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Author Topic: something curious...  (Read 1033 times)

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Lori Bolinger

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something curious...
« on: April 05, 2021, 09:28:23 am »
In a discussion, I was in about trinity something curious came up...I would like to hear you alls thoughts on it but I do NOT want another of the proof text debates about trinity so please curb your insistence to make this about more arguing over the same old tired passages and address what this tells us or what you make of it.



In Gen. we are told that God made man in HIs image...that would be for those that have trouble sometimes, in God's own image. Genesis 1:27

Then in Philippians 2, God made Jesus in man's image...why the difference?  and does I Corinthians 15:49 have anything to do with the reason for the difference? Philippians 2:7



Curious...very curious....

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Mr E

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Re: something curious...
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2021, 04:14:59 pm »
In Genesis we tend to think of a particular person-- named Adam as who was created by God, rather than "man" or "mankind" or "human" or "humanity" in  a generic sense.  The mixing of terms and the proper name causes some of the confusion, but it might help you sort through it if everywhere you read "man" you consider it in the broader sense of the root word (not name) adam... or earth-man.

Philippians 2 really is curious because in speaking about Christ Jesus it mentions how he existed in the form (shape) of God did not see equality with God a thing to be grasped.  God is spirit. To exist in the shape of God refers to that 'spiritual' existence that man was made in the image of-- the spiritual man, made in the image of the spiritual Father.

And like the spiritual man is in the "form" of the spiritual Father, the physical man is the "appearance" (image) of that.  If you could see somehow the invisible "shape" of God-- this is what it would look like in appearance (morph)  -like an outline of a kind of thing you cannot see... a type of...

1 Cor 15 spells this all out specifically- this dual nature, one spiritual man and the other physical (earthy) man.  They are not the same.  They are distinct one from another in that the one is elemental (of earth) and then the other is breathed into that vessel.  And one (the spiritual) is of a higher order than the other-- the form of the one, not regarding equality with the other something to be grasped.

So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;  it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;  it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.  So also it is written, “The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.  However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.  The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven.  As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly.  Just as we have borne the image of the earthy,  we will also bear the image of the heavenly.

Lori Bolinger

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Re: something curious...
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2021, 11:23:18 am »
I'm not sure how that answers the question but thanks.

Bladerunner

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Re: something curious...
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2021, 09:29:48 pm »
In Genesis we tend to think of a particular person-- named Adam as who was created by God, rather than "man" or "mankind" or "human" or "humanity" in  a generic sense.  The mixing of terms and the proper name causes some of the confusion, but it might help you sort through it if everywhere you read "man" you consider it in the broader sense of the root word (not name) adam... or earth-man.

Philippians 2 really is curious because in speaking about Christ Jesus it mentions how he existed in the form (shape) of God did not see equality with God a thing to be grasped.  God is spirit. To exist in the shape of God refers to that 'spiritual' existence that man was made in the image of-- the spiritual man, made in the image of the spiritual Father.

And like the spiritual man is in the "form" of the spiritual Father, the physical man is the "appearance" (image) of that.  If you could see somehow the invisible "shape" of God-- this is what it would look like in appearance (morph)  -like an outline of a kind of thing you cannot see... a type of...

1 Cor 15 spells this all out specifically- this dual nature, one spiritual man and the other physical (earthy) man.  They are not the same.  They are distinct one from another in that the one is elemental (of earth) and then the other is breathed into that vessel.  And one (the spiritual) is of a higher order than the other-- the form of the one, not regarding equality with the other something to be grasped.

So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;  it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;  it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.  So also it is written, “The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.  However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.  The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven.  As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly.  Just as we have borne the image of the earthy,  we will also bear the image of the heavenly.

Very good answer..Mr. E

The Bible is a collection of patterns. In Gen 1, GOD made man in His own image.  Was this man (ADAM) of Flesh and Bone and bathed in LIGHT? For after the resurrection this is what Jesus was and it will be what we are to be according to 1 John 3:2. Adam the first man and Jesus the Last Adam.

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
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Mr E

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Re: something curious...
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2021, 10:10:55 pm »
I'm not sure how that answers the question but thanks.

Can I simplify?  Sure.

God is Spirit.  The man made in the image of the Spiritual Father, is the spiritual man.  (Son of God)

Jesus is flesh.  The man made in the image of the earth-man (adam) physical father is flesh (physical).  (Son of man)
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patrick jane

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Re: something curious...
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2021, 11:42:02 pm »
Franklin Graham reacts to Biden omitting 'God' from National Day of Prayer



Biden is the first president to omit the word God from proclamation; Reverend and Samaritan's Purse President weighs in


5 minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zsz0NBaA0lk

patrick jane

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Re: something curious...
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2021, 05:32:18 pm »
 >:(

Bladerunner

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Re: something curious...
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2021, 09:27:59 pm »
>:(

more people will be saved during Daniel's 70th week  than any other time in history according to the Jesus and His Word, the Bible.

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
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patrick jane

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Re: something curious...
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2021, 09:36:11 pm »
>:(

more people will be saved during Daniel's 70th week  than any other time in history according to the Jesus and His Word, the Bible.

Blade
Good news !!!

Bladerunner

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Re: something curious...
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2021, 09:42:48 pm »
>:(

more people will be saved during Daniel's 70th week  than any other time in history according to the Jesus and His Word, the Bible.

Blade
Good news !!!

Curiously they are called the 'elect'

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
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patrick jane

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Re: something curious...
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2021, 07:43:00 am »
In a discussion, I was in about trinity something curious came up...I would like to hear you alls thoughts on it but I do NOT want another of the proof text debates about trinity so please curb your insistence to make this about more arguing over the same old tired passages and address what this tells us or what you make of it.



In Gen. we are told that God made man in HIs image...that would be for those that have trouble sometimes, in God's own image. Genesis 1:27

Then in Philippians 2, God made Jesus in man's image...why the difference?  and does I Corinthians 15:49 have anything to do with the reason for the difference? Philippians 2:7



Curious...very curious....
Posted by Tambora on Theology Forums


Rabbi Simeon ben Jochai (lived in 1st and 2nd century) wrote a fascinating passage recorded in the Zohar that is as clear a discussion of the mystery of the Trinity as you could find in any Christian theology text. Rabbi Simeon comments on the text found in Deuteronomy 32:39: "See now that I, I am he, and Elohim is not with me."

He said: "Friends, here are some profound mysteries which I desire to reveal to you now that permission has been given to utter them. Who is it that says, 'See now that I, I am He?' This is the Cause which is above all those on high, that which is called the Cause of causes. It is above those other causes, since none of those causes does anything till it obtains permission from that which is above it, as we pointed out above in respect to the expression, 'Let us make man.' 'Us' certainly refers to two, of which one said to the other above it, 'Let us make,' nor did it do anything save with the permission and direction of the one above it, while the one above did nothing without consulting its colleague.

But that which is called 'the Cause above all causes,' which has no superior or even equal, as it is written, 'To whom shall ye liken me, that I should be equal?' (referring to Isaiah 40:25), said, 'See now that I, I am he, and Elohim is not with me,' from whom he should take counsel, like that of which it is written, 'and God said, Let us make man.'"



How can they (the three) be One? Are they verily One, because we call them One ?
How Three can be One, can only be known through the revelation of the Holy Spirit.

- Zohar, vol. ii. p. 43, versa., 22.




Come and see the mystery of the word hwhy, Jehova: there are three steps, each existing by itself; nevertheless they are One, and so united that one cannot be separated from the other.

- Zohar, vol. iii. Amsterdam edition. 65




The Ancient Holy One is revealed with three Heads, which are united in One, and that Head is thrice exalted. The Ancient Holy one is described as being Three; it is because the other Lights emanating from Him are included in the Three. Yet the Ancient One is described as being two. The Ancient One includes these two. He is the Crown of all that is exalted; the Chief of the chief, so exalted, that He cannot be known to perfection. Thus the other lights are two complete ones, yet is the Ancient Holy One described complete as one, and He is one, positively one; thus are the other lights united and glorified in because they are one.

- Zohar, vol. iii. Amsterdam edition. 288





A book written by Rabbi Simeon ben Jochai, known as The Propositions of the Zohar, records the mystery of the Shechinah glory of God in these words.

. . . the exalted Shechinah comprehends the Three highest Sephiroth; of Him (God) it is said, (Ps. lxii. 12), "God hath spoken once; twice have I heard this." Once and twice means the Three exalted Sephiroth, of whom it is said: Once, once, and once; that is, Three united in One. This is the mystery.

- Rabbi Simeon ben Jochai, The Propositions of the Zohar, cap. 38, Amsterdam edition. 113



Another famous Jewish scholar, Rabbi Eliezer Hakkalir, who lived at the time of Rabbi Simeon ben Jochai, also taught the scriptural doctrine that there were three distinct Beings revealed in the one unified Godhead. In his commentary on Genesis 1:1, Rabbi Hakkalir wrote the following:
When God created the world, He created it through the Three Sephiroth, namely, through Sepher, Sapher and Vesaphur, by which the Three twywh (Beings) are meant . . . The Rabbi, my Lord Teacher of blessed memory, explained Sepher, Sapher, and Sippur, to be synonymous to Ja, Jehovah, and Elohim meaning to say, that the world was created by these three names.

Ted T.

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Re: something curious...
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2021, 11:15:08 am »
In Gen. we are told that God made man in HIs image...that would be for those that have trouble sometimes, in God's own image. Genesis 1:27Then in Philippians 2, God made Jesus in man's image...why the difference? ..



For me, image is all about relationships...who can we relate to as someone who is just like us? That "who we are" is called our image. And the ultimate relationship we can have with other is called marriage so for us to be in HIS image is to say we are suitable marriage partners.


For Christ to be made our image is to say that we can relate to Him, His suffering and His love and to know that He can relate to our sinfulness and suffering.
Wheat are NOT reborn / regenerate tares !!!

Matt 13:36-43  ...Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

38 the field is the world
good seed are of the kingdom sown by the Son of man
tares are of the wicked one 39 sown by the devil


Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Lori Bolinger

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Re: something curious...
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2021, 12:01:53 pm »
In Gen. we are told that God made man in HIs image...that would be for those that have trouble sometimes, in God's own image. Genesis 1:27Then in Philippians 2, God made Jesus in man's image...why the difference? ..



For me, image is all about relationships...who can we relate to as someone who is just like us? That "who we are" is called our image. And the ultimate relationship we can have with other is called marriage so for us to be in HIS image is to say we are suitable marriage partners.


For Christ to be made our image is to say that we can relate to Him, His suffering and His love and to know that He can relate to our sinfulness and suffering.

How can you relate to the One who took our sin upon Himself as well as the sin of the whole world?

 

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