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Author Topic: Salvation, Doctrine and Rightly Dividing - MAD  (Read 8315 times)

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patrick jane

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Re: Salvation, Doctrine and Rightly Dividing - MAD
« Reply #52 on: June 16, 2019, 09:15:08 pm »
A Look at History With and Without Israel


By Justin Johnson
History is dated around the incarnation of Christ. There is history before Christ (B.C), and the present time with Christ (A.D.).

There is another way to look at history: when God worked through Israel.

Most of Bible history concerns that one nation God ordained with a promise to Israel’s forefathers: “I will make of thee a great nation” and “in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed” (Gen 12:3; Gen 22:18).

This Hebrew nation was to be God’s channel of blessing to the nations of the world.

Israel was not to be reckoned among the nations (Num 23:9). Any nation that was not Israel was known as Gentile.

God has not dealt with any nation as he did with Israel (Num 23:9; Psa 147:20). When God works through Israel, there must also be Gentiles: nations that would receive blessing (or curse) through God’s working with Israel.

A Look at History

From Adam to Abraham God did not work through any single nation. There was no promise, no Israel; no Jew, no Gentile.

With the giving of promises to Abraham, their covenants, and law, there was the Israel of God; a separation of Jew and Gentile.

We see in history a period with Christ, and a period without Christ. We can also see a period with Israel (Jew and Gentile) and a period without Israel (neither Jew nor Gentile).

When seen together we can start to see God’s purpose in history.



In the beginning there was a period without Jew or Gentile and without Christ. This resulted in man’s failure.

In time past there was a second period with Israel (Jew and Gentile) but without Christ. This resulted in Israel’s failure.

Since Christ, there is a period with Israel (Jew and Gentile) and with Christ. This will result in the salvation of Israel and the blessing of the nations.

Fourthly, there is a period without Israel (no Jew nor Gentile) and with Christ. This results in the salvation of a creature not mentioned in Israel’s history called the church, the Body of Christ (Rom 11:32; Gal 3:28; Col 3:11; Eph 2:15).

God Working in History



With Israel God is operating with nations, and intervening on earth according to his covenants with Israel.

Without Israel God is not operating with nations, and does not intervene on earth according to his covenants with Israel.

Without Christ man fails at attaining any sort of righteousness before God (Rom 3:23).

With Christ God succeeds at providing salvation by his grace through faith.

Few Christians are ignorant that we are now living in the time of history with Christ, but few understand that we are living in a period without Israel, spiritual or otherwise (2 Cor 5:17; Gal 3:28; Gal 6:15).

“For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.” – Romans 11:25

– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –








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Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


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Re: Salvation, Doctrine and Rightly Dividing - MAD
« Reply #53 on: June 17, 2019, 07:53:43 pm »
PJ and others that follow the MAD doctrine...I am interested to see if you read the following passages the same as I do.

We are close to Acts 17 but not quite.. Acts 15 will do.

Acts 15:5 (KJV).."But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses."

Here the Pharisees are telling Paul and company, the law of Moses needs to be followed to be saved (circumcised)

Acts 15:7 (KJV).."And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe."

Here Paul is telling them, that Jesus had to Paul to teach it to the Gentiles as well as to the Jews. (I might add, the Jews were to be taught first then the Gentiles.)

Acts 15:8.(KJV).."And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;"

Notice the last bit of scripture."even as He did unto us" Us are JEWS and it is apparent they also had the Holy Ghost as previous time... In the next verse, Paul tells them the Gentiles and Jews are the same.

Acts 15:9(KJV).."And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith."

I do believe I just read where the Church started with the Jews in Acts 2. "even as He did unto us"

Of course, at this time the Church (Body of Christ) is not known but it has already started. For all of those that believed and received the Holy Spirit during the transition period of Acts are part of the Church. Those that died during this same time period "in Jesus" are in heaven awaiting the rest of the "first resurrection" to commence.

Blade








« Last Edit: June 17, 2019, 08:35:37 pm by patrick jane »
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
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patrick jane

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Re: Salvation, Doctrine and Rightly Dividing - MAD
« Reply #54 on: June 17, 2019, 08:35:50 pm »
PJ and others that follow the MAD doctrine...I am interested to see if you read the following passages the same as I do.

We are close to Acts 17 but not quite.. Acts 15 will do.

Acts 15:5 (KJV).."But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses."

Here the Pharisees are telling Paul and company, the law of Moses needs to be followed to be saved (circumcised)

Acts 15:7 (KJV).."And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe."

Here Paul is telling them, that Jesus had to Paul to teach it to the Gentiles as well as to the Jews. (I might add, the Jews were to be taught first then the Gentiles.)

Acts 15:8.(KJV).."And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;"

Notice the last bit of scripture."even as He did unto us" Us are JEWS and it is apparent they also had the Holy Ghost as previous time... In the next verse, Paul tells them the Gentiles and Jews are the same.

Acts 15:9(KJV).."And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith."

I do believe I just read where the Church started with the Jews in Acts 2. "even as He did unto us"

Of course, at this time the Church (Body of Christ) is not known but it has already started. For all of those that believed and received the Holy Spirit during the transition period of Acts are part of the Church. Those that died during this same time period "in Jesus" are in heaven awaiting the rest of the "first resurrection" to commence.

Blade

Yes, I agree Blade. But there are many so called MADs that would not. There are many divisions within MAD including the Acts 2 group, Acts 9, Acts 13 and Acts 28. So maybe I'm not even MAD but I agree with so much of the interpretation. I would have to say the the Body Of Christ (BOC), the Church, started at @ Acts 2.
Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


Copyright Disclaimer: All audio and music belongs to the owner/creator. This is a non-profit. Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.

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Re: Salvation, Doctrine and Rightly Dividing - MAD
« Reply #55 on: June 19, 2019, 11:27:36 pm »
PJ and others that follow the MAD doctrine...I am interested to see if you read the following passages the same as I do.

We are close to Acts 17 but not quite.. Acts 15 will do.

Acts 15:5 (KJV).."But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses."

Here the Pharisees are telling Paul and company, the law of Moses needs to be followed to be saved (circumcised)

Acts 15:7 (KJV).."And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe."

Here Paul is telling them, that Jesus had to Paul to teach it to the Gentiles as well as to the Jews. (I might add, the Jews were to be taught first then the Gentiles.)

Acts 15:8.(KJV).."And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;"

Notice the last bit of scripture."even as He did unto us" Us are JEWS and it is apparent they also had the Holy Ghost as previous time... In the next verse, Paul tells them the Gentiles and Jews are the same.

Acts 15:9(KJV).."And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith."

I do believe I just read where the Church started with the Jews in Acts 2. "even as He did unto us"

Of course, at this time the Church (Body of Christ) is not known but it has already started. For all of those that believed and received the Holy Spirit during the transition period of Acts are part of the Church. Those that died during this same time period "in Jesus" are in heaven awaiting the rest of the "first resurrection" to commence.

Blade

Yes, I agree Blade. But there are many so called MADs that would not. There are many divisions within MAD including the Acts 2 group, Acts 9, Acts 13 and Acts 28. So maybe I'm not even MAD but I agree with so much of the interpretation. I would have to say the the Body Of Christ (BOC), the Church, started at @ Acts 2.

Whoa, I never knew there were so many dispensations for those of MAD...Talking about hyper-dispensation.

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

patrick jane

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Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


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Re: Salvation, Doctrine and Rightly Dividing - MAD
« Reply #57 on: December 09, 2019, 08:32:09 pm »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZJCT-Z-m18

It seems I agree with Him on most points except spiritual Israel.

The Bible speaks of the Elect...This elect is divided in several sections...
1. The Church (body of Christ)  includes the 144,000
2. The OT Saints
3. The Tribulation Saints
4. The Remnant of Israel....

Where do they live according to the Bible.....
1. In Heaven,,,,are Kings and Priest
2. In Heaven and earth (millennium)....
3. In Heaven and Earth (servants to the temple)
4. On Earth.

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
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patrick jane

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Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


Copyright Disclaimer: All audio and music belongs to the owner/creator. This is a non-profit. Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.

patrick jane

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Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


Copyright Disclaimer: All audio and music belongs to the owner/creator. This is a non-profit. Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.

patrick jane

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Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


Copyright Disclaimer: All audio and music belongs to the owner/creator. This is a non-profit. Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.

patrick jane

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Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


Copyright Disclaimer: All audio and music belongs to the owner/creator. This is a non-profit. Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.

patrick jane

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Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


Copyright Disclaimer: All audio and music belongs to the owner/creator. This is a non-profit. Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.

patrick jane

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Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


Copyright Disclaimer: All audio and music belongs to the owner/creator. This is a non-profit. Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.

patrick jane

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Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


Copyright Disclaimer: All audio and music belongs to the owner/creator. This is a non-profit. Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.

 

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