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Author Topic: The dangers of woman keeping silent...  (Read 1646 times)

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Lori Bolinger

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Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #117 on: May 22, 2019, 08:28:34 am »
Blade said....
I guess I have learned a lesson here!!!! I did not aim to insult you. Let me put it this way, one more time.

Yes, some scriptures are interpreted by other scriptures. (i.e. Rev. 1:20) Like these scriptures, the Bible lets you know when it does interpret other scriptures.

However, 1 Tim 2:9-15 has no such verses that interpret them. These verses are literally interpreted as spoken by GOD.

There is no other way!

Hope you have a great day!

Blade


I wholeheartedly disagree but then again I did the study...I'm guessing you have never studied the passage the reason you refuse to look at the study with me...you are just following what the teachers you like are telling you.

Bladerunner

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Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #118 on: May 22, 2019, 10:26:51 am »
Blade said....
I guess I have learned a lesson here!!!! I did not aim to insult you. Let me put it this way, one more time.

Yes, some scriptures are interpreted by other scriptures. (i.e. Rev. 1:20) Like these scriptures, the Bible lets you know when it does interpret other scriptures.

However, 1 Tim 2:9-15 has no such verses that interpret them. These verses are literally interpreted as spoken by GOD.

There is no other way!

Hope you have a great day!

Blade


I wholeheartedly disagree but then again I did the study...I'm guessing you have never studied the passage the reason you refuse to look at the study with me...you are just following what the teachers you like are telling you.

Well...I guess we will just have to disagree.

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

Lori Bolinger

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Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #119 on: May 22, 2019, 12:05:25 pm »
Blade said....
I guess I have learned a lesson here!!!! I did not aim to insult you. Let me put it this way, one more time.

Yes, some scriptures are interpreted by other scriptures. (i.e. Rev. 1:20) Like these scriptures, the Bible lets you know when it does interpret other scriptures.

However, 1 Tim 2:9-15 has no such verses that interpret them. These verses are literally interpreted as spoken by GOD.

There is no other way!

Hope you have a great day!

Blade


I wholeheartedly disagree but then again I did the study...I'm guessing you have never studied the passage the reason you refuse to look at the study with me...you are just following what the teachers you like are telling you.

Well...I guess we will just have to disagree.

Blade

I guess so which is sad since all you were asked to do is show me where my study went wrong...what bothers me is how hard you have been fighting against actually studying scripture on this matter.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 12:20:33 pm by Lori Bolinger »
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Lori Bolinger

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Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #120 on: June 05, 2019, 09:44:35 am »
Something has been bothering me about this discussion. 

As I understand the passage as per my study that no one will talk to me about, the summary of the passage is this...

We (both men and woman) are to live quiet and peaceful lives while waiting for God to open the doors of ministry that He wants for them.

Now, if we understand God to be sovereign, this teaching does NOTHING at all to destroy the traditional understanding unless of course God opens the door for women to be in leadership and if God opens the door for woman in leadership, then either we got the teaching wrong, or God is NOT sovereign...

Are we so afraid that we are wrong in our understanding that we cannot accept God's sovereignty?  And yes, that obviously disqualifies those that push their way into leadership but that is the point of the passage as I understand it, pushing your way into leadership, or usurping your authority is NOT allowed.

Oh well, either God isn't sovereign or we are so afraid that we might be wrong that we can't even consider we got the teaching wrong....how sad.

patrick jane

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Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #121 on: June 05, 2019, 12:00:18 pm »
Something has been bothering me about this discussion. 

As I understand the passage as per my study that no one will talk to me about, the summary of the passage is this...

We (both men and woman) are to live quiet and peaceful lives while waiting for God to open the doors of ministry that He wants for them.

Now, if we understand God to be sovereign, this teaching does NOTHING at all to destroy the traditional understanding unless of course God opens the door for women to be in leadership and if God opens the door for woman in leadership, then either we got the teaching wrong, or God is NOT sovereign...

Are we so afraid that we are wrong in our understanding that we cannot accept God's sovereignty?  And yes, that obviously disqualifies those that push their way into leadership but that is the point of the passage as I understand it, pushing your way into leadership, or usurping your authority is NOT allowed.

Oh well, either God isn't sovereign or we are so afraid that we might be wrong that we can't even consider we got the teaching wrong....how sad.
Well, I agree with you.
Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


Copyright Disclaimer: All audio and music belongs to the owner/creator. This is a non-profit. Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.
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Bladerunner

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Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #122 on: June 05, 2019, 02:57:40 pm »
Something has been bothering me about this discussion. 

As I understand the passage as per my study that no one will talk to me about, the summary of the passage is this...

We (both men and woman) are to live quiet and peaceful lives while waiting for God to open the doors of ministry that He wants for them.

Now, if we understand God to be sovereign, this teaching does NOTHING at all to destroy the traditional understanding unless of course God opens the door for women to be in leadership and if God opens the door for woman in leadership, then either we got the teaching wrong, or God is NOT sovereign...

Are we so afraid that we are wrong in our understanding that we cannot accept God's sovereignty?  And yes, that obviously disqualifies those that push their way into leadership but that is the point of the passage as I understand it, pushing your way into leadership, or usurping your authority is NOT allowed.

Oh well, either God isn't sovereign or we are so afraid that we might be wrong that we can't even consider we got the teaching wrong....how sad.
Well, I agree with you.

What I find sad is questioning of the Sovereignty of GOD. It is above questioning in any case!

God will not open the door for women in the church (Brick and Mortar) for leadership roles other than those His teachings already recognizes in the Bible (KJV), His WORD!

What we are seeing is the manifestation of mankind's sovereignty take precedent over God's Sovereignty in this post-modern age. So-Sad

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

Lori Bolinger

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Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #123 on: June 06, 2019, 08:05:54 am »
Something has been bothering me about this discussion. 

As I understand the passage as per my study that no one will talk to me about, the summary of the passage is this...

We (both men and woman) are to live quiet and peaceful lives while waiting for God to open the doors of ministry that He wants for them.

Now, if we understand God to be sovereign, this teaching does NOTHING at all to destroy the traditional understanding unless of course God opens the door for women to be in leadership and if God opens the door for woman in leadership, then either we got the teaching wrong, or God is NOT sovereign...

Are we so afraid that we are wrong in our understanding that we cannot accept God's sovereignty?  And yes, that obviously disqualifies those that push their way into leadership but that is the point of the passage as I understand it, pushing your way into leadership, or usurping your authority is NOT allowed.

Oh well, either God isn't sovereign or we are so afraid that we might be wrong that we can't even consider we got the teaching wrong....how sad.
Well, I agree with you.

What I find sad is questioning of the Sovereignty of GOD. It is above questioning in any case!

God will not open the door for women in the church (Brick and Mortar) for leadership roles other than those His teachings already recognizes in the Bible (KJV), His WORD!

What we are seeing is the manifestation of mankind's sovereignty take precedent over God's Sovereignty in this post-modern age. So-Sad

Blade

If you really believe what you say here, then you should have absolutely no problem with the understanding I found when I studied the passage and yet you are so afraid of it that you won't even look it over and show me where you think I went wrong....why the fear?

Bladerunner

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Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #124 on: June 06, 2019, 08:33:17 pm »
Something has been bothering me about this discussion. 

As I understand the passage as per my study that no one will talk to me about, the summary of the passage is this...

We (both men and woman) are to live quiet and peaceful lives while waiting for God to open the doors of ministry that He wants for them.

Now, if we understand God to be sovereign, this teaching does NOTHING at all to destroy the traditional understanding unless of course God opens the door for women to be in leadership and if God opens the door for woman in leadership, then either we got the teaching wrong, or God is NOT sovereign...

Are we so afraid that we are wrong in our understanding that we cannot accept God's sovereignty?  And yes, that obviously disqualifies those that push their way into leadership but that is the point of the passage as I understand it, pushing your way into leadership, or usurping your authority is NOT allowed.

Oh well, either God isn't sovereign or we are so afraid that we might be wrong that we can't even consider we got the teaching wrong....how sad.
Well, I agree with you.

What I find sad is questioning of the Sovereignty of GOD. It is above questioning in any case!

God will not open the door for women in the church (Brick and Mortar) for leadership roles other than those His teachings already recognizes in the Bible (KJV), His WORD!

What we are seeing is the manifestation of mankind's sovereignty take precedent over God's Sovereignty in this post-modern age. So-Sad

Blade

If you really believe what you say here, then you should have absolutely no problem with the understanding I found when I studied the passage and yet you are so afraid of it that you won't even look it over and show me where you think I went wrong....why the fear?

Lori....I did look at it and there was nothing there..If I remember correctly, you were trying to fit the two churches together so that the equality in one of them, Spiritual Church (Body/Bride of Christ) could also be used in the Brick and Mortar Church here on earth. This cannot be.

And something I think you are missing.... It is not a question of equality. God gave Man a role to play while on this earth and He also gave woman a
role while she was on this earth. One complements the other from both perspectives. The role for the Man was the administration/shepard of the Church here on earth. The role for the woman was motherhood and the teaching of young women and children.

Nothing was said about the separation on Man and Woman in society outside of the church.  So, those women that stay within the limits of the church, will show a different lifestyle that other women in the world.

Is this bad or good....Only GOD knows?

I have and never will intend to hurt you or any woman. However, I will tell them like it is. It is the Lord's Law not mine. His Words are very emphatic about these commandments.

Have a good day.

Blade





1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

Lori Bolinger

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Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #125 on: June 07, 2019, 07:54:33 am »
Lori....I did look at it and there was nothing there..If I remember correctly, you were trying to fit the two churches together so that the equality in one of them, Spiritual Church (Body/Bride of Christ) could also be used in the Brick and Mortar Church here on earth. This cannot be. [/quote] then you didn't read the study which I suspected...
Quote


And something I think you are missing.... It is not a question of equality. God gave Man a role to play while on this earth and He also gave woman a
role while she was on this earth. One complements the other from both perspectives. The role for the Man was the administration/shepard of the Church here on earth. The role for the woman was motherhood and the teaching of young women and children.
The study said absolutely nothing at all about equality.....you really should address the study I presented rather than try to inflate your issues with modern lib movement onto me and my study.
Quote


Nothing was said about the separation on Man and Woman in society outside of the church.  So, those women that stay within the limits of the church, will show a different lifestyle that other women in the world.
you still haven't shown that in the passage nor have you addressed the study I presented.
Quote

Is this bad or good....Only GOD knows?
as per my recent posts, the understanding I have of the passage does nothing to question your understanding as LONG AS GOD HIMSELF keeps woman from leadership....so again, what is your fear about?
Quote


I have and never will intend to hurt you or any woman. However, I will tell them like it is. It is the Lord's Law not mine. His Words are very emphatic about these commandments.
you have NOT shown it to be God's law until you show where my study went wrong....which you haven't even addressed my study at all yet
Quote


Since you obviously didn't even look at the study, here it is again.....Here are my notes from a bigger study on the role of woman.....it probably leaves out some important things since I am trying to pick through it to only address the Timothy passage.  The whole study looks at submission too and what it means not only that but what Love looks like in all relationships and it has a very heavy lean on the marriage relationship/the Church's relationship as the bride of Christ.

I don't believe we can talk about women submitting to their husbands, without also touching on I Timothy 2:12 and I Corinthians 14:34.  Notice that in Titus, woman are to teach what is good, and then in Timothy and Corinthians, they are told not to teach.  This then either becomes a contradiction in Paul's teaching, or it is necessary to take a bit deeper look into Timothy and Corinthians.  The words here for teach and keeping silent, mirror the teaching in Titus.  In Timothy, the woman is told to not teach by usurping authority over the man.  This usurping is one who with his own hand kills another or self, acts on his own authority, is the absolute master. (Thayer's Lexicon)  If we read the text this way, then the teaching is in fact consistent with Titus, a woman can teach, but only with the authority given her by God, not an authority she forces upon others. (Mark 1:27; II Corinthians 2:17; I Thessalonians 2:4; Titus 2:15; I Peter 4:11) Now keep in mind, that woman were just given the power to be heirs, that is equals with men, this is a new power a new authority they do not know how to deal with, a teaching such as this would be very beneficial to woman and is also consistent with Galatians 3:18 (NIV) There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Likewise, in both passages, the command to keep silent is a word used to refer to a quietness of spirit, that is to keep the peace, don't stir trouble, meekness.  Now go back to I Peter 3:4 (NIV)  Rather, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in Godís sight.  Soon, we will look into the woman of noble character in Proverbs 31 and discover this theme, of a woman having authority, being strong and business like, working as equals along with men, but using that authority only with a quiet and gentle spirit is part of both Old Testament and New Testament teaching.

As I review this, it doesn't talk about the men and the likewise in the men which is also consistent with what I understand it is saying based on this study....have a look at how men with authority are to behave and compare that to what I see here about woman....I Timothy 2 8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

They are to do so with  lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting...IN THE SAME WAY WOMEN...how can woman do it the same way if they are NOT to do it at all?

patrick jane

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Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #126 on: June 29, 2019, 11:04:36 am »
Good thread guys and gals.
Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


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patrick jane

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Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #127 on: July 11, 2019, 05:46:48 am »
Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


Copyright Disclaimer: All audio and music belongs to the owner/creator. This is a non-profit. Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.

 

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