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Author Topic: God In The Holocaust  (Read 1244 times)

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Olde Tymer

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God In The Holocaust
« on: February 18, 2020, 07:42:16 am »
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One has to ask, in point of fact there has been more than one rabbi ponder: How is it that so many of Moses' people were caught up in the Holocaust? Where was God during all that? Why didn't He step in and do something to protect His chosen people?

To find an answer to that question one need look no further than Ex 34:6-7, Lev 26:3-38, Deut 27:15-26, and Deut 28:1-69. In other words: the Jews, as a people, brought it on themselves in accordance with the covenant that their ancestors agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

A covenant is essentially a contract. Well; if God were to fail to fulfill His end of the agreement; then He would be in breach of contract; which is not only unethical, but also uncivil. Long story short: the covenant requires Him to lower the boom on His people for failure to honor their end of the agreement; and you can see the extent of the damage for yourself in the scripture references in the above paragraph.

There are numerous blessings that God is contractually obligated to fulfill too; so the covenant isn't all one-sided; viz: compliance with the covenant accrues blessings; while breaching the covenant accrues curses. Anybody who has read the Old Testament can attest that God came down on His own people quite often for breaching the covenant; and just as often quite cruelly. The curses that Lev 26:3-38, Deut 27:15-26, and Deut 28:1-69 list are very disturbing; and when examining them, one cannot help but realize they're reading a synopsis of the Jews' history.

The status of God's chosen people has its advantages; but also its disadvantages; viz: the status of God's chosen people is not something to be proud of; but rather, something to be afraid of because the covenant's God is not the kind of judge influenced by favoritism. No; if anything, Moses' people run the risk of being judged even more severely than Gentiles because of their privileged position and the insider's knowledge they were given of His likes and dislikes.

Amos 3:1-2 . . Hear this word that Yhvh has spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying: You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities. (cf. Luke 12:42-48)
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Olde Tymer

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Re: God In The Holocaust
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2020, 07:22:56 am »
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FAQ: Is the world supposed to believe it was the Jews' own fault that they were rounded up like cattle, stripped of their dignity, their property, their wealth, and their possessions, enslaved, starved, deprived of basic human necessities, tortured, subjected to Frankenstein medical experiments, worked to death, and gassed, shot, and incinerated by the millions?

A: If the covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God is binding; then yes; the Jews, as a people, are definitely at fault for what happened to them. There's really no mystery to this: it's all laid out in black and white at Lev 26:14-38, Deut 27:15-26, and Deut 28:15-69.

FAQ: God caused an event whose collateral damage led to the deaths of all those other people too besides the Jews?

A: We're not saying God engineered the Holocaust. All we're saying is: He stood by and did nothing to prevent a number of His own people being taken in it. In other words: the essential thing that Moses' people brought upon themselves was the loss of God's providence. I think God took advantage of Hitler's agenda as an opportunity; viz: a convenient means of throwing His people to the wolves like He did in the Old Testament with Nebuchadnezzar.

The covenant Moses' people agreed upon with God obligates Him to protect them from misfortune when they're compliant with it; but the same time the covenant also obligates God to lower the boom on them when they're not compliant with it. If there is only one good thing to come out of the Holocaust is that it proves to the world that God is reliable, viz: He can be trusted to honor His commitments.
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Olde Tymer

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Re: God In The Holocaust
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2020, 08:16:57 am »
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FAQ: Supposing there is no one to blame for the loss of Jewish life in the Holocaust but the Jews themselves? If so; then how many of them would've had to breach the covenant to put them all in so much danger?

A: It's surprising how few Jews it takes to ruin it for all the rest. For example the incident at Ai in the 7th chapter of Joshua. The insubordination of one insignificant Jewish man-- just one --caused God to stop assisting Joshua's army in battle. As a result, 36 men were needlessly killed in action; and ultimately capital punishment was inflicted upon not only the insubordinate man himself, but also his sons and his daughters. God's accusation? "Israel has sinned" (Josh 7:11)

See that? God didn't accuse the perpetrator; no; He accused Israel. In other words: in that particular incident; the sin of just one Jew under Joshua's command became the sin of all the Jews under his command; viz: the whole kit and caboodle-- lock, stock, and barrel; and Israel could proceed no further with its conquest of Canaan until the guilty man was executed.

And then there's this incident:

2Sam 21:1 . . Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David sought the presence of the Lord. And the Lord said: It is for Saul and his bloody house, because he put the Gibeonites to death.

Joshua agreed to a non-aggression pact with the Gibeonites during the conquest of Canaan (Josh 9:3-16). Saul, when king, dishonored the pact. He apparently got away with it; but not his countrymen, no; God slammed them for what Saul did; and that posthumously.

In another Old Testament incident; God lowered the boom on 70,000 Jews. What did they do to deserve it? Absolutely nothing. The insubordination of just one Jewish man caused their deaths. King David breached the covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God by taking an unwarranted census. As a result; those 70,000 Jews went to their deaths through no fault of their own; it was all on David.

I can't imagine what just one Jew would have to do in order to bring about the deaths of six million of his fellows; but if a whole bunch of them throughout the world were breaching the covenant all at the same time, I guess that could become a sort of force-multiplier.

That's pretty scary when you think about it because more than fifty percent of the Jews living in the State of Israel right now today are hiloni (secular). In my estimation, that's easily enough insubordinate Jews all in one place for God to justify bringing down the whole country; and then if you combine those with the number of insubordinate Jews around the rest of the world, including the USA; now you can appreciate just how insecure Israel's future really is.

Another possibility is that the generation caught by the Holocaust, was caught not only due to their own breaches of the covenant, but also due to breaches committed by generations preceding them.

Ex 34:6-7 . . Then Yhvh passed by in front of Moses and proclaimed: Yhvh, Yhvh God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in loving-kindness and truth; who keeps loving-kindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished: visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations.

That statement is included in the covenant, so God is morally obligated to honor it lest He be found in breach of contract. But it just goes to show that sins have a way of snow-balling from one generation to the next till the snowball is so big that it triggers an act of God; which is disturbing because it tells me that it's not impossible that the Jews of today are endangering the Jews of tomorrow by their current breaches of the covenant-- breaches that according to Ex 34:6-7, God will by no means sweep under the rug.

Wouldn't it be awful if the next Holocaust took place right inside the Jews' own homeland? I sincerely believe that Saddam Hussein's SCUDS were a wake-up call. Next time; incoming missiles just may contain nuclear warheads instead of high explosives; and Jacob's people will be poisoned to death with radiation instead of pesticide.

The upside to the Holocaust is its value as historical evidence for the existence of the covenant's God. It is also valuable as historical evidence that the covenant was still in force for Moses' people as recent as the middle of the last century. True; the covenant is obsolete where Christians are concerned; but that old dog can still bark.

I believe it's okay to pity the Jews as per Lam 1:12; but I do not believe it is appropriate to let them get away with playing the victim all the time. That's just a red herring diverting attention away from their own chronic failure to honor the covenant in a manner consistent with their God's requirements.
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Ted T.

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Re: God In The Holocaust
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2020, 12:25:19 pm »
FAQ: God caused an event whose collateral damage led to the deaths of all those other people too besides the Jews?

A: We're not saying God engineered the Holocaust.


Why not?


We know GOD punishes HIS own people for breaking the covenant and we know HE punishes the nations most severely:
Isaiah 34:1  Come near, O nations, to hear! Listen, O people! Let the earth and all that is in it listen, the world and all that comes from it. 2 For the Lord’s anger is against all the nations. And His anger is against all their armies. He has destroyed all of them. He has given them over to be killed. 3 Their dead will be thrown out. Their dead bodies will give off a bad smell. The mountains will flow with their blood. ...etc, etc.


Where's the problem?
Wheat are NOT reborn / regenerate tares !!!

Matt 13:36-43  ...Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

38 the field is the world
good seed are of the kingdom sown by the Son of man
tares are of the wicked one 39 sown by the devil


Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Olde Tymer

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Re: God In The Holocaust
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2020, 07:59:59 am »
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FAQ: If true that the Jews, as a people, brought the Holocaust upon themselves in accordance with the language of the covenant that their ancestors agreed upon with God; then why don't they own up to it instead of always going about playing the victim and acting so indignant?

A: Well; sad to say: the Jewish people, on the whole, are famous for their obtuse attitudes; not only in the Bible; but in real life too. It's so common and so chronic that we're forced to conclude that their attitudes are actually quite systemic. Finding a Jew who will admit they are wrong— wrong about anything —is like searching for the Loch Ness monster and the lost city of Atlantis.

The average John Q and Jane Doe Jew is so defensive, so reactive, so stiff-necked, so adamant, so self-righteous, so arrogant, and so infected with a chosen-people superiority complex; that they simply cannot tolerate criticism; not even criticism coming straight from the mouth of the very God with whom they boast an elite association; for example:

Zech 7:11-12 . . But they refused to listen; and they turned a rebellious shoulder; and they made their ears heavy, not to hear. And they made their heart [as hard] as a shamir, [in order] not to listen to the Torah and to the words that the Lord of Hosts sent, through His spirit by the earlier prophets. And there was great anger from the Lord of Hosts.

Dan 9:5-6 . .We have sinned and have dealt iniquitously; we have dealt wickedly and have rebelled, turning away from Your commandments and from Your ordinances.

Dan 9:10-11 . .And we have not hearkened to the voice of the Lord our God, to follow His teachings, which He placed before us by the hand of His servants, the prophets. And all Israel have transgressed Your teaching, turning away, not heeding Your voice, and the curse and the oath, which are written in the Law of Moses, the servant of God, have befallen us, for we have sinned against Him.

Jews have been playing the victim card for decades, and getting away with it too; so it really riles them whenever somebody dares to suggest that the misfortunes that have overtaken them down through the years, as well as the problems that plague them now, are due to exactly what Daniel and Zechariah said. For example:

The covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God requires Him to preserve peace in the land of Israel when His people are compliant. Well; the land has been in a state of war since the day of its inception in 1948 and nobody is safe over there; and were Israel not allied with the USA and Britain, I fear the Arab world would crush it practically overnight.

The covenant also obligates God to restore Israel's borders when they are compliant. Well; the State of Israel doesn't even have control over the Temple Mount let alone its covenanted borders.

The covenant also obligates God to provide the State of Israel with abundant rain when the people are compliant. Well; if not for ground water, Israel wouldn't have much of an agriculture. Alas, the historical Jordan River has been reduced to a toxic trickle of its former self because so much water is pumped out of it for irrigation.
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