patrick jane forums

When a Trinitarian cannot show proof of Jesus being God in the flesh they fall back to the "Second Person of or in God"

I have been told I'm not trine because I am not of orthodox trinity view...so some of what you are saying will slip by me without understanding because the only trinity I am familiar with is 1. scripture and 2. what most non catholic churches I have heard teach, which is NOT orthodoxy.

they then say that Jesus was actually God in the flesh, reverting back to the same argument that they couldn't validate the very first time, thereby contradicting themselves before they even get started..

I believe there are two ways that Jesus was God in the flesh...first, John 1:14, I take by faith and 2. as the ONLY BEGOTTEN Son of God, He would be God in flesh...John 3:16

so when they are asked a question, which is validated by scripture, "if Jesus were God in the Flesh, then whose will did he come to do if not his own?"

The Father's...as of above, there are two ways to understand it, 1. that of the government analogy that I posted in my first response and 2. as the Son, He would have a Father, just as at His baptism we see the HS appearing as a dove all the while the voice of God is speaking from heaven...you see, if Jesus took on the flesh of man, He would need the will of the NON flesh portion (for lack of a better word) to be the voice/will/command that He would follow.  Not to mention He is our example of obedience.

this is where the jumbled mess comes in and all the deflections because they know they cannot explain that verse without making Jesus out to be a liar.

which verse am I supposedly deflecting?  You lost me again, just like you not specifying what law you are referring to is confusing me.

The Deity of the Holy Spirit is factual and Jesus makes it so when he said " God is a Spirit".. where does the Father come in???.... He calls God his father, who is, in fact the Holy Ghost/Spirit.

and yet in the case of Jesus baptism we see the Father speaking from heaven while the Spirit descends like a dove....I am always confused by non trins who try to use the Father is spirit as a way to negate Jesus being God in the flesh.

Matthew 1:20 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost."

Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."

It doesn't say shall be God, it says Son of God.

as son of God, He is the God man which is what I have always heard taught.

Twisting scripture and dividing God up into 3 separate beings has no solid foundation in scripture, anywhere...

now it sounds like you are back to orthodoxy rather than mainstream.

People who utilize Paul as a defense do not comprehend what it is that Paul is actually saying...

I love it when they say that "Paul says we are free from the Law of God." then they say that Paul says that the Law is sin and death... completely ignoring the Question Paul stated Romans 7:7 " What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet."

you are confusing two different laws...when Paul talks about the law he is referring to the Mosaic law or the ten commandments which are like a summary...the law of sin and death is a natural law thus very different.

they completely reject Paul..

Paul even says that the Law is Holy, and the commandment is holy, and good and just." Romans 7:12

do you know why the Mosaic law is good and holy and just?  It is because it is a more detailed understanding of the law of Love which is the law we are called to obey.  Matthew 22:40...iow's Love is holy, good, and just...amen and the Law (Mosaic) teaches us what real Love is.

how would people know they were sinning if God hadn't told that what not to do?

Thus the law...not sure why the question but that is the purpose of the law as in the Mosaic law, the law of sin and death is a very different law.