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Author Topic: Trinity cannot be validated via Scripture.  (Read 1212 times)

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Ted T.

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Re: Trinity cannot be validated via Scripture.
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2021, 11:00:39 am »
Trinity cannot be validated via Scripture.


If validate means to prove then I must agree but then nothing of the Spirit is proven by scripture.... Scripture attests to the truth but the understanding of that truth AS truth is from the Spirit, not the words themselves.


There are people who know the truth of GOD, HIS divinity and power, yet they exchange that truth for a belief in the lies about HIM and this reality because they love sin more than the truth... [/color]Rom 1.


Even the words
"GOD us love!" and "GOD is one!", the strongest attestation to the nature of YHWH in the Bible, is corrupted by sinners.


The Spirit I follow proclaims YHWH as the Unity of three Divine Persons as ONE GOD.


PS: the formatting options seem to be busted...
Wheat are NOT reborn / regenerate tares !!!

Matt 13:36-43  ...Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

38 the field is the world
good seed are of the kingdom sown by the Son of man
tares are of the wicked one 39 sown by the devil


Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
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patrick jane

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Re: Trinity cannot be validated via Scripture.
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2021, 11:46:19 am »
Trinity cannot be validated via Scripture.


If validate means to prove then I must agree but then nothing of the Spirit is proven by scripture.... Scripture attests to the truth but the understanding of that truth AS truth is from the Spirit, not the words themselves.


There are people who know the truth of GOD, HIS divinity and power, yet they exchange that truth for a belief in the lies about HIM and this reality because they love sin more than the truth... [/color]Rom 1.


Even the words
"GOD us love!" and "GOD is one!", the strongest attestation to the nature of YHWH in the Bible, is corrupted by sinners.


The Spirit I follow proclaims YHWH as the Unity of three Divine Persons as ONE GOD.


PS: the formatting options seem to be busted...
Thank you Ted, brother.

Chaplain Mark Schmidt

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Re: Trinity cannot be validated via Scripture.
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2021, 02:22:36 pm »
Trinity cannot be validated via Scripture.


If validate means to prove then I must agree but then nothing of the Spirit is proven by scripture.... Scripture attests to the truth but the understanding of that truth AS truth is from the Spirit, not the words themselves.


There are people who know the truth of GOD, HIS divinity and power, yet they exchange that truth for a belief in the lies about HIM and this reality because they love sin more than the truth... [/color]Rom 1.


Even the words
"GOD us love!" and "GOD is one!", the strongest attestation to the nature of YHWH in the Bible, is corrupted by sinners.


The Spirit I follow proclaims YHWH as the Unity of three Divine Persons as ONE GOD.


PS: the formatting options seem to be busted...

While I struggle with the trinity at times from a purely academic side, this reply is one of the best I have seen.  Thank you Ted. T
Say each prayer as if it is your very last conversation with God and live each day as your last day to glorify God by your actions and words.”

My rule of spiritual life.  6/22/2021
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patrick jane

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Re: Trinity cannot be validated via Scripture.
« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2021, 06:46:52 am »

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2021/march/matthew-barrett-simply-trinity-evangelical-revisionist.html








Evangelical Thinking on the Trinity Is Often Remarkably Revisionist




Theologian Matthew Barrett diagnoses our drift away from an orthodox understanding of Father, Son, and Spirit.


By and large, American evangelical Christians have conservative views of Scripture and morality. According to theologian Matthew Barrett, however, their most basic claims about God are often remarkably revisionist.

Barrett, professor at Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary and executive editor of Credo Magazine, is the author of Simply Trinity: The Unmanipulated Father, Son, and Spirit. The book—a follow-up to his 2019 work None Greater: The Undomesticated Attributes of God—does two things. First, it shows how a good portion of evangelical theology on the Trinity has drifted from the classical Christian tradition. Second, it recruits a veritable “dream team” of teachers from across that tradition to lead readers back to the safe harbor of biblical orthodoxy. The tone is accessible, but the sources are deep.

How has evangelicalism gone wrong in its understanding of the Trinity? Barrett ranges broadly, but he fixes on the development, in recent theology, of what he calls “social trinitarianism.” Proponents of this view, which is more of a common posture than a monolithic school, tend to conceive of the oneness of God as a community of persons. Barrett introduces some of its major figures, including liberal theologians like Jürgen Moltmann and Leonardo Boff and American conservative counterparts like Wayne Grudem and Bruce Ware.

The hallmark of social Trinitarianism is its willingness to appropriate the relationships between the persons of the Trinity as a model for various social projects. For liberals like Moltmann and Boff, this can mean invoking the equal status of Father, Son, and Spirit to advance an egalitarian vision of society. Conservatives like Grudem and Ware sometimes point to supposed hierarchies within the Trinity—namely, what they call the Son’s “eternal submission” to the Father—as grounds for their complementarian views on gender roles. (Plenty of complementarians disagree. Liam Goligher, pastor of Tenth Presbyterian Church, raised the alarm several years ago in a viral blog post accusing Grudem and Ware of undermining the unity that exists between Father, Son, and Spirit.) Simply Trinity provides a thorough analysis of how revisionist trends in Trinitarian theology have settled into the seemingly conservative world of American evangelicalism.

What’s the way home? In part two of his book, Barrett retrieves classical Trinitarian teachings, addressing the relationship of eternity and history while affirming the oneness and simplicity of God. The doctrines he covers—the “eternal generation” of the Son, the “eternal procession” of the Spirit, and the “inseparable operations” of the triune God—can sound rather elevated, but Barrett explains them with ease and clarity.

Amid these chapters, Barrett also offers a single chapter examining the claim by Grudem, Ware, and others that the Son is “eternally subordinate” to the Father. He rightly shows that the relations of origin between Father, Son, and Spirit profoundly affect our understanding of salvation.

The book isn’t perfect. Barrett doesn’t always go deep enough in addressing either the root causes of recent revisionism or the glories of classical Christian understandings of the Trinity. And he fails to locate the work of Trinitarian reflection within larger questions of Christian spiritual formation, which restricts the book’s focus mainly to matters of intellectual debate and biblical interpretation.

This doesn’t quite match the mode of classical Christian thought. Take the fourth-century church father Gregory of Nazianzus, for example. In his Five Theological Orations, he certainly addresses Bible passages about the Father, Son, and Spirit—but only after reflecting on the spiritual preparation needed for Trinitarian conversation.

In his Confessions, Augustine demonstrates that God, as characterized in Scripture, is a person unlike any other. But Social Trinitarianisms, of the left or the right, tend to make the mistake of drawing false analogies between God and other people. Unless we address that root malady, we’ll continuing seeing symptoms of theological error pop up from time to time.

Still, Simply Trinity goes a long way toward identifying and excising some of these harmful tendencies. For anyone who has read confusing blog posts about the Trinity in recent years, the book will help you regain your theological bearings. And for anyone seeking to recover the riches of worshiping one God in three persons, Barrett will prove a more than able guide.







Michael Allen is the John Dyer Trimble Professor of Systematic Theology at Reformed Theological Seminary in Orlando, Florida. He is a co-editor of The Oxford Handbook of Reformed Theology.

Bladerunner

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Re: Trinity cannot be validated via Scripture.
« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2021, 10:30:14 pm »

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2021/march/matthew-barrett-simply-trinity-evangelical-revisionist.html








Evangelical Thinking on the Trinity Is Often Remarkably Revisionist




Theologian Matthew Barrett diagnoses our drift away from an orthodox understanding of Father, Son, and Spirit.


By and large, American evangelical Christians have conservative views of Scripture and morality. According to theologian Matthew Barrett, however, their most basic claims about God are often remarkably revisionist.

Barrett, professor at Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary and executive editor of Credo Magazine, is the author of Simply Trinity: The Unmanipulated Father, Son, and Spirit. The book—a follow-up to his 2019 work None Greater: The Undomesticated Attributes of God—does two things. First, it shows how a good portion of evangelical theology on the Trinity has drifted from the classical Christian tradition. Second, it recruits a veritable “dream team” of teachers from across that tradition to lead readers back to the safe harbor of biblical orthodoxy. The tone is accessible, but the sources are deep.

How has evangelicalism gone wrong in its understanding of the Trinity? Barrett ranges broadly, but he fixes on the development, in recent theology, of what he calls “social trinitarianism.” Proponents of this view, which is more of a common posture than a monolithic school, tend to conceive of the oneness of God as a community of persons. Barrett introduces some of its major figures, including liberal theologians like Jürgen Moltmann and Leonardo Boff and American conservative counterparts like Wayne Grudem and Bruce Ware.

The hallmark of social Trinitarianism is its willingness to appropriate the relationships between the persons of the Trinity as a model for various social projects. For liberals like Moltmann and Boff, this can mean invoking the equal status of Father, Son, and Spirit to advance an egalitarian vision of society. Conservatives like Grudem and Ware sometimes point to supposed hierarchies within the Trinity—namely, what they call the Son’s “eternal submission” to the Father—as grounds for their complementarian views on gender roles. (Plenty of complementarians disagree. Liam Goligher, pastor of Tenth Presbyterian Church, raised the alarm several years ago in a viral blog post accusing Grudem and Ware of undermining the unity that exists between Father, Son, and Spirit.) Simply Trinity provides a thorough analysis of how revisionist trends in Trinitarian theology have settled into the seemingly conservative world of American evangelicalism.

What’s the way home? In part two of his book, Barrett retrieves classical Trinitarian teachings, addressing the relationship of eternity and history while affirming the oneness and simplicity of God. The doctrines he covers—the “eternal generation” of the Son, the “eternal procession” of the Spirit, and the “inseparable operations” of the triune God—can sound rather elevated, but Barrett explains them with ease and clarity.

Amid these chapters, Barrett also offers a single chapter examining the claim by Grudem, Ware, and others that the Son is “eternally subordinate” to the Father. He rightly shows that the relations of origin between Father, Son, and Spirit profoundly affect our understanding of salvation.

The book isn’t perfect. Barrett doesn’t always go deep enough in addressing either the root causes of recent revisionism or the glories of classical Christian understandings of the Trinity. And he fails to locate the work of Trinitarian reflection within larger questions of Christian spiritual formation, which restricts the book’s focus mainly to matters of intellectual debate and biblical interpretation.

This doesn’t quite match the mode of classical Christian thought. Take the fourth-century church father Gregory of Nazianzus, for example. In his Five Theological Orations, he certainly addresses Bible passages about the Father, Son, and Spirit—but only after reflecting on the spiritual preparation needed for Trinitarian conversation.

In his Confessions, Augustine demonstrates that God, as characterized in Scripture, is a person unlike any other. But Social Trinitarianisms, of the left or the right, tend to make the mistake of drawing false analogies between God and other people. Unless we address that root malady, we’ll continuing seeing symptoms of theological error pop up from time to time.

Still, Simply Trinity goes a long way toward identifying and excising some of these harmful tendencies. For anyone who has read confusing blog posts about the Trinity in recent years, the book will help you regain your theological bearings. And for anyone seeking to recover the riches of worshiping one God in three persons, Barrett will prove a more than able guide.







Michael Allen is the John Dyer Trimble Professor of Systematic Theology at Reformed Theological Seminary in Orlando, Florida. He is a co-editor of The Oxford Handbook of Reformed Theology.


then they do not read the scripture literally as GOD Authored it.

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

 

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