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Author Topic: The dangers of woman keeping silent...  (Read 3089 times)

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guest8

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Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #91 on: April 15, 2019, 08:16:54 pm »
So question I purposed we think about....I have something to think on while I am gone...if we understand I Tim the way these videos teach it, what does that tell the men about their authority in the church?  More when I return...it's an interesting discussion.

As the Bride of Christ, the church is to take on the role of the wife in Ephesians 5....so when we are talking about men and the church, the men must (if the traditional understanding is correct) stop trying to run the church and usurp their own authority over that of Christ and be silent.   IOW's the men who claim to be in authority to run the local church have no excuse to assert their decisions over that of Christ.  In fact, in the early church, they made decisions based on everyone being in one accord, thus they were exercising the "silence" that men preach woman are instructed to have....how many churches do that today?  How many churches require a 100% vote before making any decisions?  How many men are silent before the HEAD of the CHURCH which is Christ?  Please show me even one.....now, isn't the head the example?  So if men cannot be silent before Christ, why are they so determined to force women or try to shame them into being silent before them, mere human beings?

Lori...it seems you cannot separate the (brick and Mortar) Churches and the spiritual church (Body/Bride) of Christ.

you said: "As the Bride of Christ, the church is to take on the role of the wife in Ephesians 5...."

Not even close!

Blade







guest24

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Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #92 on: April 16, 2019, 09:38:49 am »
So question I purposed we think about....I have something to think on while I am gone...if we understand I Tim the way these videos teach it, what does that tell the men about their authority in the church?  More when I return...it's an interesting discussion.

As the Bride of Christ, the church is to take on the role of the wife in Ephesians 5....so when we are talking about men and the church, the men must (if the traditional understanding is correct) stop trying to run the church and usurp their own authority over that of Christ and be silent.   IOW's the men who claim to be in authority to run the local church have no excuse to assert their decisions over that of Christ.  In fact, in the early church, they made decisions based on everyone being in one accord, thus they were exercising the "silence" that men preach woman are instructed to have....how many churches do that today?  How many churches require a 100% vote before making any decisions?  How many men are silent before the HEAD of the CHURCH which is Christ?  Please show me even one.....now, isn't the head the example?  So if men cannot be silent before Christ, why are they so determined to force women or try to shame them into being silent before them, mere human beings?

Lori...it seems you cannot separate the (brick and Mortar) Churches and the spiritual church (Body/Bride) of Christ.

you said: "As the Bride of Christ, the church is to take on the role of the wife in Ephesians 5...."

Not even close!

Blade

so you want to argue that Christ is NOT the head of the Church....NOT the head of the man...how strange since scripture clearly says He is.

Even in the brick and mortar church, Christ is to be the head, not man...are you, a man, willing to accept that teaching?  The same teaching you preach to woman?  How do you live out in the brick and mortar church, "being silent and in full submission"?  Give me examples of how you live this out with Christ the head.

guest8

  • Guest
Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #93 on: April 16, 2019, 09:05:44 pm »
So question I purposed we think about....I have something to think on while I am gone...if we understand I Tim the way these videos teach it, what does that tell the men about their authority in the church?  More when I return...it's an interesting discussion.

As the Bride of Christ, the church is to take on the role of the wife in Ephesians 5....so when we are talking about men and the church, the men must (if the traditional understanding is correct) stop trying to run the church and usurp their own authority over that of Christ and be silent.   IOW's the men who claim to be in authority to run the local church have no excuse to assert their decisions over that of Christ.  In fact, in the early church, they made decisions based on everyone being in one accord, thus they were exercising the "silence" that men preach woman are instructed to have....how many churches do that today?  How many churches require a 100% vote before making any decisions?  How many men are silent before the HEAD of the CHURCH which is Christ?  Please show me even one.....now, isn't the head the example?  So if men cannot be silent before Christ, why are they so determined to force women or try to shame them into being silent before them, mere human beings?

Lori...it seems you cannot separate the (brick and Mortar) Churches and the spiritual church (Body/Bride) of Christ.

you said: "As the Bride of Christ, the church is to take on the role of the wife in Ephesians 5...."

Not even close!

Blade

so you want to argue that Christ is NOT the head of the Church....NOT the head of the man...how strange since scripture clearly says He is.

Even in the brick and mortar church, Christ is to be the head, not man...are you, a man, willing to accept that teaching?  The same teaching you preach to woman?  How do you live out in the brick and mortar church, "being silent and in full submission"?  Give me examples of how you live this out with Christ the head.

Jesus Christ is always the head of any church including his and I will assume you meant a Bride when you was speaking about as you said: "As the Bride of Christ, the church is to take on the role of the wife in Ephesians 5.." though not really sure why you have tied this to Eph 5.

1 CO 11:3.."But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."

In the spiritual Church (body/Bride of Christ), Jesus is the head of all for all are one. Both you and I are no different in His church (Bride). However, in the (Brick and mortar) church we have to (or NOT) follow His rules, the rules of 1 Tim 2-3 and Titus.

Lori.... I am not pitting Men against women. I am just trying to follow the lord's Laws for us without changing, adding to them or removing from them anything.

If you cannot follow His laws, that is between you and Him. Good luck!

Blade


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guest24

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Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #94 on: April 17, 2019, 10:05:32 am »
Blade...I am talking about following the rules.  If Christ is the head of the Church and the head of man, and the brick and mortar church is part of the Big C Church, then there is no excuse, man must submit in silence to Christ just as they command woman using the Tim. passage, either that, or the interpretation they are preaching is wrong.

So, let's look once again at the totality of scripture and see what it says....The Church is the Bride of Christ... Ephs. 5
What we know about this is that whatever instruction is given to the wife is also given to the church....in fact, the husband is to Love the wife as Christ Loved the Church.  So Christ's Love for the church is a picture of how the husband is to Love the wife just as the wife who is in submission to her husband is a picture of how the church is to react to Jesus Love for her.

We also know that as the head of the man, Christ is the head of the church....it all goes back to Eph. again.  Like the man is the head of the woman, Christ is the head of the man and the Father is the head of Christ. 

So if we interpret I Tim. the way you are proposing, then, men have no right to speak in church or to teach anyone for Christ alone has that authority.  IOW's men must be silent, learning in quiet submission to the Head of man, that is to say Christ.

If on the other hand you interpret I Timothy as I found was consistent with the totality of scripture, what we see is that men are to work together with Christ with lives that are peaceable and gentle, meek, so that all can see the power of God in their lives...iow's not with flowery, convincing words but with the power of the Living God.
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Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #95 on: April 17, 2019, 04:08:43 pm »
I am a Johnny come lately to this discussion but there is somnething I have noticed about this verse:1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
Note the part I have bolded.  It is Paul that does not suffer these things.  As such I do not think this applies to the modern church.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2019, 12:25:07 pm by patrick jane »
June is Gay Pride Month.Tolerance and diversity? ☞ More like tolerate perversity.☠
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guest8

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Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #96 on: April 17, 2019, 07:00:59 pm »
I am a Johnny come lately to this discussion but there is somnething I have noticed about this verse:1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Note the part I have bolded.  It is Paul that does not suffer these things.  As such I do not think this applies to the modern church.


You do not think 1 tim 2 applies to the modern church? I think that is what you meant.

Your Choice and you already know the consequences of being wrong!

Blade

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guest24

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Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #97 on: April 18, 2019, 11:13:43 am »
I am a Johnny come lately to this discussion but there is somnething I have noticed about this verse:1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Note the part I have bolded.  It is Paul that does not suffer these things.  As such I do not think this applies to the modern church.

I have seen this teaching but I don't think I can buy it anymore than I can buy the interpretation Blade is presenting
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guest8

  • Guest
Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #98 on: April 18, 2019, 07:50:40 pm »
I am a Johnny come lately to this discussion but there is somnething I have noticed about this verse:1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Note the part I have bolded.  It is Paul that does not suffer these things.  As such I do not think this applies to the modern church.

I have seen this teaching but I don't think I can buy it anymore than I can buy the interpretation Blade is presenting

Well at least my teaching is on authority of GOD's WORD not mine. 1 TIM 2:12 "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

Those are Jesus's Words not mine. There is only one interpretation to it, HIS interpretation.

If you want to disagree with HIM fine as that a decision only you can make.

The problem is, you are only going to get ONE Decision..... You either believe the Bible is His WORD and He says what He means and Means what He says or You do not!

Blade
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guest24

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Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #99 on: April 19, 2019, 07:46:57 am »
I am a Johnny come lately to this discussion but there is somnething I have noticed about this verse:1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Note the part I have bolded.  It is Paul that does not suffer these things.  As such I do not think this applies to the modern church.

I have seen this teaching but I don't think I can buy it anymore than I can buy the interpretation Blade is presenting

Well at least my teaching is on authority of GOD's WORD not mine. 1 TIM 2:12 "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

Those are Jesus's Words not mine. There is only one interpretation to it, HIS interpretation.

If you want to disagree with HIM fine as that a decision only you can make.

The problem is, you are only going to get ONE Decision..... You either believe the Bible is His WORD and He says what He means and Means what He says or You do not!

Blade

Blade...I presented the study I did where I allowed scripture to interpret scripture for us and you didn't make any comments at all to show where I missed what scripture is telling us...why?  If I am wrong and if scripture does NOT clarify God's intended meaning, why do you refuse to show me where I missed the mark?
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guest8

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Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #100 on: April 19, 2019, 11:20:57 am »
I am a Johnny come lately to this discussion but there is somnething I have noticed about this verse:1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Note the part I have bolded.  It is Paul that does not suffer these things.  As such I do not think this applies to the modern church.

I have seen this teaching but I don't think I can buy it anymore than I can buy the interpretation Blade is presenting

Well at least my teaching is on authority of GOD's WORD not mine. 1 TIM 2:12 "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

Those are Jesus's Words not mine. There is only one interpretation to it, HIS interpretation.

If you want to disagree with HIM fine as that a decision only you can make.

The problem is, you are only going to get ONE Decision..... You either believe the Bible is His WORD and He says what He means and Means what He says or You do not!

Blade

Blade...I presented the study I did where I allowed scripture to interpret scripture for us and you didn't make any comments at all to show where I missed what scripture is telling us...why?  If I am wrong and if scripture does NOT clarify God's intended meaning, why do you refuse to show me where I missed the mark?

alright, let me go back a reread you post to see if I missed something.

Blade
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guest24

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Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #101 on: April 22, 2019, 11:57:03 am »
Blade....I'm looking forward to you showing me in the study I did where I am missing not only the point of the passage but God and His word by allowing scripture to interpret scripture for me.  Thank you in advance for the time to show me my error not just tell me I am in error.
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guest8

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Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #102 on: April 22, 2019, 10:06:35 pm »
Blade....I'm looking forward to you showing me in the study I did where I am missing not only the point of the passage but God and His word by allowing scripture to interpret scripture for me.  Thank you in advance for the time to show me my error not just tell me I am in error.

Just a wee-bit condescending don't you think? "Those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still" Dale Carnegie.

So, why should I try.... For those who are not so hard set against GOD's WORD!

Have a good day!

My reply will forthwith!

Blade
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guest24

  • Guest
Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
« Reply #103 on: April 23, 2019, 07:53:18 am »
Blade....I'm looking forward to you showing me in the study I did where I am missing not only the point of the passage but God and His word by allowing scripture to interpret scripture for me.  Thank you in advance for the time to show me my error not just tell me I am in error.

Just a wee-bit condescending don't you think? "Those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still" Dale Carnegie.

So, why should I try.... For those who are not so hard set against GOD's WORD!

Have a good day!

My reply will forthwith!

Blade

I have been keeping my husband updated on this discussion since he and I talk a lot about the topic as per what scripture really does teach...he predicted you would not address the study I did and try to show me where I got it wrong...his theory is that men refuse to do so because they are looking for an excuse to justify their own sins. 

As to condescending..I do not know why you would say such a thing given it was a genuine thank you.  I have been trying to get someone other than my husband to discuss it with me and I became over excited I guess....which I guess you read as condescending.....sorry you took my excitement as condescending but disappointed that you refuse to show me where I got it wrong.
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