Author Topic: HEBREWS 8 THE NEW COVENANT IS NOT FOR THE CHURCH (Read 1304 times)

doug · « **on:** February 04, 2020, 01:59:41 pm »

Hebrews 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

The writer of Hebrews was writing to believing Jews in Christ, who believed the gospel of the kingdom, and were awaiting the coming of Christ to establish their Davidic kingdom on earth (Matthew 4:23 Jeremiah 23:5).

Christ was their High Priest and mediator of a better covenant.

Nowhere does Paul say that the church, the body of Christ, in this dispensation, is under covenant.

8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

The first covenant was not faulty, the fault lied with Israel who failed to keep it.

The writer of Hebrews is referencing Jeremiah 31:31-34 in which the Lord will make an everlasting covenant with Israel (Ezekiel 37:26).

8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Israel failed to keep the covenant made when God took them out of Egypt (Exodus 19:1-6 Deuteronomy 29:25).

8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

The fulfillment of the new covenant is future. It will be realized after "those days". "Those days" are described in Jeremiah 30:3 when Israel will possess all the promised land; "those days" refer to the time of Jacob's trouble, the great tribulation to come upon Israel, in Jeremiah 30:7.

Israel will be enabled by the spirit of God to keep the new covenant. The spirit in them, will cause them to keep his law (Ezekiel 36:27).

The new covenant is made only with the house of Israel, not the church, the body of Christ.

8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

It is only at the coming of Christ, and the establishment of his kingdom on earth, that Israel will receive pardon for their iniquities (Acts 3:19 Jeremiah 33:8).

The church, the body of Christ, has forgiveness of all sin now (Ephesians 1:7 Colossians 1:14).

guest8 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 06, 2020, 08:28:45 pm »

Quote from: doug on February 04, 2020, 01:59:41 pm

Hebrews 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

The writer of Hebrews was writing to believing Jews in Christ, who believed the gospel of the kingdom, and were awaiting the coming of Christ to establish their Davidic kingdom on earth (Matthew 4:23 Jeremiah 23:5).

Christ was their High Priest and mediator of a better covenant.

Nowhere does Paul say that the church, the body of Christ, in this dispensation, is under covenant.

8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

The first covenant was not faulty, the fault lied with Israel who failed to keep it.

The writer of Hebrews is referencing Jeremiah 31:31-34 in which the Lord will make an everlasting covenant with Israel (Ezekiel 37:26).

8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Israel failed to keep the covenant made when God took them out of Egypt (Exodus 19:1-6 Deuteronomy 29:25).

8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

The fulfillment of the new covenant is future. It will be realized after "those days". "Those days" are described in Jeremiah 30:3 when Israel will possess all the promised land; "those days" refer to the time of Jacob's trouble, the great tribulation to come upon Israel, in Jeremiah 30:7.

Israel will be enabled by the spirit of God to keep the new covenant. The spirit in them, will cause them to keep his law (Ezekiel 36:27).

The new covenant is made only with the house of Israel, not the church, the body of Christ.

8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

It is only at the coming of Christ, and the establishment of his kingdom on earth, that Israel will receive pardon for their iniquities (Acts 3:19 Jeremiah 33:.

The church, the body of Christ, has forgiveness of all sin now (Ephesians 1:7 Colossians 1:14).

Will have to disagree with you my friend....You said:"The new covenant is made only with the house of Israel, not the church, the body of Christ."

Yet you also said in the sentence prior:" Israel will be enabled by the spirit of God to keep the new covenant. The spirit in them, will cause them to keep his law (Ezekiel 36:27)."

What is the New Covenant.....about land, NO!. about "Salvation" Yes.....

Jer 31:33 tells us just what the New Covenant is: "But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people (Wife) ." (Emphasis Added)

This is the same "salvation" as Jesus Christ offers. We have the Holy Spirit within us guiding us in a walk toward Righteousness..His Law is within us and we are His Bride, His body.

We are both on the same Vine (GOD)as we (the Church) was grafted in as Israel was temporarily being removed. At the time they receive the New Covenant they will have been grafted back onto the vine. Rem. This is the Remnant of Israel, God (the father's wife) and Jesus is the Mediator during the tribulations, bring her (Israel) back to Him.

We (the Church) are therefore recipients of the New Covenant along with the Remnant of Israel. We just receive it a little earlier than they will.

Have a good day my friend..

Blade

doug · « **Reply #2 on:** February 07, 2020, 09:23:17 am »

The new covenant is about the land in part (Ezekiel 36:24)
God will forgive their iniquities (Jeremiah 31:34)
God will put his law in their hearts (Jeremiah 31:33)
God will make Israel what he has purposed for them, a kingdom and a holy nation of kings and priests (Exodus 19:5-6) to be a blessing and a light to bring the Gentile nations in the kingdom on earth to God (Isaiah 60:3).

We are seated in heavenly places (Ephesians 1:3) and Paul revealed that the blood Christ shed for the new testament for Israel (Hebrews 9:15) was also applied to the body of Christ by the faith of Christ.

guest8 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 07, 2020, 10:30:22 am »

Quote from: doug on February 07, 2020, 09:23:17 am

The new covenant is about the land in part (Ezekiel 36:24)
God will forgive their iniquities (Jeremiah 31:34)
God will put his law in their hearts (Jeremiah 31:33)
God will make Israel what he has purposed for them, a kingdom and a holy nation of kings and priests (Exodus 19:5-6) to be a blessing and a light to bring the Gentile nations in the kingdom on earth to God (Isaiah 60:3).

We are seated in heavenly places (Ephesians 1:3) and Paul revealed that the blood Christ shed for the new testament for Israel (Hebrews 9:15) was also applied to the body of Christ by the faith of Christ.

Again I will have to disagree on the New Covenant. You said it the land in part. Not Really....The other covenants are still in effect and they still convey the promises of GOD about the Land and to make them a nation above nations.

This all happens to the Remnant of Israel at the beginning of the Millennium and the people of the Nations (sheep) of Gentiles have 100 years to decide if they will continue to believe in Jesus Christ....

The Remnant of Israel will rule Israel along with Jesus and the Church (His Body) who live in Heaven will become Kings and Priests for those Gentiles nations.

The Remnant of Israel is unlike the Bride of Christ in that they are mortal and His Bride has received transfigured bodies like HIM. To live the 1000 years, all will have to make a journey to Israel once per year.to receive life from the TREE of LIFE that will be in Jerusalem.

How do they make this journey, I do not know but one scenario might be that all the earthquakes that take down every building around the world, brings Pangea back...Pangea being all the landmasses are ONE.

This is speculation on my part yet is inferred by references that arms will be made into plow shares( equivalent to the stone age). Also, Jesus before the Millennium restores the earth back to what it was during the creation days. (not the New Earth as seen in Rev 21)...The Millennium will still have seas and oceans somewhere.

Here I got off topic.....The New Covenant is GOD placing His laws in the Remnant of Israel in their minds and hearts......etc......They will be His people (wife) as we the Church will be the Wife of Jesus Christ.

Yes, the Bible is a story (plan) from beginning to end about two marriages.

Blade

doug · « **Reply #4 on:** February 08, 2020, 08:59:16 am »

Hey Blade
I think you missed where I wrote the new covenant is future and will be fulfilled in the millennial kingdom
"The fulfillment of the new covenant is future. It will be realized after "those days". "Those days" are described in Jeremiah 30:3 when Israel will possess all the promised land; "those days" refer to the time of Jacob's trouble, the great tribulation to come upon Israel, in Jeremiah 30:7."

But we are not under the new covenant. We have the blood of the new testament applied to us.

guest8 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 09, 2020, 12:24:40 am »

Quote from: doug on February 08, 2020, 08:59:16 am

Hey Blade
I think you missed where I wrote the new covenant is future and will be fulfilled in the millennial kingdom
"The fulfillment of the new covenant is future. It will be realized after "those days". "Those days" are described in Jeremiah 30:3 when Israel will possess all the promised land; "those days" refer to the time of Jacob's trouble, the great tribulation to come upon Israel, in Jeremiah 30:7."

But we are not under the new covenant. We have the blood of the new testament applied to us.

Guess I missed that....As far as the New Covenant, Potato, Potawto. (did not have appropriate symbols to use instead of a "w").

Yes, we have the Blood of Jesus Christ removing our (the world's ) sins but it is by the Grace of Jesus Christ (During the period of the Church and all other periods including that of the Remnant of Israel), we receive a gift of Justification/eternal life. This gift in any form is the same as the NEW COVENANT. I will put my laws in their hearts and minds.

we will just have to agree to disagree....since the Remnant of Israel is still in the future.

Blade

patrick jane · « **Reply #6 on:** February 24, 2020, 08:25:38 am »

Thank you Doug and Blade

patrick jane · « **Reply #7 on:** July 16, 2020, 10:36:44 am »

Quote from: patrick jane on February 24, 2020, 08:25:38 am

Thank you Doug and Blade

nope

guest73 · « **Reply #8 on:** September 04, 2020, 05:02:45 pm »

patrick jane · « **Reply #9 on:** October 22, 2020, 04:59:20 pm »

Quote from: Jesus Truth on September 04, 2020, 05:02:45 pm

patrick jane · « **Reply #10 on:** December 08, 2020, 10:48:33 pm »

Quote from: patrick jane on October 22, 2020, 04:59:20 pm

Quote from: Jesus Truth on September 04, 2020, 05:02:45 pm

patrick jane · « **Reply #11 on:** February 02, 2021, 10:24:41 pm »

Quote from: patrick jane on December 08, 2020, 10:48:33 pm

Quote from: patrick jane on October 22, 2020, 04:59:20 pm
Quote from: Jesus Truth on September 04, 2020, 05:02:45 pm

patrick jane · « **Reply #12 on:** March 02, 2021, 03:39:43 pm »

Quote from: patrick jane on February 02, 2021, 10:24:41 pm

Quote from: patrick jane on December 08, 2020, 10:48:33 pm
Quote from: patrick jane on October 22, 2020, 04:59:20 pm
Quote from: Jesus Truth on September 04, 2020, 05:02:45 pm

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Author Topic: HEBREWS 8 THE NEW COVENANT IS NOT FOR THE CHURCH (Read 1304 times)

doug

HEBREWS 8 THE NEW COVENANT IS NOT FOR THE CHURCH

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