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Author Topic: The value of a man...  (Read 1480 times)

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guest24

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The value of a man...
« on: May 29, 2019, 12:04:35 pm »
Okay, let's try this one....Romans 7:18
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.


Some people take this to mean that there is nothing at all that is redeemable in mankind. They seem to totally ignore Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

and Genesis 1:31
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

I would like to suggest that there is NOTHING good in my flesh and it's attempt to obey all the while there is still a kernel, an image of the Living God deep within me, hidden by sin, that is good...in fact, very good.

I personally think they go together and compliment one another not cancel one another out. Before we open it to discussion, my premise is that ONLY GOD can bring that image of God to life or if you will, uncover it by circumcising our hearts and renewing our minds.

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patrick jane

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Re: The value of a man...
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2019, 01:11:17 pm »
Okay, let's try this one....Romans 7:18
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.


Some people take this to mean that there is nothing at all that is redeemable in mankind. They seem to totally ignore Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

and Genesis 1:31
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

I would like to suggest that there is NOTHING good in my flesh and it's attempt to obey all the while there is still a kernel, an image of the Living God deep within me, hidden by sin, that is good...in fact, very good.

I personally think they go together and compliment one another not cancel one another out. Before we open it to discussion, my premise is that ONLY GOD can bring that image of God to life or if you will, uncover it by circumcising our hearts and renewing our minds.
I renew my mind daily through Christ. Being in Christ is a constant reminder that pervades my thoughts and actions. I can't get Him off of my mind. Sure, we stray in thought and become distracted and "busy" with daily life and life's requirements and challenges, but God is always on our minds. I know that my flesh only wants comfort and distraction with sin.

I spend so much time online I don't do much else but sleep and eat. I am compelled to spread truth as far and wide as I can and you all help me immensely.

It is Christ in us that is good, yes very good.  I can't say exactly how, why and when I began in Christ but I know that I am. That is my contentment.









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guest17

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Re: The value of a man...
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2019, 05:59:48 pm »
Okay, let's try this one....Romans 7:18
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.


Some people take this to mean that there is nothing at all that is redeemable in mankind. They seem to totally ignore Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

and Genesis 1:31
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

I would like to suggest that there is NOTHING good in my flesh and it's attempt to obey all the while there is still a kernel, an image of the Living God deep within me, hidden by sin, that is good...in fact, very good.

I personally think they go together and compliment one another not cancel one another out. Before we open it to discussion, my premise is that ONLY GOD can bring that image of God to life or if you will, uncover it by circumcising our hearts and renewing our minds.
I think that everything that God created has value and in saying that it gives honor and glory to God. God gives his creation worth and value especially man, human life that as you say was made in his image. Yes I agree, only God can bring that image back to the way he intended it to be. Philippians 1:6 Because I trust concerning this, that he who has begun good work in you will accomplish that until the day of our Lord Yeshua The Messiah.







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guest24

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Re: The value of a man...
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2019, 07:14:24 am »
Many people confuse our value with our ability to earn salvation.  They are vastly different and it is a vital difference to someone like me who has been taught my whole life I have no value.  Of course I canNOT earn salvation, but I do have value, so great a value that Christ came that I might be united with Him....what a wonderful and amazing value He has placed on man.
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guest58

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Re: The value of a man...
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2019, 04:55:43 pm »
Do you accept that the doctrine of GOD condemning billions of people to hell to teach the rest of us  about HIS attributes of HIS loving righteous justice shows the value HE places upon human lives more than the doctrine that HE can prove the same attributes by condemning only one sinner to hell?


That is, which doctrine is superior to teach HIS value of each person?


Does the doctrine of the value of our lives to HIM impact the Arminian doctrine that some can be saved but are cut off during the time they are rejecting his salvation (as we all do sometimes) by ending His loving patience of them (before they choose to repent) for some reason?
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Billy Evmur

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Re: The value of a man...
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2019, 08:59:00 am »
Okay, let's try this one....Romans 7:18
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.


Some people take this to mean that there is nothing at all that is redeemable in mankind. They seem to totally ignore Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

and Genesis 1:31
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

I would like to suggest that there is NOTHING good in my flesh and it's attempt to obey all the while there is still a kernel, an image of the Living God deep within me, hidden by sin, that is good...in fact, very good.

I personally think they go together and compliment one another not cancel one another out. Before we open it to discussion, my premise is that ONLY GOD can bring that image of God to life or if you will, uncover it by circumcising our hearts and renewing our minds.

[/You are wrong.

After Adam and Eve sinned they had children born in their own image. The cross fully shows what God thinks about the natural man.
Have faith in God
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Billy Evmur

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Re: The value of a man...
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2019, 09:00:07 am »
God loves man despite of what he is.
Have faith in God
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guest24

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Re: The value of a man...
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2019, 09:45:12 am »
Okay, let's try this one....Romans 7:18
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.


Some people take this to mean that there is nothing at all that is redeemable in mankind. They seem to totally ignore Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

and Genesis 1:31
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

I would like to suggest that there is NOTHING good in my flesh and it's attempt to obey all the while there is still a kernel, an image of the Living God deep within me, hidden by sin, that is good...in fact, very good.

I personally think they go together and compliment one another not cancel one another out. Before we open it to discussion, my premise is that ONLY GOD can bring that image of God to life or if you will, uncover it by circumcising our hearts and renewing our minds.

[/You are wrong.

After Adam and Eve sinned they had children born in their own image. The cross fully shows what God thinks about the natural man.
you assert that but you fail to show it in scripture....

guest24

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Re: The value of a man...
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2019, 09:53:18 am »
Do you accept that the doctrine of GOD condemning billions of people to hell to teach the rest of us  about HIS attributes of HIS loving righteous justice shows the value HE places upon human lives more than the doctrine that HE can prove the same attributes by condemning only one sinner to hell?


That is, which doctrine is superior to teach HIS value of each person?


Does the doctrine of the value of our lives to HIM impact the Arminian doctrine that some can be saved but are cut off during the time they are rejecting his salvation (as we all do sometimes) by ending His loving patience of them (before they choose to repent) for some reason?
wow...okay, let me explain two things I believe...one you bring up, one Billy does.

As to hell...or eternal torment....notice I did NOT say eternal torture, there is a reason for that.

As I see it, hell is the separation from God, it is eternal, it is torment and it is the CONSEQUENCE of sin, NOT the punishment for sin...very important distinctions to make....I can show you in scripture where I get this but I want to start with summarizing.  As the consequence for sin, it is a natural law, not a written law, much as gravity is a natural law not a written law.  It is not for the purpose of teaching anything, but rather, it is just how things are.  Technically, hell itself as the place, was created for the fallen angels but will be used for those who choose death which is eternal separation from God.

As to Billy's assertions, I believe that we are NOT born sinning...if we were, Christ could NOT have been sin free for the moment He was born He would have been sinning.  Rather we are taught from even before birth to be self centered which is where sin originates.  As such we are brain washed so to speak to sin.  That is why we choose sin because it is all we know.  Even as newborns we are conditioned to choose self over all other.

Hope that clarifies some things for some of you all.

Billy Evmur

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Re: The value of a man...
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2019, 03:25:47 pm »
You are wrong. Adam and Eve had children born in their own image. Christ was conceived in the virgin's womb, without sin. He died the Just for the unjust.

God loves man despite what he is.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2019, 03:27:24 pm by Billy Evmur »
Have faith in God
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guest58

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Re: The value of a man...
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2019, 07:31:14 pm »
You are wrong. Adam and Eve had children born in their own image. Christ was conceived in the virgin's womb, without sin. He died the Just for the unjust.

God loves man despite what he is.
Joseph Henry Thayer says that the Greek word translated REGENERATION "denotes the restoration of a thing to its pristine state, its renovation" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).Richard C. Trench says that the word has the meaning of "a recovery, a restoration" (Trench,Synonyms of the New Testament).

How can we be regenerated then to a state we never had because we were created in Adam's nature / image not in GOD's image???

Eccl 7:29  "Lo, this only have I found, that GOD HATH MADE MEN UPRIGHT; but they have sought out many inventions". You obviously don't accept our being created sinful with Adam's sinful nature to be an expression of uprightness, do you.

And it says that we sought out many inventions, ie sin, not that we were forced into them by HIS will, not our own will by, being made in Adam's sinful nature, ie image..
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guest17

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Re: The value of a man...
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2019, 12:29:04 am »
Do you accept that the doctrine of GOD condemning billions of people to hell to teach the rest of us  about HIS attributes of HIS loving righteous justice shows the value HE places upon human lives more than the doctrine that HE can prove the same attributes by condemning only one sinner to hell?


That is, which doctrine is superior to teach HIS value of each person?


Does the doctrine of the value of our lives to HIM impact the Arminian doctrine that some can be saved but are cut off during the time they are rejecting his salvation (as we all do sometimes) by ending His loving patience of them (before they choose to repent) for some reason?
I don't think I understand what you're saying.

Hellfire and eternal torment and suffering is not part of my belief system. I've only seen that kind of thing done by humans in league with dark evil forces who take pleasure in and enjoy inflicting pain and suffering on others. That's the way they think and operate. They don't value life at all. They have no conscience.That is not the way I view God. He is nothing like these people who do those things. He is not on that same level. His ways and thoughts are higher and his method of justice is more humane.

Quote
Does the doctrine of the value of our lives to HIM impact the Arminian doctrine that some can be saved but are cut off during the time they are rejecting his salvation (as we all do sometimes) by ending His loving patience of them (before they choose to repent) for some reason?

Rom. 2:4 Or do you disregard the riches of His kindness, tolerance, and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you to repentance?

2Pet. 3:9 The LORD is not slow to fulfill His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance.

Ps. 147:11 The LORD taketh pleasure in them that fear him, in those that hope in his mercy.



 
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guest24

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Re: The value of a man...
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2019, 10:33:05 am »
You are wrong. Adam and Eve had children born in their own image. Christ was conceived in the virgin's womb, without sin. He died the Just for the unjust.

God loves man despite what he is.

so when did God remove His image from the Adam and Eve creation?

 

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