Author Topic: Parables of Jesus bit by bit (Read 7536 times)

guest24 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 15, 2021, 03:21:22 pm »

Quote from: Mr E on May 15, 2021, 11:44:32 am

In teaching what we have come to call 'the beatitudes' he is presenting ideas that create a contrast between those ideas and the things the people have been taught. He presents all the 'Blessed are...' statements and then he immediately launches into an exposé on the law of Moses and in doing so he is incriminating those experts in the law that he mentions- the Scribes and Pharisees who were viewed as the top of the heap in all things religious. They were the lawyers and judges-- think in terms of the judicial system, and more! From the perspective of the Jewish people living under this system, those same leaders were also law enforcement in the most literal sense of the term. They kept the law, administered it, enforced it, interpreted it, added to it when they saw fit, judged using it, sentenced with it and upheld it to the fullest. And, though the people including those leaders were under Roman rule, it was these religious leaders who controlled society wielding religious authority as granted by Rome to maintain order. In exchange Rome propped up their power and it was through the temple organization that taxes were collected and with every exchange of dollars political influence increased and corruption abounded. That's just how it works. That's how it worked then, and that's how it works now. Money, bankers, politics, lawyers, judges, law enforcement, and religion.

Jesus come along and draws a distinction....it's NOT the law, or keeping the law, or administering the law, or making laws that make you right before God. It's not riches or power that demonstrate whom the Father has blessed...

“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
“Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
“Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth.
“Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
“Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
“Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
“Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
“Blessed are you when people insult you and persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me.
“Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

You are the salt... the law is NOT the salt. Those scribes and Pharisees are not the salt.

You are the light... the law is NOT the light. Those scribes and Pharisees are not the light.

At the end of this you said the exact same thing I did but then argue with me over what I said?

Why? What does that gain you? The parable of the sower is calling the disciples the salt of the earth, not the law as you claimed above. So what are you disagreeing with me about if you think that the law is not the salt...you are making no sense at all.

guest125 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 15, 2021, 07:50:54 pm »

Be careful? lol okay.

Lori

Where did I disagree with you? What I said was- "I think you nailed it Lori."

You have an argumentative spirit. That is your nature. This observation too, you will argue against. It's okay, I'm used to it and expect nothing but.

My whole point was in agreement with you. Nowhere did I say (as you've twice now insisted) that the law was the salt. I said the opposite, so you can cool yer jets or continue on your merry way- did you actually want a discussion and folks to contribute to it, or would you rather not? I'm happy to oblige.

It's one thing to understand what he said and another to understand why he said it. If you miss the contrast he casts between those humble in spirit, pure in heart, gentle and so on versus those law experts, you miss the purpose of the parable.

patrick jane · « **Reply #15 on:** May 15, 2021, 08:07:48 pm »

patrick jane · « **Reply #16 on:** May 15, 2021, 11:39:22 pm »

Franklin Graham reacts to Biden omitting 'God' from National Day of Prayer

Biden is the first president to omit the word God from proclamation; Reverend and Samaritan's Purse President weighs in

5 minutes

patrick jane · « **Reply #17 on:** May 15, 2021, 11:43:48 pm »

Quote from: patrick jane on May 15, 2021, 11:39:22 pm

Franklin Graham reacts to Biden omitting 'God' from National Day of Prayer

Biden is the first president to omit the word God from proclamation; Reverend and Samaritan's Purse President weighs in

5 minutes

Unreal.

guest24 · « **Reply #18 on:** May 17, 2021, 08:10:57 am »

Quote from: Mr E on May 15, 2021, 07:50:54 pm

Be careful? lol okay.

Lori

Where did I disagree with you? What I said was- "I think you nailed it Lori."

You have an argumentative spirit. That is your nature. This observation too, you will argue against. It's okay, I'm used to it and expect nothing but.

My whole point was in agreement with you. Nowhere did I say (as you've twice now insisted) that the law was the salt. I said the opposite, so you can cool yer jets or continue on your merry way- did you actually want a discussion and folks to contribute to it, or would you rather not? I'm happy to oblige.

It's one thing to understand what he said and another to understand why he said it. If you miss the contrast he casts between those humble in spirit, pure in heart, gentle and so on versus those law experts, you miss the purpose of the parable.

I objected to you saying that parable of the salt wasss about the law when as I pointed out Jesus called the disciples salt not the law and asked you to prove the salt was the law...if you were not trying to say the salt was the law then all you had to do was say I misunderstood what your point was...but you see, by you ignoring my question about where you see Jesus calling the law salt, you are the one who is asking for argument...but no matter, I will take the blame even if it does NOT fit, it's called love.

Now back to point. When I say I am looking at it bit by bit, it means that we are not yet to the point about the law. We haven't even talked about the disciples being the light of the world yet and what that means. So in effect you are asking me to ignore my study to look deeper into the parables in exchange for arguing with you over the law. If you want to talk about the law, start a thread and invite me...if you want to talk about how the parable in question addresses the law, start a thread and invite me. We will get to the rest of the passage, but when I say bit by bit I mean I am digging deeper into it and am presenting what I find a little at a time so we can discuss the deeper things as they come up...at this point, the law has not come into the study at all.

So if I am argumentative by asking you to show me where Jesus calling the disciples the salt is Him calling the law the salt, then tell me what it is that you want to discuss that is off topic of the construct of the thread so I am at least on board with what it is you are trying to argue with me over.

guest24 · « **Reply #19 on:** May 17, 2021, 09:12:37 am »

against my better judgment since there is so much controversy over who is the salt of the earth, here is the next BIT

When I study quickly like I am doing here and then go back over it, I find things I missed that I want to add it, one of those was who can lose their saltiness, the parable of the sower seemed to be the best choice for this answer and I put it here for review. There is much much more in this parable but I think it best to circle back to it as we make our way through the parables and so this part is solely about who fits into the group of the salt of the earth and nothing more.

How does one lose their saltiness? If we look at the parable of the sower, (Matthew 13:1-30) we see four different kinds of people. The four groups of people are 1. Those that hear the word of God, His call on their lives but reject it. In essence, the unbelievers. This group would not apply to the disciples and thus we will circle back to it when we really dig into this parable. The second group is those that hear God’s calling on their lives and believe but are not watered or rooted in the word thus quickly die. It could be argued that Judas fit this category but in light of this passage, Luke 22:3 and John 13:27 it seems more likely to me that Judas fit into the third group. 3. This is the group that believes and grows but is thrown by every difficult situation. These are those that trouble pulls away from the faith through worry and the belief that God wants to make all their life a bed of roses. In Matthew 13:36-43 we see that it is the troubles that are sown by the evil one...which is why it is vitally important for the believer to know the schemes of satan and how to combat them, to know how scripture says to avoid being deceived, and to continue to grow in the faith (trust) of God by building their trust muscle according to God’s word. It is when we fail in these things that we too can lose our saltiness and thus become worthless. The last group, 4. Are those that remain faithful and growing in faith.

Now just a quick side note. Jesus is definitely speaking to the disciples in the parable of the salt but I believe from context and totality of scripture it is referring to all true believers thus these words of causation should be taken seriously by all of us. More to come on this great parable as we move through the parables. There are some great things in this that we should talk about and incorporate into our daily lives.

guest24 · « **Reply #20 on:** May 17, 2021, 04:17:56 pm »

Light of the world…
Matthew 5:14 “You are the light of the world. A city situated on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 No one lights a lamp and puts it under a basket, but rather on a lampstand, and it gives light for all who are in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine[c] before men, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father in heaven.

   When I first began to look into the parable of the Light of the World, I thought it would go one way and in fact, it went a totally different direction from what I expected. So let’s first touch base on what light in scripture means. The first thing we want to talk about is that Jesus is the light. This is the most important part of this parable and we will go into more details about that in a moment. (John 8:12; John 1:4; John 12:46; John 5:26; Luke 2:32; Isaiah 42:6; I John 2:8; Acts 26:23; II Corinthians 4:6; John 1) When we follow Him, we are walking in the light rather than the darkness. (John 8:12; Romans 13:12) The problem is that man likes darkness more than he likes light. (Job 24:13-16; John 3:19-21) As we follow Christ, we become children of light and as such need to walk as if we are. (Ephesians 5:
   Light exposes what is hidden in darkness. (Luke 8:17; Matthew 10:26; Mark 4:22; Luke 12:2; Proverbs 20:27) Light also keeps us from stumbling. (Job 12:25) Light is also a guide. (Psalm 43:3; Psalms 119:105) But light also gives us understanding to those without experience.(Psalms 119; 130) Interestingly enough, teaching can and is also a light. (Proverbs 6:23) Light is so important to our world and to our walk with Christ and can only be found in Christ.
   So what then is Jesus telling the disciples in Matthew 5:14-16 when He calls them the light of the world? Well, first, He is calling them His followers, those that are reflecting His light to others. This is important because as we see in John 9:5, Jesus was not always going to be here on this earth to shine the light into the darkness thus showing men (both Jew and Gentile) the way of salvation. Thus the disciples were to become the sons of the light. (John 12:36) {again, where Jesus is directly speaking to the disciples I do believe this teaching is for us today as well}
   Matthew 5:14-16 starts out by calling the disciples the light of the world. As we just saw in John 9:5 it was an important job that Jesus would not be able to continue to do on this earth, He needed ambassadors to continue the work. (II Corinthians 5:20; Colossians 1:24) If salvation was going to be made available for all people, someone needed to show those in the darkness how to live in the light. They became the city on the hill, the picture of Zion yet to come. (Isaiah 62:1)
   Then Jesus explains why His light is within the true believers, why they are given the Holy Spirit. Because light is used to give all men (and women) guidance, to keep them from stumbling, and to reveal what is hidden in the darkness so that they too can live in the light of Christ. The early church was a persecuted church. They needed the power of the Holy Spirit to live out the light that they had been given by Christ as sons of God. So in order to live in the power of the Holy Spirit as a light to the world, the disciples had to allow themselves to live out the truth openly (II Corinthians 4:1-11) by renouncing hidden things, give up dishonesty, to avoid walking in the craftiness, not handle the word of God deceitfully, and to manifest the truth in the sight of God. They live in open display of the truth through knowledge of God’s glory in the face of the Lord Jesus Christ. It was by giving themselves over to death, that they were able to show the light that brings life. They were focused on the unseen rather than the seen, the eternal rather than the temporal and in that, they became the light to the world. They were to be the light to the house of Israel as well as the Gentiles. In living in the light, they were showing the good works of Christ that others might give glory to God as well.
   The light comes from our hearts, (Matthew 6:21-23) so they were to proclaim this light not only in good works, not just in enduring persecution but in how they lived what they taught, with boldness. They needed to guard themselves from the darkness that might be hidden. (Luke 11:34-36; II Corinthians 11:14) It was a life that was to be lived in boldness. (I Corinthians 4:5) There is so much more we can talk about when talking of the light, but let us touch on two last things, Frist the fruit of the light is goodness, righteousness, and truth, (Ephesians 5:9) it is also justice. (Isaiah 51:4) Finally, let us talk about why living as a light to the world is so important. Consider what Habakkuk 3:4 tells us about the light of God. Habakkuk 3:4 (HCSB) His brilliance is like light; rays are flashing from His hand. This is where His power is hidden. The power of God is hidden within the light of Christ. A light that is available to all true believers.

guest125 · « **Reply #21 on:** May 18, 2021, 11:05:09 am »

Thank you for deciding to love me rather than argue. I think that if you abide in love, we could have a good discussion- but you'll have to resist the urge to take offense at everything I say. It's not "IF" I wasn't trying to say the salt was the law.... It's SINCE I didn't say that. You are correct in saying that you objected to me saying the parable was ABOUT the law. It is. -And that's what you objected to. It's about the law and yes, those who follow the law and keep the law and administer the law VERSUS those he was speaking to-- his followers. If you miss the fact that he is casting a stark contrast, you miss the whole point. -Kind of important.

Quote from: Lori Bolinger on May 17, 2021, 08:10:57 am

I objected to you saying that parable of the salt wasss about the law when as I pointed out Jesus called the disciples salt not the law and asked you to prove the salt was the law...if you were not trying to say the salt was the law then all you had to do was say I misunderstood what your point was...but you see, by you ignoring my question about where you see Jesus calling the law salt, you are the one who is asking for argument...but no matter, I will take the blame even if it does NOT fit, it's called love.

What Jesus is saying-- if you want to review those Beatitudes again, is that the law just ain't good enough. It ain't tough enough... doesn't go nearly far enough. He is instructing his disciples (beyond the twelve-- all who claim to follow his teachings) that following all the rules and regulations are fine and good, but to what end? You can follow every jot and tittle--- in modern vernacular- 'dot every i, and cross every t' and keep every point of the law to the finest detail and it's worth nothing, because you have a rotten, stinkin' attitude. You can never sleep with another person, yet still be an adulterer because you lust in your heart. You can never kill or strike another person, but still be a murderer because you are full of hate-- DESPITE keeping the law and all it's ordinances. His point is the law is inadequate. The haughty Pharisees are the proof--- they major in every minor point and fail where it counts-- in their heart.

You (followers of mine) are the salt.... not them. So too you followers of mine are the light... not them, he taught. Elsewhere he called them blind guides leading the blind again in contrast to those who have that spirit of God that the Father gives- that holy spirit called the word of the Father within them. As you quoted from Ps 119-- 'Thy word is the lamp unto my feet and the light unto my path' and the word of the Father that became flesh in him is the same word that becomes flesh in the soil of every man (here is where the sower parable comes to life) "I am the light" he said... "You are the light" he also said.

guest24 · « **Reply #22 on:** May 18, 2021, 11:35:08 am »

Quote from: Mr E on May 18, 2021, 11:05:09 am

Thank you for deciding to love me rather than argue. I think that if you abide in love, we could have a good discussion- but you'll have to resist the urge to take offense at everything I say. It's not "IF" I wasn't trying to say the salt was the law.... It's SINCE I didn't say that. You are correct in saying that you objected to me saying the parable was ABOUT the law. It is. -And that's what you objected to. It's about the law and yes, those who follow the law and keep the law and administer the law VERSUS those he was speaking to-- his followers. If you miss the fact that he is casting a stark contrast, you miss the whole point. -Kind of important.

sometimes, I worry that I am misunderstanding someone that continues to insist on one thing when I have asked them to clarify, like when I asked you to point out where salt was referring to the law and you insisted on talking about the law beyond the parameters of the OP...so when I can, I ask my husband or son (whoever is available) to tell me what I missed in the poster's post...this time I asked my husband and he understood you the exact same way I did...he had no idea how what you said related to what I said nor my asking you for clarification...last time I checked, asking for clarification was an act of love, meaning you were loved long before you even attempted to love me in this situation...but no worries, I am used to it from you.

Quote

Quote from: Lori Bolinger on May 17, 2021, 08:10:57 am
I objected to you saying that parable of the salt wasss about the law when as I pointed out Jesus called the disciples salt not the law and asked you to prove the salt was the law...if you were not trying to say the salt was the law then all you had to do was say I misunderstood what your point was...but you see, by you ignoring my question about where you see Jesus calling the law salt, you are the one who is asking for argument...but no matter, I will take the blame even if it does NOT fit, it's called love.

What Jesus is saying-- if you want to review those Beatitudes again, is that the law just ain't good enough. It ain't tough enough... doesn't go nearly far enough. He is instructing his disciples (beyond the twelve-- all who claim to follow his teachings) that following all the rules and regulations are fine and good, but to what end? You can follow every jot and tittle--- in modern vernacular- 'dot every i, and cross every t' and keep every point of the law to the finest detail and it's worth nothing, because you have a rotten, stinkin' attitude. You can never sleep with another person, yet still be an adulterer because you lust in your heart.

where does the beatitudes talk about adultery? I think you are confusing the law with the beatitudes which are talking about who is and who is not blessed and it is upside down from the world's understanding of who is blessed...but I will wait and see if you Love me enough to clarify your assertions by showing me where in the beatitudes it talks about adultery.

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You can never kill or strike another person, but still be a murderer because you are full of hate-- DESPITE keeping the law and all it's ordinances. His point is the law is inadequate. The haughty Pharisees are the proof--- they major in every minor point and fail where it counts-- in their heart.

no contest on the law, what I want to know is where in the beatitudes you are seeing Jesus talking about adultery and murder, etc.

Quote

You (followers of mine) are the salt.... not them. So too you followers of mine are the light... not them, he taught. Elsewhere he called them blind guides leading the blind again in contrast to those who have that spirit of God that the Father gives- that holy spirit called the word of the Father within them. As you quoted from Ps 119-- 'Thy word is the lamp unto my feet and the light unto my path' and the word of the Father that became flesh in him is the same word that becomes flesh in the soil of every man (here is where the sower parable comes to life) "I am the light" he said... "You are the light" he also said.

did you even read the study I did and what I said, cause it sounds like you didn't Love me enough to read the OP before going off on some tangents that make good fodder for arguments.

guest125 · « **Reply #23 on:** May 18, 2021, 12:13:04 pm »

This tells me that you don't want to study. You want to teach.

If you can read Matthew 5 and ask the questions you are asking, you simply aren't qualified to teach.

21 “You have heard that 12 the ancients were told, ‘YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER’ and ‘Whoever commits murder shall be 13 liable to the court.’ 22 “But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be 14 guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, ‘15 You good-for-nothing,’ shall be 16 guilty before 17 the supreme court; and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be 18 guilty enough to go into the 19 fiery hell. 23 “Therefore if you are presenting your 20 offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your 21 offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your 22 offering. 25 “Make friends quickly with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way, so that your opponent may not hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 “Truly I say to you, you will not come out of there until you have paid up the last 23 cent.
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY’; 28 but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 “If your right eye makes you 24 stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you 25 to lose one of the parts of your body, 26 than for your whole body to be thrown into 27 hell. 30 “If your right hand makes you 28 stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you 29 to lose one of the parts of your body, 30 than for your whole body to go into 31 hell.
31 “It was said, ‘WHOEVER SENDS HIS WIFE AWAY, LET HIM GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE’; 32 but I say to you that everyone who 32 divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a 33 divorced woman commits adultery.

guest24 · « **Reply #24 on:** May 18, 2021, 12:33:16 pm »

Quote from: Mr E on May 18, 2021, 12:13:04 pm

This tells me that you don't want to study. You want to teach.

If you can read Matthew 5 and ask the questions you are asking, you simply aren't qualified to teach.

21 “You have heard that 12 the ancients were told, ‘YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER’ and ‘Whoever commits murder shall be 13 liable to the court.’ 22 “But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be 14 guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, ‘15 You good-for-nothing,’ shall be 16 guilty before 17 the supreme court; and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be 18 guilty enough to go into the 19 fiery hell. 23 “Therefore if you are presenting your 20 offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your 21 offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your 22 offering. 25 “Make friends quickly with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way, so that your opponent may not hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 “Truly I say to you, you will not come out of there until you have paid up the last 23 cent.
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY’; 28 but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 “If your right eye makes you 24 stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you 25 to lose one of the parts of your body, 26 than for your whole body to be thrown into 27 hell. 30 “If your right hand makes you 28 stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you 29 to lose one of the parts of your body, 30 than for your whole body to go into 31 hell.
31 “It was said, ‘WHOEVER SENDS HIS WIFE AWAY, LET HIM GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE’; 32 but I say to you that everyone who 32 divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a 33 divorced woman commits adultery.

so once again you condemn me because you cannot answer the most basic questions from the passage...so sad, where is your Love for me? Our study here ends at the moment of this discussion with the parable of the salt of the earth...it begins with the beatitudes which you claimed were teaching the law...I asked you to show me where in the beatitudes it says anything about adultery or murder, so let me quote the passage to the point of this discussion and you highlight for me the part that talks about the law.

Since I am anxious to learn all I can I am looking forward to you showing me the law in this part of the passage which is all that the first study dealt with

5 When He saw the crowds, He went up on the mountain, and after He sat down, His disciples came to Him. 2 Then[a] He began to teach them, saying:

The Beatitudes
3 “The poor in spirit are blessed,
for the kingdom of heaven is theirs.
4 Those who mourn are blessed,
for they will be comforted.
5 The gentle are blessed,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Those who hunger and thirst for righteousness are blessed,
for they will be filled.
7 The merciful are blessed,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 The pure in heart are blessed,
for they will see God.
9 The peacemakers are blessed,
for they will be called sons of God.
10 Those who are persecuted for righteousness are blessed,
for the kingdom of heaven is theirs.

11 “You are blessed when they insult and persecute you and falsely say every kind of evil against you because of Me. 12 Be glad and rejoice, because your reward is great in heaven. For that is how they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Believers Are Salt and Light
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt should lose its taste, how can it be made salty? It’s no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled on by men.

guest125 · « **Reply #25 on:** May 18, 2021, 03:10:48 pm »

Nah... not gonna play your silly game Lori. You can flip and flop. You can cut and paste. You can mince, slice and dice... but-

THE PASSAGE-- the whole chapter, the beginning, the salt, the light, and everything that follows is given to highlight the difference between those that follow his teaching and those that follow those teachers of the law. This and every parable. "You have been taught.... BUT I SAY...."

The things you've claimed I said, what? Five times now? -I never said. I never said the beatitudes were the law. I never said the law was the salt.

I said the PASSAGE-- the whole thing... is ABOUT the law. If you can't see it you can't see it. And if you don't see it what it's about, why do you presume to teach others about things you don't see, much less understand? You don't see because you won't look. You don't understand because you won't consider.

So it is.

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