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Author Topic: ROMANS 2:28 THE CHURCH IS NOT ISRAEL  (Read 2434 times)

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doug

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ROMANS 2:28 THE CHURCH IS NOT ISRAEL
« on: April 29, 2019, 12:56:14 pm »

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

There are many who say that the church, the body of Christ, is now spiritual Israel. A member of the body of Christ has become a Jew inwardly. Neither this verse, nor any others, confirm this.

Israel thought their righteousness would come by the law: they stumbled at the stumblingstone, which is Christ (Romans 9:32).

Deuteronomy 14:2 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.

The Lord set Israel apart from all the Gentile nations. To say that the body of Christ is spiritual Israel would dilute this distinction and ignore the existing separation between Jew and Gentile; Christ by the body of Christ has removed the separation and made of Jew and Gentile believers one new man, there is no longer any Jew in the body (Ephesians 2:15). If in the body there is no more Jew, how could it be said there is now one.

Romans 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Paul is saying that his Israelite kinsman are so according to the flesh. To say that the body of Christ is now spiritual Israel is in error; to say all the promises given to Israel are now given to the body of Christ is not spiritual but fleshly.

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The children of the promise is not according to the flesh, but the promise. It is believing Israel who are the children of the promise.

Galatians 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

They which are of faith are counted as children of Abraham not by the law, but by faith. The Gentile heathen nations are to be blessed in Abraham. They which be of faith are blessed with Abraham. This however, does not say the believing Gentiles are to be given the promises of Israel, but rather, are blessed.

Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.
These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

The body of Christ has not been made a holy nation, priests, nor kings. As can be seen in Exodus 19:6 it is only the children of Israel that will be so.

Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

To say Israel has been stripped of all the promises and it's prophetic future as a result of their unbelief, and has been replaced by the body of Christ, the church, is to make the faith of God without effect; let God be true.

« Last Edit: April 29, 2019, 02:57:09 pm by doug »

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Bladerunner

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Re: ROMANS 2:28 THE CHURCH IS NOT ISRAEL
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2019, 07:59:06 pm »

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

There are many who say that the church, the body of Christ, is now spiritual Israel. A member of the body of Christ has become a Jew inwardly. Neither this verse, nor any others, confirm this.

Israel thought their righteousness would come by the law: they stumbled at the stumblingstone, which is Christ (Romans 9:32).

Deuteronomy 14:2 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.

The Lord set Israel apart from all the Gentile nations. To say that the body of Christ is spiritual Israel would dilute this distinction and ignore the existing separation between Jew and Gentile; Christ by the body of Christ has removed the separation and made of Jew and Gentile believers one new man, there is no longer any Jew in the body (Ephesians 2:15). If in the body there is no more Jew, how could it be said there is now one.

Romans 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Paul is saying that his Israelite kinsman are so according to the flesh. To say that the body of Christ is now spiritual Israel is in error; to say all the promises given to Israel are now given to the body of Christ is not spiritual but fleshly.

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The children of the promise is not according to the flesh, but the promise. It is believing Israel who are the children of the promise.

Galatians 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

They which are of faith are counted as children of Abraham not by the law, but by faith. The Gentile heathen nations are to be blessed in Abraham. They which be of faith are blessed with Abraham. This however, does not say the believing Gentiles are to be given the promises of Israel, but rather, are blessed.

Exodus 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.
These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

The body of Christ has not been made a holy nation, priests, nor kings. As can be seen in Exodus 19:6 it is only the children of Israel that will be so.

Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

To say Israel has been stripped of all the promises and it's prophetic future as a result of their unbelief, and has been replaced by the body of Christ, the church, is to make the faith of God without effect; let God be true.

Doug, there are those that want their worldview and/or lifestyle to dictate how they interpret the Bible. They look at the more that 8,000 messianic Jews that accepted Jesus prior to Cornelius and come away with the idea the Church must be Jewish. Yet, Jesus tells us, those who are part of the Church are one BODY, neither Jew or Gentile. They are the  betrothed Bride of Christ.

Thank you for your post.

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
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doug

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Re: ROMANS 2:28 THE CHURCH IS NOT ISRAEL
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2019, 02:44:03 pm »
Hey Bro

I have come across those who say Israel has been replaced by the Church. There is no scripture for this and in fact makes God untrue because it negates his promises to Israel.
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Re: ROMANS 2:28 THE CHURCH IS NOT ISRAEL
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2019, 08:53:50 pm »
Hey Bro

I have come across those who say Israel has been replaced by the Church. There is no scripture for this and in fact makes God untrue because it negates his promises to Israel.

The promises God gave Israel are the main topic for their descension from the truth. We are in agree, no doubt.

Have a good evening.

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
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Re: ROMANS 2:28 THE CHURCH IS NOT ISRAEL
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2019, 11:56:08 am »
Does Romans 2:28-29 Teach A Spiritual Israel?


Romans 2:28-29 is one of the more popular passages used to teach that true Israel is not the physical nation but any who has the spirit of God. This type of interpretation refers to the church today as spiritual Israel. This spiritualization of Israel diminishes the authority of the scripture and denies the natural reading as explained in ‘Does the Bible Teach a Spiritualized Israel’.

Though it may be desirous to try and usurp some of Israel’s prophecies or promises, the natural reading of Romans 2:28-29 does not teach that the church today, where there is neither Jew nor Gentile, is spiritual Israel.

We can determine this first by establishing who the passage is addressing.

‘Thou Art Called a Jew’

“Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God” – Romans 2:17
Romans 2:17 indicates the audience of the passage as those that are called Jews. He continues in the next three verses speaking about how the Jews were given the wisdom of the law.

So then, he that is called a Jew is the same who was given the oracles of God and was given the promises, covenants, and service of God (Romans 3:2, 9:4). The target audience of the passage is physical Israel, those of the house of Jacob.

The Name of God Blasphemed

“Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written” – Romans 2:23-24
As we continue through the passage we see that Paul starts to address a problem with his blessed nation Israel. Israel makes their boast in the law, but they fail to do the law. Israel the people named after God, have become as vain as the Gentiles given up by God in Romans 1 (Romans 1:24,26,28).

The Issue of Circumcision

“For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. “ – Romans 2:25
When God gave the covenant to Abraham, he instituted circumcision as the token that Israel was keeping the covenant (Genesis 17:10-14). If they break the law then the token of keeping it is made worthless. The circumcision sign is made vanity and just as if they were uncircumcised.

“Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?” – Romans 2:26-27
Keep in mind that Israel was given a prophetic position to teach and to judge the nations (uncircumcision), because they were given the promises and the covenant and the law (Romans 9:4, Isaiah 61:6).

However, Paul notices that if Israel behaves like the nations, and the nations walk in righteousness, the nations should judge Israel! Since Israel was blaspheming the name of God by boasting in the law while breaking it, Paul places Israel in their proper place.

He suggests that the nations who kept the righteousness of the law, though being uncircumcised and strangers from the covenants, should be the judge of unrighteous Israel who blasphemed God through their disobedience of the law while carrying the token of obedience in circumcision.

Who’s a Jew?

As we finally reach the verses used to teach a spiritual Israel we should recognize that so far Paul has been talking about the physical nation Israel and their failure to keep the law.

Also, we should realize that no Gentile nation has kept the law either. For the nations were given up by God as being reprobate in chapter 1. This is the very reason God called Abraham out from among the Gentiles, because the Gentiles were already in disobedience.

“For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: “ – Romans 2:28
Here Paul references the true meaning of the circumcision found in the law to describe who is truly a Jew, worthy of the token of the covenant.

“Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked” – Deut 10:16
A Jew obedient to the covenant, worthy of the circumcision, and the name of God is one that circumcises the heart and obeys the law of righteousness. Hence, the final verse.

“But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. “ – Romans 2:29
Israel was wrong to boast in the law, which is the letter, while they were not obeying the law to circumcise their hearts in the spirit. Therefore, though a Jew had an advantage by having the law and the oracles of God, it became of none effect since they were disobedient to it.

Only those circumcised Jews who were obedient to the law could truly claim the promises inherent in the token of circumcision. Rather than adding Gentiles to a supposed “spiritual Israel”, Paul is here removing those dead bones from the nation Israel from claiming righteousness based on their circumcision.

Spiritual Israel

The entire passage speaks of the physical nation of Israel, and their disobedience to the law of Deut 10:16. In no way does it refer to a ‘spiritual’ Israel which is not of physical Israel or to the church today in an allegorical fashion.

Even more significant to those would be saved by God’s grace today is the fact that the uncircumcision are reckoned circumcision in the passage only when they keep the law!

However, Paul proves to both Jew and Gentile that they are all under sin, and by the deeds of the law no flesh shall be justified (Romans 3:10-20). If the Jew in Romans 2:28-29 is spiritual Israel then the Jew in Romans 3:10 must also be spiritual, which would place the most unnatural reading on the passage.

Where is the Jew that is part of an alleged spiritual body of Israel to be found in Romans 3:10 where all are found unrighteous? Everyone on the planet is contained in this passage which sets the foundation for the gospel of the grace of God proclaimed in Romans 3:22-26.

Conclusion

To make the church today part of the Jew in Romans 2:28-29 would require an ignorance of the context, prophecy concerning Israel, as well as a disrespect for the natural reading of the word of God.

The church today is neither a replacement for Israel, nor is Israel an allegory for the church. Instead the church, the body of Christ, that contains the redeemed today is labeled a ‘new creature’ (2 Cor 5:17).

We are given the title of ambassadors for Christ, members of his body, a title separate and distinct from the covenanted name for the nation Israel according to prophecy.






















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Re: ROMANS 2:28 THE CHURCH IS NOT ISRAEL
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2019, 11:28:54 pm »
Does Romans 2:28-29 Teach A Spiritual Israel?


Romans 2:28-29 is one of the more popular passages used to teach that true Israel is not the physical nation but any who has the spirit of God. This type of interpretation refers to the church today as spiritual Israel. This spiritualization of Israel diminishes the authority of the scripture and denies the natural reading as explained in ‘Does the Bible Teach a Spiritualized Israel’.

Though it may be desirous to try and usurp some of Israel’s prophecies or promises, the natural reading of Romans 2:28-29 does not teach that the church today, where there is neither Jew nor Gentile, is spiritual Israel.

We can determine this first by establishing who the passage is addressing.

‘Thou Art Called a Jew’

“Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God” – Romans 2:17
Romans 2:17 indicates the audience of the passage as those that are called Jews. He continues in the next three verses speaking about how the Jews were given the wisdom of the law.

So then, he that is called a Jew is the same who was given the oracles of God and was given the promises, covenants, and service of God (Romans 3:2, 9:4). The target audience of the passage is physical Israel, those of the house of Jacob.

The Name of God Blasphemed

“Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written” – Romans 2:23-24
As we continue through the passage we see that Paul starts to address a problem with his blessed nation Israel. Israel makes their boast in the law, but they fail to do the law. Israel the people named after God, have become as vain as the Gentiles given up by God in Romans 1 (Romans 1:24,26,28).

The Issue of Circumcision

“For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. “ – Romans 2:25
When God gave the covenant to Abraham, he instituted circumcision as the token that Israel was keeping the covenant (Genesis 17:10-14). If they break the law then the token of keeping it is made worthless. The circumcision sign is made vanity and just as if they were uncircumcised.

“Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?” – Romans 2:26-27
Keep in mind that Israel was given a prophetic position to teach and to judge the nations (uncircumcision), because they were given the promises and the covenant and the law (Romans 9:4, Isaiah 61:6).

However, Paul notices that if Israel behaves like the nations, and the nations walk in righteousness, the nations should judge Israel! Since Israel was blaspheming the name of God by boasting in the law while breaking it, Paul places Israel in their proper place.

He suggests that the nations who kept the righteousness of the law, though being uncircumcised and strangers from the covenants, should be the judge of unrighteous Israel who blasphemed God through their disobedience of the law while carrying the token of obedience in circumcision.

Who’s a Jew?

As we finally reach the verses used to teach a spiritual Israel we should recognize that so far Paul has been talking about the physical nation Israel and their failure to keep the law.

Also, we should realize that no Gentile nation has kept the law either. For the nations were given up by God as being reprobate in chapter 1. This is the very reason God called Abraham out from among the Gentiles, because the Gentiles were already in disobedience.

“For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: “ – Romans 2:28
Here Paul references the true meaning of the circumcision found in the law to describe who is truly a Jew, worthy of the token of the covenant.

“Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked” – Deut 10:16
A Jew obedient to the covenant, worthy of the circumcision, and the name of God is one that circumcises the heart and obeys the law of righteousness. Hence, the final verse.

“But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. “ – Romans 2:29
Israel was wrong to boast in the law, which is the letter, while they were not obeying the law to circumcise their hearts in the spirit. Therefore, though a Jew had an advantage by having the law and the oracles of God, it became of none effect since they were disobedient to it.

Only those circumcised Jews who were obedient to the law could truly claim the promises inherent in the token of circumcision. Rather than adding Gentiles to a supposed “spiritual Israel”, Paul is here removing those dead bones from the nation Israel from claiming righteousness based on their circumcision.

Spiritual Israel

The entire passage speaks of the physical nation of Israel, and their disobedience to the law of Deut 10:16. In no way does it refer to a ‘spiritual’ Israel which is not of physical Israel or to the church today in an allegorical fashion.

Even more significant to those would be saved by God’s grace today is the fact that the uncircumcision are reckoned circumcision in the passage only when they keep the law!

However, Paul proves to both Jew and Gentile that they are all under sin, and by the deeds of the law no flesh shall be justified (Romans 3:10-20). If the Jew in Romans 2:28-29 is spiritual Israel then the Jew in Romans 3:10 must also be spiritual, which would place the most unnatural reading on the passage.

Where is the Jew that is part of an alleged spiritual body of Israel to be found in Romans 3:10 where all are found unrighteous? Everyone on the planet is contained in this passage which sets the foundation for the gospel of the grace of God proclaimed in Romans 3:22-26.

Conclusion

To make the church today part of the Jew in Romans 2:28-29 would require an ignorance of the context, prophecy concerning Israel, as well as a disrespect for the natural reading of the word of God.

The church today is neither a replacement for Israel, nor is Israel an allegory for the church. Instead the church, the body of Christ, that contains the redeemed today is labeled a ‘new creature’ (2 Cor 5:17).

We are given the title of ambassadors for Christ, members of his body, a title separate and distinct from the covenanted name for the nation Israel according to prophecy.






















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It is funny that a lot of people say that the Church is Israel. I don't think they have ever read Romans, 9,10,11 or the past, present (1st century) and future of Israel.

Blade

1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
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Re: ROMANS 2:28 THE CHURCH IS NOT ISRAEL
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2020, 07:41:55 am »
Good post Blade
Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


Copyright Disclaimer: All audio and music belongs to the owner/creator. This is a non-profit. Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.

patrick jane

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Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


Copyright Disclaimer: All audio and music belongs to the owner/creator. This is a non-profit. Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.
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Re: ROMANS 2:28 THE CHURCH IS NOT ISRAEL
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2020, 04:32:49 pm »
Blade is cool

patrick jane

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Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


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