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Author Topic: How did you arrive at your current Theological stance?  (Read 3596 times)

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Jon Wood

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Let's ramble a little, I'm 67 so I'm entitled.

I was saved by means of an [American] gospel magazine, in my own home...but it was dramatic. One moment I did not know God, the next I did, one moment I had no concept of the Holy Spirit, the next I was overflowing with His joy and power, one moment I did not understand a jot of the bible, the next it was an open book to me.

I read the KJV through 3 times in the first 18 months...then read the RSV and the Living through. I still read at least a chapter a day, sometimes more....above all else I am a bible lover, I hate to see the twistings that go on, that's my bible, the much loved word of my Lord.

I am finicky as heck about which theologians or teachers I listen to, Corrie ten Boom and T.L.Osborn whose magazine it was through who I was saved settled me in my faith....I moved away from T.L.'s faith based theology [as indeed HE did in his later years] toward the more stable grace teachings of C.H.Spurgeon...though I rejects much of Calvinism. I love Joseph Prince.

I believe the full Pentecostal whack because I got the full Pentecostal whack...my great sadness has been that until quite recently the Pentecostals themselves had fallen far behind and so fellowship was difficult...I sat at the back of large assemblies longing for revival.

I have stood with a few ministers in establishing little evangelical enterprises and have seen souls saved and lives turned around...great miracles. I rarely do the upfront stuff, but I am known in certain circles...have preached in the open air and seen souls saved, preached in London's Hyde Park. :)

There I rambled a little...there is but a scratching on the surface of all that God has done for me...I love Him and trust Him come what may.   

Thanks for sharing that with us BE, iíd Like to hear a little more about your transition between faith based and grace based theology one day. A good many of the church goers in my family are Pentecostal and I know very little about the denomination. Of course, I donít have a lot of study invested in any particular belief system in Christianity, so thereís that lol.
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guest9

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I was wondering this about others today. Iím Closest to an open view because I chose to try and strip as close to bare bones as I could when I came back to God. I wanted to learn as if I knew nothing except basic morality, and the Love of God through Christ and the Spirit. Because everything the local churches had been (while I ran from God) was more biased toward politics and focusing more on condemnation of others, than it was about showing others how to come to Christ. Iím really in the beginning stages of learning and most of my study is on my own while I pray to understand necessary passages in Godís own time. I also study on another forum that I like because there are a variety of different viewpoints presented and I feel that it reminds me to cut my own bias and assumptions from my studies.
I don't think one size fits all concerning spiritual progress, your path may not coincide with others journey nor should it.

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Jon Wood

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Quote from: Zeke link=topic=22.msg211#msg211 date=
I don't think one size fits all concerning spiritual progress, your path may not coincide with others journey nor should it.
[/quote
True, one size fits all, does not fit all well. There are people progressing easily on a path I personally would have found incredibly difficult, if not nearly impossible.
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patrick jane

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Let's ramble a little, I'm 67 so I'm entitled.

I was saved by means of an [American] gospel magazine, in my own home...but it was dramatic. One moment I did not know God, the next I did, one moment I had no concept of the Holy Spirit, the next I was overflowing with His joy and power, one moment I did not understand a jot of the bible, the next it was an open book to me.

I read the KJV through 3 times in the first 18 months...then read the RSV and the Living through. I still read at least a chapter a day, sometimes more....above all else I am a bible lover, I hate to see the twistings that go on, that's my bible, the much loved word of my Lord.

I am finicky as heck about which theologians or teachers I listen to, Corrie ten Boom and T.L.Osborn whose magazine it was through who I was saved settled me in my faith....I moved away from T.L.'s faith based theology [as indeed HE did in his later years] toward the more stable grace teachings of C.H.Spurgeon...though I rejects much of Calvinism. I love Joseph Prince.

I believe the full Pentecostal whack because I got the full Pentecostal whack...my great sadness has been that until quite recently the Pentecostals themselves had fallen far behind and so fellowship was difficult...I sat at the back of large assemblies longing for revival.

I have stood with a few ministers in establishing little evangelical enterprises and have seen souls saved and lives turned around...great miracles. I rarely do the upfront stuff, but I am known in certain circles...have preached in the open air and seen souls saved, preached in London's Hyde Park. :)

There I rambled a little...there is but a scratching on the surface of all that God has done for me...I love Him and trust Him come what may.
Awesome, Billy. I just now saw this, I'm sorry I missed it. Amen that we can't tell all the things God does in us and in our lives. I feel that God has me right where I'm supposed to be. Never really felt this before. I've been saved since childhood when I heard and believed and trusted.

Went to Catholic school and church everyday and became quite familiar with the mass and the teachings. Left in 4th grade. Grew older into 12 and 13 and began smoking and drugs.  Fast Forward to about the age of 42 and I got back in the word after never really reading iit to begin with in my life.

My cousin gave me a NIV Study Bible and I loved it, used it and read it The book was so big though I had to read it on a table. I like laying down and reading and a perfectly timed mishap from a childhood friend caused him to leave behind a small NT KJV red letter leather pocket type Bible.

The scriptures came alive like never before in the King James. For once in my life I read something other than M, M, L and John. I read Paul's letters and Acts and the everything made sense. I was a Pentecostal for several years and my mother's side of my family are Pentecostal. Mostly Assembly of God.

I'm glad you came here Billy and like I said, if you don't post much that's ok just don't forget about me over here lol. I have much more to say but I really liked your story.
Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins, the gospel of our salvation, and repenting, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


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Jon Wood

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Weíre all kind of products of our environment, itís the way we decide to interact with it that sets us apart. I like understanding what influenced others to become who they are.
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Bladerunner

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I was brought up in a Baptist Church with a grandfather as a Baptist preacher in the family. As we lived in another state, we attended a Baptist church in another city. My Grandfather and his church was two states away. Needless to say, I left the Church  we attended when I as 14 and have never been back. I did not abandon Jesus but I could not stand to stay in a church where there was so much deception going on by so-called 'saved' Christians.  It has only gotten worse in todayís churches.  Several years later an event happened with one of my father friends that eventually brought me closer to GOD. This is one reason , why I profess I am a Calvinist  at least in partial terms. I do believe that 'once saved, always saved' but I DO NOT believe in "Carnal Christians"

Your either saved or your are not!  I say this as I was ?saved? in a little Baptist Church at a very young age (5-6).   I have become to realize this was  a "knee jerk" reaction to my grandmothers prodding as she was a very godly lady and wanted for me to be saved.

My younger years, while I was not a law breaker, I did push the limits just as far as I could get them.
By all accounts, I should have died many times over those years as I was pushing those limits. Then one day, an event (a calling) for me and one other person (another story) came from God in a dream. Shortly thereafter, sitting on a stump on my farm, I found Jesus for the first time even though I had known Him for years. Since that time, my days and nights are SO different. I awake everyday with my eyes to heaven and my head in the Bible or teachings wherever I can find them. Operating heavy equipment during the daytime, I most of the time can listen to teachings by scholars via ipod that I keep downloaded with new material. Thus, I will spend most days at least 16 hours or more listening to the glory and WORD of GOD.

Let us review a part of the Calvinist view:

Accordingly, each of us TRUE Christians are Ďpredestinedí and Ďcalledí thus Ďjustifiedí by GOD Himself(Rom 8:29-30). He tells us He foreknew us and  I often asked.myself...did He know that I would walk down to the pulpit at that young age. YES.. DID He know that I would leave the Church not to return YES!  Did He know WHY? YES

Since, as Jesus says, I was predestined, then I believe now I was somewhat protected from harm until I was Ďcalledí or it sure does seem that way. As I stated earlier, I should have died several times looking back on those years, I could have turned bad and I mean real bad so easy after I left the church, yet I did not. Of, course meeting the love of my life in HS also helped as she has been keeping me on the straight and narrow for some 49 years.

As I said: many years ago, I was called and became saved (for certain)  in God's Church, a pasture.

Since that time, I have found out just how little I know about GOD's WORD but have also come to believe that the more I read the Bible, the more literal I get as each reading brings a blessing of something I had not known before. I try my best to pass this along.  I hope this helps someone understand there is a plan for everyone one of us TRUE CHRISTIANS.

Blade

1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
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joechan82

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I was introduced to Jesus by a fellow Marine. He took about a half an hour and showed me that I was a sinner, why I was a sinner, and what happens to sinners. I knew that all of it was true. Then he showed me that Jesus paid for our sins. Three weeks later, after going to church a few times, listening to my friend witness to me, and laying in bed at night scared to death, I asked the Lord to save me. And He did. Just like that!
I only went to the Episcopal church on Easter with my mom and sister prior to that, so I had no theology. The guy who lead me to Christ was a Baptist so that is where I went. I was baptized the next Sunday and that made it official. :) That was over 40 years ago. After a lot of church history and doctrine study I am still a Baptist, but now I know why. Funny old thing.
BTW C. H. Spurgeon is my favorite preacher to read. He was a Calvinist, but he is not a typical Calvinist. That man knew his God.
I have a pretty good idea what a MAD Dispensationalist is, but I cannot understand what Open Theists are. I tried to read their statement on TF. I tried. Somebody help this old man.
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Bladerunner

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I was introduced to Jesus by a fellow Marine. He took about a half an hour and showed me that I was a sinner, why I was a sinner, and what happens to sinners. I knew that all of it was true. Then he showed me that Jesus paid for our sins. Three weeks later, after going to church a few times, listening to my friend witness to me, and laying in bed at night scared to death, I asked the Lord to save me. And He did. Just like that!
I only went to the Episcopal church on Easter with my mom and sister prior to that, so I had no theology. The guy who lead me to Christ was a Baptist so that is where I went. I was baptized the next Sunday and that made it official. :) That was over 40 years ago. After a lot of church history and doctrine study I am still a Baptist, but now I know why. Funny old thing.
BTW C. H. Spurgeon is my favorite preacher to read. He was a Calvinist, but he is not a typical Calvinist. That man knew his God.
I have a pretty good idea what a MAD Dispensationalist is, but I cannot understand what Open Theists are. I tried to read their statement on TF. I tried. Somebody help this old man.

are you familiar with Arminianism?  It is the opposite of Calvinism as they still believe that God allows MAN to have free will to accept or reject HIM. They simply do not believe in predestination The open Theology is a runoff from that. It is a silly argument to me but then that is my opinion. God is not forcing us to accept HIM, but rather has foreseen who will accept him and He does everything He can do to make sure that happens including saving my but many times in those early years.

The free-will people do not believe Rom 8:29-30. This is pretty clearly stated and I feel God will have something to say about their not believing His scripture. Whether it will affect their salvation, I do not know as there is some dispute on this point.

My post shows why I believe in Predestination. God in eons past  saw me, Blade and knew that I would seek Him. He then set my heart right at the right time. I still had the free will at that time to seek HIM or NOT. Bringing this information forward to when we are actually living on earth, Jesus knows everyone, etc. He also knew that on a certain day, I would raise my face to heaven and ask Him to come into my heart and become my savior. 

He also knows those that will not accept him, that have rejected Him (and I am getting close to the line here) during their lifetimes. You have seen some of these people on atheist forums, etc. that simply do not believe in anything except mankind.

Hope this helps.

Blade

1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
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Jon Wood

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are you familiar with Arminianism?  It is the opposite of Calvinism as they still believe that God allows MAN to have free will to accept or reject HIM. They simply do not believe in predestination The open Theology is a runoff from that. It is a silly argument to me but then that is my opinion. God is not forcing us to accept HIM, but rather has foreseen who will accept him and He does everything He can do to make sure that happens including saving my but many times in those early years.

The free-will people do not believe Rom 8:29-30. This is pretty clearly stated and I feel God will have something to say about their not believing His scripture. Whether it will affect their salvation, I do not know as there is some dispute on this point.

My post shows why I believe in Predestination. God in eons past  saw me, Blade and knew that I would seek Him. He then set my heart right at the right time. I still had the free will at that time to seek HIM or NOT. Bringing this information forward to when we are actually living on earth, Jesus knows everyone, etc. He also knew that on a certain day, I would raise my face to heaven and ask Him to come into my heart and become my savior. 

He also knows those that will not accept him, that have rejected Him (and I am getting close to the line here) during their lifetimes. You have seen some of these people on atheist forums, etc. that simply do not believe in anything except mankind.

Hope this helps.

Blade

I think the main point of open theism is to say that not all outcomes are always predetermined, and that we are followers of Jesus because we want to be, not because He knows that we would. I guess iím Not a traditional representation of an open theist either, because I can see some of the arguments for Calvinism in a way that I understand and agree with as well.

I think I donít fully fall into either of the two categories in a traditional sense. To a traditional open theist, Calvinists seem like they are saying that God is just up there playing army men all day. To a traditional Calvinist, an open theist sounds like they are saying that God has no control over anything.

Like many arguments in theology that Iíve run across, most of the points of contention are actually the extremist view on either side and/or a misunderstanding of terminology. If you pay close enough attention, both sides agree with each other more than you would think they do, (except the extremists)
« Last Edit: August 11, 2018, 12:50:22 pm by Jon Wood »
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joechan82

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Yes Blade,
I have been called an Arminian more than once. I found an old confession of faith once that was Arminian. I think it was actually a document put out by the Dutch government a few centuries ago. I read it and discovered that I do indeed believe a lot of it. My departure from all that is that I am convinced of the eternal security of the believer. In a nutshell, since God saved us, then we cannot un-save us. We talk a lot about rightly dividing, but some dividing is just dividing. I'm with Jon on this. If the Bible says we have to call upon Him, then do that. If the Bible describes the sovereignty and foreknowledge of God then I believe that too. It's not God's fault I can't figure it all out. :) I can post scripture to support everything I believe. I want to know how to defend my positions, or change them if I am wrong. All the best to y'all.
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Bladerunner

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are you familiar with Arminianism?  It is the opposite of Calvinism as they still believe that God allows MAN to have free will to accept or reject HIM. They simply do not believe in predestination The open Theology is a runoff from that. It is a silly argument to me but then that is my opinion. God is not forcing us to accept HIM, but rather has foreseen who will accept him and He does everything He can do to make sure that happens including saving my but many times in those early years.

The free-will people do not believe Rom 8:29-30. This is pretty clearly stated and I feel God will have something to say about their not believing His scripture. Whether it will affect their salvation, I do not know as there is some dispute on this point.

My post shows why I believe in Predestination. God in eons past  saw me, Blade and knew that I would seek Him. He then set my heart right at the right time. I still had the free will at that time to seek HIM or NOT. Bringing this information forward to when we are actually living on earth, Jesus knows everyone, etc. He also knew that on a certain day, I would raise my face to heaven and ask Him to come into my heart and become my savior. 

He also knows those that will not accept him, that have rejected Him (and I am getting close to the line here) during their lifetimes. You have seen some of these people on atheist forums, etc. that simply do not believe in anything except mankind.

Hope this helps.

Blade

I think the main point of open theism is to say that not all outcomes are always predetermined, and that we are followers of Jesus because we want to be, not because He knows that we would. I guess iím Not a traditional representation of an open theist either, because I can see some of the arguments for Calvinism in a way that I understand and agree with as well.

I think I donít fully fall into either of the two categories in a traditional sense. To a traditional open theist, Calvinists seem like they are saying that God is just up there playing army men all day. To a traditional Calvinist, an open theist sounds like they are saying that God has no control over anything.

Like many arguments in theology that Iíve run across, most of the points of contention are actually the extremist view on either side and/or a misunderstanding of terminology. If you pay close enough attention, both sides agree with each other more than you would think they do, (except the extremists)

There is a difference in Predestined and Foreknown. Of course, God is in complete control. He predestined people because He knew in advance what they would do. Jon, he knew when and where you were going to give your heart to him. All He did was make the conditions right so that when you exercised your free-will to accept him as your savior, it would happen. You cannot force someone to love you and He is smart enough to know that.

There are those that believe they have the free-will to turn away from GOD after they have been saved. I disagree with this point in that Jesus tells us a number of times that He will lose one who His father has given him. They therefore were not saved in the beginning.

So, the bottom line is, if you are one who knows without a doubt that they are in the Body of Christ, you were one of those that were predestined before the beginning of Heavens and the earth. Gen 1:1.

Blade







1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
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Jon Wood

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[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=22.msg296#msg296 date=

There is a difference in Predestined and Foreknown. Of course, God is in complete control. He predestined people because He knew in advance what they would do. Jon, he knew when and where you were going to give your heart to him. All He did was make the conditions right so that when you exercised your free-will to accept him as your savior, it would happen. You cannot force someone to love you and He is smart enough to know that.

There are those that believe they have the free-will to turn away from GOD after they have been saved. I disagree with this point in that Jesus tells us a number of times that He will lose one who His father has given him. They therefore were not saved in the beginning.

So, the bottom line is, if you are one who knows without a doubt that they are in the Body of Christ, you were one of those that were predestined before the beginning of Heavens and the earth. Gen 1:1.

Blade
[/quote]

I totally understand what you are saying here Blade. I guess, by the time Iíve entered discussions between Calvinists and Open Theists, the topic has already devolved into a bickering match between the extreme representatives of those viewpoints. I have a hard time seeing why anybody who is truly a follower of Christ would want to leave the fold in the first place so I see your points. Iíve come and left before and I can see how maybe I could not have been as sincere as I thought I had been at the time. Iím glad to have had this talk with you and to see that your viewpoint actually works hand in hand with my own. We donít always get to have productive talks like this when we get so caught up in trying to prove the other guy wrong.
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Sasha

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are you familiar with Arminianism?  It is the opposite of Calvinism as they still believe that God allows MAN to have free will to accept or reject HIM. They simply do not believe in predestination The open Theology is a runoff from that. It is a silly argument to me but then that is my opinion. God is not forcing us to accept HIM, but rather has foreseen who will accept him and He does everything He can do to make sure that happens including saving my but many times in those early years.

The free-will people do not believe Rom 8:29-30. This is pretty clearly stated and I feel God will have something to say about their not believing His scripture. Whether it will affect their salvation, I do not know as there is some dispute on this point.

My post shows why I believe in Predestination. God in eons past  saw me, Blade and knew that I would seek Him. He then set my heart right at the right time. I still had the free will at that time to seek HIM or NOT. Bringing this information forward to when we are actually living on earth, Jesus knows everyone, etc. He also knew that on a certain day, I would raise my face to heaven and ask Him to come into my heart and become my savior. 

He also knows those that will not accept him, that have rejected Him (and I am getting close to the line here) during their lifetimes. You have seen some of these people on atheist forums, etc. that simply do not believe in anything except mankind.

Hope this helps.

Blade

I think the main point of open theism is to say that not all outcomes are always predetermined, and that we are followers of Jesus because we want to be, not because He knows that we would. I guess iím Not a traditional representation of an open theist either, because I can see some of the arguments for Calvinism in a way that I understand and agree with as well.

I think I donít fully fall into either of the two categories in a traditional sense. To a traditional open theist, Calvinists seem like they are saying that God is just up there playing army men all day. To a traditional Calvinist, an open theist sounds like they are saying that God has no control over anything.

Like many arguments in theology that Iíve run across, most of the points of contention are actually the extremist view on either side and/or a misunderstanding of terminology. If you pay close enough attention, both sides agree with each other more than you would think they do, (except the extremists)

Open Theism also draws forth a term that undermines human lens.

Open.  If taken to the full literal, the ďOpenĒ Theist is prone to not posture, but learn, grow and perpetually develop, without ďClosingĒ theology or having a cup so full, that it can no longer be filled.

Ironically, this means ďOpenĒ Theist commentary would be mere ponderings along a path of development that would change with ďtimeĒ.

Constantly Developing is a better way to word this.  I believe someone once said that and I genuinely appreciated their saying it.
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August 19, 2019, 04:46:42 pm

JOHN 11:25 THE RESURRECTION by doug
August 19, 2019, 08:38:19 am

Your Favorite Music, Images and Memes by MichaelC
August 18, 2019, 05:27:19 pm

Transpocalypse Upon Us by patrick jane
August 18, 2019, 05:32:49 am

MOVED: Revelation - Last Days by patrick jane
August 17, 2019, 06:44:36 am

The ONLY Way to Truly Understand The Bible // RIGHTLY DIVIDING by patrick jane
August 16, 2019, 11:13:52 pm