Author Topic: The dangers of woman keeping silent... (Read 3149 times)

guest8 · « **Reply #104 on:** April 27, 2019, 01:23:08 am »

Quote from: Lori Bolinger on April 23, 2019, 07:53:18 am

Blade....I'm looking forward to you showing me in the study I did where I am missing not only the point of the passage but God and His word by allowing scripture to interpret scripture for me. Thank you in advance for the time to show me my error not just tell me I am in error.

Your question was put in one of your post which I have copied it here. You said: "So question I purposed we think about....I have something to think on while I am gone...if we understand I Tim the way these videos teach it, what does that tell the men about their authority in the church? More when I return...it's an interesting discussion.

As the Bride of Christ, the church is to take on the role of the wife in Ephesians 5...so when we are talking about men and the church, the men must (if the traditional understanding is correct) stop trying to run the church and usurp their own authority over that of Christ and be silent..

I had at one time brushed this off but after considerable research, have come back to it.

You are confusing the term "Bride of Christ" with that of a woman spoken of in 1 Tm 2:11; 1 Cor 14:34; 1 Tim 2:12.

The 'Bride of Christ' is patterned after the Jewish Wedding and as a prologue to the Rapture. The first step of the "Betrothal" is for the prospective groom to negotiate a price that must be paid for the Bride. We see this in the purchase of both Leah and Rachel with 14 years of work for payment. We also see this in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ as the purchase for the Bride(His Church).

Note: Once the purchase price was paid in full, the Groom and the Bride were considered in a marriage covenant, thus the Church (Body and Bride) of Jesus is a done deal.

To be true to the pattern, the Groom would leave to His father's house to prepare a place for the Bride which usually took a year to complete. The Bride during this time would prepare herself for marriage and gather her dowry. (1)

Did not Jesus tell us that He is leaving to His father's house to prepare a place for us? John 14:2

When the Groom returns for His wife to be with a "Shout". (1 Th 4:16).

**
Are the passages (1 Tim 2:11-12) we speak of obscure or straight forward.

According to Daniel Doriani, they have been traditionally interpreted in a straight forward manner. He says: "But suddenly, with the advent of modern feminism, many scholars have decided that these texts are obscure. Why has this happened? The texts did not change.”(2)

As C. S. Lewis once remarked, “We all want progress, but if you’re on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; in that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive.”(3)

Perceived clarity and purported certainty simply are not indicators of truth. (4)

It appears that both complementarians and egalitarians hold to the "obscure in light of clear" hermeneutical principle. "If basic rules of hermeneutics can be so easily set aside when it is theologically convenient, upon what grounds do such concessions stop?"(5)

“Gal 3:28 asserts that there is equality in the church, so women should be able to do everything men can do” (a common caricature propagated by critics of women pastors). Rather, the argument is, “Gal 3:28 asserts that there is inherently no sexism in the body of Christ, and forbidding women from doing certain activities [e.g., pastoring] solely because of their sex is sexist.”(6)

**
Where in the Bible is Scripture interpret Scripture:

2 Timothy 3:16 says, “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:”" If that is true, then it follows that all Scripture has one divine author even if it has many human authors" (7).

Yet, in John 20:31, gives the Book of JOHN purpose as it does all of scripture in the Bible. One could take all the prophecies of Christ from Entry into Jerusalem to His resurrection as scripture interpreting scripture.

During Creation, God rested on the seventh day. There is much about the amount of time each day contain yet in Exodus 20:8-11, these scripture define the 7th day as a 24 hour day.

Summary: I have looked at many different articles, concerning the interpretation of 1 TIM 2:11-12 and have listed some of them. For me, there is only one way to read these scripture as I feel they are not obscure in any form nor do any other scriptures force a different view on their meaning. They are straight forward and along with 1 Cor 14:34-35, they imply the commandments of Jesus exactly as they were written. If your hermeneutics consider the Literal, Historical and Grammatical text as the Word of GOD, as the Commands He left mankind to follow, you will adhere to the traditional viewpoints of this argument.

On the other hand if you interpret the WORD of GOD using a progressive agenda or world view, then these scriptures are obscure and hard to read and with other scriptures pulled from the Bible, allow the woman to do anything a man can do in the church.

The scriptures in this case, do not mean what they say but rather what one feels like they should say or whatever is relative. In this case, we need to throw the Bible away for every word in the Bible is then suspect to it correctness, etc.

Thank goodness, this is a personal decision to accept the Bible (KJV) as it says in 1 TIM 2:12.."But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

You in the end, regardless of what I say, the bereans say, your husband says, will have to answer for your own decision on this matter.

It is very clear that the Bride of Christ does not have anything to do with these passages but rather the coming Rapture of the Bride (His spiritual Church) is contrasted to a Jewish Wedding.

Lori, I have spent many hours on this and have tried to give you a sensible answer. I can do no more...It is time for you to make that decision. I will pray that you make the right one according to my interpretation.

Hope you have a lovely day tomorrow.

Blade

p..s say hi to your husband and I hope you bet him on that prophecy He made. Oh, well we know one thing, He is not a prophet or soothsayer!

[/shaddow]

1. http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/9290-ketubah

2. Grudem, Evangelical Feminism and Biblical Truth, 364.

3. C. S. Lewis, Mere Christianity, in The Complete C. S. Lewis Signature Classics (New York: HarperOne, 2002), 33.

4. For more on this important topic, especially as it relates to bibliology, see Carlos Bovell, Rehabilitating Inerrancy in a Culture of Fear (Eugene: Wipf & Stock, 2012); idem, Inerrancy and the Spiritual Formation of Younger Evangelicals (Eugene: Wipf & Stock, 2015); James Barr, Beyond Fundamentalism (Louisville: Westminster John Knox, 1984); Christian Smith, The Bible Made Impossible: Why Biblicism Is Not a Truly Evangelical Reading of Scripture (Grand Rapids: Brazos Press, 2012); N. T. Wright, Scripture and the Authority of God (New York: HarperOne, 2013); John Goldingay, Models for Scripture (Toronto: Clements, 2004); idem, Models for Interpretation of Scripture (Toronto: Clements, 2004); Craig Allert, A High View of Scripture? (Grand Rapids: Baker Academic, 2007); Peter Enns, The Sin of Certainty (New York: HarperCollins, 2016). For more on this topic in general, see Greg Boyd, Benefit of the Doubt: Breaking the Idol of Certainty (Grand Rapids: Baker, 2013).

5. Revisiting the Clarity of Scripture in 1 Timothy 2:12

6. ibid

7. Christian Answers to Two Roman Catholic Questions on “Catholic Answers”

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