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Author Topic: What is the difference between being born again and salvation?  (Read 1319 times)

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Ted T.

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   So what am I really going through based on all of your discussions above?
Salvation is the whole process of being changed from an elect sinner to a holy, sanctified elect, heaven ready. It starts with being given the promise of election to be His heavenly Bride before the world was founded and to having this promise fulfilled in us AFTER we chose to be sinful in HIS sight, by being sown, ie, planted, into the world of mankind, Matt 13:36-39.

Rebirth is the release from the grip of sin clouding our minds and desires unto a life of faith with a restored free will unto sanctification by our training in righteousness, Heb 12:5-11.



« Last Edit: June 09, 2020, 11:09:17 am by Ted T. »
Wheat are NOT reborn / regenerate tares !!!

Matt 13:36-43  ...Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

38 the field is the world
good seed are of the kingdom sown by the Son of man
tares are of the wicked one 39 sown by the devil


Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
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patrick jane

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   So what am I really going through based on all of your discussions above?
Salvation is the whole process of being changed from an elect sinner to a holy, sanctified elect, heaven ready. It starts with being given the promise of election to be His heavenly Bride before the world was founded and to having this promise fulfilled in us AFTER we chose to be sinful in HIS sight, by being sown, ie, planted, into the world of mankind, Matt 13:36-39.

Rebirth is the release from the grip of sin clouding our minds and desires unto a life of faith with a restored free will unto sanctification by our training in righteousness, Heb 12:5-11.
Great post Ted T.
Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


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Chaplain Mark Schmidt

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So reading all this and trying to follow this, salvation and reborn are different but you need both in some order to get to the ultimate goal?

So if you have a calling and you are following  and pursuing it, where are you at?
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

George Orwell
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Bladerunner

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So reading all this and trying to follow this, salvation and reborn are different but you need both in some order to get to the ultimate goal?

So if you have a calling and you are following  and pursuing it, where are you at?

God tells us that He Predestined and Calls those whom He predestines.....For those who He calls, He justifies and whom He justifies, He glorifies...

(1) He calls---- regeneration of your Heart and mind. which will allow you to seek Jesus Christ....

(2) This call is different from His calling of a person to become a missionary or a priest/preacher, etc.

(3).Also this "Call" is a forbearance to Rom 10:17 . Hearing the WORD of Jesus brings the faith in Jesus Christ.

(4) Calls is separate even in the scripture from Justified. God's Words

(5) The "Call"-regeneration (Born again) may or may not happen near the same time of Salvation(justification). In fact it could take years for Salvation to come about.

Blade
« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 01:14:41 am by Bladerunner »
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

Chaplain Mark Schmidt

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So if you are lying clinically dead on operating table and while they are working to restore you, you see Christ that tells you it is not your time yet as you have work to do for Father, are you called or just lucky in more than the doctor's skills?

Does this then allow you to pursue salvation and more?
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

George Orwell

Bladerunner

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So if you are lying clinically dead on operating table and while they are working to restore you, you see Christ that tells you it is not your time yet as you have work to do for Father, are you called or just lucky in more than the doctor's skills?

Does this then allow you to pursue salvation and more?
Having been there trying to save a person from death, you have touch on a very deep subject. As there are many types of clinical death, any revival is GOD's work and His Alone...It may be through the people who are trying to save them but it still up to Jesus.

But that is not what you are asking....You are asking if that person is "saved", "called"  or given a 2nd chance.

(1)..The unarguable fact is that this person has received a 2nd chance at life, taken from the grips of death itself.

(2) being called or saved is again something that I or YOU cannot answer. Only the person and His/her actions will tell.

I can tell you from My experience, being called (born again) being saved are two different events and do not necessarily happen within seconds or minutes of one another. Sometimes it takes years for this to happen...

In your question, you did not give us the information of the time in between the miracle event and the start of this work GOD wanted to him to do? Was it immediate or was it months and Years.

Rom 10:17 tells us "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
 
However the verses 8 through 16 gives context on why this is so.

Mark...In my opinion, a person saved from the jaws of death b Our Lord Jesus is given a 2nd chance not given to the majority of sinners. This is the only event I can speak about with certainty.

One other Item, Mark....We all have a specific number of days to live on this earth...We know not when or how our Harpazo will take place. There is one thing for certain. We will all be "On Time" for this event.

Thanks for the conversation, be safe my Brother

Blade





1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
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Chaplain Mark Schmidt

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The surgery was in April 2002.   His action that led me to believe he was starting on his journey so to speak was very gradual. It came to be apparent he was on a mission at least to me in 2011 ish.  While I still think there is confusion and fear to go all out on his part.

I am no expert but I think he was called, has a calling, has been reborn after that experience on operating table and I firmly believe he has been saved.

One interesting side note.  He tried to tell any who would listen after his surgery.  Only his 88 yr old mom, the doctor and his wife would listen, everyone else laughed at him.  That I think is why it took so long for him to start his journey.
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

George Orwell
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patrick jane

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https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2020/july-august/steven-lawson-new-life-christ-born-again.html








Even Among Well-Meaning Christians, ‘Born Again’ Is Often Misunderstood








Recapturing the meaning of a much-stereotyped phrase.


Being called a “born-again Christian” can mean many things to many people. For some, it means you are a Bible-thumping fundamentalist or a political conservative. For others, it means you were converted at a Billy Graham crusade. Countless stereotypes have created endless confusion.

In New Life in Christ: What Really Happens When You’re Born Again and Why It Matters, Steven J. Lawson moves beyond today’s (mis)use of the phrase to recapture its biblical meaning and extraordinary significance for the Christian life. With pastoral care, he takes us back to that eerie late-night encounter between Jesus and Nicodemus in John 3. Nicodemus, like many today, was as religious as they come. By today’s standards, he would be the popular pastor or professor everyone knows and respects. That makes Jesus’ words of warning so surprising: “No one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again” (v. 3). Nicodemus admits he has no idea what Jesus is talking about: “How can someone be born when they are old? Surely they cannot enter into their mother’s womb a second time to be born!” (v. 4).

As the teacher of Israel, Nicodemus should have remembered Moses and the prophets, who used several metaphors to describe this second birth. Moses told the people of Israel they needed God to circumcise their hearts (Deut. 30:6), and Ezekiel promised Israel that one day God himself would act as a surgeon, removing the dead heart of stone and implanting a heart that beats (Ezek. 36:26). Jesus may move the metaphor to the delivery room, but the message is the same: Unless the Spirit of God does something supernatural, we remain spiritually lifeless.

Unfortunately, even the most well-meaning Christians today can get this miracle backwards. We think the new birth is something we must do. But that misses the miracle of it all. It also misses the meaning of the metaphor: Birth is something that happens to us, not something we accomplish. How much more so with matters of the heart? Lawson stresses that the new birth is the work of the Spirit, not the work of any sinner. Jesus says as much when he tells Nicodemus that one must be born of the Spirit (John 3:5). But like the wind, the Spirit is sovereign, blowing wherever it wishes (v. 8).

That might sound unnerving to evangelicals today, in that it pictures the new birth as something other than an offer we can choose to accept or reject. But Jesus is in the habit of turning preconceived assumptions upside down, even if they belong to Israel’s most renowned scholar. The reason Jesus’ words are so shocking is this: Like babies in the womb, we can do nothing to bring about this new birth. It is not something we initiate. Nor is it a cooperative effort between us and God. It is completely his doing, a phenomenon so unnatural it can only be attributed to the Holy Spirit.

As Lawson reminds us, accepting Jesus is not what triggers the new birth, as if God sits around waiting—hoping!—that somebody somewhere will believe so that he can make that person alive. In reality, apart from new life, we will never believe. Our depravity is that pervasive, sin’s grip that enslaving. In another audacious exercise in ticking off Israel’s religious experts, Jesus tells the Pharisees not only that they won’t come to him for life but also that they can’t (John 6:44, 65). Not unless Jesus draws them, that is; until then, they will never believe in the Father who sent him.

The fact that the new birth produces faith and repentance, rather than stemming from them, is truly liberating. We do not preach or evangelize as if we must somehow work the sinner over until he or she is willed into the kingdom. We are more like the prophet Ezekiel: God tells us to speak words of life to a valley of dry bones. They are dead until they begin to rattle and come alive (Ezek. 37).

The point is, let’s remember who the true miracle worker is: God, not us. We tell others about King Jesus, and then we wait and watch the kingdom fill up, as the Spirit who created the cosmos creates new life in hearts otherwise dead in darkness. No, we can’t see the wind. But we know its power because we can see its effects: a kingdom full of new life in Christ.







Matthew Barrett is associate professor of Christian theology at Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, as well as the executive editor of Credo Magazine. He is the author of many books, including None Greater: The Undomesticated Attributes of God (Baker Books).
Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


Copyright Disclaimer: All audio and music belongs to the owner/creator. This is a non-profit. Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.

Ted T.

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So reading all this and trying to follow this, salvation and reborn are different but you need both in some order to get to the ultimate goal?

So if you have a calling and you are following  and pursuing it, where are you at?


Ummm, to be saved one must have been given the promise of salvation by being elected to be HIS bride and then having the fulfillment of that promise of election in your sinful life which includes a rebirth...
 
Wheat are NOT reborn / regenerate tares !!!

Matt 13:36-43  ...Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

38 the field is the world
good seed are of the kingdom sown by the Son of man
tares are of the wicked one 39 sown by the devil


Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Ted T.

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Does this then allow you to pursue salvation and more?
Salvation does not have to be pursued; it is a given you will receive all it entails if you are elect. 
Wheat are NOT reborn / regenerate tares !!!

Matt 13:36-43  ...Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

38 the field is the world
good seed are of the kingdom sown by the Son of man
tares are of the wicked one 39 sown by the devil


Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
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Lori Bolinger

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Does this then allow you to pursue salvation and more?
Salvation does not have to be pursued; it is a given you will receive all it entails if you are elect.
Philippians 2:12

 

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