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Author Topic: Experiencing Jehovah's Witnesses  (Read 5458 times)

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Olde Tymer

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Re: Experiencing Jehovah's Witnesses
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2018, 04:09:38 pm »
.
MEDIATION

1Tim 2:5 . . For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus.

On page 1129 of the Watchtower publication Aid To Bible Understanding a mediator is defined as one who interposes between two parties at variance to reconcile them: an intercessor.

Here's a question that someone wrote in to the "Questions From Readers" section of the April 01, 1976 issue of Watchtower magazine, asking:

Is Jesus the mediator only for anointed Christians? (a.k.a. the 144,000)

The answer given in the magazine is YES.

The magazine's answer is corroborated on page 1130 of Aid To Bible Understanding where it says that the 144,000 are the only ones who have the mediator; a.k.a. Jesus Christ. (1John 2:1)

Intercession for non anointed Witnesses is accomplished on the coattails of the 144,000; viz: Jesus Christ is an indirect, second party mediator for the rank and file via their affiliation with the Watchtower Society.

It's sort of like buying insurance from Allstate. The company doesn't sell direct; its business is conducted through brokers. In essence, that's what the Society presumes itself: Jesus Christ's mediation brokerage.

So then; when a Jehovah's Witness either defects or is disfellowshipped, it breaks the pipeline to the mediator that they enjoyed within the Society's fold; right quick losing all contact with God, and placing themselves in grave danger of the calamities depicted in the book of Revelation.

Bottom line: According to Watchtower Society theology; it is impossible for non-anointed people to be on peaceful terms with God apart from affiliation with the Society's anointed class, a.k.a. the faithful and wise steward.

In other words: Christ's mediation as per 1Tim 2:5 is accomplished via a chain of communication that begins with Christ's association with the faithful and wise steward; and from thence to the rest of humanity. Removing the faithful and wise steward from the chain cuts humanity off from Christ; thus leaving them with no way to reconcile with God.
_
« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 07:41:50 am by Olde Tymer »

Bladerunner

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Re: Experiencing Jehovah's Witnesses
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2018, 06:55:19 pm »
.
MEDIATION FOR THE EARTHLY CLASS

1Tim 2:5 . . For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus.

On page 1129 of the Watchtower publication Aid To Bible Understanding a mediator is defined as one who interposes between two parties at variance to reconcile them: an intercessor.

Here's a question that someone wrote in to the "Questions From Readers" section of the April 01, 1976 issue of Watchtower magazine, asking:

Is Jesus the mediator only for anointed Christians? (a.k.a. the 144,000)

The answer given in the magazine is YES.

The magazine's answer is corroborated on page 1130 of Aid To Bible Understanding where it says that the 144,000 are the only ones who have the mediator; a.k.a. Jesus Christ. (1John 2:1)

Intercession for non anointed Witnesses is accomplished on the coattails of the 144,000; viz: Jesus Christ is an indirect, second party mediator for the rank and file via their affiliation with the Watchtower Society.

It's sort of like buying insurance from Allstate. The company doesn't sell direct; its business is conducted through brokers. In essence, that's what the Society presumes itself: Jesus Christ's mediation brokerage.

So then; when a Jehovah's Witness either defects or is dis-fellowshipped, it breaks the pipeline to the mediator that he enjoyed within the Society's fold; and he right quick loses all contact with God; and finds himself in grave danger of the calamities depicted in the book of Revelation.

Bottom line: According to Watchtower Society theology; it is impossible for non-anointed people to be on peaceful terms with God apart from affiliation with the Society's anointed class, a.k.a. the faithful and wise steward.

In other words: Christ's mediation as per 1Tim 2:5 is accomplished via a chain of communication that begins with Christ's association with the faithful and wise steward; and from thence to the rest of humanity. Removing the faithful and wise steward from the chain cuts humanity off from Christ; thus leaving them with no way to reconcile with God.
_


Plain and simple, Th Jehovah's Witness (Watchtower Ministries) are a CULT!

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
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Olde Tymer

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Re: Experiencing Jehovah's Witnesses
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2018, 09:27:10 am »
.
CHRIST IN HEAVEN

Q: 1Cor 15:50 clearly testifies that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Wouldn't that fact alone preclude the possibility of Christ's crucified dead body returning to life?

A: First, and foremost; it was essential that Christ's crucified dead body be returned to life or otherwise his prediction as per John 2:19-22, and the Scriptures as per Ps 16:10, Luke 24:44-46, and Acts 2:24-32 would be easily proven false.

The chemistry of Jesus' original body had to be the same when it revived. However, as 1Cor 15:50 says: his body's original material is unsuitable for life in a celestial environment. So then, in order for Jesus to be up there as a physical being, the chemistry of his body had to be reformulated.

God is very creative so I seriously doubt that flesh and blood are the only materials that He has to work with. I also seriously doubt that spirit material is the default material when flesh and blood are not an option; I mean, after all, if God was able to design the human body in its original form to inhabit the Earth, I see no reason why He would not be able to redesign it to inhabit a celestial abode.

Q: When would the chemistry of Christ's body have undergone this reformulation?

A: Some day all of Christ's believing followers will be physically resurrected and taken up to meet the Lord in the air (1Thes 4:13-17). On the way up, their natural bodies will undergo a sudden and miraculous transformation (1Cor 15:51-53). They'll become superhuman; viz: deathless and ageless.

I think it's pretty safe to assume that Christ's crucified body underwent a similar transformation while on the way up to heaven as per Acts 1:9 so that today his body is no longer a normal human body; but instead, a superhuman body to which all his believing followers' bodies will one day conform. (Php 4:20-21)


NOTE: Although the chemistry of Christ's body has been reformulated; it's still capable of dining upon ordinary foods and beverages. (Mark 14:25 and Luke 22:16-18)

Q: If Jesus Christ's corpse really did return to life; then how did he get it into a room without opening the door? (John 20:19)

A: Christ walked on water, restored withered limbs, cured people born blind, healed serious diseases like leprosy, restored dead bodies to life, controlled the weather, multiplied fish and bread, turned water into wine, and levitated. Plus; he once said that rocks could be made to speak. (Luke 19:40)

What's one more miracle, more or less? Walking through walls? Disappearing and reappearing? How hard could any of that really be for a man with the powers of God at his disposal?

It's curious how people can say they believe in miracles but yet cannot believe that God has sufficient control over the laws of nature to make a physical human body pass through solid objects.

Q: Well; if Jehovah has enough control over the laws of nature to pass a physical human body through closed doors, then couldn't He pass the arch angel Michael through the door as a spirit and then materialize him on the other side as a human in order to communicate with his friends?

A: That would be acceptable if only there were some record of it in the New Testament. But it is an irrefutable fact that the New Testament not even one time, on any occasion, nor under any circumstances, nor in any situation, either attests, alleges, alludes, or states that an angel named Michael appeared to Christ's friends cloaked in a human avatar. That doctrine doesn't come from the New Testament. It's a humanistic fantasy.
_
« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 01:28:30 pm by Olde Tymer »

Olde Tymer

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Re: Experiencing Jehovah's Witnesses
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2018, 05:16:09 am »
.
SPIRIT BODY VS SPIRITUAL BODY

  1Cor 15:44 . . It is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one.

Watch as I misquote that passage because the difference, though subtle. Is significant.

"It is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spirit body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spirit one."

No; it doesn't say spirit body but nevertheless that's what some people have decided it ought to say.

The Greek word translated "spiritual" is ambiguous. It doesn't necessarily refer to the characteristics of a body with the consistency of thin air. Below is a list of spiritual things that bear absolutely no resemblance whatsoever to the bodily chemistry of an angel or a demon.

Spiritual gifts (Rom 1:11)
Spiritual law (Rom 7:14)
Spiritual things (Rom 15:27)
Spiritual people (1Cor 2:15)
Spiritual nourishment (1Cor 10:3)
Spiritual water (1Cor 10:4)
Spiritual rock (1Cor 10:4)
Spiritual counselors (Gal 6:1)
Spiritual blessings (Eph 1:3)
Spiritual music (Eph 5:19)
Spiritual understanding (Col 1:9)
Spiritual housing (1Pet 2:5)
Spiritual sacrifices (1Pet 2:5)

I'm inclined to believe that the spiritual body spoken of at 1Cor 15:44 is in no way composed of a gaseous substance. Of what material it is composed I don't know; but I do know at least four things about it.

1• The spiritual body is patterned after Christ's glorified body.

Phil 3:20-21 . .Our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

2• The spiritual body is capable of dining upon ordinary foods.

Luke 22:15-16 . . I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. For I tell you: I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God.

3• The spiritual body is capable of imbibing ordinary beverages.

Matt 26:29 . . I tell you: I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom.

4• The spiritual body is capable of being seen by the naked eye.

Acts 1:11 . . Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched him go into heaven.

Rev 1:7 . . Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him
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Olde Tymer

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Re: Experiencing Jehovah's Witnesses
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2018, 09:39:13 am »
.
CHRIST'S PARABLES

Fiction can be defined as stories about people, places, and events that, though untrue; are plausible; viz: realistic.

Fantasy can be defined as stories about people, places, and events that are not only untrue; but implausible; viz: unrealistic.

For example: a story about a wooden boy like Pinocchio is unrealistic; while a story about a boy with autism is realistic. The difference between Pinocchio and the autistic boy is that the one is compatible with normal reality; while the other is far removed from normal reality.

I have yet to read even one of Jesus Christ's parables that could not possibly be a real-life story. They're all actually quite believable-- banquets, stewards, weddings, farmers sowing seed, pearls, lost sheep, fish nets, women losing coins, sons leaving home, wineskins bursting, tares among the wheat, leavened bread, barren fig trees, the blind leading the blind, et al.

Now; if Christ had told one that alleged the moon was made of green cheese; we would have good reason to believe that at least that one was fantasy; but none of them are like that. No; there's nothing out of the ordinary in his parables. At best; Christ's parables might qualify as fiction; but never fantasy because none of them are so far removed from the normal round of human experience that they have no basis in reality whatsoever.

Luke 16:19-31 is commonly alleged to be a parable; which of course implies that the story is fiction; and some would even say fantasy. But the parable theory has a fatal flaw. Abraham is not a fictional character: he's a real-life man; the father of the Hebrew people, held in very high esteem by at least three of the world's prominent religions: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. And he's also the friend of God (Isa 41:8). I simply cannot believe that Jesus Christ-- a man famous among normal Christians for his honesty and integrity --would say something untrue about a famous real-life man; especially about one of his Father's buddies.

And on top of that, the story quotes Abraham a number of times. Well; if the story is fiction, then Jesus Christ is on record testifying that Abraham said things that he didn't really say; which is a clear violation of the commandment that prohibits bearing false witness.

There is something else to consider.

The story of the rich man and Lazarus didn't originate with Jesus Christ. No, it originated with his Father. In other words: Christ was micro-managed.

John 3:34 . . He is sent by God. He speaks God's words

John 8:26 . . He that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of Him.

John 8:28 . . I do nothing on my own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught me.

John 12:49 . . I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John 14:24 . .The word which you hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent me.

So, by alleging that Luke 16:19-31 is fiction/fantasy, the parable theory slanders God by insinuating that He's a person of marginal integrity who can't be trusted to tell the truth about people, not even about His own friends, which is ridiculous seeing as how Titus 1:2 and Heb 6:18 testify that God cannot lie.

God's impeccable character is what makes that narrative all the more terrifying. Unless somebody can prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Christ's Father is a tale-spinner; I pretty much have to assume the narrative was drawn from real-life; and if not drawn from real life, then at least based upon real life.

In other words: there really is an afterlife place of conscious suffering where people endure unbearable anxiety worrying their loved ones are on a road to where they are and there is no way to warn them; which brings to mind the survivors of the Titanic watching their loved ones go to Davy Jones while utterly helpless to do anything about it.

People for whom I feel the most pity are parents that brought up their children in a religion whose pot at the end of the rainbow is filled with molten sulfur rather than gold. How do people bear up under something like that on their conscience?
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truthjourney

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Re: Experiencing Jehovah's Witnesses
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2018, 11:01:02 am »
.
MEDIATION FOR THE EARTHLY CLASS

1Tim 2:5 . . For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus.

On page 1129 of the Watchtower publication Aid To Bible Understanding a mediator is defined as one who interposes between two parties at variance to reconcile them: an intercessor.

Here's a question that someone wrote in to the "Questions From Readers" section of the April 01, 1976 issue of Watchtower magazine, asking:

Is Jesus the mediator only for anointed Christians? (a.k.a. the 144,000)

The answer given in the magazine is YES.

The magazine's answer is corroborated on page 1130 of Aid To Bible Understanding where it says that the 144,000 are the only ones who have the mediator; a.k.a. Jesus Christ. (1John 2:1)

Intercession for non anointed Witnesses is accomplished on the coattails of the 144,000; viz: Jesus Christ is an indirect, second party mediator for the rank and file via their affiliation with the Watchtower Society.

It's sort of like buying insurance from Allstate. The company doesn't sell direct; its business is conducted through brokers. In essence, that's what the Society presumes itself: Jesus Christ's mediation brokerage.

So then; when a Jehovah's Witness either defects or is dis-fellowshipped, it breaks the pipeline to the mediator that he enjoyed within the Society's fold; and he right quick loses all contact with God; and finds himself in grave danger of the calamities depicted in the book of Revelation.

Bottom line: According to Watchtower Society theology; it is impossible for non-anointed people to be on peaceful terms with God apart from affiliation with the Society's anointed class, a.k.a. the faithful and wise steward.

In other words: Christ's mediation as per 1Tim 2:5 is accomplished via a chain of communication that begins with Christ's association with the faithful and wise steward; and from thence to the rest of humanity. Removing the faithful and wise steward from the chain cuts humanity off from Christ; thus leaving them with no way to reconcile with God.
_


Plain and simple, Th Jehovah's Witness (Watchtower Ministries) are a CULT!

Blade

I'm sorry to say that I have to agree with that. But I have compassion for people who are trapped in cults. I would like to try to help them if I can which is the reason I have been making posts trying to inform JWs about the Watchtower's deception and lies. Unfortunately there are those who accuse me of attacking JWs and that is not what I'm doing.
Eph. 5:11 Take no part in the worthless deeds of evil and darkness; instead, expose and rebuke them.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

Bladerunner

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Re: Experiencing Jehovah's Witnesses
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2018, 04:37:25 pm »
.
MEDIATION FOR THE EARTHLY CLASS

1Tim 2:5 . . For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus.

On page 1129 of the Watchtower publication Aid To Bible Understanding a mediator is defined as one who interposes between two parties at variance to reconcile them: an intercessor.

Here's a question that someone wrote in to the "Questions From Readers" section of the April 01, 1976 issue of Watchtower magazine, asking:

Is Jesus the mediator only for anointed Christians? (a.k.a. the 144,000)

The answer given in the magazine is YES.

The magazine's answer is corroborated on page 1130 of Aid To Bible Understanding where it says that the 144,000 are the only ones who have the mediator; a.k.a. Jesus Christ. (1John 2:1)

Intercession for non anointed Witnesses is accomplished on the coattails of the 144,000; viz: Jesus Christ is an indirect, second party mediator for the rank and file via their affiliation with the Watchtower Society.

It's sort of like buying insurance from Allstate. The company doesn't sell direct; its business is conducted through brokers. In essence, that's what the Society presumes itself: Jesus Christ's mediation brokerage.

So then; when a Jehovah's Witness either defects or is dis-fellowshipped, it breaks the pipeline to the mediator that he enjoyed within the Society's fold; and he right quick loses all contact with God; and finds himself in grave danger of the calamities depicted in the book of Revelation.

Bottom line: According to Watchtower Society theology; it is impossible for non-anointed people to be on peaceful terms with God apart from affiliation with the Society's anointed class, a.k.a. the faithful and wise steward.

In other words: Christ's mediation as per 1Tim 2:5 is accomplished via a chain of communication that begins with Christ's association with the faithful and wise steward; and from thence to the rest of humanity. Removing the faithful and wise steward from the chain cuts humanity off from Christ; thus leaving them with no way to reconcile with God.
_


Plain and simple, Th Jehovah's Witness (Watchtower Ministries) are a CULT!

Blade

I'm sorry to say that I have to agree with that. But I have compassion for people who are trapped in cults. I would like to try to help them if I can which is the reason I have been making posts trying to inform JWs about the Watchtower's deception and lies. Unfortunately there are those who accuse me of attacking JWs and that is not what I'm doing.

I understand. Have some neighbors (good friends actually) that are/were and were not? (cannot tell which way they are now)J-Who's.

I ask them about the 144,000 and the fact that the other 250,000 J-Who's would not get to go to heaven. Their reply was the others were supposed to have Heaven on Earth instead. They only believe in Jehovah and not in Jesus Christ as His SON. And like many in a cult or Not and still believe in its doctrine, you cannot change their minds. I think they do something to them, like turning off a light switch vs pulling the power altogether. They simply will not change.

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

Olde Tymer

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Re: Experiencing Jehovah's Witnesses
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2018, 09:38:14 am »
.
CONNECTING WITH GOD VIA HIGH PRIEST

Ps 110:4 . . Jehovah has sworn (and he will feel no regret): You are a priest to time indefinite according to the manner of Melchizedek

Melchizedek's only personal appearance in the Bible occurs at Gen 14:18-20. The letter to Hebrews in the New Testament utilizes him as a "type" of Christ's celestial priesthood.

The author of the letter to Hebrews was reluctant to discuss Melchizedek's office, and how Christ's current high priest position relates to it, because the recipients of the letter were so spiritually immature, and so disinterested in Bible study, that he feared his comments would result in a ping. In other words: a discussion of Melchizedek and how he relates to Jesus Christ isn't everybody's cup of tea so I won't bother going into detail.

However; at least one of the salient features of Mel's priesthood should be readily obvious to everybody regardless of their spiritual acumen: Mel was a human being; just as all of God's high priests have always been human beings-- no exceptions. In point of fact, the letter to Hebrews clearly states that high priests are taken from among men (Heb 5:1). So that becomes the No.1 qualification for a Melchizedekian priest right out of the box and instantly disqualifies spirit beings.

Mel's jurisdiction was on the earth. But that was before Israel's covenanted law established Aaron's priesthood. So when that happened; Mel's post was temporarily suspended; and in point of fact, if Christ were on earth, he would not be an active priest because this is Aaron's district.

However, though Mel's post was moved to heaven's temple, there were no changes made to the nature of the person who holds the office. In other words; a priest according to the manner of Melchizedek is a human being no matter where he is. And since Ps 110:4 made Jesus Christ a priest to time indefinite, then he will remain a human being to time indefinite; and in order to be a human being, the Society says he has to have a human body because in their theology; human existence is entirely physical.

1Tim 2:5 . . For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus.

The Greek for both "men" and "man" in that verse is the same. It's derived from anthropos (anth'-ro-pos) --a common word for human beings in the New Testament; which is why that passage doesn't say there is one mediator between God and men, an angel, Christ Michael. No it doesn't say an angel, Christ Michael; no, it says a man, Christ Jesus; who everyone knows to be a human being rather than an angel by the same name.

A search of the entire New Testament for the angel Michael turns up but two references: Jude 1:9 and Rev 12:7. That angel is nowhere in the gospels, nowhere in Acts, and nowhere in the epistles other than Jude. If that angel is so all-fired important; then why is it so marginalized? Even the Society itself is a bit perplexed as to why the name of an angel so highly revered in their theology is nigh unto absent in the New Testament.

The Society claims that the names Jesus and Michael are interchangeable; but that's the most ridiculous case of apples and oranges on record; not to mention a very serious case of identity fraud. Even if an angel had once existed as a human being named Jesus; it no longer does. Now it exists as an angel being named Michael. The two names aren't interchangeable because the one name denotes a human being and the other name denotes a spirit being. Go ahead; search the New Testament and see how much luck you have finding somebody's name hyphenated like this: Jesus-Michael Christ. You won't because the Society's theology is an utter fantasy.

Oh what a wicked web we weave,
When first we practice to deceive.

-- Sir Walter Scott --

That poem rings so true. Once Charles T. Russell and/or Joseph F. Rutherford declared that Michael the angel, and Jesus Christ the human, are the same person; they were faced with the Herculean task of forcing the Bible to agree; and that was quite a challenge; which was accomplished by means of clever amalgams of fiction, sophistry, half-truths, semantic double speak, and humanistic reasoning.
_

truthjourney

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Re: Experiencing Jehovah's Witnesses
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2018, 06:18:01 pm »
.
MEDIATION FOR THE EARTHLY CLASS

1Tim 2:5 . . For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus.

On page 1129 of the Watchtower publication Aid To Bible Understanding a mediator is defined as one who interposes between two parties at variance to reconcile them: an intercessor.

Here's a question that someone wrote in to the "Questions From Readers" section of the April 01, 1976 issue of Watchtower magazine, asking:

Is Jesus the mediator only for anointed Christians? (a.k.a. the 144,000)

The answer given in the magazine is YES.

The magazine's answer is corroborated on page 1130 of Aid To Bible Understanding where it says that the 144,000 are the only ones who have the mediator; a.k.a. Jesus Christ. (1John 2:1)

Intercession for non anointed Witnesses is accomplished on the coattails of the 144,000; viz: Jesus Christ is an indirect, second party mediator for the rank and file via their affiliation with the Watchtower Society.

It's sort of like buying insurance from Allstate. The company doesn't sell direct; its business is conducted through brokers. In essence, that's what the Society presumes itself: Jesus Christ's mediation brokerage.

So then; when a Jehovah's Witness either defects or is dis-fellowshipped, it breaks the pipeline to the mediator that he enjoyed within the Society's fold; and he right quick loses all contact with God; and finds himself in grave danger of the calamities depicted in the book of Revelation.

Bottom line: According to Watchtower Society theology; it is impossible for non-anointed people to be on peaceful terms with God apart from affiliation with the Society's anointed class, a.k.a. the faithful and wise steward.

In other words: Christ's mediation as per 1Tim 2:5 is accomplished via a chain of communication that begins with Christ's association with the faithful and wise steward; and from thence to the rest of humanity. Removing the faithful and wise steward from the chain cuts humanity off from Christ; thus leaving them with no way to reconcile with God.
_


Plain and simple, Th Jehovah's Witness (Watchtower Ministries) are a CULT!

Blade

I'm sorry to say that I have to agree with that. But I have compassion for people who are trapped in cults. I would like to try to help them if I can which is the reason I have been making posts trying to inform JWs about the Watchtower's deception and lies. Unfortunately there are those who accuse me of attacking JWs and that is not what I'm doing.

I understand. Have some neighbors (good friends actually) that are/were and were not? (cannot tell which way they are now)J-Who's.

I ask them about the 144,000 and the fact that the other 250,000 J-Who's would not get to go to heaven. Their reply was the others were supposed to have Heaven on Earth instead. They only believe in Jehovah and not in Jesus Christ as His SON. And like many in a cult or Not and still believe in its doctrine, you cannot change their minds. I think they do something to them, like turning off a light switch vs pulling the power altogether. They simply will not change.

Blade

I also have good friends who are JWs. But I have found that before I can talk to them about scriptures that I have to help them to understand how they have been deceived by the Watchtower Society and of course they always defend the Governing Body no matter what they say or do or how many JWs lives have been destroyed by the doctrines, rules and regulations that come from the Governing Body.

That barrier has to be broken down before they will listen to any scriptures that I want to share with them. That has been the hardest thing to overcome to get them to listen. Because to them, the Governing Body is "the voice of God" and they have been so brainwashed to believe that to go against the Governing Body is going against God himself. They are thoroughly convinced of that and they don't think that the Governing Body can do any wrong or make mistakes. They view them as highly anointed.

And I am being misunderstood right now, not on this forum, but by people saying that I am attacking JWs just because I'm calling out the Governing Body's church abuse and the twisting and distorting of scripture and placing themselves up so high that in JWs view they are equal to God. And that is no exaggeration. They won't admit that and they will get upset if its even said to them but its true. And when a JW leaves that organization they are told that they are leaving God. They equate themselves with God. That's why they tell JWs that they're leaving God. JWs aren't leaving God. They're leaving a corrupt and abusive religion. And the ones who have dared to go onto the internet and research the history and even present doctrines and rules have come to realize the truth. But of course those JWs who do that are called before a judicial committee and are disfellowshipped for apostasy just for questioning and disagreeing with the Governing Body. That is not allowed. Free thinking and critical thinking is not allowed either.

I know that there are other religions that operate the same way as The Watchtower does. The same kind of church abuse. The same method of twisting and distorting of scripture. The same kind of secrecy and cover up. And I have compassion for people in those religions. Jesus had compassion for people and he knew exactly how to speak to them with authority that made them listen. And he called out some of the religious leaders who were hurting people.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2018, 06:19:51 pm by truthjourney »
Eph. 5:11 Take no part in the worthless deeds of evil and darkness; instead, expose and rebuke them.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

Olde Tymer

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Re: Experiencing Jehovah's Witnesses
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2018, 12:28:06 pm »
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THE FAITHFUL AND WISE STEWARD

Matt 24:45-47 . .Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. Truly I say to YOU, He will appoint him over all his belongings.

The core of the Watchtower Society-- the Governing Body --sincerely believes itself the faithful and discreet slave spoken of in that passage, i.e. believes that God chose the leaders of the Watchtower Society as His sole distributor of truth to mankind; thus explaining why John Q and Jane Doe Jehovah's Witnesses are taught that they need to submit unquestioningly to the Governing Body in order to associate with God, and for protection from doomsday, viz: the calamities depicted in the book of Revelation.

"The faithful and discreet slave” was appointed over Jesus’ domestics in 1919. That slave is the small, composite group of anointed brothers serving at world headquarters during Christ’s presence who are directly involved in preparing and dispensing spiritual food. When this group work together as the Governing Body, they act as the faithful and discreet slave." (jw.org, 10th Nov 2012)

"That faithful slave is the channel through which Jesus is feeding his true followers in this time of the end. It is vital that we recognize the faithful slave. Our spiritual health and our relationship with God depend on this channel." (Watchtower, 2013 Jul 15, p.20)

"We need to obey the faithful and discreet slave to have Jehovah’s approval." (Watchtower, 2011 Jul 15, p.24, Simplified English Edition)

"[A mature christian] does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding. Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and "the faithful and discreet slave." (Watchtower, 2001 Aug 01, p.14)

However: paragraph 12, under the heading; "Who is leading God's People today?" of the Feb 2017 Watchtower--Study Edition, says:

"The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible. Therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction. In fact, the Watch Tower Publications Index includes the heading “Beliefs Clarified,” which lists adjustments in our Scriptural understanding since 1870. Of course, Jesus did not tell us that his faithful slave would produce perfect spiritual food."

Just imagine the degree of confusion and insecurity that would pervade the minds of regular Christians had the authors of the New Testament scriptures attached a caveat to their writings similar to the above.


NOTE: I've had JW missionaries tell me that The Watchtower magazine isn't an authority in matters of faith and practice. But the Jan 1, 1942 issue of the magazine, on page 5, speaks for itself as a trustworthy source of Watchtower Society theology by saying:

"Those who are convinced that The Watchtower is publishing the opinion or expression of a man should not waste time in looking at it at all. Those who believe that God uses he Watchtower as a means of communicating to his people, or of calling attention to his prophecies, should study The Watchtower."

In other words: the haulers of water and the hewers of wood-- viz: the rank and file --are not only expected to know what's in the Watchtower magazine, but they're also required to accept it as the God's truth.
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Olde Tymer

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Re: Experiencing Jehovah's Witnesses
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2018, 01:35:54 pm »
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MIGHTY ONES

The Watchtower Society's theology is a based on a version called monolatrism, which basically alleges that all gods are actual deities; though not all deities are deemed worthy of worship. This is not quite the same as polytheism where numerous gods are all considered worthy of worship.

Monolatrism is distinguished from monotheism (asserts the existence of only one god) and distinguished from henotheism (a religious system in which the believer worships one god alone without denying that others may worship different gods of equal value)

While classical Christianity recognizes but two categories of gods: the true and the false, viz: the authentic and the imitation, the intrinsic and the artificial. The Watchtower Society's theologians took the liberty to create a third sandwiched between the true and the false called "mighty ones". The mighty-one category is a sort of neutral zone where qualifying personages exist as bona fide deities without violating the very first of the Ten Commandments. For example:

"I myself have said: You are gods" (Ps 82:6)

The gods referred to in that passage are humans; which everybody should know are only imitation deities rather than the genuine article; so in order to avoid stigmatizing humans as fake gods, the Society classifies them as mighty ones.

This gets kind of humorous when we plug "mighty one" into various locations. For example:

"In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a mighty one." (John 1:1)

And another:

"No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten mighty one who is in the bosom position with the Father is the one that has explained him." (John 1:18)

The "mighty one" category was an invention of necessity. In other words: without it, the Society would be forced to classify the only-begotten (John 1:18) and the Word (John 1:1) as a false god seeing as how Deut 6:4, John 17:3, and 1Cor 8:4-6 testify that there is only one true god.


OBJECTION: Jesus verified the authenticity of Ps 82:6 in a discussion recorded at John 10:34-36. If the word of God cannot be nullified, then those gods have to be real gods.

RESPONSE: Oh; they're real alright: real imitations. According to Deut 6:4, John 17:3, and 1Cor 8:4-6 there is only one true god. Therefore the gods in Ps 82 are artificial gods. True gods don't die; viz: they're immortal, impervious to death. The gods in Psalm 82 are not immortal.

So then, what does all this say about God's son? Well; if God's son is only a mighty one, as the Watchtower Society alleges; then he's an artificial god and his divinity is no more divine in reality than a totem pole or a statue of Shiva.
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« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 10:07:24 am by Olde Tymer »
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Olde Tymer

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Re: Experiencing Jehovah's Witnesses
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2018, 10:14:20 am »
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THE LIVING GOD(S)

Jer 10:10 . . Jehovah is in truth God. He is the living god.

The Hebrew word for "living" in that passage is chay (khah'-ee) which first appears in the Bible at Gen 1:20 where it speaks of aqua life and winged life. Then it appears at Gen 1:24 where it speaks of life on land. It appears again at Gen 2:7 where it speaks of human life.

Vegetation is never spoken of as chay. So I think we can limit the kind of life spoken of by chay as conscious life; viz: sentient existence.

Jehovah is called the living god something like fifteen times in the Old Testament, and fifteen more times in the New.

I'm unaware of any other gods in the whole Bible identified as living gods; not even the gods of Psalm 82 to whom God said "You are gods".

Because of that; I think it safe to conclude that no other god is a living god. In other words: labeling Jehovah as the living god is a way of saying He is the only god that's actually eternal, i.e. always was, always is, and always shall be. This has some serious ramifications.

Speaking of Christ:

Col 2:9 . . It is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily.

The Greek word for "divine quality" is theotes (theh-ot'-ace) which means: divinity

Seeing as how theotes is modified by the Greek definite article "ho" then what we're looking at here in Col 2:9 isn't nondescript divinity, but rather the divinity. In other words: we're looking at the fullness of the divinity of the living god.

Just about everybody on both sides of the aisle agrees that the Word spoken of at John 1:1 is a god. However: the Word isn't just any god; no, the fullness of the divinity of the living god dwells in the Word; viz: the Word is a living god, i.e. the life that's in the Word always was, always is, and always shall be.

John 5:26 . . For just as the Father has life in himself, so He has granted also to the Son to have life in himself.

When the Father granted the Son to have life in himself just as the Father has life in Himself, things got a bit complicated because unless Jehovah and the Word are different names for the same personage; there is now one too many living gods out there.
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Re: Experiencing Jehovah's Witnesses
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2018, 02:49:29 pm »
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THE FIRSTBORN

Col 1:15 . . He is the firstborn of all creation

The Watchtower Society has appropriated that verse as evidence that God's son was the first thing created before everything else in the cosmos.

However, the New Testament Greek word for "firstborn" in that verse is prototokos, which never means created first; no, it always means born first. The correct Greek word for created first is protoktistos.

The average Watchtower Society missionary doesn't know the difference between prototokos and protoktistos; and no doubt would care little about it anyway. To some of them; born first and created first are essentially one and the same.

But are they the same? No. Birthing requires a parent while creating requires a craftsman. Birthing produces progeny while crafting produces projects. God's son wasn't a project; no, he's God's progeny.

However; firstborn doesn't always refer to birth order. The term also refers to pay grade, so to speak, and as such is transferrable from an elder to a younger, e.g. Jacob and Esau (Gen 25:23) Manasseh and Ephraim (Gen 48:13-14) and Reuben and Joseph (Gen 49:3-4, 1Chr 5:1).

There was a time when David was God's firstborn (Ps 89:20-27). The position was later transferred to one of David's sons (Dan 7:13-14, Ps 110:1, Matt 22:42-45, Phil 2:9-11). So for now and forever; neither anything nor anybody is higher up on creation's chain of command than Christ.

You'd think that the Jews' religious experts of Jesus' day would have known about this.

Matt 22:41-46 . . Now while the Pharisees were gathered together Jesus asked them: “What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?” They said to him: “David’s" He said to them: “How, then, is it that David by inspiration calls him ‘Lord,’ saying, ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies beneath your feet” ’? If, therefore, David calls him ‘Lord,’ how is he his son?”

Jesus referred to Psalm 110:1, which reads like this in the NWT.

The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is: “Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”

The Hebrew word for "Lord" in that verse is 'adown (aw-done'); a very common title of respect for one's superiors in the Old Testament. Sarah revered her husband Abraham as 'adown (Gen 18:12) Rachel revered her dad Laban as 'adown (Gen 31:5) and Jacob revered his brother Esau as 'adown (Gen 33:8). So then; Psalm 110:1 can be translated like this:

The utterance of Jehovah to my superior: "Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet."

David is the paterfamilias of his own line of royalty, making him superior to all of his male progeny; none of them outrank him, all are his subordinates. But Ps 110:1 speaks of one of David's male progeny who somehow breaks the rules; and the Jews' religious experts were utterly baffled by it.

Matt 22:46 . . And no one was able to answer him a word

The Jews' religious experts were no doubt aware, by means of their Old Testament studies, that the rank of firstborn can be moved around among siblings, but nobody even dreamed it could be taken away from one's self and given to one's offspring. This was something strange to their Jewish way of thinking; yet there it is in black and white in their own scriptures. They had somehow failed to catch the significance of Ps 110:1 until Jesus drew their attention to it.

Eph 1:20-21 . .It is according to the operation of the mightiness of his strength, with which he has operated in the case of the Christ when he raised him up from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above every government and authority and power and lordship and every name named, not only in this system of things, but also in that to come.

Phil 2:8-11 . . God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

Q: What is the name that is above every other name?

A: Jehovah

Q: Is that another reason why Jesus is superior to David?

A: Yes. Jesus has the God-given right to use Jehovah's name as his own name; which allows him all the respect and reverence that the name deserves; viz: failure to revere Jesus as Jehovah dishonors the name of God the Father.
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