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Author Topic: The dangers of woman keeping silent...  (Read 3085 times)

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guest24

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Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #65 on: April 06, 2019, 11:10:21 am »
Blade...if you were following the discussion...it was context that brought me to question some of man's teachings on this passage...so I'm still not sure what your point is....nonetheless, maybe it is time to end here since I can't seem to get anyone to actually discuss it with me other than my husband and he agrees with my conclusions.

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Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #66 on: April 06, 2019, 02:15:44 pm »
Lori, how can we not listen to what man says about God and scripture. Do you think that if you lived alone and stranded on an island, never heard of God or Jesus or the Bible before ever and then somebody dropped a Bible down. Could you read it and "figure everything out"? I've been reading this thread and I still don't know what your point is. What "answer" are you looking for and please state your purpose.







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Some years ago, God called me to study the word of God not the words of man who want to tell me who they think God is.  As a result (as per this thread) I studied this passage in Timothy and found some definite discrepancies between what it says and what man says it says.  As per one of many checks I put on my study I want to open that understanding to challenge.   So my goal is to discuss the discrepancies I found and discuss them in light of the totality of scripture, going off the idea that scripture interprets scripture.  I'm thinking that is never going to happen and so maybe it's time for this discussion to be done.
Maybe we could start with a list. Make a numbered list of the discrepancies between man's teaching and what the wscripture actually says. Take them one by one verse by verse.

guest8

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Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #67 on: April 06, 2019, 07:56:57 pm »
Blade...if you were following the discussion...it was context that brought me to question some of man's teachings on this passage...so I'm still not sure what your point is....nonetheless, maybe it is time to end here since I can't seem to get anyone to actually discuss it with me other than my husband and he agrees with my conclusions.

As you wish Lori.... I am just a simple man following the Word of GOD and trying not to add, delete or change anything into those words that I teach. 

I will say, the way you want to interpret the Bible leads you away from God and His WORD.


Good Day Lori.

Blade




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guest24

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Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #68 on: April 08, 2019, 09:12:22 am »
Blade...if you were following the discussion...it was context that brought me to question some of man's teachings on this passage...so I'm still not sure what your point is....nonetheless, maybe it is time to end here since I can't seem to get anyone to actually discuss it with me other than my husband and he agrees with my conclusions.

As you wish Lori.... I am just a simple man following the Word of GOD and trying not to add, delete or change anything into those words that I teach. 

I will say, the way you want to interpret the Bible leads you away from God and His WORD.


Good Day Lori.

Blade

please explain how allowing scripture to interpret scripture is leading me away from God and His word?

guest24

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Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #69 on: April 08, 2019, 09:13:16 am »
Lori, how can we not listen to what man says about God and scripture. Do you think that if you lived alone and stranded on an island, never heard of God or Jesus or the Bible before ever and then somebody dropped a Bible down. Could you read it and "figure everything out"? I've been reading this thread and I still don't know what your point is. What "answer" are you looking for and please state your purpose.







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Some years ago, God called me to study the word of God not the words of man who want to tell me who they think God is.  As a result (as per this thread) I studied this passage in Timothy and found some definite discrepancies between what it says and what man says it says.  As per one of many checks I put on my study I want to open that understanding to challenge.   So my goal is to discuss the discrepancies I found and discuss them in light of the totality of scripture, going off the idea that scripture interprets scripture.  I'm thinking that is never going to happen and so maybe it's time for this discussion to be done.
Maybe we could start with a list. Make a numbered list of the discrepancies between man's teaching and what the wscripture actually says. Take them one by one verse by verse.
thanks pj but I think I will let it rest for the time being....maybe we can revisit it one day.
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guest8

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Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #70 on: April 08, 2019, 01:53:22 pm »
Lori, how can we not listen to what man says about God and scripture. Do you think that if you lived alone and stranded on an island, never heard of God or Jesus or the Bible before ever and then somebody dropped a Bible down. Could you read it and "figure everything out"? I've been reading this thread and I still don't know what your point is. What "answer" are you looking for and please state your purpose.







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Some years ago, God called me to study the word of God not the words of man who want to tell me who they think God is.  As a result (as per this thread) I studied this passage in Timothy and found some definite discrepancies between what it says and what man says it says.  As per one of many checks I put on my study I want to open that understanding to challenge.   So my goal is to discuss the discrepancies I found and discuss them in light of the totality of scripture, going off the idea that scripture interprets scripture.  I'm thinking that is never going to happen and so maybe it's time for this discussion to be done.
Maybe we could start with a list. Make a numbered list of the discrepancies between man's teaching and what the wscripture actually says. Take them one by one verse by verse.
thanks pj but I think I will let it rest for the time being...maybe we can revisit it one day..

Lori,, you said:"I studied this passage in Timothy and found some definite discrepancies between what it says and what man says it says. "

Our conversations surrounded 1 TIM 2:9-15, and it's commandment(s) of GOD to the women of today's society and the world, on how they are to act in the (Brick and Mortar) Church.

As a teacher, would it not be better to share your interpretations (as I have) with those who are listening. It would be a shame to leave them hanging out there without letting them in on your interpretation as you alluded to when you was speaking to P.J. :" thanks pj but I think I will let it rest for the time being...maybe we can revisit it one day.

It is your choice, but it would be a shame to waste your God given talent?!

Either way, Our conversations have enlightened myself and I thank you.

Blade


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guest24

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Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #71 on: April 09, 2019, 07:42:43 am »
Lori, how can we not listen to what man says about God and scripture. Do you think that if you lived alone and stranded on an island, never heard of God or Jesus or the Bible before ever and then somebody dropped a Bible down. Could you read it and "figure everything out"? I've been reading this thread and I still don't know what your point is. What "answer" are you looking for and please state your purpose.







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Some years ago, God called me to study the word of God not the words of man who want to tell me who they think God is.  As a result (as per this thread) I studied this passage in Timothy and found some definite discrepancies between what it says and what man says it says.  As per one of many checks I put on my study I want to open that understanding to challenge.   So my goal is to discuss the discrepancies I found and discuss them in light of the totality of scripture, going off the idea that scripture interprets scripture.  I'm thinking that is never going to happen and so maybe it's time for this discussion to be done.
Maybe we could start with a list. Make a numbered list of the discrepancies between man's teaching and what the wscripture actually says. Take them one by one verse by verse.
thanks pj but I think I will let it rest for the time being...maybe we can revisit it one day..

Lori,, you said:"I studied this passage in Timothy and found some definite discrepancies between what it says and what man says it says. "

Our conversations surrounded 1 TIM 2:9-15, and it's commandment(s) of GOD to the women of today's society and the world, on how they are to act in the (Brick and Mortar) Church.

As a teacher, would it not be better to share your interpretations (as I have) with those who are listening. It would be a shame to leave them hanging out there without letting them in on your interpretation as you alluded to when you was speaking to P.J. :" thanks pj but I think I will let it rest for the time being...maybe we can revisit it one day.

It is your choice, but it would be a shame to waste your God given talent?!

Either way, Our conversations have enlightened myself and I thank you.

Blade

I was trying to share what I found and what I got was that relying on the HS to teach...allowing scripture to interpret scripture, etc. would only lead me away from God and His word.

Likewise, when I tried to present what I found, I was told I was wrong and nothing was offered as a reason why....I have a whole study done on it but it was part of a bigger study.  When I take the time to look up the study maybe I will pull out the parts that apply to this passage alone and see if that helps.  At the moment, I am tired of being told to shut up because I am a woman and thus I do not think I could discuss it calmly and with Love.....in time I will be able to discuss it calmly again but as I said, I was raised to believe that I had no right to speak and so when someone tries to take away my God given command to speak it sets me off.  Just be patient and I will be able to discuss it without emotions but I need a few moments.
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guest8

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Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #72 on: April 10, 2019, 11:13:10 pm »
Lori, thank you for your contribution to this tread. AS I believe it is of utmost importance for everyone to understand the WORD of GOD, I will continue posting on this topic.

Below, I have posted a video of John MacArthur of whom was asked:

"Dr. MacArthur, does scripture allow for women eldership as this is the direction of some of the churches today?"

Blade




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guest24

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Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #73 on: April 11, 2019, 07:55:52 am »
Lori, thank you for your contribution to this tread. AS I believe it is of utmost importance for everyone to understand the WORD of GOD, I will continue posting on this topic.

Below, I have posted a video of John MacArthur of whom was asked:

"Dr. MacArthur, does scripture allow for women eldership as this is the direction of some of the churches today?"

Blade



This is NOT helping your cause in that I would sight ever reason he gave for looking deeper at the discrepancies....in fact, from this video, look at I Corinthians 11:5 5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

Apparently the Timothy passage is disagreeing with the I Cor. passage?  Really?  Why would they disagree with one another?  And before you answer, remember that in your video, he spoke about how woman were not to have a ministry of prophesy...and in context of this passage the ministry of prophecy is the same as the men....and yet I Cor. says that when they do prophecy it is to be done in proper manner....which is what I am suggesting Timothy is saying...but that is another issue.
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guest8

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Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #74 on: April 11, 2019, 10:25:52 pm »
Lori, thank you for your contribution to this tread. AS I believe it is of utmost importance for everyone to understand the WORD of GOD, I will continue posting on this topic.

Below, I have posted a video of John MacArthur of whom was asked:

"Dr. MacArthur, does scripture allow for women eldership as this is the direction of some of the churches today?"

Blade



This is NOT helping your cause in that I would sight ever reason he gave for looking deeper at the discrepancies....in fact, from this video, look at I Corinthians 11:5 5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

Apparently the Timothy passage is disagreeing with the I Cor. passage?  Really?  Why would they disagree with one another?  And before you answer, remember that in your video, he spoke about how woman were not to have a ministry of prophesy...and in context of this passage the ministry of prophecy is the same as the men....and yet I Cor. says that when they do prophecy it is to be done in proper manner....which is what I am suggesting Timothy is saying...but that is another issue.

You said: "this is NOT helping your cause"  The only cause I have is bringing the WORD of GOD as it is written to those that are interested!

Lori, I thought you had quit for a while. Yes, this is defiantly nuclear, yet it needs to be brought forward, especially in this day and time. Having said that I will offer no personal opinion.

As I read the KJV version literally, I see every 'Jot' and 'Tittle' as the Word of God.  Most people today, because of their worldview, lifestyle read the Word of God as sort of a living document, one that enables the words written in ancient times to morph into words that can be followed by a 'post modern' society

I will say the words that John MacArthur spoke of are directly from the Bible, the Word of God. God tells us what He wants from us in very specific words just as He did to Israel those so many years ago.


I found this ancient/centuries-old poem in one of the  articles/books I have.  The words were carved in a gothic, medieval alphabet on a towering, ornate cathedral door right in the heart of a small town in Germany, thought to have been written around the 16th century. 

These words when translated into modern English, take the form of a poem that is terrifying to me.

***************

You call me eternal, then do not seek me.

You call me fair, then do not love me.

You call me gracious, then do not trust me.

You call me just, then do not fear me.

You call me life, then do not choose me.

You call me light, then do not see me.

You call me Lord, then do not respect me.

You call me Master, then do not obey me.

You call me merciful, then do not thank me.

You call me mighty, then do not honor me.

You call me noble, then do not serve me.

You call me rich, then do not ask me.

You call me Savior, then do not praise me.

You call me shepherd, then do not follow me.

You call me Way, then do not walk with me.

You call me wise, then do not heed me.

You call me Son of God, then do not worship me.

When I [sentence] you, then do not blame me. 


Blade




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guest24

  • Guest
Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #75 on: April 12, 2019, 08:23:50 am »
Lori, thank you for your contribution to this tread. AS I believe it is of utmost importance for everyone to understand the WORD of GOD, I will continue posting on this topic.

Below, I have posted a video of John MacArthur of whom was asked:

"Dr. MacArthur, does scripture allow for women eldership as this is the direction of some of the churches today?"

Blade



This is NOT helping your cause in that I would sight ever reason he gave for looking deeper at the discrepancies....in fact, from this video, look at I Corinthians 11:5 5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

Apparently the Timothy passage is disagreeing with the I Cor. passage?  Really?  Why would they disagree with one another?  And before you answer, remember that in your video, he spoke about how woman were not to have a ministry of prophesy...and in context of this passage the ministry of prophecy is the same as the men....and yet I Cor. says that when they do prophecy it is to be done in proper manner....which is what I am suggesting Timothy is saying...but that is another issue.

You said: "this is NOT helping your cause"  The only cause I have is bringing the WORD of GOD as it is written to those that are interested!

Lori, I thought you had quit for a while. Yes, this is defiantly nuclear, yet it needs to be brought forward, especially in this day and time. Having said that I will offer no personal opinion.

As I read the KJV version literally, I see every 'Jot' and 'Tittle' as the Word of God.  Most people today, because of their worldview, lifestyle read the Word of God as sort of a living document, one that enables the words written in ancient times to morph into words that can be followed by a 'post modern' society

I will say the words that John MacArthur spoke of are directly from the Bible, the Word of God. God tells us what He wants from us in very specific words just as He did to Israel those so many years ago.


I found this ancient/centuries-old poem in one of the  articles/books I have.  The words were carved in a gothic, medieval alphabet on a towering, ornate cathedral door right in the heart of a small town in Germany, thought to have been written around the 16th century. 

These words when translated into modern English, take the form of a poem that is terrifying to me.

***************

You call me eternal, then do not seek me.

You call me fair, then do not love me.

You call me gracious, then do not trust me.

You call me just, then do not fear me.

You call me life, then do not choose me.

You call me light, then do not see me.

You call me Lord, then do not respect me.

You call me Master, then do not obey me.

You call me merciful, then do not thank me.

You call me mighty, then do not honor me.

You call me noble, then do not serve me.

You call me rich, then do not ask me.

You call me Savior, then do not praise me.

You call me shepherd, then do not follow me.

You call me Way, then do not walk with me.

You call me wise, then do not heed me.

You call me Son of God, then do not worship me.

When I [sentence] you, then do not blame me. 


Blade

Actually I like the poem...I have often wondered why people follow worldly teachers rather than the Living God...but then again that seems to be what you are doing in that you push MacArthur rather than discussing with me the disagreements the Bible poses to what he teaches....for example..I presented a passage that talks about when woman prophecy which is the same prophesying the men are doing and all you did was some veiled attempt to shame me into disagreeing with MacArthur.....you can follow him if you want, but I want to follow the Living God which is why I brought this up at all.

guest24

  • Guest
Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #76 on: April 12, 2019, 08:45:48 am »
Let me tell you a funny story about MacArthur's teaching on this matter. 

Some time ago, my husband was pastoring a church in which two of the women were trying to run the church.  They were gossips, controlling, etc. woman that obviously were NOT living according to a yielded life to the living God.  They however, used MacArthur's teaching on the subject of woman to try to silence not only other woman who could teach them how to be a woman of God but to try to silence the men as well so that they could continue on their agenda.

What I am proposing the passage means would not be very easy to use in the same way.  In fact, what I am proposing it is teaching is that all people, both men and woman alike are to live in quietness and peace (in their behaviors) waiting patiently for God to open the doors He wants opened.  That would have instantly disqualified these two ladies....from trying to run the church, but because they used MacArthur's teaching they could weasel their way into various positions and in doing so take over the church.

Now I am NOT advocating that is a reason to accept how I understand the passage...please don't make the mistake of assuming that is what I am saying....what I am saying however, is that I believe that truth always holds up to challenge, so that would be just one more checks and balances to add to our careful study of the discrepensies between the teaching and the text.
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patrick jane

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Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #77 on: April 12, 2019, 09:33:08 am »
Let me tell you a funny story about MacArthur's teaching on this matter. 

Some time ago, my husband was pastoring a church in which two of the women were trying to run the church.  They were gossips, controlling, etc. woman that obviously were NOT living according to a yielded life to the living God.  They however, used MacArthur's teaching on the subject of woman to try to silence not only other woman who could teach them how to be a woman of God but to try to silence the men as well so that they could continue on their agenda.

What I am proposing the passage means would not be very easy to use in the same way.  In fact, what I am proposing it is teaching is that all people, both men and woman alike are to live in quietness and peace (in their behaviors) waiting patiently for God to open the doors He wants opened.  That would have instantly disqualified these two ladies....from trying to run the church, but because they used MacArthur's teaching they could weasel their way into various positions and in doing so take over the church.

Now I am NOT advocating that is a reason to accept how I understand the passage...please don't make the mistake of assuming that is what I am saying....what I am saying however, is that I believe that truth always holds up to challenge, so that would be just one more checks and balances to add to our careful study of the discrepensies between the teaching and the text.
I thought I basically said the same things about the verses.
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