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Author Topic: Understanding Genesis 1&2 - The Beginning  (Read 3097 times)

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guest43

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Re: Understanding Genesis 1&2 - The Beginning
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2019, 06:27:44 am »

Quote
Wow Seve, this is exactly how I understand Genesis 1 creation, Gods Days are from when He starts to do, or create one thing, and then ends when He's finished with that project. This, like you said could take anywhere from one of our present solar days, to a million years. God is Eternal, outside of time, so He is not governed by "time", but by the start, and finish of His tasks.

Besides, Jesus even said when he was accused of braking the Sabbath, that his Father is always working, and the Pharisees do work also if their ox was to fall into a ditch.

God bless you.

PS
I do disagree with your Jesus-is-God (Trinity) interpretation though. How can God/Infinite/Eternal be begotten?

Teachers have latched onto this phrase to try to prove their false teaching that Jesus Christ isn't God; i.e., that Jesus isn't equal in essence to God as the Second Person of the Trinity.

"Equal in essence", .. can you find me a Scripture verse that explains, or even hints on such "equality"? I know Jesus never claimed that, and I thought I have exhausted all Scripture references used to justify this equality, but none did justice.
If Jesus is equal to God, then he must have been very confused when this 2/3'ds of God was here on earth by the comments he made, wouldn't you think my brother?
Now the Angel of Fire that appeared to Moses we see was clearly God "in the Angel", yet the Trinitarians ignore that fourth God, .. why?

Quote
Patrick Jane Said: They see the word "begotten" and say that Jesus is a created being because only someone who had a beginning in time can be "begotten." What this fails to note is that "begotten" is an English translation of a Greek word. As such, we have to look at the original meaning of the Greek word, not transfer English meanings into the text.

So what does monogenes mean? According to the Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (BAGD, 3rd Edition), monogenes has two primary definitions. The first definition is "pertaining to being the only one of its kind within a specific relationship." This is its meaning in Hebrews 11:17 when the writer refers to Isaac as Abraham's "only begotten son" (KJV). Abraham had more than one son, but Isaac was the only son he had by Sarah and the only son of the covenant. Therefore, it is the uniqueness of Isaac among the other sons that allows for the use of monogenes in that context.

The second definition is "pertaining to being the only one of its kind or class, unique in kind." This is the meaning that is implied in John 3:16 (see also John 1:14, 18; 3:18; 1 John 4:9). John was primarily concerned with demonstrating that Jesus is the Son of God (John 20:31), and he uses monogenes to highlight Jesus as uniquely God's Son—sharing the same divine nature as God—as opposed to believers who are God's sons and daughters by adoption (Ephesians 1:5). Jesus is God’s “one and only” Son.

I don't see it like the JW's, or any other Christian denomination.

Yes, I understand all that, but the Word (before he became flesh and was named Jesus) was the First and the Last, the Alpha and Omega, as John 1- explains, while after him God had many "children", some even became disobedient and left their abode and came flirting with the daughters of men, and married whomever they chose, .. right?

The Bible says "the Only Begotten Son of God", because like Eve, she was the Only begotten of Adam. Adam was created in the Image of God, and it is obvious that Eve was begotten or "taken out of" Adam.

Now Adam and even beget many other children, just as through the son Word, God beget many other children also. It says it right in John and other places who Gods son Word was, and he is always the true one, and unlike Abraham who's first child was of sin through Hagar, (doubting God is a sin, since Abraham allowed his wife to doubt God) we can't use sin begotten children as an example. (I don't want to sound sarcastic my dear brother but) that is a Christian habit to include sin begotten children into the Trinity Apologetic.

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The bottom line is that terms such as "Father" and "Son," descriptive of God and Jesus, are human terms that help us understand the relationship between the different Persons of the Trinity. If you can understand the relationship between a human father and a human son, then you can understand, in part, the relationship between the First and Second Persons of the Trinity.

Please my dearest friends, think how that sounds? Yes, of course God made it so we could understand this Father and son relationship, but How the son Word came to be is clearly shown throughout the Bible, especially in:

Genesis 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
27 So
God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

So here is God talking to His son Word: “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness" (please notice how the KJV and NKJV capitalizes the word "Our" to keep the Trinity in the readers mind that these are gods talking) So how could we liken this to Abraham and Hagar? We can't, it is about man Adam, and the woman Eve, right?
Now look how clear this is: So[/i] God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. .. man was in Gods image, and how do we know Eve was in the son's Word image?

Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

So obviously since All things were created through the son Word, then God created all his other Children through him too, so this fits Eve since all men came through Eve.

Quote
The analogy breaks down if you try to take it too far and teach, as some pseudo-Christian cults (such as the Jehovah’s Witnesses), that Jesus was literally "begotten" as in “produced” or “created” by God the Father.

But that is what the Bible says (I disagree on who the JW's say Jesus is and on many other of their way-out doctrines) but have to agree on this one. What's written has to stay, and it is reiterated throughout the Bible, while Jesus being God is not.

Someone Co-equal with God would never say "My Father is greater than I, .. I do what my Father commands me to do, and say what I heard Him say" and so on.
My son will never be equal with me, he will always remain my son, and I will always remain his father. He was never born my equal, nor will he ever be my father as this Christian doctrine try to use:

Hebrews 1:8 But about the Son he says,

But about the son WHO says? This is David prophesying of the son Word coming into the world:

Psalm 45:2 You are the most excellent of men
    and your lips have been anointed with grace,
    since God has blessed you forever.
3 Gird your sword on your side, you mighty one;
    clothe yourself with splendor and majesty.
4 In your majesty ride forth victoriously
    in the cause of truth, humility and justice;
    let your right hand achieve awesome deeds.
5 Let your sharp arrows pierce the hearts of the king’s enemies;
    let the nations fall beneath your feet.

******************
And it is here David is saying what the son is fighting for as he comes into this world:

Hebrews 1:8 But about the Son he says, (the son of God is saying this)
“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
    a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.


(now this is David saying about the son Word becoming flesh as Jesus Christ-)

9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
    therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
    by anointing you with the oil of joy.”


(as is explained in Colossians 1:15-17)

Putting all things in perspective, while the Trinity is always taking Scripture out of context to try to justify God dying, which they can only do by making Jesus God.

 

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