patrick jane forums

I contend this story is not a parable:
[Luke 16:20 KJV] "And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,"
[Luke 16:22 KJV] "And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;"
[Luke 16:23 KJV] "And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom."
[Luke 16:24 KJV] "And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame."
[Luke 16:25 KJV] "But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented."
[Luke 16:26 KJV] "And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that [would come] from thence."
[Luke 16:27 KJV] "Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:"
[Luke 16:28 KJV] "For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment."........................Lazarus and the rich man isn't a parable. It doesn't say it is a parable. It is too specific in details and can be understood clearly, which isn't the case for parables. This is a literal account of a real event portraying real people.

[Mark 4:2 KJV] "And he taught them many things by parables, and said unto them in his doctrine,"........Jesus taught many things by parables, but not all he taught was a parable. Here is an example of Jesus teaching without a parable.......[Matthew 5:2 KJV] "And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,"
[Matthew 5:4 KJV] "Blessed [are] they that mourn: for they shall be comforted."

[Matthew 13:10 KJV] "And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?"
[Matthew 13:11 KJV] "He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.".........When Jesus taught about the kingdom he taught it in parables so the unbelieving would not understand; unbelieving Israel would not inherit the kingdom. The primary theme of the parables is the mysteries of the kingdom. The kingdom is the prophetic, promised Davidic covenant kingdom on earth, in which believing Israel will reign with Christ for a thousand years. This can be seen by the following parables:
[Matthew 13:24 KJV] "Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:"
[Matthew 13:31 KJV] "Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:"
[Matthew 13:33 KJV] "Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened."...........In the story of Lazarus and the rich man there is nothing that can be remotely related to the kingdom on earth.

[Matthew 21:33 KJV] "Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:".........Parables conveyed that the establishment of the kingdom would be delayed.     

Parables don't just have teachings about the kingdom in common, also in common is the use of hidden meaning and lack of understanding:
[Matthew 13:4 KJV] "And when he sowed, some [seeds] fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up: [Matthew 13:19 KJV] "When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth [it] not, then cometh the wicked [one], and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side."..........Words used hide what is meant; the seeds were the word of the kingdom, which could not be known, it's meaning was hid.

[Matthew 13:24 KJV] "Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:"
[Matthew 13:38 KJV] "The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one];".........Parables don't speak clearly and plainly, they require explanation, unlike Lazarus and the rich man where no explanation is needed to understand everything said. The story of Lazarus and the rich man speak plainly..........[John 16:29 KJV] "His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb."

[1 Corinthians 9:1 KJV] "Am I not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?"..........Paul was made an apostle. Paul saw the risen Christ.............[Acts 1:22 KJV] "Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection."..........Judas's death necessitated a replacement to make twelve apostles. This verse details the requirements that had to be met to be an apostle with the other eleven disciples. Paul could be an apostle because he met the stipulation to have seen the risen Lord. Paul however, didn't meet the requirement to have been with Jesus from the beginning of John's baptism and therefore was not able to be ordained as a witness to the resurrection along with the apostles. This answers those that say the apostles picked the wrong replacement, which they say should have been Paul. It also precludes there being just one church; Paul could not be an apostle along with the twelve to oversee the same church body. Peter's apostleship was to the Jews, but Paul was not an apostle alongside Peter, Paul's apostleship was to the Gentiles........[Galatians 2:8 KJV] "(For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)"

[Luke 24:27 KJV] "And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself."...........This verse says beginning at Moses and the prophets, beginning? so does that mean he went beyond them and revealed a whole lot more? No it just means he started with Moses. Jesus restricted his elaboration of the scriptures concerning him to Moses and the prophets, which was all the available scripture at that time. He would not have revealed anything later revealed to Paul because there were no Pauline scriptures yet (he did say he expounded scripture only and Paul as yet didn't write any). Jesus could not have revealed anything Paul communicated because this verse says beforehand it was not made known unto men which would mean Jesus wouldn't have made it know to those disciples.......[Ephesians 3:4 KJV] "Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)"
[Ephesians 3:5 KJV] "Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;"

Here are some interesting questions I was asked:

Where is paradise located? Paradise is in the heart of the earth..............[Matthew 12:40 KJV] "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.".........Strong defines the heart "as of the middle or central or inmost part of anything, even though inanimate". The heart would be the center of the earth.

Is the thief still there? I don't know for sure as there is no scripture that says anything about that. I know that the body of Christ church goes to heaven. The old testament saints and the new testament saints that believed on Jesus during his earthly ministry and Acts are never said to go to heaven when they die. I can only assume the thief and those saints are in Abraham's bosom, but my opinion means little...............[John 5:28 KJV] "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,"
[John 5:29 KJV] "And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."
[Daniel 12:2 KJV] "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt.".........These verses would make one conclude that these saints would just be sleeping in the grave until the resurrection awakes them. This verse offers a difference from thinking the dead will just be in the grave..............[Matthew 27:52 KJV] "And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,"..........this verse says only their bodies were in the graves. The other thing is both the beggar (Luke 16:19-31) and the malefactor on the cross (Luke 23:43) were not just in the grave, but they were in Abraham's bosom.

Where is Christ now, is he still in Abraham's bosom? Christ is now in heaven..........[Ephesians 1:20 KJV] "Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places],"

[Psalm 68:18 KJV] "Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, [for] the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell [among them]."
[Ephesians 4:8 KJV] "Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men."........It is said that this verse shows that those in Abraham's bosom were taken to heaven. I think it is saying when Jesus ascended he led the captivity of the devil captive. The devil has taken us into captivity............[2 Timothy 2:26 KJV] "And [that] they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.".........I don't see this as saying Christ emptied Abraham's bosom upon his ascension.

[Luke 23:42 KJV] "And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom."
[Luke 23:43 KJV] "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."..........Paradise is not heaven. We can find what is meant by being in paradise in the passage in Luke........[Luke 16:22 KJV] "And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;"
[Luke 16:23 KJV] "And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom."
[Luke 16:26 KJV] "And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that [would come] from thence."..........This isn't a parable, it isn't called a parable. This account describes paradise as Abraham's bosom. Hell is a separate compartment, in which in torment, they can see those in paradise/Abraham's bosom.