven to them of HIS deity and power has been rejected for a lie???

Jn 3:18  Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

good one TED


Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

patrick jane

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Re: ROMANS: THE WRATH OF GOD
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2021, 10:42:53 pm »
 ;D

 

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