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Author Topic: WHAT THE CHURCH HAS TO LOSE  (Read 1015 times)

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doug

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WHAT THE CHURCH HAS TO LOSE
« on: April 20, 2020, 09:26:01 am »
It may be desirable for the church, the body, to have the physical blessings given to Israel, but the riches of Christ would be lost.

The church, the body of Christ, in this dispensation has not been given the new covenant, nor in fact, any covenant. If that would be the case, then we need to examine what the new covenant is and how that would affect our understanding of what the church has in Christ.


Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This is the new covenant which God made with the house of Israel, not with the church, the body of Christ.

Ezekiel 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

The body of Christ was not promised a land.

36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

If the church is in the new covenant, then we are declared to be unclean. The church, however has been cleansed in Christ (Ephesians 5:26).

36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

The church does not have any fathers and we don't have any land. The church has a position in the heavenly places; being placed in the covenant would rob us of our spiritual blessings (Ephesians 1:3).

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

The times of refreshing is the coming of the Lord. Israel is waiting for their salvation when Christ comes. Saying that the church is under the new covenant denies that the church has forgiveness in Christ now (Ephesians 1:7).

1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Israel's salvation is future, and putting the church in the covenant would rob us of the power of God for our salvation which we have now (Romans 1:16).

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Jesus says it is the "covenant unto them", which is Israel, not the church.

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patrick jane

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Re: WHAT THE CHURCH HAS TO LOSE
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2020, 10:38:43 am »
I thought everybody knew -
Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


Copyright Disclaimer: All audio and music belongs to the owner/creator. This is a non-profit. Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.

Bladerunner

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Re: WHAT THE CHURCH HAS TO LOSE
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2020, 08:30:44 pm »
It may be desirable for the church, the body, to have the physical blessings given to Israel, but the riches of Christ would be lost.

The church, the body of Christ, in this dispensation has not been given the new covenant, nor in fact, any covenant. If that would be the case, then we need to examine what the new covenant is and how that would affect our understanding of what the church has in Christ.


Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This is the new covenant which God made with the house of Israel, not with the church, the body of Christ.

Ezekiel 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

The body of Christ was not promised a land.

36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

If the church is in the new covenant, then we are declared to be unclean. The church, however has been cleansed in Christ (Ephesians 5:26).

36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

The church does not have any fathers and we don't have any land. The church has a position in the heavenly places; being placed in the covenant would rob us of our spiritual blessings (Ephesians 1:3).

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

The times of refreshing is the coming of the Lord. Israel is waiting for their salvation when Christ comes. Saying that the church is under the new covenant denies that the church has forgiveness in Christ now (Ephesians 1:7).

1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Israel's salvation is future, and putting the church in the covenant would rob us of the power of God for our salvation which we have now (Romans 1:16).

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Jesus says it is the "covenant unto them", which is Israel, not the church.

Doug....you said " The church, the body of Christ, in this dispensation has not been given the new covenant, nor in fact, any covenant. If that would be the case, then we need to examine what the new covenant is and how that would affect our understanding of what the church has in Christ."But those


Doug keep in mind there are many Messianic Jews who believe as you and I do about Jesus. But those Jews who practice Judaism, Jesus is a dirt word.

I found this place on you-tube where some of the Messianic Jews have come forward and have given their story. It will open you eyes even further. It did mine and I believe what you are just beginning to for a long time.  "One for Israel Ministry"  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sMEkGoojbg)

Also keep in mind that the Gentiles who believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ, are given the inheritance of all covenants. Yet, I stipulate the delivery of these covenant is a little different from what affect they will have on the Remnant of Israel.  here is how, I believe, it goes.

The Remnant of Israel first: The Jews have a tie to the land that gentiles do not. Thus in the millennium, the remnant of Israel will still be in mortal bodies, given the New Covenant and allowed to eat of the tree of life. They will help Jesus rule Israel during the millennium.

The Church the second part, receives Justification(Salvation-New Covenant) when they give themselves body and mind to the Lord our GOD. Now you may be asking where the other covenants come into play?

We, the Church will be removed to Heaven(Haprozo), receiving a translated Body like that of Jesus Christ. 1 Jo 3:2..(KJV).. "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.."

It is written those of the Church will become Kings and Priest (Rev 5:9-10..(KJV).".And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; v10..And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth." and will help Jesus during the millennium rule the world...How this is to be so is not told to us but one can speculate that all the nations (Sheep and Goat Judgements..Mat 25:32-33..(KJV).."And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:v33..And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left."... Mat 25:(KJV).."Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"

The Tribulation saints those who will lose their lives (heads) in the name of Jesus after the Church disappears will serve him day and night

Rev 6:9-11..(KJV).."And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:. v10..And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? v11..And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were,should be fulfilled."

Rev 7:9..(KJV)"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;"

Rev 7:14-15..(KJV).."And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. v14..Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them."

We, the Church are part of the covenants by an inheritance of a distant cousin or something like that.  Whether we as Kings and Priest will live on earth is up for grabs...I suspect that we will not as this type of scenario will continue after the millennium and into the NEW Earth... The New Jeruslaem does not appear to land on earth but rather hoover in the sky.....

Rem, this DOUG, Revelation is the only Book in the Bible that gives those who read and understand its pages a special blessing. (Rev 1:3..(KJV).."Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand."

May you have the blessings of Jesus Christ for the rest of your days on earth,.

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

Billy Evmur

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Re: WHAT THE CHURCH HAS TO LOSE
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2020, 04:05:42 am »
Paul teaches "we have been redeemed from the curse of the law"


We haven't been redeemed from the blessings of obedience to the law. Jesus said "I am Lord of both Heaven and Earth ... go ye therefore....." This is the good news


When Jesus died on the cross he took the curse of sin, Himself became the curse. The curse of sin is sin, sickness, poverty and death.


That is how it was in the early church. In Paul's churches there were ministries of miracles, healing, exorcism, administration etc exactly the same as the church at Jerusalem.


What happened then?


The church was usurped by the bishops and became aggressively anti-semite. The Holy Spirit no longer manifested Himself [although He worked secretly] The church became a spiritual entity and forssok the earthly good that was part of her inheritance in Christ.
Have faith in God
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patrick jane

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Re: WHAT THE CHURCH HAS TO LOSE
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2020, 04:17:36 am »
Billy ;D
Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


Copyright Disclaimer: All audio and music belongs to the owner/creator. This is a non-profit. Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.

truthjourney

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Re: WHAT THE CHURCH HAS TO LOSE
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2020, 07:21:50 am »
I found this place on you-tube where some of the Messianic Jews have come forward and have given their story. It will open you eyes even further. It did mine and I believe what you are just beginning to for a long time.  "One for Israel Ministry"  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sMEkGoojbg)
I enjoyed watching this video. Thanks for posting it.  :)

Eph. 5:11 Take no part in the worthless deeds of evil and darkness; instead, expose and rebuke them.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

doug

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Re: WHAT THE CHURCH HAS TO LOSE
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2020, 09:25:04 am »
It may be desirable for the church, the body, to have the physical blessings given to Israel, but the riches of Christ would be lost.

The church, the body of Christ, in this dispensation has not been given the new covenant, nor in fact, any covenant. If that would be the case, then we need to examine what the new covenant is and how that would affect our understanding of what the church has in Christ.


Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This is the new covenant which God made with the house of Israel, not with the church, the body of Christ.

Ezekiel 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

The body of Christ was not promised a land.

36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

If the church is in the new covenant, then we are declared to be unclean. The church, however has been cleansed in Christ (Ephesians 5:26).

36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

The church does not have any fathers and we don't have any land. The church has a position in the heavenly places; being placed in the covenant would rob us of our spiritual blessings (Ephesians 1:3).

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

The times of refreshing is the coming of the Lord. Israel is waiting for their salvation when Christ comes. Saying that the church is under the new covenant denies that the church has forgiveness in Christ now (Ephesians 1:7).

1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Israel's salvation is future, and putting the church in the covenant would rob us of the power of God for our salvation which we have now (Romans 1:16).

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Jesus says it is the "covenant unto them", which is Israel, not the church.

Doug....you said " The church, the body of Christ, in this dispensation has not been given the new covenant, nor in fact, any covenant. If that would be the case, then we need to examine what the new covenant is and how that would affect our understanding of what the church has in Christ."But those


Doug keep in mind there are many Messianic Jews who believe as you and I do about Jesus. But those Jews who practice Judaism, Jesus is a dirt word.

I found this place on you-tube where some of the Messianic Jews have come forward and have given their story. It will open you eyes even further. It did mine and I believe what you are just beginning to for a long time.  "One for Israel Ministry"  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sMEkGoojbg)

Also keep in mind that the Gentiles who believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ, are given the inheritance of all covenants. Yet, I stipulate the delivery of these covenant is a little different from what affect they will have on the Remnant of Israel.  here is how, I believe, it goes.

The Remnant of Israel first: The Jews have a tie to the land that gentiles do not. Thus in the millennium, the remnant of Israel will still be in mortal bodies, given the New Covenant and allowed to eat of the tree of life. They will help Jesus rule Israel during the millennium.

The Church the second part, receives Justification(Salvation-New Covenant) when they give themselves body and mind to the Lord our GOD. Now you may be asking where the other covenants come into play?

We, the Church will be removed to Heaven(Haprozo), receiving a translated Body like that of Jesus Christ. 1 Jo 3:2..(KJV).. "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.."

It is written those of the Church will become Kings and Priest (Rev 5:9-10..(KJV).".And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; v10..And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth." and will help Jesus during the millennium rule the world...How this is to be so is not told to us but one can speculate that all the nations (Sheep and Goat Judgements..Mat 25:32-33..(KJV).."And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:v33..And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left."... Mat 25:(KJV).."Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"

The Tribulation saints those who will lose their lives (heads) in the name of Jesus after the Church disappears will serve him day and night

Rev 6:9-11..(KJV).."And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:. v10..And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? v11..And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were,should be fulfilled."

Rev 7:9..(KJV)"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;"

Rev 7:14-15..(KJV).."And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. v14..Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them."

We, the Church are part of the covenants by an inheritance of a distant cousin or something like that.  Whether we as Kings and Priest will live on earth is up for grabs...I suspect that we will not as this type of scenario will continue after the millennium and into the NEW Earth... The New Jeruslaem does not appear to land on earth but rather hoover in the sky.....

Rem, this DOUG, Revelation is the only Book in the Bible that gives those who read and understand its pages a special blessing. (Rev 1:3..(KJV).."Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand."

May you have the blessings of Jesus Christ for the rest of your days on earth,.

Blade

I found the video very interesting.....thanks Blade

patrick jane

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Re: WHAT THE CHURCH HAS TO LOSE
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2020, 12:59:08 pm »
Awesome
Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


Copyright Disclaimer: All audio and music belongs to the owner/creator. This is a non-profit. Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.
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Jesus Truth

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Re: WHAT THE CHURCH HAS TO LOSE
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2020, 05:10:39 pm »
 :)
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patrick jane

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Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


Copyright Disclaimer: All audio and music belongs to the owner/creator. This is a non-profit. Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.

patrick jane

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Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


Copyright Disclaimer: All audio and music belongs to the owner/creator. This is a non-profit. Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.

 

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21 Jan, 2021 19:13