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Author Topic: Christ's Ways  (Read 6845 times)

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Bladerunner

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Re: Christ's Ways
« Reply #377 on: January 28, 2020, 05:34:57 pm »
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Philemon 1:1-25

In the little communiqué to his friend Philemon, Paul went to bat for a runaway slave named Onesimus. By all rights, Philemon could legally, under Roman law, put Onesimus to death; but as Onesimus' fellow believer, and his sibling around the table in God's home, Philemon was bound by a higher sense of duty and association.

Onesimus ran away prior to his conversion to Christianity. Had he been a Christian, he would have been mindful of Eph 6:5-8, Col 3:22-25, 1Tim 6:1- 2, and Titus 2:9-10a and not run away.

Now that Onesimus was a fellow believer, Philemon was obligated to comply with Eph 6:9a, and Col 4:1.

You know, I keep using words like "obligated" but though that word is appropriate, it shouldn't have to be emphasized because Christianity is supposed to be a religion of devotion rather than obligation to duty.

"By love serve one another." (Gal 5:13)

Israel's covenanted law requires people to love others as themselves; but Jesus commands his followers to love their fellow believers with the same degree of love with which he himself loves them.

"My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.: (John 15:12)

That being the case, it must have been very easy for Philemon to let bygones be bygones and welcome Onesimus back into his home.

When Onesimus became Philemon's fellow believer, the nature of their association took on a whole other dimension; viz: every one of the commands that I've posted up till now, in regards to believers associating with one another, came into play at the moment of Onesimus' conversion.

He and Philemon would never again relate to one another the same as before Onesimus' conversion. Where once Onesimus and Philemon were merely fellow men; in Christ they became siblings, and both will one day sit side by side, shoulder to shoulder as equals around the table in God's home.

"For perhaps he therefore departed for a season, that thou shouldest receive him for ever; not now as a slave, but above a slave, a brother beloved, specially to me, but how much more unto thee, both in the flesh, and in The Lord?" (Philem 1:15-16)

 As a conscientious Christian, Onesimus no doubt became a real asset because it wouldn't be necessary for Philemon to ever again beat an honest day's work out of him.

"All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God's name and our teaching may not be slandered. Those who have believing masters are not to show less respect for them because they are brothers. Instead, they are to serve them even better, because those who benefit from their service are believers, and dear to them." (1Tim 6:1-2)
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Still going Ole TImer
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

Olde Tymer

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Re: Christ's Ways
« Reply #378 on: January 29, 2020, 07:58:09 am »
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Heb 2:1-4 . .We must pay more careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away. For if the message spoken by angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, how shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by The Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to His will.


NOTE: The pronoun "we" probably refers specifically to Jews because, in essence, that's to whom and for whom the letter was penned. (Heb 1:1-2)

I don't think the words "drift away" imply apostasy; not in this case anyway. No; it's more like a curious crowd that gathers around a soap box speaker, and little by little, man by man, boredom sets in-- the audience begins dispersing and people move on to find something else to do. That would be akin to attending a Billy Graham crusade for its entertainment, and a month later totally forgetting everything he talked about.


BTW: The passage above mentions angels. Stephen verified that Moses received the Law at the hands of angels (Acts 7:53) but if you go back and read that story, you won't find any celestial beings in the picture other than Jehovah and that's because the Hebrew word for angels doesn't always speak of personages. Sometimes it speaks of apparitions; for example: voices, smoke, fire, earthquakes, thundering, and loud horns. (Ex 19:10-20, Ex 20:18, Heb 12:18-21)
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« Last Edit: January 29, 2020, 07:07:30 pm by Olde Tymer »

Bladerunner

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Re: Christ's Ways
« Reply #379 on: January 29, 2020, 06:33:35 pm »
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Heb 2:1-4 . .We must pay more careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away. For if the message spoken by angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, how shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by The Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to His will.


NOTE: The pronoun "we" probably refers specifically to Jews because, in essence, that's to whom and for whom the letter was penned. (Heb 1:1-2)

I don't think the words "drift away" imply apostasy; not in this case anyway. No; it's more like a curious crowd that gathers around a soap box speaker, and little by little, man by man, boredom sets in-- the audience begins dispersing and people move on to find something else to do. That would be akin to attending a Billy Graham crusade for its entertainment, and a month later totally forgetting everything he talked about.


BTW: The passage above mentions angels. Stephen verified that Moses received the Law at the hands of angels (Acts 7:53) but if you go back and read that story, you won't find any celestial beings in the picture other than Jehovah and that's because the Hebrew word for angels doesn't always speak of personages. Sometimes it speaks of apparitions; for example: smoke, fire, earthquakes, thundering, and loud horns. (Ex 7:30, Ex 19:16-18)
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Ooops...the book of Exodus chapter 7 only has 25 verses not 30

In Exo 19:16-18...Where is the apparation....IS it GOD...otherwise I do not see anything you are talking about.

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

Olde Tymer

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Re: Christ's Ways
« Reply #380 on: January 30, 2020, 07:18:26 am »
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Heb 3:1 . .Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the apostle and High Priest whom we acknowledge: Christ Jesus

The "holy brethren" are Moses' people as per Deut 14:2 and Ps 135:4; and the "heavenly calling" very likely refers to the nation that God promised to make of Abraham as per Gen 12:1-2, Gen 13:14-16, and Gen 22:16-18.

The Greek word for "consider" is katanoeo (kat-an-o-eh'-o) which means: to observe fully; viz: to study; to examine.

You know, giving Christ a cursory glance as if he were a curiosity or a brief distraction leads nowhere. His purpose and his mission are just too extensive for that sort of once-over approach.
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Olde Tymer

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Re: Christ's Ways
« Reply #381 on: January 31, 2020, 07:17:36 am »
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Heb 3:7-11 . . So, as the Holy Spirit says: Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the desert, where your fathers tested and tried Me and for forty years saw what I did. That is why I was angry with that generation, and I said: Their hearts are always going astray, and they have not known My ways. So I declared on oath in My anger; they shall never enter My rest.

That's a quote from Psalm 95; which pertains to Moses' people whom The Lord rescued from Egyptian slavery. No doubt there are lots of modern Jews who would say: Had I been out there with Moses in the desert, I would have obeyed God and entered the promised land when The Lord said to the first time. Sure, sure, it's easy to be obedient in hindsight sans the added handicap of peer pressure. But where's the average Jew today? The majority are hiloni (secular). And if you were to take a poll of the more than twelve million Jews resident on today's Earth, how many would you find who have ever even one time read Psalm 95?

In point of fact, the generation that followed Joshua into Canaan didn't get rest; no, they got warfare; years of it. And instead of obtaining a permanent state of peace and prosperity, they wound up getting oppression, slavery, poverty, environmental disasters, plagues, defeat, and dispersal.

"For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that. There remains therefore a rest to the people of God." (Heb 4:8-9)

I'm going to deliberately misquote that last sentence like this:

"There is another rest for the people of God."

No, it doesn't say "another" rest; it's actually the same rest; the one they failed to obtain back in the day; viz: it's been on hold all these many long years; and observers only need look at the state of that country today to easily perceive that Moses' people have yet to obtain rest of any kind: either politically, environmentally, or economically.
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Olde Tymer

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Re: Christ's Ways
« Reply #382 on: February 01, 2020, 07:11:23 am »
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Heb 3:12-13 . . Take heed, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. But implore one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness.

That's a call to theocratic unity; Jewish theocratic unity. But good luck getting the Jews to rally around The Lord. Oh well, the author was duty-bound to try; as all the prophets before him in the past were duty-bound to try; usually to no avail.

"Who were they who heard and rebelled? Was it not all those whom Moses led out of Egypt? And with whom was The Lord angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the desert? And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? So then, we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief." (Heb 3:16-19)

Belief is not only consent to a statement's truthfulness. No, Bible belief contains the element of trust; the absence of which led to the Jews' downfall in the Sinai. God told them to attack Palestine, but they didn't believe they were strong enough to do it. Well, that part was true; they weren't. However, The Lord promised to be on their side. That part was true too, and had they been as convinced of that second part as strongly as they were the first, they would have been okay.

But alas, they failed to rely upon The Lord as a man of His word; and subsequently, they missed out on their one and only opportunity to enter an era of peace, prosperity, and providence.
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Olde Tymer

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Re: Christ's Ways
« Reply #383 on: February 03, 2020, 07:32:26 am »
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Heb 4:1-2 . .Therefore, let us fear lest, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. For indeed we have had the gospel preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it wasn't mixed with faith in those who heard.

When reading the Bible; it's always important to pay strict attention to language, grammar, and syntax. In this passage we're looking at, the pronouns us, you, we, they, and those don't refer to Gentiles; no, not at all. They refer to the author's fellow Jewish countrymen. This is, after all, a letter to Hebrews, not to the world.

The "gospel" spoken of in this instance is a concise version of the message with which most Christians are familiar, and its focus was mainly upon the kingdom of God rather than the grace of God. (e.g. Matt 4:23, Mark 1:14-15). The Jews' homeland would've been the center of the kingdom of God back then just as it will be in the future. In other words: the kingdom of God has been offered to the Jews at least twice already-- once by Moses and once by Jesus --and will be offered to them yet a third time in the future. But I rather suspect that next time the Jews won't have a say in the matter.

Jews are now in an era sometimes called the church age; which is an open-season opportunity for them to at least enroll in the kingdom as its future citizens. (Col 1:13)

"It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in, because of their disobedience. Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later He spoke through David, as was said before: "Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts." (Heb 4:6-7)
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Olde Tymer

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Re: Christ's Ways
« Reply #384 on: February 04, 2020, 06:28:39 am »
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Heb 4:11 . . Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall through following the same example of disbelief.

The "fall" in that instance refers to the failure of Moses' people to enter the kingdom's land when they were given the opportunity; which was indeed a very brief open season.
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Olde Tymer

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Re: Christ's Ways
« Reply #385 on: February 05, 2020, 07:14:21 am »
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Heb 4:14 . . Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us cling to what we acknowledge

Prior to Christ, the closest proximity that Moses' people had to God was their Aaonic high priest. But even he was earth-bound and his own closest proximity to the actual person of God was the holy place in either the tabernacle or the Temple, whereas Jesus is up in Heaven seated on the throne of God practically rubbing shoulders with Him. (Acts 2:33, Eph 1:20, Heb 8:1, Rev 3:21)

Another advantage of Christ's priesthood is his immortality; in other words: Christ continues as a priest forever because he rose from the dead impervious to death. Aaron and his sons were not so lucky.

"Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him." (Rom 6:9)

"Also there were many priests, because they were prevented by death from continuing. But he, because he continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since he always lives to make intercession for them." (Heb 7:23-25)
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Olde Tymer

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Re: Christ's Ways
« Reply #386 on: February 06, 2020, 07:14:52 am »
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Heb 4:15-16

When I was a little boy, just about every night at bedtime I recited the classic "Lay Me Down To Sleep" children's prayer. In my opinion; a rote prayer like that one is okay for getting children started communicating with God.

Jesus' disciples were full-grown men physically. But they were just babies spiritually. A prayer like the "Our Father" is a good place for spiritually immature Christians like Jesus' disciples to begin, but it's not a good place for them to stay.

"When I was a child, I used to talk as a child, think as a child, reason as a child; when I became a man, I put aside childish things." (1Cor 13:11)

Now let's take Jesus for example. There is no record of him ever even once praying the "Our Father". In point of fact, when examining Jesus' prayers, it's readily apparent that he typically prayed in a conversational style instead of reciting rote. Two good examples of his style are located at Matt 11:25-26 and John 17:1-26. Jesus' style is the style that mature Christians are supposed to follow as their role model.

"We should grow in every way into him who is the head, Christ" (Eph 4:15)

"And he gave some as apostles, others as prophets, others as evangelists, others as pastors and teachers, to equip the holy ones for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of faith and knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the extent of the full stature of Christ" (Eph 4:11-13)

When people have been Christians for some time, and still reciting rote prayers, I'd have to say that their spiritual growth has been stunted, i.e. they're not developing properly because they haven't been getting adequate nourishment.

Christians who've attained "mature manhood" are supposed to pray in accord with the instructions given at Heb 4:15-16 which reads thus:

"For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and may find grace to help in time of need."

The Greek word for "confidence" is parrhesia (par-rhay-see'-ah) which means all out-spokenness, i.e. frankness, bluntness, and/or candor.

Reciting the scripted lines of prayers like "Lay Me Down To Sleep", the "Hail Mary", and/or the "Our Father" is not what I call forthright, nor blunt, nor out spoken, nor candid. It's actually not much different than one of those Hindu mystics chanting mantras, or a Jew stuffing pieces of paper in the stone chinks of the so-called Wailing Wall while rocking back and forth like a plastic bobble toy and reciting rote prayers from a siddur.

Does anyone speak to their friends, their associates, their spouse, their domestic partner, their significant other, their doctor, dentist, supermarket cashiers, or the cops with rote chanting? Of course not. They would write us off as one in desperate need of therapy if we did. Then why would anyone speak to God with rote chanting?

Don't you think He looks upon rote chanters as mental cases when they do that? Of course He does; who wouldn't? How would you like it if everybody spoke to you like that? Well, He doesn't like it either. God has a higher IQ than anybody you could possibly name and rote chanters are treating Him like a totem pole. The Bible's God is a king who deserves far more respect than a US President yet people are speaking to Him like a tape recorder rather than the ultimate Sovereign that He is.

Christianity's God is a sentient, sensible person; and we all need to show some respect for His intelligence.
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« Last Edit: February 06, 2020, 07:17:29 am by Olde Tymer »

Olde Tymer

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Re: Christ's Ways
« Reply #387 on: February 07, 2020, 08:12:48 am »
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Heb 6:1-3 . . Let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. And God permitting, we will do so.

At this point in the letter to Hebrews, the author talks to Jews about a high priest named Melchizedek who lived in Abraham's day. Mel is largely ignored on internet forums; which is really a shame because his priesthood, and its constituents, are above the Ten Commandments and thoroughly immune to prosecution for breaking them; which is just the ticket for Jews because they have no immunity from prosecution for even the tiniest infraction.

"Cursed is the man who does not uphold the words of this law by carrying them out." (Deut 27:26)

"Truly; until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the Law until all is accomplished." (Matt 5:18)

"Whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it." (Jas 2:10)
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Bladerunner

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Re: Christ's Ways
« Reply #388 on: February 07, 2020, 10:45:53 am »
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Heb 6:1-3 . . Let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. And God permitting, we will do so.

At this point in the letter to Hebrews, the author talks to Jews about a high priest named Melchizedek who lived in Abraham's day. Mel is largely ignored on internet forums; which is really a shame because his priesthood, and its constituents, are above the Ten Commandments and thoroughly immune to prosecution for breaking them; which is just the ticket for Jews because they have no immunity from prosecution for even the tiniest infraction.

"Cursed is the man who does not uphold the words of this law by carrying them out." (Deut 27:26)

"Truly; until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the Law until all is accomplished." (Matt 5:18)

"Whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it." (Jas 2:10)
_


You said:"Mel is largely ignored on internet forums; which is really a shame because his priesthood, and its constituents, are above the Ten Commandments and thoroughly immune to prosecution for breaking them; which is just the ticket for Jews because they have no immunity from prosecution for even the tiniest infraction."

This is pure speculation and has no basis for accuracy.

1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

Olde Tymer

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Re: Christ's Ways
« Reply #389 on: February 07, 2020, 07:08:30 pm »
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Heb 10:21-22 . . Since we have a high priest over the house of God, let us draw near to God with a sincere heart, in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience

The Greek word translated "guilty" is okay as far is it goes, but what it really means is "evil" which takes in a large variety of very bad things like calamitous, diseased, derelict, vicious, mischievous, and/or malicious.

The wickedness of one's conscience is technically different than the wickedness of one's conduct. This point is touched upon a bit in Romans 2:15 where it's said:

"Their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them"

That refers to the debating that goes on within one's mind; where human nature does it's level best to either fabricate an excuse for one's conduct, or else rationalizing it so as to moderate any and all guilt attached to it.

Sprinkling was a common ritual in the Old Testament-- sometimes with water, sometimes with oil, and sometimes with blood --for example: Ex 29:16, Ex 29:21, Lev 14:7, Lev 14 16, and Num 8:7, et al.

Sprinkling typically serves to de-contaminate someone or some thing in order to make it suitable for God's purposes. Old Testament sprinklings were good for only just the moment; requiring additional sprinklings from time to time; but the sprinkling spoken of in Heb 10:21-22 is a one-time sprinkling that never needs repeating.

"We have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; but he, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time onward until his enemies be made a footstool for His feet. For by one offering he has perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Heb 10:10-14)
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« Last Edit: February 07, 2020, 07:15:16 pm by Olde Tymer »

 

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