+- +-

+- User

Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
 
 
 
Forgot your password?

+-Stats ezBlock

Members
Total Members: 119
Latest: Bella_777
New This Month: 2
New This Week: 0
New Today: 0
Stats
Total Posts: 17192
Total Topics: 878
Most Online Today: 421
Most Online Ever: 771
(July 30, 2019, 01:13:39 am)
Users Online
Members: 1
Guests: 88
Total: 89

Author Topic: Cain According To James  (Read 1134 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Olde Tymer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1005
  • Karma: +1010/-0
  • Referrals: 0
Cain According To James
« on: December 07, 2019, 10:40:38 am »
.
1Pet 5:8-9 . . Be discreet, stay alert. Your adversary, the Devil, prowls about like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour; whom resist, steadfast in the faith.

"the faith" isn't only a collection of beliefs, but includes a collection of practices, since according to James; a person of faith without practices might as well have no faith at all.

Jas 2:17 . . Faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

The demon world believes in the existence of a supreme being (Jas 2:19) but the demon world lacks piety; i.e. they are not devout.

A devout Christian is someone who not only believes; but also behaves.

John 14:15 . . If you love me, you will comply with what I command.

John 14:21 . .Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me.

John 14:23-24 . . If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching . . He who does not love me will not obey my teaching.

John 15:14 . .You are my friends if you do what I command you.

Now, assuming for the moment that Cain's offering was correct; then why didn't God accept it? Well; before God snubbed Cain's offering, He first snubbed Cain.

Gen 4:4-5 . .The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor.

The reason given for Cain's rejection is an elephant in the middle of the room that quite a few Bible students seem content to ignore.

Gen 4:7 . . If you do what is right, will you not be accepted?

Cain believed in the existence of a supreme being; that much is pretty obvious. But Cain's piety was flawed, i.e. his personal conduct didn't meet God's standards of behavior, viz: Cain wasn't devout.


FAQ: How could Cain possibly know God's standards of behavior without a written code to inform him?

A: Luke 11:49-51 says that Cain's kid brother Abel was a prophet.

FAQ: What does Cain's rejection have to do with me? I'm a Christian.

A: Cain's association with God was thwarted by his conduct. That principle is a universal axiom; it governs everybody: Christians included; they are not exempt. When Christians do what's right, they get along with God just fine; but when they don't do what's right, they get the cold shoulder just the same as if they were a demon.

1John 1:5-6 . .This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
_
« Last Edit: December 09, 2019, 10:56:12 am by Olde Tymer »

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter

Like Like x 1 View List

Olde Tymer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1005
  • Karma: +1010/-0
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Cain According To James
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2019, 10:12:14 am »
.
Heb 11:4 . . By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cain did.

I'm going to edit the wording of that just a bit to bring out an important point.

"By faith Abel offered God a sacrifice"

The missing word "better" is a modifier; which serves to show that both men's offerings were sacrifices; only the quality of Abel's sacrifice was superior to the quality of Cain's.

Sacrifices should never be assumed always lethal and/or bloody. Take for example:

Rom 12:1 . . I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices

Heb 13:15-17 . .Through Him then, let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that give thanks to His name. And do not neglect doing good and sharing; for with such sacrifices God is pleased.

Heb 11:4 also testifies that Abel's offerings were gifts. The very same Greek word is used at Matt 2:11 to categorize the treasures that the wise men left with baby Jesus.

Their gifts were not sin offerings; they were tributes: defined by Webster's as (1) something given or contributed voluntarily as due or deserved especially a gift or service showing respect, gratitude, or affection and (2) something (such as material evidence or a formal attestation) that indicates the worth, virtue, or effectiveness of the one in question

In other words "gifts" are acts of worship; which is the primary reason why Jehovah's Witnesses don't celebrate birthdays.


NOTE: It's commonly assumed that Abel's sacrifice was slain; but there isn't enough evidence to support it. Noah's sacrifices were obviously slain because they're listed as incinerated on an altar (Gen 8:20). But Abel's sacrifice is not said to end up the same way.

The Hebrew word for both men's offerings in Gen 4:4-5 is minchah (min-khaw') which means to apportion, i.e. bestow; a donation; euphemistically, tribute; specifically a sacrificial offering (usually bloodless and voluntary).

When disinformation is repeated often, spread widely, and lent proper respect; it sometimes becomes axiomatic in people's thinking. Caveat Lector.

It ain't what you know that gets you into trouble.
It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.

(Mark Twain)
_
« Last Edit: December 10, 2019, 07:56:16 pm by Olde Tymer »
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Bladerunner

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1940
  • Karma: +1010/-0
  • My Friend
  • Location: Tennessee, USA
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Cain According To James
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2019, 01:17:35 pm »
.
Heb 11:4 . . By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cain did.

I'm going to edit the wording of that just a bit to bring out an important point.

"By faith Abel offered God a sacrifice"

The missing word "better" is a modifier; which serves to show that both men's offerings were sacrifices; only the quality of Abel's sacrifice was superior to the quality of Cain's.

Sacrifices should never be assumed always lethal and/or bloody. Take for example:

Rom 12:1 . . I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices

Heb 13:15-17 . .Through Him then, let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that give thanks to His name. And do not neglect doing good and sharing; for with such sacrifices God is pleased.

Heb 11:4 also testifies that Abel's offerings were gifts. The very same Greek word is used at Matt 2:11 to categorize the treasures that the wise men left with baby Jesus.

Their gifts were not sin offerings; they were tributes: defined by Webster's as (1) something given or contributed voluntarily as due or deserved especially a gift or service showing respect, gratitude, or affection and (2) something (such as material evidence or a formal attestation) that indicates the worth, virtue, or effectiveness of the one in question

In other words "gifts" are acts of worship; which is the primary reason why Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate birthdays.
_


Is that how one makes scripture say something according to ones own interpretation(s).....You said:
"I'm going to edit the wording of that just a bit to bring out an important point.

"By faith Abel offered God a sacrifice"

The missing word "better" is a modifier; which serves to show that both men's offerings were sacrifices; only the quality of Abel's sacrifice was superior to the quality of Cain's. "


If you read it literally from the KJV st start with you get:

Hebrew 11:4..(KJV).By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

Almost what you said....NO....and you did not have to change a thing.

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

Olde Tymer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1005
  • Karma: +1010/-0
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Cain According To James
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2019, 07:27:42 pm »
.
I'm confident in my own mind that the Cain and Abel incident is unrelated to the plan of salvation as per Christ on the cross rather, it's a lesson about worship.

Take for example Isa 1:11-20. Moses' people were offering all the covenanted sacrifices, they were praying up a storm, and observing all the God-given feasts and holy days. He rejected all of it, even though He himself required it, because the people's personal conduct was unbecoming.

Prv 15:8 . .The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to Yhvh.

Perhaps the classic example is the one below.

Ps 51:16 . .You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings.

When David wrote that; he had only just committed the capital crimes of adultery and premeditated murder. There was just no way that God was going to accept his sacrifices and offerings on top of that; and David knew it too.

The principle shows up again in Jesus' teachings.

Matt 9:13 . . Go and learn what this means: I desire mercy and not sacrifice.

Some folk honestly believe that Christ's statement, taken from Hosea 6:6, practically repealed the entire God-given book of Leviticus. But that's not what either Hosea or Jesus were saying. They meant that God much prefers that people be civil to each other rather than religious to their fingertips.

In other words; an ungracious person's lack of things like sympathy, patience, tolerance, lenience, helpfulness, pity, and common courtesy causes God to reject their worship just as thoroughly and bluntly as He rejected Cain's.

The principle didn't go away. It's still the Lord's way of doing business with people; including Christians.

1John 1:5-7 . . God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: but if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another.

It's likely a foregone conclusion that God is deeply insulted when people whose conduct is unbecoming all during the week come to church on Sunday actually thinking He's glad to see them show up for some quality time together.
_
« Last Edit: December 10, 2019, 08:44:57 am by Olde Tymer »

Bladerunner

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1940
  • Karma: +1010/-0
  • My Friend
  • Location: Tennessee, USA
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Cain According To James
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2019, 07:20:58 pm »
.
I'm confident in my own mind that the Cain and Abel incident is unrelated to the plan of salvation as per Christ on the cross rather, it's a lesson about worship, i.e. church attendance.

Take for example Isa 1:11-20. Moses' people were offering all the covenanted sacrifices, they were praying up a storm, and observing all the God-given feasts and holy days. He rejected all of it, even though He himself required it, because the people's personal conduct was unbecoming.

Prv 15:8 . .The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to Yhvh.

Perhaps the classic example is the one below.

Ps 51:16 . .You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings.

When David wrote that; he had only just committed the capital crimes of adultery and premeditated murder. There was just no way that God was going to accept his sacrifices and offerings on top of that; and David knew it too.

The principle shows up again in Jesus' teachings.

Matt 9:13 . . Go and learn what this means: I desire mercy and not sacrifice.

Some folk honestly believe that Christ's statement, taken from Hosea 6:6, practically repealed the entire God-given book of Leviticus. But that's not what either Hosea or Jesus were saying. They meant that God much prefers that people be civil to each other rather than religious to their fingertips.

In other words; an ungracious person's lack of things like sympathy, patience, tolerance, lenience, helpfulness, pity, and common courtesy causes God to reject their worship just as thoroughly and bluntly as He rejected Cain's.

The principle didn't go away. It's still the Lord's way of doing business with people; including Christians.

1John 1:5-7 . . God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: but if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another.

It's likely a foregone conclusion that God is deeply insulted when people whose conduct is unbecoming all during the week come to church on Sunday actually thinking He's glad to see them show up for some quality time together.
_


If we are speaking of the offering of Cain and Abel, it was the disobedience of Cain's offering...It also shows us that they had been told what was the proper process for a  sacrifice which Cain did not follow...

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

Olde Tymer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1005
  • Karma: +1010/-0
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Cain According To James
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2019, 03:19:44 pm »
.
Gen 4:7 . . If you do what is right, will you not be accepted?


FAQ: What do you suppose Cain would've had to do right in order for him to be accepted?

A: Judging from Gen 4:8 and 1John 3:14-15, Cain would've, at the very least, had to stop hating his kid brother.

Matt 5:22-24 . . I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says "You fool" shall be liable to the hell of fire.

. . . So if you are offering your gift at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you; leave your gift there before the altar and go-- first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.


NOTE: Dysfunctional families really ought to stay home on Sundays and watch football or mow the lawn instead of coming to church till they resolve their differences and can all put on an honest happy face when they're together in public.

FAQ: Don't all families squabble to some degree?

A: We're not talking about squabbles; we're talking about hate; and not just any hate, rather, a hatred that's gone beyond anger and congealed into a lingering malice that's intense enough to want someone dead. (cf. Gen 37:4-20)
_
« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 10:45:50 am by Olde Tymer »

Bladerunner

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1940
  • Karma: +1010/-0
  • My Friend
  • Location: Tennessee, USA
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Cain According To James
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2019, 06:41:26 pm »
.
Gen 4:7 . . If you do what is right, will you not be accepted?


FAQ: What do you suppose Cain would've had to do right in order for him to be accepted?

A: Judging from Gen 4:8 and 1John 3:14-15, and Cain would've, at the very least, had to stop hating his kid brother.

Matt 5:22-24 . . I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says "You fool" shall be liable to the hell of fire.

. . . So if you are offering your gift at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you; leave your gift there before the altar and go-- first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.


NOTE: Dysfunctional families really ought to stay home on Sundays and watch football or mow the lawn instead of coming to church till they resolve their differences and can all put on an honest happy face when they're together in public.
_


YOUR NOTE:   It is not that easy....for family squabbles to become non-existant.

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

Olde Tymer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1005
  • Karma: +1010/-0
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Cain According To James
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2019, 10:54:43 am »
.
Jude 11 . . Woe to them. They have taken the way of Cain.

Cain's way began with Gen 4:16, which says:

"Cain went out from The Lord's presence"

Apparently Cain's departure was permanent because he's never again shown in contact with God for the remainder of the Bible. In other words; Cain's rapport with God ended abruptly that very day and was never restored.

During an evening service in church many years ago, the minister asked everyone to stand and promise God that they would make an effort to avoid sin. Well, my sister and I made the promise but my brother did not. When we got home I asked my brother why he didn't make the promise. He replied: "There's some things I want to do."

God had put that very same choice on the table for Cain to think about when He said:

"If you do what is right, will you not be accepted?" (Gen 4:7)

Well; neither my brother nor Cain were interested in doing what's right; they had other ideas.

The "woe" in Jude 11 isn't just an expression of sympathy; no, it's a reality. Here's the wording of it from Gen 4:7

"If you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it."

Well; piety and self control were not Cain's highest priorities. He was determined to do as he pleased; viz; Cain stepped out on the road to depravity; and my brother did too.

Jude 3-4 warns that Christianity is infected with a number of people on Cain's path-- some are pastors, priests, and ministers, some are officers on church boards, some are deacons, some are elders, some are even Sunday school and catechism teachers; so be careful out there.


NOTE: People like Cain, and Jacob's uncle Laban, are curiosities. Neither man was an atheist, and both were privileged by personal encounters with the one true God; yet the encounters failed to motivate either to change his ways.
_

Bladerunner

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1940
  • Karma: +1010/-0
  • My Friend
  • Location: Tennessee, USA
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Cain According To James
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2019, 05:40:13 pm »
.
Jude 11 . . Woe to them. They have taken the way of Cain.

Cain's way began with Gen 4:16, which says:

"Cain went out from The Lord's presence"

Apparently Cain's departure was permanent because he's never again shown in contact with God for the remainder of the Bible. In other words; Cain's rapport with God ended abruptly that very day and was never restored.

During an evening service in church many years ago, the minister asked everyone to stand and promise God that they would make an effort to avoid sin. Well, my sister and I made the promise but my brother did not. When we got home I asked my brother why he didn't make the promise. He replied: "There's some things I want to do."

God had put that very same choice on the table for Cain to think about when He said:

"If you do what is right, will you not be accepted?" (Gen 4:7)

Well; neither my brother nor Cain were interested in doing what's right; they had other ideas.

The "woe" in Jude 11 isn't just an expression of sympathy; no, it's a reality. Here's the wording of it from Gen 4:7

"If you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it."

Well; piety and self control were not Cain's highest priorities. He was determined to do as he pleased; viz; Cain stepped out on the road to depravity; and my brother did too.

Jude 3-4 warns that Christianity is infected with a number of people on Cain's path-- some are pastors, priests, and ministers, some are officers on church boards, some are deacons, some are elders, some are even Sunday school and catechism teachers; so be careful out there.


NOTE: People like Cain, and Jacob's uncle Laban, are curiosities. Neither man was an atheist, and both were privileged by personal encounters with the one true God; yet the encounters failed to motivate either to change his ways.
_


You are placing your own theology into this ...Cain yes was never mentioned again in the BIBLE>...That does not mean He was on the wrong side of GOD....In fact, I will not be surprised that Cain will probably be in Heaven....You see all His Children, all of their names have "EL" (GOD) in them.....Why would Cain do that if he and GOD were at odds.

Blade


1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
Like Like x 1 View List

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
19 Replies
5311 Views
Last post May 28, 2020, 11:57:16 am
by Bladerunner
2 Replies
1139 Views
Last post October 21, 2019, 07:54:25 am
by Lori Bolinger
9 Replies
2655 Views
Last post August 22, 2020, 10:51:55 pm
by patrick jane
4 Replies
607 Views
Last post September 04, 2020, 05:04:21 pm
by Jesus Truth

+-Recent Topics

The Five Discourses of Jesus by Bladerunner
Today at 03:45:43 pm

Hidden Teachings Of The Bible by Bladerunner
Today at 03:36:01 pm

A VERY SMALL REMNANT by Bladerunner
Today at 03:32:00 pm

Faith by Bladerunner
Today at 03:21:47 pm

Ministry On Video by Lion Of Judah by patrick jane
Today at 09:31:51 am

Trump 2020 - Winning !!! by patrick jane
September 28, 2020, 11:28:49 pm

Politics Today by patrick jane
September 28, 2020, 11:28:37 pm

Re: Trump 2020 - Winning !!! by patrick jane
September 28, 2020, 11:28:14 pm

Re: Politics Today by patrick jane
September 28, 2020, 11:28:02 pm

Project Veritas and More - EXPOSED by patrick jane
September 28, 2020, 10:11:04 pm

Democrats Try To "FIX" The 2020 Election - Fake Ballots by patrick jane
September 28, 2020, 10:10:19 pm

What will you say after you are dead? by patrick jane
September 28, 2020, 09:34:34 pm

The kingdom of heaven by patrick jane
September 28, 2020, 09:34:07 pm

ANGELS & DEMONS by patrick jane
September 28, 2020, 09:32:10 pm

CORONAVIRUS - THE PALE HORSE by patrick jane
September 28, 2020, 09:28:58 pm

Coronavirus hoax to declare martial law (FEMA) by patrick jane
September 28, 2020, 09:28:34 pm

The schemes of Satan by patrick jane
September 28, 2020, 09:22:08 pm

Has it Begun? Deep State Indictments by Bladerunner
September 28, 2020, 08:26:46 pm