patrick jane forums

Lori--you are all over the map on this.  The one thing you haven't done is say what you actually think.

oiy vey....I have been clear about what I believe....you must not be reading it very well.

  A couple of posts back you were entertaining the idea that cherub bones had been found, that looked like pteredactyls or some such nonsense.

lol...actually what I said was that I found the article interesting and didn't know what to make of their assertions....

  You've insisted, or certainly implied that you believe that cherubim were among the people to the extent that people were familiar with them because they interacted, and that is why no description or design was needed for the gold-covered carvings on the ark of the covenant.

yes, I believe that the generation of Moses must have seen cherubim...it would explain how they all knew what cherubim looked like as well as explaining why a detailed description was not given 

The discussion (keeping context is important to reading comprehension) was whether they were real beings or symbolic only...to which I replied that they were physical beings in that they exist literally but that they are also there to teach us something spiritual...not sure why you can't figure that out.

It's a simple question and I didn't even limit you to picking one or the other.

You'll have to explain this>>> "I never once said that I believe that angels are flesh but rather physical in nature meaning that they are real creatures."

What do you mean by 'not flesh', rather 'physical in nature meaning real creatures' ?

not sure how I can explain it any clearer....I do Not believe that cherubim as flesh and blood like man is, but I do believe they are literal beings...a good example comes straight out of scripture and the resurrected Christ...He was NoT flesh and blood in the resurrected body but He was a being none the less.  Same principle applies to what I am and have been saying to you this whole time....why can't you understand it?

That's what flesh means... it means physical creatures.

And "real living beings" applies to both living physical beings as well as living spiritual beings.

If I understand you then-- you believe that they are NOT flesh (not physical) and that they are real living (spiritual) beings.  Do I have you correctly?  You could have provided that by marking "B" on my original question concerning the nature of angels.

no you don't have me right but you didn't even try to respond to my clarification so that would be a good reason why you don't understand.

Let's skip the human nature question for a moment and hit on the last bit...

IF as you say, angels are only spiritual beings, then there is no 'flesh part' and they are created by God as spirit only, then as messengers from God to mankind they travel in spirit, and appear only in spirit. 

so instead of talking about cherubim, you now want to change the discussion to what a spirit looks like....this is largely the problem, you keep changing the topic without warning.

I will say the same thing I told someone else long ago.  WE do NOT know what a spirit "looks" like but we do know that in scripture, physical descriptions are given for that which is spirit, for example, God is spirit and yet there are descriptions of Him and even His clothes...does that mean that spirit looks like air?  probably not but it also doesn't tell us what spirit looks like.

The image of them, that Moses had made would have had to have been either given to him as design, or it was based on his own idea of what they looked like-- which was either given to him, or which he had seen himself in spirit (that is in such as a vision of these spiritual beings)

But then you completely contradict yourself by saying>>>> "Scripture seems to say they are....physical beings that also teach us spiritual truths."

if you don't think we can learn anything from the symbollism of the cherubim I don't know what to tell you, that is what parables do and they are all over scripture.

You say--- "are they flesh?  -obviously not, since that goes against what scripture says about them"

Then you say--- "Are they real living beings?  Scripture seems to say they are....physical beings that also teach us spiritual truths..."


So what distinction is it that you are making between the following?  Please define:

A. Flesh
B. Physical beings
C. Living beings
D. Spiritual beings

This will help us get on the same page.  Also if you could reference the scriptures you say that determine they are not flesh, and also the ones that say they are physical beings.

Like i said, cherubim are not flesh and blood like man is but they are literal beings with spiritual purpose...not sure how I can be any clearer.