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freelight

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Divine Science - New Thought Christianity
« on: September 21, 2018, 09:43:05 pm »
Greetings all,

This will be a charter-thread for discussing the basics of what we may call 'Metaphysical Christianity' within the 'New Thought' movement ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Thought ), which focuses more on the inner esoteric meaning of biblical terms, principles and ideas involving the direct relationship and unity of 'God' with 'Man', concerning that 'science' (knowledge) of spiritual law and principles which affects his experience, and how man engages those laws of mind and spirit.

A good portion of some 'New Thought' and 'Religious Science' teachings deals with healing and prosperity which are natural to those who live within the law of supply and divine abundance, a provision more consciously accessible to those who by conscious union with God and practice of the 'presence of God', amplify and bring such abundance and provision into their own experience, whereas by the same law, some may bring a mentality of poverty into their lives by focusing on 'lack'. This is the basic principle underlying the more recent popularity of the 'law of attraction', although this principle can be variously interpreted if not convoluted unless properly understood and contextualized.

In any case a precursory and fundamental understanding of some of the essential tenets of 'New Thought' is essential here ( http://www.newthoughtwisdom.com/about-new-thought.html#new-thought ), but I'm beginning this thread with a nuance more towards the school of 'Divine Science' founded by Malinda Elliot Cramer ( http://www.newthoughtwisdom.com/malinda-cramer.html ) and the Brooks sisters in the late 19th century, since I resonate with such 'metaphysically' speaking and became a DSG (divine science graduate) thru an online correspondence with a minister friend some years back, so am familiar with the principles.

See:

Divine Science - http://divinescience.com
School of Divine Science - http://dsschool.org

Below is an audio-reading of Malinda Cramer's 'Lessons in the Science of Infinite Spirit', - some may find the robot voice less appealing, but if one bypasses such and listens to the essential ideas being communicated, it shall be well, or one can access some of Malinda's writings here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1p7vr2eBos

A small website on 'spiritual science' I did some years ago for any interested is here ( https://spiritual-science.webs.com )

------

Divine Science Fundamentals -

Life is Continuous.

It proceeds from Divine Life, which is Good in all its manifestations.
There is only one Power in the Universe, the Power we call God.
There is no evil except that which is man-made.
The normal state of man is abounding health.
The Divine Purpose is to express the Joy of Life.

Divine Science Statement of Being

God is all, both invisible and visible.
One Presence, One Mind, One Power is all.
This One that is all is perfect life, perfect love, and perfect substance.
Man is the individualized expression of God and is ever one with this
perfect life, perfect love, and perfect substance.

Foundational Truths

The foundation truth of Divine Science is that limitless Being, God [Good], is equally present everywhere and is the ALL of everything. God is pure Spirit, absolute, changeless, eternal, manifesting in all creation. "God is everywhere, therefore God is here. What God is is everywhere, therefore what God is is here."--Nona Brooks. The logical conclusion is that there can be no other presence than God-presence; no other power than God-power; no other knowledge than God-knowledge. ---Divine Science Textbook, p. 28

If Good is omnipresent, what becomes of evil? What happens to the darkness which fills a room when the light is turned on? The darkness does not move out and go somewhere else, it simply does not exist in the presence of light. Darkness is not a reality, it is merely the absence of light. In the same way when the individual thought is centered upon the omnipresence of good, evil thought does not move out and continue to exist elsewhere; it simply becomes nonexistent. Evil has no reality within itself; it can have existence only so long as an individual supports it by his belief in it. ---Divine Science Textbook, p. 30-31

------------

As per my usual custom of engaging a subject in the spirit of 'creative dialogue', this will include an objective/subjective exploration of the subject done civilly as discovering any meaning or significance of the ideas, concepts or principles stated. Since the founders of this particular branch of 'New Thought' decided to call their ministry the 'School of Divine Science', this refers to the 'knowledge' of 'God' in his absolute reality, which includes his omnipresence, omniscience, omnipotence as the One Power and Presence. This 'unity-consciousness' is that which subsides at the heart of all life, so its fundamental truth is prior to any duality, division, contradiction or conflict, since 'God' is 'One', and in the view of omnipresence, 'God' is ALL.

Much in this discussion will also bring up other teachers within New Thought, as we share on the principles of 'spiritual science', the knowing of 'God' as SPIRIT, and this knowledge naturally pervading the consciousness of all, since again we come back to the truth of OMNIPRESENCE.

I would ask that any enjoining the discussion stay on topic, and while discussing such use such meditation upon the subject as a meditation on the very spirit-presence of 'God' within their own being, to allow that 'light of consciousness' and 'divinity' shine thru, to be shared as an insight-stream into the dialogue-flow. This way, all can contribute to the 'concert' of 'God' as an instrument in his symphony, to bring forth the beautiful music of his Spirit, in thought, word and deed. In this way, we co-operate and co-create with spirit to share logos inspired by love and wisdom, so all participants are edified thereby. With this sentiment I ask that respect for the subject be granted. I'll preside over the thread to ensure that its purpose and intentions are kept in the proper channels.

-----------

I have an older 'Divine Science' based forum here with related schools & teachings - http://divinescience.free-forums.org/index.php
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 10:15:30 pm by freelight »
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patrick jane

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Re: Divine Science - New Thought Christianity
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2018, 08:46:34 am »
When I get time I plan to come back to this thread.   ;)



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Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection, the gospel of our salvation, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -
Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins, the gospel of our salvation, and repenting, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -

Disclaimer:  This project and content is being made available for religious, political & social activism, teaching, educational and research purposes. This material is being made available within this transformative and/or derivative work for the purposes of education and activist commentary and criticism and is believed to be "Fair Use" in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107.
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freelight

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Re: Divine Science - New Thought Christianity
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2018, 12:10:57 pm »
~*~*~

Excellent,....its just a way to look at the spiritual laws of thought, form and substance, - how our minds can 'know' and 'apply' the 'science' of Spirit, since all creation is born out of Spirit.

Spirit is life, and this life appears to have consciousness which includes all forms.

In this infinite Spirit, consciousness has its own frequencies, qualities, or 'inherencies'....so that when knowing such the mind can conform itself with such knowledge and rightly apply it, the mind affirming the fundamental truth of Spirit, its essence, qualities and attributes,....its law of expression. Then we can rightly use our 'minds' to re-turn and align ourselves with Source, its creative will, intent and purpose of creation.

Divine Science affirms that right NOW,  is the fullness of omnipresence, so that the allness, abosluteness and infinity of 'God' is ever-present....in toto.  'God' right this moment and in all moments of existence is the Sole Absolute, - all else is relative of course.

It is the creative play of individual mind within Universal Mind that most New Thought schools explore and expound upon, regarding man's success and enterprise in all areas of life.

One Love  One Power. One Presence.


~*~*~

Alan Anderson has a wonderful resource nexus on what he calls 'Process New Thought' which blends elements of Process Philosophy/Theology with New Thought Metaphysics. Index Page of various articles -

http://ppquimby.com/alan/index.htm




-------
« Last Edit: October 04, 2018, 12:13:07 pm by freelight »
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Bladerunner

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Re: Divine Science - New Thought Christianity
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2018, 08:25:27 pm »
~*~*~

Excellent,....its just a way to look at the spiritual laws of thought, form and substance, - how our minds can 'know' and 'apply' the 'science' of Spirit, since all creation is born out of Spirit.

Spirit is life, and this life appears to have consciousness which includes all forms.

In this infinite Spirit, consciousness has its own frequencies, qualities, or 'inherencies'....so that when knowing such the mind can conform itself with such knowledge and rightly apply it, the mind affirming the fundamental truth of Spirit, its essence, qualities and attributes,....its law of expression. Then we can rightly use our 'minds' to re-turn and align ourselves with Source, its creative will, intent and purpose of creation.

Divine Science affirms that right NOW,  is the fullness of omnipresence, so that the allness, abosluteness and infinity of 'God' is ever-present....in toto.  'God' right this moment and in all moments of existence is the Sole Absolute, - all else is relative of course.

It is the creative play of individual mind within Universal Mind that most New Thought schools explore and expound upon, regarding man's success and enterprise in all areas of life.

One Love  One Power. One Presence.


~*~*~

Alan Anderson has a wonderful resource nexus on what he calls 'Process New Thought' which blends elements of Process Philosophy/Theology with New Thought Metaphysics. Index Page of various articles -

http://ppquimby.com/alan/index.htm

-------


  This is a very dangerous interpretation as it completely deletes the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Very, very Dangerous to ones salvation

Blade





1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
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freelight

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Re: Divine Science - New Thought Christianity
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2018, 05:52:42 pm »

  This is a very dangerous interpretation as it completely deletes the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Very, very Dangerous to ones salvation

Blade





Greetings Bladerunner and all following,

For starters anyone interested in New Thought Philosophy and the particular school of Divine Science within this movement, please read the OP (Opening Post) and get a basic understanding of the foundation, principles and teaching of the school, its premise, to understand the 'science' involved, which is essentially the 'knowledge' of 'God' and the laws of creative expression that originate from and are sustained by that Source. There is only 'God' and the 'Creation' of 'God',...so all laws or principles existing within nature and the soul of man, originate from this One Universal Mind that is all-pervading, all-encompassing and OMNIPRESENT. If 'God' is already the sole power, mind, presence and energy existing, everywhere and always thru-out all space and time, then there is no 'absence' or 'seperation' from 'God' in reality, EXCEPT in one's own perception, misperception or ignorance of 'God' and his omnipresence.

I would challenge Bladerunner on his 'interpretation' or 'definition' of what the gospel of Jesus Christ is, since Divine Science does not 'delete' anything of Jesus teachings but accentuates and reveals its true deeper meaning and value relating the soul's very intimate 'oneness' with 'God', which is already a reality....since there is no place empty of 'God'.

 This assumption of 'deletion' of Christ's gospel is a misunderstanding of the premise of New Thought which holds that 'God' is ever and always PRESENT, so there is nothing to be 'saved' from except one's own ignorance, error or wrong thinking, and returning the mind back to Universal Mind and Spirit, which is the original and omnipresent reality at hand! So, there is no 'deleting' of Jesus teachings AT ALL, but a focus of every soul's relationship to the Father as a matter of fact, which is fulfllled in experience WHEN the truth of such unity with God is realized.

Furthermore, it is a mistaken assumption to deem Paul's gospel (focusing on a vicarious blood atonement and other mythological motifs and allegorical symbols) as the gospel Jesus himself taught, which it is NOT, since Jesus teaching focuses on the good-news of God's kingdom HERE and NOW, in our midst, even in our own soul, our own consciousness, which mirrors a son's true relationship to his Father, - for Jesus shows us that as we recognize 'God' as 'Our Father', the truth of our own 'sonship' with God is realized, and we can say with full confidence along with Jesus, "the Father and I are one", because this is a truth. Again, as we affirm the omnipresence of Spirit, 'God' is now fully present and all the inherencies of his divine presence and nature are HERE in toto. There is no lack or absence of anything in Omnipresence, since it contains always the fullness of infinity.

With a proper understanding of Divine Science, we appreciate or re-cognize God's omnipresence, and in that PRESENCE is all fullness, power, love, truth, mercy, grace, provision, wholeness, joy, wisdom. Spirit now, is all in all, because All there really is, .....is Spirit. - Spirit alone is life, and has within it all provisions....the source of all substance and form.

So, this is NOT dangerous to one's salvation, but facilitates one's recognition of a more immediate reality than what any presuppositional theology or dogma could afford, since it deals with the direct truth of God's omnipresence, and not a 'theory' or 'doctrine' of God's absence. In the divine love and presence there is no fear, no torment, but everlasting joy, peace and plenty, since there is an ever abundant infinite supply at the heart of being. Our 'being' and God's Being are not 'two', but 'one'. It is this non-dual truth behind the illusion of duality or seperation that is intuited in this school of science and the philosophy that flows from its premise.

This saying just hit me today, while reading a spiritual commentary on Facebook, posted a particular individual - "Know the truth, respect the illusion". - its really sparked many insights and pre-cognitions within, - just thought to share that as it does relate to the subject at hand, most remarkably  :)

http://divinescience.com

http://www.divinescience.org


Blessings in the divine Christ, who reveals to us or own Christhood



~*~*~



« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 06:03:45 pm by freelight »
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Re: Divine Science - New Thought Christianity
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2018, 08:30:44 pm »

  This is a very dangerous interpretation as it completely deletes the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Very, very Dangerous to ones salvation

Blade





Greetings Bladerunner and all following,

For starters anyone interested in New Thought Philosophy and the particular school of Divine Science within this movement, please read the OP (Opening Post) and get a basic understanding of the foundation, principles and teaching of the school, its premise, to understand the 'science' involved, which is essentially the 'knowledge' of 'God' and the laws of creative expression that originate from and are sustained by that Source. There is only 'God' and the 'Creation' of 'God',...so all laws or principles existing within nature and the soul of man, originate from this One Universal Mind that is all-pervading, all-encompassing and OMNIPRESENT. If 'God' is already the sole power, mind, presence and energy existing, everywhere and always thru-out all space and time, then there is no 'absence' or 'seperation' from 'God' in reality, EXCEPT in one's own perception, misperception or ignorance of 'God' and his omnipresence.

I would challenge Bladerunner on his 'interpretation' or 'definition' of what the gospel of Jesus Christ is, since Divine Science does not 'delete' anything of Jesus teachings but accentuates and reveals its true deeper meaning and value relating the soul's very intimate 'oneness' with 'God', which is already a reality....since there is no place empty of 'God'.

 This assumption of 'deletion' of Christ's gospel is a misunderstanding of the premise of New Thought which holds that 'God' is ever and always PRESENT, so there is nothing to be 'saved' from except one's own ignorance, error or wrong thinking, and returning the mind back to Universal Mind and Spirit, which is the original and omnipresent reality at hand! So, there is no 'deleting' of Jesus teachings AT ALL, but a focus of every soul's relationship to the Father as a matter of fact, which is fulfllled in experience WHEN the truth of such unity with God is realized.

Furthermore, it is a mistaken assumption to deem Paul's gospel (focusing on a vicarious blood atonement and other mythological motifs and allegorical symbols) as the gospel Jesus himself taught, which it is NOT, since Jesus teaching focuses on the good-news of God's kingdom HERE and NOW, in our midst, even in our own soul, our own consciousness, which mirrors a son's true relationship to his Father, - for Jesus shows us that as we recognize 'God' as 'Our Father', the truth of our own 'sonship' with God is realized, and we can say with full confidence along with Jesus, "the Father and I are one", because this is a truth. Again, as we affirm the omnipresence of Spirit, 'God' is now fully present and all the inherencies of his divine presence and nature are HERE in toto. There is no lack or absence of anything in Omnipresence, since it contains always the fullness of infinity.

With a proper understanding of Divine Science, we appreciate or re-cognize God's omnipresence, and in that PRESENCE is all fullness, power, love, truth, mercy, grace, provision, wholeness, joy, wisdom. Spirit now, is all in all, because All there really is, .....is Spirit. - Spirit alone is life, and has within it all provisions....the source of all substance and form.

So, this is NOT dangerous to one's salvation, but facilitates one's recognition of a more immediate reality than what any presuppositional theology or dogma could afford, since it deals with the direct truth of God's omnipresence, and not a 'theory' or 'doctrine' of God's absence. In the divine love and presence there is no fear, no torment, but everlasting joy, peace and plenty, since there is an ever abundant infinite supply at the heart of being. Our 'being' and God's Being are not 'two', but 'one'. It is this non-dual truth behind the illusion of duality or seperation that is intuited in this school of science and the philosophy that flows from its premise.

This saying just hit me today, while reading a spiritual commentary on Facebook, posted a particular individual - "Know the truth, respect the illusion". - its really sparked many insights and pre-cognitions within, - just thought to share that as it does relate to the subject at hand, most remarkably  :)

http://divinescience.com

http://www.divinescience.org


Blessings in the divine Christ, who reveals to us or own Christhood



~*~*~





freelight, I have looked at your (OP) opening post and various websites that support this religion. I have many questions but will keep them to only a few to make my point.

Where is the Trinity?
Where is the WORD of GOD (Bible (KJV))?
Where is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. (Yes, Paul is our Apostle)?
Where are all the prophecies of Daniel, Isaiah, Jeramiah, etc. etc.
Where are the Jewish People God (the Father's People)?
Where is the Kingdom of GOD, (The Church)?
WHERE is JESUS CHRIST, the SON of GOD?
Where is the Age of Grace?
Where is the Holy Spirit indwelling all who believe. (restrainer)?
Where is Creation?
Where is the Flood?
WHere is the Salvation, Sanctification, Justification and Glorification as promised by our Lord Jesus Christ?
WHere is the Cross?
Where is the Crucifixion of Christ
Where is the Burial?
Where is the Resurrection?
Where is the Rapture?
Where is the Millennial?

To cap this off: Here is the New Thought Statement of Beliefs:
" Life is Continuous..............
It proceeds from Divine Life, which is Good in all its manifestations.
There is only one Power in the Universe, the Power we call God.
There is no evil except that which is man-made.
The normal state of man is abounding health.
The Divine Purpose is to express the Joy of Life.

 
E. Holmes (a Science Divine believer) states their beliefs a little better"Divine Science is the convergence of the "laws of science, the opinions of philosophy, and the revelations of religion applied to the needs and the aspirations of humankind."

I will stand by what I stated in the first post. This is a dangerous religion to be taking. It is very dangerous to ones Salavation.

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

patrick jane

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Re: Divine Science - New Thought Christianity
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2018, 01:40:24 pm »
SOPHIA: Sophia, Antichrist Spirit, Divine Feminine & Gnosticism



Explore the truth with me in this educational video about Nonduality, The Divine Feminine, Gnosticism, Sophia & the Antichrist Spirit.

This is an informative Christian perspective regarding my research on Sophia, Divine Feminine, Antichrist Spirit, & it's relation to Gnosticism. It is important to remember Jesus Christ is our one and ONLY mediator between us and God. And He is our ONLY way to eternal life. The goal of this video is to provoke thought and awareness about the world around us.


49 minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXxOgX05UpQ&index=35&t=1529s&list=WL




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Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins, the gospel of our salvation, and repenting, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -

Disclaimer:  This project and content is being made available for religious, political & social activism, teaching, educational and research purposes. This material is being made available within this transformative and/or derivative work for the purposes of education and activist commentary and criticism and is believed to be "Fair Use" in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107.

freelight

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Re: Divine Science - New Thought Christianity
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2018, 06:57:40 pm »

freelight, I have looked at your (OP) opening post and various websites that support this religion. I have many questions but will keep them to only a few to make my point.

Where is the Trinity?
Where is the WORD of GOD (Bible (KJV))?
Where is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. (Yes, Paul is our Apostle)?
Where are all the prophecies of Daniel, Isaiah, Jeramiah, etc. etc.
Where are the Jewish People God (the Father's People)?
Where is the Kingdom of GOD, (The Church)?
WHERE is JESUS CHRIST, the SON of GOD?
Where is the Age of Grace?
Where is the Holy Spirit indwelling all who believe. (restrainer)?
Where is Creation?
Where is the Flood?
WHere is the Salvation, Sanctification, Justification and Glorification as promised by our Lord Jesus Christ?
WHere is the Cross?
Where is the Crucifixion of Christ
Where is the Burial?
Where is the Resurrection?
Where is the Rapture?
Where is the Millennial?

Hi Blade,

DS takes an allegorical esoteric approach to defining and understanding such terms, and all the questions you ask could take volumes of commentary, from a divine science perspective. Such a list has some 'loaded' injectors there, that I could treat in various ways. I've fleshed out its view on 'sin' and other subjects, since if it is true that Spirit is omnipresent, and that Spirit is the basis and ground of all reality, experience and consciousness,..then infinite Spirit is the source, essence and very ground of reality, that eternal divine condition existing inherently in man, and in all creation for that matter. This is fundamental to New Thought Metaphysics, and its 'philosophy' revolves around the truth of God's all-pervading omnipresence, and how man can function within the laws and conduct of Spirit and its divine frequency. This is what life is all about.

If you want to me to address each on the list you present above, I can do so in a 'creative dialogue' fashion, which will include the DS view and my own insights on each inquiry.

For our amusement for starters,...your question of a 'Trinity' is merely conceptual anyways, and DS does accept certain trinities existing, as in divine and natural patterns of creation. So, 'Father', 'Son' and 'Spirit' are typologies and aspects of Deity and its various functions, but such depends on how you are defining and contextualizing the various trinities. Again, its merely conceptual, and a matter of relational unity concerning such 'companies'. So a divine trinity can be said to exist within the Godhead, of course. This however is not a matter of dogma, but of conceptual logic, spiritual intelligence and reason, but again....its how such is related conceptually and contextually.

Quote
I will stand by what I stated in the first post. This is a dangerous religion to be taking. It is very dangerous to ones Salavation.

Not anymore dangerous than believing a 'god' commanding wholesale genocide, allowing slavery and oppression of women, instituting human physical mutilation or animal sacrifice, among other atrocities as human scribes gave that deity (the demiurge) human like temperments and characteristics.

As far as 'salvation' goes, for sure....DS holds a very different view of 'salvation' not loaded with defaults and presumptions loaded in traditional theology, so its free of those inclusions or complications. If 'God' is already the one absolute universal reality, and this infinite Good is omnipresent, with all the divine inherencies of Spirit already existing in the soul of man, just awaiting his re-cognition, then 'salvation' is a matter of re-cognizing, not any waiting upon a blood sacrifice or some presumed 'atonement' ritual in time taking place, to somehow save man. There are alot of smoke and mirrors involved in the 'salvation' game, so much depends on what 'pawns' are used on the chessboard with so many presuppositions brought before the table, before the game even begins.

We could share more, but this will do for now  :)

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Re: Divine Science - New Thought Christianity
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2018, 09:57:07 pm »
NO ONE KNOWS THE DAY OR THE HOUR?


At the Time of the End, the wise shall understand. Dan 12:10

Understanding the expression "No man knows the day or hour" is not possible
by simply taking the English translation literally, because in the book of
Daniel and the Book of Revelation, we are given EXACT descriptions of
timing, relative to KEY events - such as the shutting down of the altar
sacrifices in Jerusalem at the MID-POINT of the 70th week. Dan 9:27

Jesus was asked, "When shall these things be?" Matt 24:3

His answer ties us in to a very specific event (The Abomination of
Desolation) which can be measured on our calendars: "When you therefore
shall see the Abomination Of Desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet,
stand in the holy place, (whoever reads, let him understand:)..." Matt 24:15.

It is now clear that "no man knows the day or hour" does NOT mean "no man
knows the day or hour" as we read it from a modern-day English perspective.

>From his book "Signs In the Heavens" by Avi Ben Mordechai, he devotes a
chapter to explaining what "no man knows the day or hour" truly means from
a rabbinical Hebraic perspective. It is a figure of speech.

The following chapter contains edited excerpts from Avi Ben Mordechai's
commentaries and builds on them aiming to explain that the Holy Bible does
in fact reveal the "day and hour" or "exact timing" of our Lord's Return.

No One Knows the Day or the Hour?

Christians over the centuries have separated themselves from their Hebraic
roots causing the misunderstanding of key Jewish biblical idioms. An idiom
is also a figure of speech. When Y'shua (Jesus) uttered His famous words
concerning the Messianic Era in Mattityahu (Matthew) 24:26,

"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in Heaven, nor the Son, but
only the Father", He used a common Jewish figure of speech referring to a
specific Jewish Festival. In essence He was saying, "I am coming for My
Bride on such and such a day! Be watching!" What day could the Jewish idiom
be referring to? Keep reading!

HEBRAIC ROOTS

Y'shua HaMashiach (Jesus the Messiah) was Jewish and lived a
Torah-observant Jewish life. Evidence suggests that He communicated to His
audience in the Hebrew language, in Hebraic ways. What does it mean to
communicate in Hebraic ways?


It means to think and talk like a Jew. In Y'shua's day it meant to speak in the language and idioms of the day.
Those who heard the Lord speak knew what He was saying and usually what He was
alluding to unless He was speaking in parables, which had their own
analogies. Of course, today's generation of believers struggles to
understand His words and concepts.


Speaking, thinking and acting like the
Jewish Rabbi He was helped His mission in bringing the gospel message to
"the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matt 15:24).

Y'shua was quoted in Mattityahu (Matthew) 8:11 as saying: "I say to you
that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places
at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the Kingdom of Heaven".

Since we are talking about Jewish idioms, have you ever considered the meaning of
these words? Specifically, our Lord used and confirmed common Jewish ideas
about the Day of the Lord - the millennium - and its relation to the Feast
of Sukkot (Tabernacles) in Z'kharyah 14.


In speaking, Y'shua referred to
the Festival and its traditional guests of honour, Avraham, Yitzchak and
Ya'acov, called the ushpizin (uoosh-piz-zin) or seven shepherds (exalted
guests), invited into every succah (tabernacle) at the Feast of Sukkot in
the fall of the year.

The seven shepherds in descending order are
1. Avraham (Abraham), 2. Yitzchak (Isaac), 3. Ya'acov (Jacob), 4. Mosheh
(Moses), 5. Aaron, 6. Yosef (Joseph) and 7. HaMelech David (King David).
By mentioning the feast and three of the seven shepherds,

His audience
immediately understood the allusion to the Messianic age - "Millennium" or
"Day" of the Lord.

"For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost" (Luke 19:10).
Again, in this simplistic phrase Y'shua, the Son of Miriyam and Yosef,
spoke of two things: His Deity (by calling Himself the subject of the
prophet Dani'el's vision) and His mission (by calling Himself the One God
Who spoke to Mosheh on Mount Sinai) as it is written in Dani'el and
Yechezk'el (Ezekiel):

In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was One like a Son of
Man, coming with the clouds of Heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days
and was led into His presence (Dani'el 7:13-14).

For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I Myself will search for My sheep
and look after them (Yechezk'el-Ezekiel 34:11ff).

In the Gospel narrative of Luke 23:31, Y'shua said: "For if men do these
things when the tree is green, what will happen when it is dry?" In this
verse Y'shua points His audience, who had portions of the writings of the
Prophets memorized, to the verses in Yechezk'el (Ezekiel) 20:45 to 21:7.
Without question, Y'shua's hearers knew He referred to Chevlei HaMashiach
or Ya'acov's Trouble in the Great Tribulation and warned His audience that
what they do to Him in hardness of heart now, God will do to the nation in
judgement later.

Y'shua's encounter with Natan'el (Nathanael) is recorded in Yochanan (John)
1:47-48: When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, He said of him, "Here is a
true Israelite, in whom there is nothing false". "How do You know me?"
Nathanael asked. Jesus answered, "I saw you while you were still under the
fig tree before Philip called you".

Again, our Lord used a strong figure of speech pointing to a widely taught
Jewish expectation concerning the resurrection and the millennium. In
brief, He told Natan'el that he will be alive on the Last Day to inherit
the land promised to Avraham (Bereshith-Genesis 17:8). From Y'shua's words,
Natan'el understood he would participate in the resurrection since "that
Day" was yet future.


This is understood in the first century Jewish figure
of speech, "I saw you while you were still under the fig tree", which
refers to life and study of Torah in the millennium (Midrash Rabbah
Genesis, Rabbah Song of Songs).


Y'shua also told Natan'el that he is like
righteous Avraham who received his reward for trusting God. This is
understood because of the phrase, "Here is a true Israelite, in whom there
is nothing false". The millennial concept of the fig tree is found
throughout the Tanach including Z'kharyah 3:10:


"In that day each of you will invite his neighbor to sit under his vine and fig tree", declares the
LORD Almighty. For this reason Natan'el responded emphatically to Y'shua
and His words, saying: "Rabbi, you are the Son of God; You are the King of
Israel!"

God through HaMashiach Y'shua spoke to the Jews in many portions and in
many ways (Hebrews 1:1-2) relying upon known figures of speech, common
expectations and direct thoughts from Talmudic and Pharisaic teachings. The
concepts I addressed only scratch the surface, so-to-speak.


Every phrase
and word from the mouth of the Lord meant something to His audience. He
spoke with precision. With that as a basis, let us go on to one of the most
interesting Jewish figures of speech misunderstood by the Church over the
years. It concerns Y'shua's phrase,


"No one knows about that day or hour,
not even the angels in Heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father". In
context, He refers to the home-taking of His bride, the beginning of the
Messianic era and His millennial reign as King of kings over all the earth.
To understand this concept, we begin by examining its foundation.

ROSH HASHANAH

Chapter Five described the annual Jewish Festival of Trumpets or Rosh
HaShanah - the first day of the seventh month. A few themes linked to this
Jewish festival are resurrection, repentance, kingship, corronation and a
marriage feast.


This chapter shows another theme and convincing proof that
Rosh HaShanah is not only the start of "The Day of the Lord" (Millennium),
but is also the day of the resurrection! It has to do with the moon and its
29-day cycle of renewal.

In this period of slightly less than 30 days, the moon goes from darkness
to light and back to darkness again. This is not a haphazard occurrence
attributed to evolution or science.

God planned it for many reasons, one
being as a picture of resurrection and renewal. With each cycle of nearly
30 days the ancient rabbis understood that the moon was being reborn or
"born again" (Sefard siddur, Mussaf for Shabbat and Shabbat Rosh Chodesh,
p. 509 and 646-648).

NEW MOON

In Y'shua's day, the moon was so important that a Jewish festival was
proclaimed at the beginning of every month (Talmud Tractate Chaggigah 17b;
Shavuot 10a; Arachin 10b). This was called the New Moon Festival and in the
B'rit Chadashah, Rabbi Sha'ul (Paul) makes note of it (Colossians 2:16).
Even in the Tanach, King David provoked King Sha'ul (Saul) over it (1
Shmu'el-Samuel 20:5).


In the coming millennium the gate of the inner court
of the Temple facing east shall be opened on the new moon
(Yechezk'el-Ezekiel 46:1).


And finally in the millennium all nations will
celebrate the New Moon festival every month (Yeshayahu-Isaiah 66:23). It is
obvious from the Hebrew Scriptures that in the millennium God has no plans
to do away with His system.

Since it is so important, exactly what is a new moon? It is the opposite of
a full moon. Every month the moon goes through a complete cycle of renewal
called Rosh Chodesh, the head or beginning of the renewed month. Twelve
times a year on Rosh Chodesh, the moon always starts off with its disk
being very dark to the naked eye.


Over the course of 15 days it gets
brighter and brighter until it finally reaches a full white-faced disk or
full moon. Over the next 15 days it becomes darker and darker and finally
becomes invisible to the naked eye again.

The ancient rabbis saw a great lesson in this. Just as the moon has no
light of its own but receives its light from the sun, so we too have no
light of our own and must receive it from God.


As the moon goes through a
near 30-day cycle of dark to light to dark, so we need constant spiritual
renewal and repentance. Like the moon, we too must be reborn or "born
again" into HaMashiach and constantly renewed through repentance. This is
why God called it a faithful witness in the sky (Mizmor-Psalm 89:37).

If the moon is so important to God, why do we pay so little attention to
it? We have lost touch with God's faithful witness in the sky. But Y'shua
and the people of His day never lost touch with it. And as I previously
noted, not only was the new moon necessary for the Jewish calendar, it was
also a monthly festival celebrated with a feast fit for a king!


So, when
Y'shua said His famous words in Mattityahu-Matthew 24:36, it had
far-reaching implications. Here are the words of Y'shua in a few different
translations:

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but
my Father only. (KJV)

No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the
Son, but only the Father. (NIV) But of that day and hour knoweth no one,
not even the angels of heaven, neither the Son, but the Father only. (ASV)
About the exact time, however, and the hour, none knows - not even the
messengers of Heaven; but My Father alone. (Fenton Modern English
Translation)

Failing to think like Y'shua and taking phrases out of Jewish context can
lead one to misunderstand His words. For example, in many places of the
B'rit Chadashah Y'shua knew the future and talked about it openly. In one
instance He warned His talmidim (disciples) about their future saying,
"See, I have told you ahead of time" (Mattityahu-Matthew 24:25). His
context concerned the tribulation, the destruction of the Temple, the rise
and fall of false messiahs (antichrists), etc.


If He knew the future in
Mattityahu 24:25, and the context concerns the Day of Trouble, why would He
suddenly speak as though He did not know the future in the same context
just 11 verses later in Mattityahu 24:36? Was He confused? Or was He making
perfect sense in light of the customs of the Jews?

Since the subject of our discussion is the new moon and figures of speech,
realize the phrase, "Of that day and hour no man knows" refers to the
sanctification or setting apart of the new moon. Without this
sanctification, the Jews had no way of determining God's "appointed times"
or moedim.

Twelve times a year a new Jewish month (Rosh Chodesh) was announced to the
people. We have no system like it today. We look at a calendar to determine
the first of the month; the Jews, however, looked at the moon.


This system
of chronology was given to the Jews to know precisely when the Holy
festivals (moedim) would fall (there are still eight of them; seven
appointed times and Shabbat). The moon was the faithful Jewish calendar or
witness in the sky and 12 times a year was sanctified as the basis of the
Jewish stellar calendar.

GOD'S APPOINTED TIMES

Because the moon was so important for Jewish date - setting, the authorities
in charge of announcing the new moon in Y'rushalayim took great care to
ensure the first day of the month was announced on time. To correctly
announce the first day of the month, established by the new moon, was one
of the Sanhedrin's greatest responsibilities. They had to ensure the people
knew when the first of the month began 12 times a year! Therefore God said
to the leaders of Israel:

These are the appointed times of the Lord, holy convocations which you
shall proclaim at the times appointed for them (Vayikrah-Leviticus 23:4).

In other words, God gave the Sanhedrin authority to announce and sanctify
the new moon to the people. Its proclamation on earth was supported by God
in Heaven (c.f. Mattityahu 18:18-20 where the Jewish context supports a
believers' Sanhedrin as seen in Acts 15).


As soon as the new moon was
announced, the first day of the month began. Once the beginning of the new
month was established, the festivals and weekly Shabbats for the upcoming
month were sanctified for observance. In Hebrew, those observances have
always been called "appointed  times" or moedim, literally "a sacred and
set time".


From God's perspective, the appointed times belong to Him
(Midrash Rabbah Numbers, Vol 2.21.25, p. 852) and no one has the authority
to change the celebration of an appointed time.


To do so was a serious
matter and great sin. Appointed times had to be kept because of their
Messianic implications.

Further in Vayikrah (Leviticus) 23:4, notice the phrase, "holy
convocation". The phrase in Hebrew is mikraw kodesh, better translated,
"holy convocation and rehearsal". In other words, God's appointed times are
actually "holy rehearsals" set apart to reflect events in the Messianic
era. God said to the people,


"Pay attention! On this day I am going to do
something! Wake-up! The Jews were to know and practice all of God's mikraot
or holy convocations. This is the essence of Rav Sha'ul's words that the
Shabbat, new moons and festivals, "are a shadow of things to come; the body
of Mashiach" (Colossians 2:17).

Twice a year, in the spring and fall, there were several appointed times
and specific days of holy convocation dedicated to the Lord. The new moon
was the key in being able to fulfill those set times, holy convocations and
rehearsals.


For example, when the new moon was announced on the first day
of Nisan, also called Aviv, the people knew when to observe the holy
convocations and set times of the 10th (Shemot-Exodus 12:3), 14th and 15th
(Shemot-Exodus 12:6; Bamidbar-Numbers 33:3), 16th (Vayikrah-Leviticus
23:15), and finally the 21st.


In the same way, when the new moon was
announced on the first day of Tishri also called Ethanim, the people knew
when to observe the Holy convocations of the 1st  (Vayikrah-Leviticus
23:23), 10th  (Vayikrah-Leviticus 23:26), 15th  (Vayikrah-Leviticus 23:39),
and 22nd  (Vayikrah-Leviticus 23:36).


Thus from the announcement of the new
moon to the festival dates which followed, it was only a matter of counting
the right number of days. In a moment you will understand how this applies
to the phrase that Y'shua spoke concerning His coming again.

THE SANHEDRIN AND THE TWO WITNESSES

The Mishnah, also referred to as the Oral Law, dealt with the legal
elements of daily Jewish religious life, in Hebrew called halachah. In the
treasure of the first and second century halachah we find many explanations
to help us understand the Torah particularly in Y'shua's day since it was
still oral then.


In volume two called "moed" or festival, tractate Rosh
HaShanah teaches us about the Sanhedrin and its selection process of two
witnesses who would tell us when the new moon arrived. Once a month the
Sanhedrin discussed when to proclaim the new moon. They did this through
the agency of two witnesses, the element of all legal transactions in
Judaism.

One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any
sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the
mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.   Deut 19:15

The men were important because by their witness, Israel celebrated God's
appointed times. They had to be of good character and were always treated
with great honour.


They had special privileges such as authorization to
ride into Y'rushalayim on horseback on the Shabbat to bring the good news
of the new moon festivities! The men had special status because they were
the confirmation that Y'hudah (Judaea)  depended on for the correct timing
of the new month and the festivals.

Rosh HaShanah Chapter 2, Mishnah 5 reads: There was a large court in
Jerusalem called Beth Ya'azek. There all the witnesses used to assemble and
the Beth Din used to examine them. They used to entertain them lavishly
there so that they should have an inducement to come. (The witnesses were
allowed to break the Shabbat travel restrictions for this one purpose lest
they might be reluctant to come and give the essential evidence of the
sighting of the new moon).

Continuing in Chapter 2, Mishnah 6: How do they test the witnesses? The
pair who arrive first are tested first. The senior of them is brought in
and they say to him, tell us how you saw the moon - in front of the sun or
behind the sun? To the north of it or the south? How big was it, and in
which direction was it inclined?


And how broad was it? If he says (he saw
it) in front of the sun, his evidence is rejected. After that they would
bring in the second and test him.


If their accounts tallied, their evidence
was accepted, and the other pairs were only questioned briefly, not because
they were required at all, but so that they should not be disappointed,
(and) so that they should not be dissuaded from coming.

In qualifying the witnesses, the Sanhedrin used the following criteria:
They never arrived at the same time.
They were never questioned at the same time.
There were always two new witnesses each month.

In short, the two qualified witnesses usually stood before the Nassi or
President of the Sanhedrin (Jewish High Court) to give account of the
moon's appearance prior to its becoming total dark (Moed Rosh HaShanah,
Chapter 3, Mishnah 1).


Just before the moon's disk enters total darkness,
there are tiny slivers of white on the edges of the waning disk. These were
called the "horns" of the moon.

Correctly sighting the "horns" (on the
waning crescent) determined the beginning of the new month. Once the two
witnesses were qualified and questioned, if the President (who had
knowledge of astronomy) was convinced their observation was accurate, he
publicly sanctified the start of the new month.

After careful scrutiny to determine the official arrival of the new moon,
the Nassi or President of the Sanhedrin proclaimed Rosh Chodesh with the
words: "Sanctified", and all the people repeat after him, "Sanctified,
sanctified". After the proclamation, the Sanhedrin ordered watchmen on the
nearby hillsides to light fires and thus inform the Jews in all of Y'hudah
(Judaea), Shomron (Samaria), Egypt, Babylon and the galut (diaspora) that
the new month had begun. That started the festival of the New Moon and
counting of the next 29- days to the next new month proclamation.

Again, once the Sanhedrin set Rosh Chodesh, or the beginning of the new
month by sighting the new moon, the rest of the festivals were calculated.
However, the seventh month, Tishri, was particularly important because it
was the only month that had a holy convocation or appointed time on the
first day of the month.


This posed a unique problem. The first day of
Tishri was the appointed time called Rosh HaShanah, the Feast of Trumpets
(Vayikrah-Leviticus 23:24). Yet no one could begin observing the festival
until they heard those famous words from the President of the Sanhedrin,
"Sanctified!"

No one in Israel could plan for the first day of the seventh month Tishri,
called Yom Teruah or the Feast of Trumpets (also called Rosh HaShanah).
When they knew how many days to count to a festival, that would be easy.
But:

HOW COULD THEY PLAN FOR A FESTIVAL THAT THEY DID NOT KNOW AT WHAT DAY OR
HOUR IT WOULD PUBLICALLY BE ANNOUNCED AND THUS BEGIN?

This was unique to Rosh HaShanah and dependent upon the testimony of the
two witnesses. Prophetically, we are informed of two important witnesses
during the Great Tribulation:

And I will give power unto My Two Witnesses, and they will prophesy 1260
days, clothed in sackcloth.
Rev 11:3

Of course, anyone could look up into the twilight or early morning sky and,
if they looked hard enough, see the new moon or at least its "horns". And
certainly an astute observer knew when about 29- days were completed since
the previous Rosh Chodesh.

But recall, ONLY THE SANHEDRIN NASSI had the
authority to proclaim the first of Tishri, which was already established as
a technical procedure.


Once proclaimed, the Feast of Trumpets (Rosh
HaShanah) commenced. Until that public announcement by the Nassi, everyone
had to wait before they could begin the observance of the festival. No one
could begin the festival beforehand!


Thus, we can more clearly see the
analogy Jesus made with His words: "But of that day and hour knoweth no
man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only" was in regards to
this important festival of Rosh HaShanah.

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Re: Divine Science - New Thought Christianity
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2018, 08:40:24 pm »
NO ONE KNOWS THE DAY OR THE HOUR?


At the Time of the End, the wise shall understand. Dan 12:10

Understanding the expression "No man knows the day or hour" is not possible
by simply taking the English translation literally, because in the book of
Daniel and the Book of Revelation, we are given EXACT descriptions of
timing, relative to KEY events - such as the shutting down of the altar
sacrifices in Jerusalem at the MID-POINT of the 70th week. Dan 9:27

Jesus was asked, "When shall these things be?" Matt 24:3

His answer ties us in to a very specific event (The Abomination of
Desolation) which can be measured on our calendars: "When you therefore
shall see the Abomination Of Desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet,
stand in the holy place, (whoever reads, let him understand:)..." Matt 24:15.

It is now clear that "no man knows the day or hour" does NOT mean "no man
knows the day or hour" as we read it from a modern-day English perspective.

>From his book "Signs In the Heavens" by Avi Ben Mordechai, he devotes a
chapter to explaining what "no man knows the day or hour" truly means from
a rabbinical Hebraic perspective. It is a figure of speech.

The following chapter contains edited excerpts from Avi Ben Mordechai's
commentaries and builds on them aiming to explain that the Holy Bible does
in fact reveal the "day and hour" or "exact timing" of our Lord's Return.

No One Knows the Day or the Hour?

Christians over the centuries have separated themselves from their Hebraic
roots causing the misunderstanding of key Jewish biblical idioms. An idiom
is also a figure of speech. When Y'shua (Jesus) uttered His famous words
concerning the Messianic Era in Mattityahu (Matthew) 24:26,

"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in Heaven, nor the Son, but
only the Father", He used a common Jewish figure of speech referring to a
specific Jewish Festival. In essence He was saying, "I am coming for My
Bride on such and such a day! Be watching!" What day could the Jewish idiom
be referring to? Keep reading!

HEBRAIC ROOTS

Y'shua HaMashiach (Jesus the Messiah) was Jewish and lived a
Torah-observant Jewish life. Evidence suggests that He communicated to His
audience in the Hebrew language, in Hebraic ways. What does it mean to
communicate in Hebraic ways?


It means to think and talk like a Jew. In Y'shua's day it meant to speak in the language and idioms of the day.
Those who heard the Lord speak knew what He was saying and usually what He was
alluding to unless He was speaking in parables, which had their own
analogies. Of course, today's generation of believers struggles to
understand His words and concepts.


Speaking, thinking and acting like the
Jewish Rabbi He was helped His mission in bringing the gospel message to
"the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matt 15:24).

Y'shua was quoted in Mattityahu (Matthew) 8:11 as saying: "I say to you
that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places
at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the Kingdom of Heaven".

Since we are talking about Jewish idioms, have you ever considered the meaning of
these words? Specifically, our Lord used and confirmed common Jewish ideas
about the Day of the Lord - the millennium - and its relation to the Feast
of Sukkot (Tabernacles) in Z'kharyah 14.


In speaking, Y'shua referred to
the Festival and its traditional guests of honour, Avraham, Yitzchak and
Ya'acov, called the ushpizin (uoosh-piz-zin) or seven shepherds (exalted
guests), invited into every succah (tabernacle) at the Feast of Sukkot in
the fall of the year.

The seven shepherds in descending order are
1. Avraham (Abraham), 2. Yitzchak (Isaac), 3. Ya'acov (Jacob), 4. Mosheh
(Moses), 5. Aaron, 6. Yosef (Joseph) and 7. HaMelech David (King David).
By mentioning the feast and three of the seven shepherds,

His audience
immediately understood the allusion to the Messianic age - "Millennium" or
"Day" of the Lord.

"For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost" (Luke 19:10).
Again, in this simplistic phrase Y'shua, the Son of Miriyam and Yosef,
spoke of two things: His Deity (by calling Himself the subject of the
prophet Dani'el's vision) and His mission (by calling Himself the One God
Who spoke to Mosheh on Mount Sinai) as it is written in Dani'el and
Yechezk'el (Ezekiel):

In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was One like a Son of
Man, coming with the clouds of Heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days
and was led into His presence (Dani'el 7:13-14).

For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I Myself will search for My sheep
and look after them (Yechezk'el-Ezekiel 34:11ff).

In the Gospel narrative of Luke 23:31, Y'shua said: "For if men do these
things when the tree is green, what will happen when it is dry?" In this
verse Y'shua points His audience, who had portions of the writings of the
Prophets memorized, to the verses in Yechezk'el (Ezekiel) 20:45 to 21:7.
Without question, Y'shua's hearers knew He referred to Chevlei HaMashiach
or Ya'acov's Trouble in the Great Tribulation and warned His audience that
what they do to Him in hardness of heart now, God will do to the nation in
judgement later.

Y'shua's encounter with Natan'el (Nathanael) is recorded in Yochanan (John)
1:47-48: When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, He said of him, "Here is a
true Israelite, in whom there is nothing false". "How do You know me?"
Nathanael asked. Jesus answered, "I saw you while you were still under the
fig tree before Philip called you".

Again, our Lord used a strong figure of speech pointing to a widely taught
Jewish expectation concerning the resurrection and the millennium. In
brief, He told Natan'el that he will be alive on the Last Day to inherit
the land promised to Avraham (Bereshith-Genesis 17:8). From Y'shua's words,
Natan'el understood he would participate in the resurrection since "that
Day" was yet future.


This is understood in the first century Jewish figure
of speech, "I saw you while you were still under the fig tree", which
refers to life and study of Torah in the millennium (Midrash Rabbah
Genesis, Rabbah Song of Songs).


Y'shua also told Natan'el that he is like
righteous Avraham who received his reward for trusting God. This is
understood because of the phrase, "Here is a true Israelite, in whom there
is nothing false". The millennial concept of the fig tree is found
throughout the Tanach including Z'kharyah 3:10:


"In that day each of you will invite his neighbor to sit under his vine and fig tree", declares the
LORD Almighty. For this reason Natan'el responded emphatically to Y'shua
and His words, saying: "Rabbi, you are the Son of God; You are the King of
Israel!"

God through HaMashiach Y'shua spoke to the Jews in many portions and in
many ways (Hebrews 1:1-2) relying upon known figures of speech, common
expectations and direct thoughts from Talmudic and Pharisaic teachings. The
concepts I addressed only scratch the surface, so-to-speak.


Every phrase
and word from the mouth of the Lord meant something to His audience. He
spoke with precision. With that as a basis, let us go on to one of the most
interesting Jewish figures of speech misunderstood by the Church over the
years. It concerns Y'shua's phrase,


"No one knows about that day or hour,
not even the angels in Heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father". In
context, He refers to the home-taking of His bride, the beginning of the
Messianic era and His millennial reign as King of kings over all the earth.
To understand this concept, we begin by examining its foundation.

ROSH HASHANAH

Chapter Five described the annual Jewish Festival of Trumpets or Rosh
HaShanah - the first day of the seventh month. A few themes linked to this
Jewish festival are resurrection, repentance, kingship, corronation and a
marriage feast.


This chapter shows another theme and convincing proof that
Rosh HaShanah is not only the start of "The Day of the Lord" (Millennium),
but is also the day of the resurrection! It has to do with the moon and its
29-day cycle of renewal.

In this period of slightly less than 30 days, the moon goes from darkness
to light and back to darkness again. This is not a haphazard occurrence
attributed to evolution or science.

God planned it for many reasons, one
being as a picture of resurrection and renewal. With each cycle of nearly
30 days the ancient rabbis understood that the moon was being reborn or
"born again" (Sefard siddur, Mussaf for Shabbat and Shabbat Rosh Chodesh,
p. 509 and 646-648).

NEW MOON

In Y'shua's day, the moon was so important that a Jewish festival was
proclaimed at the beginning of every month (Talmud Tractate Chaggigah 17b;
Shavuot 10a; Arachin 10b). This was called the New Moon Festival and in the
B'rit Chadashah, Rabbi Sha'ul (Paul) makes note of it (Colossians 2:16).
Even in the Tanach, King David provoked King Sha'ul (Saul) over it (1
Shmu'el-Samuel 20:5).


In the coming millennium the gate of the inner court
of the Temple facing east shall be opened on the new moon
(Yechezk'el-Ezekiel 46:1).


And finally in the millennium all nations will
celebrate the New Moon festival every month (Yeshayahu-Isaiah 66:23). It is
obvious from the Hebrew Scriptures that in the millennium God has no plans
to do away with His system.

Since it is so important, exactly what is a new moon? It is the opposite of
a full moon. Every month the moon goes through a complete cycle of renewal
called Rosh Chodesh, the head or beginning of the renewed month. Twelve
times a year on Rosh Chodesh, the moon always starts off with its disk
being very dark to the naked eye.


Over the course of 15 days it gets
brighter and brighter until it finally reaches a full white-faced disk or
full moon. Over the next 15 days it becomes darker and darker and finally
becomes invisible to the naked eye again.

The ancient rabbis saw a great lesson in this. Just as the moon has no
light of its own but receives its light from the sun, so we too have no
light of our own and must receive it from God.


As the moon goes through a
near 30-day cycle of dark to light to dark, so we need constant spiritual
renewal and repentance. Like the moon, we too must be reborn or "born
again" into HaMashiach and constantly renewed through repentance. This is
why God called it a faithful witness in the sky (Mizmor-Psalm 89:37).

If the moon is so important to God, why do we pay so little attention to
it? We have lost touch with God's faithful witness in the sky. But Y'shua
and the people of His day never lost touch with it. And as I previously
noted, not only was the new moon necessary for the Jewish calendar, it was
also a monthly festival celebrated with a feast fit for a king!


So, when
Y'shua said His famous words in Mattityahu-Matthew 24:36, it had
far-reaching implications. Here are the words of Y'shua in a few different
translations:

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but
my Father only. (KJV)

No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the
Son, but only the Father. (NIV) But of that day and hour knoweth no one,
not even the angels of heaven, neither the Son, but the Father only. (ASV)
About the exact time, however, and the hour, none knows - not even the
messengers of Heaven; but My Father alone. (Fenton Modern English
Translation)

Failing to think like Y'shua and taking phrases out of Jewish context can
lead one to misunderstand His words. For example, in many places of the
B'rit Chadashah Y'shua knew the future and talked about it openly. In one
instance He warned His talmidim (disciples) about their future saying,
"See, I have told you ahead of time" (Mattityahu-Matthew 24:25). His
context concerned the tribulation, the destruction of the Temple, the rise
and fall of false messiahs (antichrists), etc.


If He knew the future in
Mattityahu 24:25, and the context concerns the Day of Trouble, why would He
suddenly speak as though He did not know the future in the same context
just 11 verses later in Mattityahu 24:36? Was He confused? Or was He making
perfect sense in light of the customs of the Jews?

Since the subject of our discussion is the new moon and figures of speech,
realize the phrase, "Of that day and hour no man knows" refers to the
sanctification or setting apart of the new moon. Without this
sanctification, the Jews had no way of determining God's "appointed times"
or moedim.

Twelve times a year a new Jewish month (Rosh Chodesh) was announced to the
people. We have no system like it today. We look at a calendar to determine
the first of the month; the Jews, however, looked at the moon.


This system
of chronology was given to the Jews to know precisely when the Holy
festivals (moedim) would fall (there are still eight of them; seven
appointed times and Shabbat). The moon was the faithful Jewish calendar or
witness in the sky and 12 times a year was sanctified as the basis of the
Jewish stellar calendar.

GOD'S APPOINTED TIMES

Because the moon was so important for Jewish date - setting, the authorities
in charge of announcing the new moon in Y'rushalayim took great care to
ensure the first day of the month was announced on time. To correctly
announce the first day of the month, established by the new moon, was one
of the Sanhedrin's greatest responsibilities. They had to ensure the people
knew when the first of the month began 12 times a year! Therefore God said
to the leaders of Israel:

These are the appointed times of the Lord, holy convocations which you
shall proclaim at the times appointed for them (Vayikrah-Leviticus 23:4).

In other words, God gave the Sanhedrin authority to announce and sanctify
the new moon to the people. Its proclamation on earth was supported by God
in Heaven (c.f. Mattityahu 18:18-20 where the Jewish context supports a
believers' Sanhedrin as seen in Acts 15).


As soon as the new moon was
announced, the first day of the month began. Once the beginning of the new
month was established, the festivals and weekly Shabbats for the upcoming
month were sanctified for observance. In Hebrew, those observances have
always been called "appointed  times" or moedim, literally "a sacred and
set time".


From God's perspective, the appointed times belong to Him
(Midrash Rabbah Numbers, Vol 2.21.25, p. 852) and no one has the authority
to change the celebration of an appointed time.


To do so was a serious
matter and great sin. Appointed times had to be kept because of their
Messianic implications.

Further in Vayikrah (Leviticus) 23:4, notice the phrase, "holy
convocation". The phrase in Hebrew is mikraw kodesh, better translated,
"holy convocation and rehearsal". In other words, God's appointed times are
actually "holy rehearsals" set apart to reflect events in the Messianic
era. God said to the people,


"Pay attention! On this day I am going to do
something! Wake-up! The Jews were to know and practice all of God's mikraot
or holy convocations. This is the essence of Rav Sha'ul's words that the
Shabbat, new moons and festivals, "are a shadow of things to come; the body
of Mashiach" (Colossians 2:17).

Twice a year, in the spring and fall, there were several appointed times
and specific days of holy convocation dedicated to the Lord. The new moon
was the key in being able to fulfill those set times, holy convocations and
rehearsals.


For example, when the new moon was announced on the first day
of Nisan, also called Aviv, the people knew when to observe the holy
convocations and set times of the 10th (Shemot-Exodus 12:3), 14th and 15th
(Shemot-Exodus 12:6; Bamidbar-Numbers 33:3), 16th (Vayikrah-Leviticus
23:15), and finally the 21st.


In the same way, when the new moon was
announced on the first day of Tishri also called Ethanim, the people knew
when to observe the Holy convocations of the 1st  (Vayikrah-Leviticus
23:23), 10th  (Vayikrah-Leviticus 23:26), 15th  (Vayikrah-Leviticus 23:39),
and 22nd  (Vayikrah-Leviticus 23:36).


Thus from the announcement of the new
moon to the festival dates which followed, it was only a matter of counting
the right number of days. In a moment you will understand how this applies
to the phrase that Y'shua spoke concerning His coming again.

THE SANHEDRIN AND THE TWO WITNESSES

The Mishnah, also referred to as the Oral Law, dealt with the legal
elements of daily Jewish religious life, in Hebrew called halachah. In the
treasure of the first and second century halachah we find many explanations
to help us understand the Torah particularly in Y'shua's day since it was
still oral then.


In volume two called "moed" or festival, tractate Rosh
HaShanah teaches us about the Sanhedrin and its selection process of two
witnesses who would tell us when the new moon arrived. Once a month the
Sanhedrin discussed when to proclaim the new moon. They did this through
the agency of two witnesses, the element of all legal transactions in
Judaism.

One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any
sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the
mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.   Deut 19:15

The men were important because by their witness, Israel celebrated God's
appointed times. They had to be of good character and were always treated
with great honour.


They had special privileges such as authorization to
ride into Y'rushalayim on horseback on the Shabbat to bring the good news
of the new moon festivities! The men had special status because they were
the confirmation that Y'hudah (Judaea)  depended on for the correct timing
of the new month and the festivals.

Rosh HaShanah Chapter 2, Mishnah 5 reads: There was a large court in
Jerusalem called Beth Ya'azek. There all the witnesses used to assemble and
the Beth Din used to examine them. They used to entertain them lavishly
there so that they should have an inducement to come. (The witnesses were
allowed to break the Shabbat travel restrictions for this one purpose lest
they might be reluctant to come and give the essential evidence of the
sighting of the new moon).

Continuing in Chapter 2, Mishnah 6: How do they test the witnesses? The
pair who arrive first are tested first. The senior of them is brought in
and they say to him, tell us how you saw the moon - in front of the sun or
behind the sun? To the north of it or the south? How big was it, and in
which direction was it inclined?


And how broad was it? If he says (he saw
it) in front of the sun, his evidence is rejected. After that they would
bring in the second and test him.


If their accounts tallied, their evidence
was accepted, and the other pairs were only questioned briefly, not because
they were required at all, but so that they should not be disappointed,
(and) so that they should not be dissuaded from coming.

In qualifying the witnesses, the Sanhedrin used the following criteria:
They never arrived at the same time.
They were never questioned at the same time.
There were always two new witnesses each month.

In short, the two qualified witnesses usually stood before the Nassi or
President of the Sanhedrin (Jewish High Court) to give account of the
moon's appearance prior to its becoming total dark (Moed Rosh HaShanah,
Chapter 3, Mishnah 1).


Just before the moon's disk enters total darkness,
there are tiny slivers of white on the edges of the waning disk. These were
called the "horns" of the moon.

Correctly sighting the "horns" (on the
waning crescent) determined the beginning of the new month. Once the two
witnesses were qualified and questioned, if the President (who had
knowledge of astronomy) was convinced their observation was accurate, he
publicly sanctified the start of the new month.

After careful scrutiny to determine the official arrival of the new moon,
the Nassi or President of the Sanhedrin proclaimed Rosh Chodesh with the
words: "Sanctified", and all the people repeat after him, "Sanctified,
sanctified". After the proclamation, the Sanhedrin ordered watchmen on the
nearby hillsides to light fires and thus inform the Jews in all of Y'hudah
(Judaea), Shomron (Samaria), Egypt, Babylon and the galut (diaspora) that
the new month had begun. That started the festival of the New Moon and
counting of the next 29- days to the next new month proclamation.

Again, once the Sanhedrin set Rosh Chodesh, or the beginning of the new
month by sighting the new moon, the rest of the festivals were calculated.
However, the seventh month, Tishri, was particularly important because it
was the only month that had a holy convocation or appointed time on the
first day of the month.


This posed a unique problem. The first day of
Tishri was the appointed time called Rosh HaShanah, the Feast of Trumpets
(Vayikrah-Leviticus 23:24). Yet no one could begin observing the festival
until they heard those famous words from the President of the Sanhedrin,
"Sanctified!"

No one in Israel could plan for the first day of the seventh month Tishri,
called Yom Teruah or the Feast of Trumpets (also called Rosh HaShanah).
When they knew how many days to count to a festival, that would be easy.
But:

HOW COULD THEY PLAN FOR A FESTIVAL THAT THEY DID NOT KNOW AT WHAT DAY OR
HOUR IT WOULD PUBLICALLY BE ANNOUNCED AND THUS BEGIN?

This was unique to Rosh HaShanah and dependent upon the testimony of the
two witnesses. Prophetically, we are informed of two important witnesses
during the Great Tribulation:

And I will give power unto My Two Witnesses, and they will prophesy 1260
days, clothed in sackcloth.
Rev 11:3

Of course, anyone could look up into the twilight or early morning sky and,
if they looked hard enough, see the new moon or at least its "horns". And
certainly an astute observer knew when about 29- days were completed since
the previous Rosh Chodesh.

But recall, ONLY THE SANHEDRIN NASSI had the
authority to proclaim the first of Tishri, which was already established as
a technical procedure.


Once proclaimed, the Feast of Trumpets (Rosh
HaShanah) commenced. Until that public announcement by the Nassi, everyone
had to wait before they could begin the observance of the festival. No one
could begin the festival beforehand!


Thus, we can more clearly see the
analogy Jesus made with His words: "But of that day and hour knoweth no
man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only" was in regards to
this important festival of Rosh HaShanah.

**********************************************************************

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This "NO ONE KNOWS THE DAY OR THE HOUR?" refers to the Rapture of the CHurch (Body of Christ) and will initiate a period of time  that will include Daniel's70th week with the Millennium following.

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
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freelight

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Re: Divine Science - New Thought Christianity
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2018, 02:46:34 am »

This "NO ONE KNOWS THE DAY OR THE HOUR?" refers to the Rapture of the CHurch (Body of Christ) and will initiate a period of time  that will include Daniel's70th week with the Millennium following.

Blade


According to Divine Science, the 'second coming' of 'Christ' happens individually and universally when one accepts and awakens to his own inner divinity, or 'Christ-consciousness' which is the consciousness of 'sonship', that one already IS a 'son of God', and this realization is in the 'spirit', in 'truth', and in such a condition, one can then truly worship the Father, and in that worship one's own sonship is established, or re-cognized. - it stands to logic and reason that one can only know 'God' as Father, if he is actually his own child or son. 'God' is a 'Father' by virture of the fact that he has children. - the title is 'generational'.

So, it is about abiding in the truth that is eternal, timeless, absolute, infinite and omnipresent, that is essential, while all that plays out in creation, is but the expression of Deity in space-time, through various dispensations, cycles, epochs, aeons, etc. What will 'unfold' will manifest or express in its own divine timing and within the re-cognitions of the souls attuned to the Spirit. Therefore there is not a fascination or pre-occupation with 'eschatology' or 'prophecy' in the space-time continuum, something that many traditional protestants seem to be infactuated with as to what will happen in the 'end times' or other issues of personal soteriology, etc. DS and many schools of New Thought interpret/translate traditional Christian terms in different ways, of a deeper figurative or esoteric dimension. The kingdom of heaven is here, NOW, since the allness of 'God' is here now.
 
OMNIPRESENCE.

And even still, Paul's writing contain many esoteric, even gnostic insights common to the mystery religions, as his own gospel -revelation is in sync with such traditional lore and arcane interest,...for after all,....the mystery is 'Christ in you, the hope of glory',....it is about the consciousness of the 'Christ', the anointing or unction of 'revelation' within the soul, that is essential, and is the only item of 'true substance' that counts for anything, no matter what eschatological narrative or mythologies you entertain. RIGHT NOW, if the Spirit of 'God' is dwelling within this very soul-body, then it is in my recognizing and communing with that divine spirit NOW where all of 'God' is available. This is what the older saints and mystics called 'practicing the presence of God'....abiding in the consciousness of 'God'.


--------
Ever Expanding Consciousness
https://freelightexpressblog.wordpress.com

Bladerunner

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Re: Divine Science - New Thought Christianity
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2018, 01:57:06 pm »

This "NO ONE KNOWS THE DAY OR THE HOUR?" refers to the Rapture of the CHurch (Body of Christ) and will initiate a period of time  that will include Daniel's70th week with the Millennium following.

Blade


According to Divine Science, the 'second coming' of 'Christ' happens individually and universally when one accepts and awakens to his own inner divinity, or 'Christ-consciousness' which is the consciousness of 'sonship', that one already IS a 'son of God', and this realization is in the 'spirit', in 'truth', and in such a condition, one can then truly worship the Father, and in that worship one's own sonship is established, or re-cognized. - it stands to logic and reason that one can only know 'God' as Father, if he is actually his own child or son. 'God' is a 'Father' by virture of the fact that he has children. - the title is 'generational'.

So, it is about abiding in the truth that is eternal, timeless, absolute, infinite and omnipresent, that is essential, while all that plays out in creation, is but the expression of Deity in space-time, through various dispensations, cycles, epochs, aeons, etc. What will 'unfold' will manifest or express in its own divine timing and within the re-cognitions of the souls attuned to the Spirit. Therefore there is not a fascination or pre-occupation with 'eschatology' or 'prophecy' in the space-time continuum, something that many traditional protestants seem to be infactuated with as to what will happen in the 'end times' or other issues of personal soteriology, etc. DS and many schools of New Thought interpret/translate traditional Christian terms in different ways, of a deeper figurative or esoteric dimension. The kingdom of heaven is here, NOW, since the allness of 'God' is here now.
 
OMNIPRESENCE.

And even still, Paul's writing contain many esoteric, even gnostic insights common to the mystery religions, as his own gospel -revelation is in sync with such traditional lore and arcane interest,...for after all,....the mystery is 'Christ in you, the hope of glory',....it is about the consciousness of the 'Christ', the anointing or unction of 'revelation' within the soul, that is essential, and is the only item of 'true substance' that counts for anything, no matter what eschatological narrative or mythologies you entertain. RIGHT NOW, if the Spirit of 'God' is dwelling within this very soul-body, then it is in my recognizing and communing with that divine spirit NOW where all of 'God' is available. This is what the older saints and mystics called 'practicing the presence of God'....abiding in the consciousness of 'God'.


--------

Ah, Man's  Sovereignty over GOD's Sovereignty, I see.....

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
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freelight

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Re: Divine Science - New Thought Christianity
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2018, 03:20:50 pm »

This "NO ONE KNOWS THE DAY OR THE HOUR?" refers to the Rapture of the CHurch (Body of Christ) and will initiate a period of time  that will include Daniel's70th week with the Millennium following.

Blade


Nah, thats your mis-interpretation of DS, coupled with your preconceptions and conditioned belief-system

According to Divine Science, the 'second coming' of 'Christ' happens individually and universally when one accepts and awakens to his own inner divinity, or 'Christ-consciousness' which is the consciousness of 'sonship', that one already IS a 'son of God', and this realization is in the 'spirit', in 'truth', and in such a condition, one can then truly worship the Father, and in that worship one's own sonship is established, or re-cognized. - it stands to logic and reason that one can only know 'God' as Father, if he is actually his own child or son. 'God' is a 'Father' by virture of the fact that he has children. - the title is 'generational'.

So, it is about abiding in the truth that is eternal, timeless, absolute, infinite and omnipresent, that is essential, while all that plays out in creation, is but the expression of Deity in space-time, through various dispensations, cycles, epochs, aeons, etc. What will 'unfold' will manifest or express in its own divine timing and within the re-cognitions of the souls attuned to the Spirit. Therefore there is not a fascination or pre-occupation with 'eschatology' or 'prophecy' in the space-time continuum, something that many traditional protestants seem to be infactuated with as to what will happen in the 'end times' or other issues of personal soteriology, etc. DS and many schools of New Thought interpret/translate traditional Christian terms in different ways, of a deeper figurative or esoteric dimension. The kingdom of heaven is here, NOW, since the allness of 'God' is here now.
 
OMNIPRESENCE.

And even still, Paul's writing contain many esoteric, even gnostic insights common to the mystery religions, as his own gospel -revelation is in sync with such traditional lore and arcane interest,...for after all,....the mystery is 'Christ in you, the hope of glory',....it is about the consciousness of the 'Christ', the anointing or unction of 'revelation' within the soul, that is essential, and is the only item of 'true substance' that counts for anything, no matter what eschatological narrative or mythologies you entertain. RIGHT NOW, if the Spirit of 'God' is dwelling within this very soul-body, then it is in my recognizing and communing with that divine spirit NOW where all of 'God' is available. This is what the older saints and mystics called 'practicing the presence of God'....abiding in the consciousness of 'God'.


--------

Ah, Man's  Sovereignty over GOD's Sovereignty, I see.....

Blade


Nah, thats your mis-interpretation of DS, coupled with your preconceptions and conditional theology. 'God' is  sovereign ultimately, by his own divine nature. If we are extensions, expressions, offspring of God partaking of that divine nature, then go figure. We are granted the qualities and attributes of 'God' by his indwelling Spirit, so naturally through the innate and granted powers of the soul (thoughts, mentality, consciousness) we can unfold and fulfilll our divine purpose and potential, fulfill God's will. - this includes the full potential and blessings of immortality. The soul fully married to and co-operating with Spirit enjoys the full bounty of Spirit.

New Thought spirituality holds that 'thought' (the mind and its use in coordinating one's life) is key to man's fulfillment, as the mind attunes and abides in harmony with Spirit. Such a concept, principles and ethic is found all thru-out the scriptures, and sacred writings in many traditions. Its pretty 'universal'.

~*~*~

"to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace"

"let this mind be in you that was also in Christ Jesus"

"they who are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God"

"even now you are the sons of God"

"that which is born of the Spirit is spirit".

"the kingdom of heaven is within you"

"know ye not that you are the temple of God?"



--------


Ever Expanding Consciousness
https://freelightexpressblog.wordpress.com
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