Patrick Jane Forums

Therefore, seeing that there is a difference between before and from, we can determine that God has made a distinction between believing Israel and the church, the body of Christ.

So we find that the elect were chosen BEFORE the foundation of the world and the Lamb was slain FROM the foundation of the world... and from that we can deduce that  God has made a distinction between believing Israel and the church, the body of Christ??

Applying these verses to "a distinction between believing Israel and the church, the body of Christ" as if believing Israel was different from "the church, the body of Christ" is far too great a leap for me and I am known for great leaps of faith to solve problems of blasphemy...

I consider all of GOD's legitimate children on earth to be ONE though called by various names as various lessons were taught : Israel, the Church, the sheep gone astray, the sheep returned, the good (but sinful) seed...all one group, aka the sinful elect.

From my Pre-Conceptionist pov, before the foundation refers not just to the earth but before the creation of the physical universe. Since I reject the doctrine of UNconditional election (which I am prepared to defend vigorously) I believe we existed before the creation of the physical universe so we could actually meet the requirements of the condition for election, (not just in HIS imagination) before the foundation (creation) of the world...hence our pre-conception existence.

We the elect made our choice by faith to accept YHWH as our GOD and the Son to be our saviour before we saw the creation of the world or universe as per Job 38:7 when ALL the legitimate sons of GOD sang HIS praises at that event. IF you are a legitimate child of GOD, you were there singing your heart out!

  Christ was chosen to be the lamb slain for the redemption of His elect sometime before creation since 1 Peter 1:20  He was FOREKNOWN before the creation of the world to be the Lamb v.19, suggesting He was chosen BEFORE the creation of the world (as some bible translators have taken foreknown to mean) is not quite the same as  Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain FROM the foundation of the world.  is it?

He was foreknown to be slain BEFORE the creation of the world...
He was slain for us FROM the foundation of the world...

I contend that when YHWH decided to create HIS Bride, that is people in HIS image HE could have a marriage with, HE knew HE had to give us all a free will or the marriage was worthless so HE knew the possibility of some rejecting HIS proposal was open...so before that creation of everyone in HIS image YHWH decided that the Son was to be the ONE to die for any elect who sinned.

But it was only AFTER some of HIS elect (ie, those who got HIS promise to be HIS Bride) did in fact sin, that the necessity of being slain for them was established at the same time it was also a necessity to establish the world for their place of redemption.

Reconciled perfectly by PCE theology...