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Author Topic: THE CHURCH DID NOT START AT PENTECOST  (Read 1350 times)

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doug

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THE CHURCH DID NOT START AT PENTECOST
« on: June 09, 2019, 04:51:14 pm »
2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

 Jesus, after his resurrection, spoke unto the twelve apostles of the kingdom of God (Acts 1:3). The aspect of the kingdom of God Jesus spoke of was the kingdom of the Davidic covenant; the kingdom promised Israel to reign with Christ on earth (1 Chronicles 17:12 Luke 1:32). The apostles wanted to know if Jesus was about to restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6).

 Jesus commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which was the Holy Ghost (Acts 1:5).

 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

 The apostles, filled with the Holy Ghost, began to speak in tongues.

 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

 Speaking in tongues, as can clearly be seen in verse 6, is speaking in the hearers language. Also in verses 8 and 11, tongues involves the ability given the apostles to speak and be heard in a specific language, not of their own. It was a sign given them to substantiate their ministry.

 Peter, standing with the eleven, spoke in the following verse:

 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

 Pentecost and the filling of the Holy Ghost was prophesied by Joel. This was a fulfillment of prophecy in Joel 2:28-32. This prophecy was directed to Israel, and those present were for the most part Jews.

 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

 In the above verses it should be noted that Peter was not addressing the newly formed church, the Body of Christ, but rather, Israel only. Peter preached Jesus as Christ and his resurrection, the gospel of the Circumcision (Galatians 2:7). The resurrection of Jesus Christ would assure the fulfillment of the future promised kingdom on earth, in which, he was raised from the dead to sit on the throne of David. The Holy Spirit will cause Israel to keep his commandments and reign and rule with him over the nations, to be a light of salvation to the Gentiles (Ezekiel 36:24-28 Revelation 20:4 Matthew 5:14).

 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

 Peter, in the above verses, states that Jesus is both Lord and Christ. Jesus rose from the dead declaring that he is the Son of God (Romans 1:4).

 In verse 38 below, Peter shows that Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah, the Saviour of Israel, who alone can forgive the sins of the nation of Israel.

 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.

 Peter is only offering the above promises of remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost to repentant Israel and those Gentiles who would come to God thru Israel.

 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

 The believers were baptized according to the commandment of the Davidic covenant announced by John the Baptist (Matthew 3:2); the cleansing for the remission of sins; the recognition of the name,authority, and the idenity of Jesus. They were added to them, the church of the Kingdom to come, not the body of Christ.

 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

 2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

 They sold all they had and provided to all according to the commandment to Israel by Jesus in Matthew 13:46 and Matthew 19:21.

 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

 They were in one accord as well. The church here is not the body of Christ. The church here are the believers in Christ who were promised entrance into the kingdom on earth. The kingdom which is postponed and interrupted by our Dispensation of Grace.

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Ted T.

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Re: THE CHURCH DID NOT START AT PENTECOST
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2019, 03:04:16 pm »
Consider:
The church started at the time of our election...
Wheat are NOT reborn / regenerate tares !!!

Matt 13:36-43  ...Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

38 the field is the world
good seed are of the kingdom sown by the Son of man
tares are of the wicked one 39 sown by the devil


Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
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Bladerunner

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Re: THE CHURCH DID NOT START AT PENTECOST
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2019, 03:39:12 pm »
Consider:
The church started at the time of our election...


Then GOD's WORDs are null an void, Right?////

What is the definition of the Church (Body/Bride of Jesus Christ)?

Think about it,,,,,The Church started in Acts 2..... It is not different there than it is at chapter 10 where Cornelius was saved and received the Holy Spirit.

Show me your arguments to the contrary! Please

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
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doug

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Re: THE CHURCH DID NOT START AT PENTECOST
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2019, 03:59:34 pm »
Hello
I do not think any church started at Acts 2.

Acts 2 is only the fulfillment of Joel and the power of the Spirit for Israel to endure the tribulation and enter the kingdom on earth.

There was the church of the wilderness spoken of the assembly of Israel in Acts 7:38.

There was the church of God consisting of those who believed on Christ as Messiah, the Son of God in 1 Corinthians 15:9.

Last there is the church, the body of Christ started with the revelation to Paul.

One last thing....The bride of Christ is for Israel not the body of Christ (Revelation 21:2).

Ted T.

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Re: THE CHURCH DID NOT START AT PENTECOST
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2019, 05:52:50 pm »
Consider:
The church started at the time of our election...
Then GOD's WORDs are null an void, Right?////
Wrong.... Your non- sequitur is a non-starter.  Meaningless even... If you care to expand and  explain yourself, i'm sure  more than one will listen...
« Last Edit: June 10, 2019, 08:30:32 pm by Ted T. »
Wheat are NOT reborn / regenerate tares !!!

Matt 13:36-43  ...Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

38 the field is the world
good seed are of the kingdom sown by the Son of man
tares are of the wicked one 39 sown by the devil


Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
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Bladerunner

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Re: THE CHURCH DID NOT START AT PENTECOST
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2019, 07:47:03 pm »
Consider:
The church started at the time of our election...
Then GOD's WORDs are null an void, Right?////
Wrong....Your non-sequitur is a non-starter. Meaningless even... If you care to expand and explain yourself, i'm sure more than one will listen...

Then you do not consider all of the Bible (KJV) as GOD's WORD..and the 5,000 that were saved are considered by you...NOT in the Church (Body/Bride of Jesus Christ) ..

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

Ted T.

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Re: THE CHURCH DID NOT START AT PENTECOST
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2019, 08:31:59 pm »
Consider:
The church started at the time of our election...
Then GOD's WORDs are null an void, Right?////
Wrong....Your non-sequitur is a non-starter. Meaningless even... If you care to expand and explain yourself, i'm sure more than one will listen...

Then you do not consider all of the Bible (KJV) as GOD's WORD..and the 5,000 that were saved are considered by you...NOT in the Church (Body/Bride of Jesus Christ) ..Blade


If I understood this I just might agree or disagree... 
Wheat are NOT reborn / regenerate tares !!!

Matt 13:36-43  ...Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

38 the field is the world
good seed are of the kingdom sown by the Son of man
tares are of the wicked one 39 sown by the devil


Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Bladerunner

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Re: THE CHURCH DID NOT START AT PENTECOST
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2019, 11:35:10 pm »
Consider:
The church started at the time of our election...
Then GOD's WORDs are null an void, Right?////
Wrong....Your non-sequitur is a non-starter. Meaningless even... If you care to expand and explain yourself, i'm sure more than one will listen...

Then you do not consider all of the Bible (KJV) as GOD's WORD..and the 5,000 that were saved are considered by you...NOT in the Church (Body/Bride of Jesus Christ) ..Blade


If I understood this I just might agree or disagree...


I think you need to read your Bible (KJV).
First of all, the whole book of the Holy Bible(KJV) is GOD's WORD!

2 Tim 3:16.."All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

In Acts 2, 3,000 were saved that heard the gospel (WORD) of Jesus and received the Holy Spirit (Baptized).

Acts 2:41.."Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls."

And the 5,000 saved through the Grace of Jesus Christ, you do not consider in the Church (Body/Bride of Christ)??

Acts 4:4.."Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand."

Ted, I have shown some 8,000 people (all JEWS) as part of the Church (Kingdom of GOD, Body and Bride of Jesus Christ) prior to Cornelius (a gentile) being saved and being baptized in the WORD.

Therefore the Church started in ACTS 2 unless you are saying these 8,000 Jews were not saved and did not receive the Holy Spirit. If you do then, you do not care what the Bible says if it disagrees with your interpretation.

As always, I ask you not to believe a word I say but rather look it up yourself and decide. Acts 17:11


Blade

1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

patrick jane

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Re: THE CHURCH DID NOT START AT PENTECOST
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2019, 11:40:17 pm »
Consider:
The church started at the time of our election...
Then GOD's WORDs are null an void, Right?////
Wrong....Your non-sequitur is a non-starter. Meaningless even... If you care to expand and explain yourself, i'm sure more than one will listen...

Then you do not consider all of the Bible (KJV) as GOD's WORD..and the 5,000 that were saved are considered by you...NOT in the Church (Body/Bride of Jesus Christ) ..Blade


If I understood this I just might agree or disagree...


I think you need to read your Bible (KJV).
First of all, the whole book of the Holy Bible(KJV) is GOD's WORD!

2 Tim 3:16.."All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

In Acts 2, 3,000 were saved that heard the gospel (WORD) of Jesus and received the Holy Spirit (Baptized).

Acts 2:41.."Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls."

And the 5,000 saved through the Grace of Jesus Christ, you do not consider in the Church (Body/Bride of Christ)??

Acts 4:4.."Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand."

Ted, I have shown some 8,000 people (all JEWS) as part of the Church (Kingdom of GOD, Body and Bride of Jesus Christ) prior to Cornelius (a gentile) being saved and being baptized in the WORD.

Therefore the Church started in ACTS 2 unless you are saying these 8,000 Jews were not saved and did not receive the Holy Spirit. If you do then, you do not care what the Bible says if it disagrees with your interpretation.

As always, I ask you not to believe a word I say but rather look it up yourself and decide. Acts 17:11


Blade

Blade, I thought they were still preaching baptism for remission of sins until Paul came along, even at Pentecost. Read it yourself, don't take my word for it.
Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins, the gospel of our salvation, and repenting, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


Copyright Disclaimer: All audio and music belongs to the owner/creator. This is a non-profit. Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.

Bladerunner

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Re: THE CHURCH DID NOT START AT PENTECOST
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2019, 12:47:21 am »
Consider:
The church started at the time of our election...
Then GOD's WORDs are null an void, Right?////
Wrong....Your non-sequitur is a non-starter. Meaningless even... If you care to expand and explain yourself, i'm sure more than one will listen...

Then you do not consider all of the Bible (KJV) as GOD's WORD..and the 5,000 that were saved are considered by you...NOT in the Church (Body/Bride of Jesus Christ) ..Blade


If I understood this I just might agree or disagree...


I think you need to read your Bible (KJV).
First of all, the whole book of the Holy Bible(KJV) is GOD's WORD!

2 Tim 3:16.."All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

In Acts 2, 3,000 were saved that heard the gospel (WORD) of Jesus and received the Holy Spirit (Baptized).

Acts 2:41.."Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls."

And the 5,000 saved through the Grace of Jesus Christ, you do not consider in the Church (Body/Bride of Christ)??

Acts 4:4.."Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand."

Ted, I have shown some 8,000 people (all JEWS) as part of the Church (Kingdom of GOD, Body and Bride of Jesus Christ) prior to Cornelius (a gentile) being saved and being baptized in the WORD.

Therefore the Church started in ACTS 2 unless you are saying these 8,000 Jews were not saved and did not receive the Holy Spirit. If you do then, you do not care what the Bible says if it disagrees with your interpretation.

As always, I ask you not to believe a word I say but rather look it up yourself and decide. Acts 17:11


Blade

Blade, I thought they were still preaching baptism for remission of sins until Paul came along, even at Pentecost. Read it yourself, don't take my word for it.


Patrick....No, the Book of Acts is a transition book from the Baptism by water to the baptism by the word. 

Look to Acts 2:21.(KJV)..."And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved." Nothing about water Baptism.

Acts 2:41.(KJV)."Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls."

This is when the Holy Spirit came in though the window and was touching everyone that believed... Acts 2 says nothing about water baptism.

Acts 4:4.(KJV)."Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand."

Here in verse eight of Acts 4, Peter is giving the "Kingdom of GOD" gospel which is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The mystery of Paul "the Church" (Body/Bride of Christ) which is still not known.

All the Jews knew was that they were saved by the word of Jesus Christ   Many in later chapters asked to be baptised by water. Peter ask them if they believed in Jesus as the Son of God. they said yes, and they were then water baptised. (Faith then works)

Paul was brought on board after the death of Stephen. This was the third and final rejection of the "Kingdom of Heaven" or the Millennium as we now know it. Up until this time, those that believed in Jesus would be apart of this kingdom on earth.

The New Covenant stated in Jer 31:31-34(KJV) .."v 31. Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:............."....I did not add the last three verses on purpose. I wanted you the reader to look them up.

Accordingly, God places himself in their heart and minds, and no more will the sin. The Jews had to have this to get into the Kingdom of Heaven on earth....Rev 12 shows the Woman (Remnant of Israel) finding shelter with our Lord GOD Jesus Christ in the Mountains of Jordan known as Petra.

PJ. Keep in mind that the most important thing to a believing gentile, You and I; is  we get to be with the LORD in Heaven. To the JEW, the LAND was the promise GOD made to them and He has yet to deliver it. In the Millennium, He will deliver it. The Jew will have the fig tree and the grapevine he so  desperately wants.

After Acts 7 and the death of Stephen and the last straw for the KOH, Paul is brought to center stage. In chapter 9 Paul reveals His mystery and the Grace of Jesus Christ.

Cornelius was the first Gentile, we are told that was saved and received the Holy Spirit but the Church (body of Christ) already had at least 8,000 souls who most likely were still alive thus were also a part of Jesus' Church at that time. Of, course they are now saints in heaven awaiting the 1st resurrection to continue at the Rapture.

Hope this helps.

Blade




1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
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