Patrick Jane Forums | Anthropology, Theology, Conspiracy

Theology, Anthropology & Archaeology => EVANGELISM & THEOLOGY => Topic started by: Billy Evmur on April 03, 2020, 06:07:59 am

Title: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Billy Evmur on April 03, 2020, 06:07:59 am
The first thing to do is to distinguish the Great Tribulation from the Wrath of God. Paul teaches that we are clean escaped from the wrath of God, nobody gets left behind in the Rapture, that is a bunch of nonsense, we have been bought with the precious blood of Jesus.
[/size]
[/size]But says Paul "through great tribulation must we be saved" he says this in relation to the persecution he and his fellow apostles were undergoing along with the Thessalonians.
[/size]
[/size]Tribulation is persecution and comes from man, the Great Tribulation is the great end-time persecution which Jesus warned about saying "you will be hated by all men for My name's sake."
[/size]
[/size]The persecutor will be Antichrist, the beast.
[/size]
[/size]Why am I sure that the church will go through the Great Tribulation?
[/size]
[/size]It's very simple, since the source of the tribulation is Antichrist, all must take his number or perish, but His career is ended when Jesus returns. As soon as he seats himself in the temple declaring that he himself is God the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout and slay him with the breath of His mouth.
[/size]
[/size]But Antichrist will have had his career, opposing every thing called god. His mission will have been to stamp out all religion.
[/size]
[/size]The church is taken out at that time [what is left of it] Paul says "we who are left and remain" I dunno that just seems to indicate to me not very many. Jesus asks "but when the Son of man returns will He find faith on earth?"
[/size]
[/size]Then comes the wrath of God upon the unbelieving world.
[/size]
[/size]I believe many will be saved, we read of Enoch that he walked with God and was not for God took him. This is the first rapture recorded in the bible and thereafter "men began to call upon the Lord."
[/size]
[/size]The wicked who remain will flee to the end of the earth. The Millennium reign will be rolled out from Jerusalem, although His appearance is sudden and a worldwide event.
[/size]

Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Bladerunner on April 03, 2020, 07:05:02 am
The first thing to do is to distinguish the Great Tribulation from the Wrath of God. Paul teaches that we are clean escaped from the wrath of God, nobody gets left behind in the Rapture, that is a bunch of nonsense, we have been bought with the precious blood of Jesus.
[/size]
[/size]But says Paul "through great tribulation must we be saved" he says this in relation to the persecution he and his fellow apostles were undergoing along with the Thessalonians.
[/size]
[/size]Tribulation is persecution and comes from man, the Great Tribulation is the great end-time persecution which Jesus warned about saying "you will be hated by all men for My name's sake."
[/size]
[/size]The persecutor will be Antichrist, the beast.
[/size]
[/size]Why am I sure that the church will go through the Great Tribulation?
[/size]
[/size]It's very simple, since the source of the tribulation is Antichrist, all must take his number or perish, but His career is ended when Jesus returns. As soon as he seats himself in the temple declaring that he himself is God the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout and slay him with the breath of His mouth.
[/size]
[/size]But Antichrist will have had his career, opposing every thing called god. His mission will have been to stamp out all religion.
[/size]
[/size]The church is taken out at that time [what is left of it] Paul says "we who are left and remain" I dunno that just seems to indicate to me not very many. Jesus asks "but when the Son of man returns will He find faith on earth?"
[/size]
[/size]Then comes the wrath of God upon the unbelieving world.
[/size]
[/size]I believe many will be saved, we read of Enoch that he walked with God and was not for God took him. This is the first rapture recorded in the bible and thereafter "men began to call upon the Lord."
[/size]
[/size]The wicked who remain will flee to the end of the earth. The Millennium reign will be rolled out from Jerusalem, although His appearance is sudden and a worldwide event.
[/size]

Nice article Billy, but not Biblical

Blade
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Billy Evmur on April 03, 2020, 09:08:21 am
It's hardly biblical to think that people will have to accept the number of the beast in the Mill ... the beast is slain at the coming of the Lord and the devil locked up during the Mill.
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Bladerunner on April 03, 2020, 03:15:40 pm
It's hardly biblical to think that people will have to accept the number of the beast in the Mill ... the beast is slain at the coming of the Lord and the devil locked up during the Mill.

The Church (body of Christ) will not go through GOD's Wrath which begins with the opening of the seals. some say the 6th seal is where GOD's wrath starts but it is Jesus Christ who sends the four horses to earth and those under the altar (Rev 5) are those Martyred (they were the ones left behind).

Blade
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: patrick jane on April 03, 2020, 07:14:32 pm
It's hardly biblical to think that people will have to accept the number of the beast in the Mill ... the beast is slain at the coming of the Lord and the devil locked up during the Mill.

The Church (body of Christ) will not go through GOD's Wrath which begins with the opening of the seals. some say the 6th seal is where GOD's wrath starts but it is Jesus Christ who sends the four horses to earth and those under the altar (Rev 5) are those Martyred (they were the ones left behind).

Blade
Yet are not the Four Horsemen always active in the earth at different places and times?
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Bladerunner on April 03, 2020, 08:00:46 pm
It's hardly biblical to think that people will have to accept the number of the beast in the Mill ... the beast is slain at the coming of the Lord and the devil locked up during the Mill.

The Church (body of Christ) will not go through GOD's Wrath which begins with the opening of the seals. some say the 6th seal is where GOD's wrath starts but it is Jesus Christ who sends the four horses to earth and those under the altar (Rev 5) are those Martyred (they were the ones left behind).

Blade
Yet are not the Four Horsemen always active in the earth at different places and times?

Not according to the Word of GOD!

Yes, there are Wars and Rumors of WAR....in Mat 24, Luke 21 but the Horsemen are very specific at a very specific period of time and they are part of GOD's Wrath.



Blade
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Billy Evmur on April 04, 2020, 04:27:15 am
It's hardly biblical to think that people will have to accept the number of the beast in the Mill ... the beast is slain at the coming of the Lord and the devil locked up during the Mill.

The Church (body of Christ) will not go through GOD's Wrath which begins with the opening of the seals. some say the 6th seal is where GOD's wrath starts but it is Jesus Christ who sends the four horses to earth and those under the altar (Rev 5) are those Martyred (they were the ones left behind).

Blade


We will not go through God's wrath, we will go through the great tribulation ... Tribulation comes from the word trouble, it is not from God it is from man.


When Jesus first came the bible says Herod was troubled and all Jerusalem with him. It is called the time of "Jacob's trouble"


Now Jacob's trouble was when he fled from Laban and was returning to his own land to face [he thought] the wrath of Esau.


You would be so much better drawing your prophecy from open scriptures than trying to figger out Revelations, or reading the likes of crooks like Schofield and Lindsey. Not that Revelations is wrong but no two people agree on what it says.


Jeremiah says of the time of Jacob's trouble in plain language easily understood  Israel will be SAFE and none shall make him afraid. Jeremiah 30. Like Jacob himself it will be a time of fear and trembling but just as Jacob was safe, guarded by angels, so will Israel be. 
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Bladerunner on April 04, 2020, 04:25:59 pm
It's hardly biblical to think that people will have to accept the number of the beast in the Mill ... the beast is slain at the coming of the Lord and the devil locked up during the Mill.

WOW!,, you really got it bad....SO SAD!

Blade

The Church (body of Christ) will not go through GOD's Wrath which begins with the opening of the seals. some say the 6th seal is where GOD's wrath starts but it is Jesus Christ who sends the four horses to earth and those under the altar (Rev 5) are those Martyred (they were the ones left behind).

Blade


We will not go through God's wrath, we will go through the great tribulation ... Tribulation comes from the word trouble, it is not from God it is from man.


When Jesus first came the bible says Herod was troubled and all Jerusalem with him. It is called the time of "Jacob's trouble"


Now Jacob's trouble was when he fled from Laban and was returning to his own land to face [he thought] the wrath of Esau.


You would be so much better drawing your prophecy from open scriptures than trying to figger out Revelations, or reading the likes of crooks like Schofield and Lindsey. Not that Revelations is wrong but no two people agree on what it says.


Jeremiah says of the time of Jacob's trouble in plain language easily understood  Israel will be SAFE and none shall make him afraid. Jeremiah 30. Like Jacob himself it will be a time of fear and trembling but just as Jacob was safe, guarded by angels, so will Israel be.
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Billy Evmur on April 05, 2020, 05:09:38 pm
The great end-time persecution stops when Jesus returns for the great persecutor will be slain and the devil locked up.


This is Paul's description of the Rapture.


"the dead in Christ will rise first then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the clouds"


He doesn't say a thing about any left behind nor does any other scripture.
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Bladerunner on April 06, 2020, 07:12:27 pm
The great end-time persecution stops when Jesus returns for the great persecutor will be slain and the devil locked up.


This is Paul's description of the Rapture.


"the dead in Christ will rise first then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the clouds"



He doesn't say a thing about any left behind nor does any other scripture.

Ah, you are using the Post Trib Rapture....It can be taken apart piece by piece, that is if by chance you read Rev. Literally.

Blade

Read the gospels literally

Jesus said "after [that is post] the tribulation of those days .... they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory and He will send forth His angels to gather the elect from the four corners of heaven ..."
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Billy Evmur on April 07, 2020, 06:14:35 pm
The great end-time persecution stops when Jesus returns for the great persecutor will be slain and the devil locked up.


This is Paul's description of the Rapture.


"the dead in Christ will rise first then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the clouds"


He doesn't say a thing about any left behind nor does any other scripture.


If you had been able to gather all the Jews in Germany together in 1930 and you had warned them of all that was about to befall them within the space of a very few years time they would not have believed you.


The church similarly is sleepwalking.


When the Great Persecution starts it will start suddenly, suddenly the most hated thing in the world to be will be to be a bible believing christian. The devil has been creeping up on the church for years, laying his trap, the trap will spring suddenly.


I believe a false prophet is to arise in Israel, doing great [pretended] signs and wonders and proclaiming the soon arrival of Messiah. The whole world will be amazed and will believe him. This will be the cause of the hatred poured upon the true church. The WHOLE church, the most prominent denominations will be the first to bear the brunt.
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Bladerunner on April 07, 2020, 06:58:21 pm
The great end-time persecution stops when Jesus returns for the great persecutor will be slain and the devil locked up.


This is Paul's description of the Rapture.


"the dead in Christ will rise first then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the clouds"


He doesn't say a thing about any left behind nor does any other scripture.


If you had been able to gather all the Jews in Germany together in 1930 and you had warned them of all that was about to befall them within the space of a very few years time they would not have believed you.


The church similarly is sleepwalking.


When the Great Persecution starts it will start suddenly, suddenly the most hated thing in the world to be will be to be a bible believing christian. The devil has been creeping up on the church for years, laying his trap, the trap will spring suddenly.


I believe a false prophet is to arise in Israel, doing great [pretended] signs and wonders and proclaiming the soon arrival of Messiah. The whole world will be amazed and will believe him. This will be the cause of the hatred poured upon the true church. The WHOLE church, the most prominent denominations will be the first to bear the brunt.

wow!
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Billy Evmur on May 01, 2020, 04:04:49 am
The great end-time persecution stops when Jesus returns for the great persecutor will be slain and the devil locked up.


This is Paul's description of the Rapture.


"the dead in Christ will rise first then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the clouds"



He doesn't say a thing about any left behind nor does any other scripture.

Ah, you are using the Post Trib Rapture....It can be taken apart piece by piece, that is if by chance you read Rev. Literally.

Blade

Read the gospels literally

Jesus said "after [that is post] the tribulation of those days .... they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory and He will send forth His angels to gather the elect from the four corners of heaven ..."
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Bladerunner on May 02, 2020, 09:17:50 pm
Billy You sound more like a Catholic everyday.

Jesus did say that in Mat 24:30.(KJV).."Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: v30..And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.[ Notice that everyone can see him at His second coming!!!

But Jesus also said:

1 Thes 4:13-18..(KJV).."But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. v14..For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. v15..For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. v16..For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: v17..Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. v18.[/u].Wherefore comfort one another with these words".

[i]Here we meet him in the Clouds...He does not come to earth and he does not tell us that the whole earth sees him.[/i]

Jesus also tells us that we should take comfort in these words. Yet, it would be hard to take comfort if we are told that we will have to get beat up, possibly tortured and beheaded, etc. before we can go out to a bride's elect dinner. (Rev 19:7-9)

Rev 19:7-9.." Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. v8..And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. v9..And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God."

Billy "the Church" (His church, His body, His Bride Elect) will not go through Daniel's 70th week. 

In Rev 3:7, Jesus is speaking to the Church at Philadelphia  and he tells them..
Rev 3:10..(KJV).."Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

For in Mat 24:24..(KJV).."For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

If it were possible::::::The only way it would not be possible for the false Christs to deceive the "VERY ELECT" is for the "VERY ELECT" not to be there.

There are many other verses that say the same thing.....

Have a good evening Billy

Blade





Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Jesus Truth on May 03, 2020, 05:13:54 am
I have to agree with Blade, Billy Boy.
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Billy Evmur on May 03, 2020, 05:38:48 am
Billy You sound more like a Catholic everyday.

Jesus did say that in Mat 24:30.(KJV).."Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: v30..And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.[ Notice that everyone can see him at His second coming!!!

But Jesus also said:

1 Thes 4:13-18..(KJV).."But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. v14..For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. v15..For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. v16..For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: v17..Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. v18..Wherefore comfort one another with these words".

[i]Here we meet him in the Clouds...He does not come to earth and he does not tell us that the whole earth sees him.


Jesus also tells us that we should take comfort in these words. Yet, it would be hard to take comfort if we are told that we will have to get beat up, possibly tortured and beheaded, etc. before we can go out to a bride's elect dinner. (Rev 19:7-9)

Rev 19:7-9.." Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. v8..And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. v9..And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God."

Billy "the Church" (His church, His body, His Bride Elect) will not go through Daniel's 70th week. 

In Rev 3:7, Jesus is speaking to the Church at Philadelphia  and he tells them..
Rev 3:10..(KJV).."Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

For in Mat 24:24..(KJV).."For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

If it were possible::::::The only way it would not be possible for the false Christs to deceive the "VERY ELECT" is for the "VERY ELECT" not to be there.

There are many other verses that say the same thing.....

Have a good evening Billy

Blade








There is only one coming in the clouds with great power and glory for the gathering of the elect by the holy angels. The one spoken of in Matt.24 is certainly the same as the one spoken of in 2.Thess.2. Paul does not say every eye shall see Him but Jesus does and so does John. So every eye SHALL see Him, the secret Rap is a myth.


And Jesus said it will be "AFTER the tribulation of those days" that is POST tribulation.


"The dead shall rise first ..." THIS is what Paul said we should take comfort in, the Thessies had worried that folk who had fallen asleep in Christ would miss the boat.


You cannot take Christ's message to the church of Philidelphia and apply it to the end-time church, Jesus said that many would be deceived by false prophets and false Christs, He said many will fall away, brethren will betray each other. The hearts of many will grow cold.


... but the elect will not be decieved.


Many saints have already been beat up and tortured and beheaded, look into what is happening to the Chinese church. The Reformation in Britain was sealed by the blood of martyrs, burned at the stake rather than adore the communion bread. "Take heart they cried to each other, we shall light a candle in England today which will never be extinguished..." One woman went to the stake dressed in her wedding dress for she said "Today I will meet my Bridegroom"
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Billy Evmur on May 03, 2020, 05:41:30 am
I have to agree with Blade, Billy Boy.


That's ok.


Blade and I have a history of disagreement but I hope we are still friends.
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Bladerunner on May 03, 2020, 07:04:01 pm
I have to agree with Blade, Billy Boy.


That's ok.


Blade and I have a history of disagreement but I hope we are still friends.

Of Course we are, but I am going to keep trying to get you to see the pretrib theology....


Blade
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Billy Evmur on May 04, 2020, 04:11:16 am
I have to agree with Blade, Billy Boy.


That's ok.


Blade and I have a history of disagreement but I hope we are still friends.




Of Course we are, but I am going to keep trying to get you to see the pretrib theology....


Blade


It is a modern doctrine, Jesus said "after the tribulation of those days ... they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds" after means post.


Darby's interpretation was thrown out by British theologians so he took it to America. It is a lie.
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Bladerunner on May 04, 2020, 09:21:04 pm
I have to agree with Blade, Billy Boy.

That's ok.


Blade and I have a history of disagreement but I hope we are still friends.




Of Course we are, but I am going to keep trying to get you to see the pretrib theology....


Blade


It is a modern doctrine, Jesus said "after the tribulation of those days ... they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds" after means post.


Darby's interpretation was thrown out by British theologians so he took it to America. It is a lie.


Billy.....Mat 24:29 starts out with your words.."Immediately after the tribulation of those days" Yet, you are forgetting the context of the previous verses that Jesus is speaking of...

Starting in Mat 24:15, Jesus is telling us about the AoD that will take place and He warns people to flea Judiah immediately.   

The in Mat 24:21, His words should jar the teeth of all humanity....(KJV).."For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

This "Great Tribulation" is the same as  'Jacob's Trouble' spoken by Jeremiah 30:7.

And then Jesus speaks of something unrealistic in Mat 24:22.."And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."  What would cause an earthly catastrophe that would kill all life on earth....Could this be Nuclear War?
It could not have been thought of in the 1860. a musket would /could not kill the whole world.

I regress,the context of your verses Mat 24:29-30..specifically Verse 29 starts out with "Immediately after the tribulation of those days" Yes, immediately after the "Great Tribulation" where 2/3 of the Jewish Nation will die and 1/3 of them will become the Remnant of all Israel.

Yes, this is the second coming of Christ as prophecy has foretold.

YET, Jesus is speaking to the Jews of the time...His Church had not even started at this time.... He was telling the Jews what was going to happen to them specifially.....Later in Acts 2, the Church is born and those who believe in His Gospel will be spared the horrors of Daniel's 70th  containing "the Great Tribulation/ Jacob's trouble.

Billy, If you are in Christ totally, then you will not have to live through this time period. You and I will watch it from the Messinine of Heaven.

Darby did not interpret "that Lie" as you call it.....for it was taught prior to 1800's.

I found this in the Koinonia house archives: Grant Jeffrey has found an ancient citation from a sermon ascribed to Ephraem of Nisibis (306-373 a.d.), which clearly teaches that believers will be raptured and taken to Heaven before The Tribulation  (The citation was found in a footnote in Paul J. Alexander's The Byzantine Apocalyptic Tradition, University of California Press, Berkeley, CA, 1985, p. 210. Dr. Paul Alexander is probably the most authoritative scholar on the writings of the early Byzantine Church. )

Ephraem of Nisibis was the most important and prolific of the Syrian church fathers and a witness to early Christianity on the fringes of the Roman Empire in the late fourth century. 

This sermon is deemed to be one of the most interesting apocalyptic texts of the early Middle Ages. The translation of the sermon includes the following segment:  (The English translation of the Latin text in C.P. Caspari's Briefe, Abhandlungen und Predigten aus den zwei letzten Jahrhunderten des kirchlichen Altertums und dem Anfang des Mittelater (Christiania, 1890, pp. 208-20) was provided by Cameron Rhoades, instructor of Latin at Tyndale Theological Seminary, Ft. Worth, TX. )

    "For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins."



Billy, I ask you,...there are all kinds of proof that the Rapture was preached back to Paul's days....FoDO you really doubt the WORD of JESUS that much?

 It is worth saying again.:Ephraem of Nisibis did NOT doubt. Again a part of His sermon in the fourth century (300s)..,

"For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins"

Blade



Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Billy Evmur on May 05, 2020, 07:26:14 am
I have to agree with Blade, Billy Boy.

That's ok.


Blade and I have a history of disagreement but I hope we are still friends.




Of Course we are, but I am going to keep trying to get you to see the pretrib theology....


Blade


It is a modern doctrine, Jesus said "after the tribulation of those days ... they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds" after means post.


Darby's interpretation was thrown out by British theologians so he took it to America. It is a lie.


Billy.....Mat 24:29 starts out with your words.."Immediately after the tribulation of those days" Yet, you are forgetting the context of the previous verses that Jesus is speaking of...

Starting in Mat 24:15, Jesus is telling us about the AoD that will take place and He warns people to flea Judiah immediately.   

The in Mat 24:21, His words should jar the teeth of all humanity....(KJV).."For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

This "Great Tribulation" is the same as  'Jacob's Trouble' spoken by Jeremiah 30:7.

And then Jesus speaks of something unrealistic in Mat 24:22.."And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."  What would cause an earthly catastrophe that would kill all life on earth....Could this be Nuclear War?
It could not have been thought of in the 1860. a musket would /could not kill the whole world.

I regress,the context of your verses Mat 24:29-30..specifically Verse 29 starts out with "Immediately after the tribulation of those days" Yes, immediately after the "Great Tribulation" where 2/3 of the Jewish Nation will die and 1/3 of them will become the Remnant of all Israel.

Yes, this is the second coming of Christ as prophecy has foretold.

YET, Jesus is speaking to the Jews of the time...His Church had not even started at this time.... He was telling the Jews what was going to happen to them specifially.....Later in Acts 2, the Church is born and those who believe in His Gospel will be spared the horrors of Daniel's 70th  containing "the Great Tribulation/ Jacob's trouble.

Billy, If you are in Christ totally, then you will not have to live through this time period. You and I will watch it from the Messinine of Heaven.

Darby did not interpret "that Lie" as you call it.....for it was taught prior to 1800's.

I found this in the Koinonia house archives: Grant Jeffrey has found an ancient citation from a sermon ascribed to Ephraem of Nisibis (306-373 a.d.), which clearly teaches that believers will be raptured and taken to Heaven before The Tribulation  (The citation was found in a footnote in Paul J. Alexander's The Byzantine Apocalyptic Tradition, University of California Press, Berkeley, CA, 1985, p. 210. Dr. Paul Alexander is probably the most authoritative scholar on the writings of the early Byzantine Church. )

Ephraem of Nisibis was the most important and prolific of the Syrian church fathers and a witness to early Christianity on the fringes of the Roman Empire in the late fourth century. 

This sermon is deemed to be one of the most interesting apocalyptic texts of the early Middle Ages. The translation of the sermon includes the following segment:  (The English translation of the Latin text in C.P. Caspari's Briefe, Abhandlungen und Predigten aus den zwei letzten Jahrhunderten des kirchlichen Altertums und dem Anfang des Mittelater (Christiania, 1890, pp. 208-20) was provided by Cameron Rhoades, instructor of Latin at Tyndale Theological Seminary, Ft. Worth, TX. )

    "For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins."



Billy, I ask you,...there are all kinds of proof that the Rapture was preached back to Paul's days....FoDO you really doubt the WORD of JESUS that much?

 It is worth saying again.:Ephraem of Nisibis did NOT doubt. Again a part of His sermon in the fourth century (300s)..,

"For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, andare taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins"

Blade


Pershaw!! Ephraim of Nisibis [bizniz] is that the best you can do? It is better to go by scripture and the consensus of the church. Paul says the last days will be perilous when men are fierce haters of God. When Jesus says "you will be hated of all men for My sake"


He doesn't say "immediately after those days 2/3s of Israel will be slaughtered and only a remnant left" YOU say that.


I've shown you and you AGREE that the tribulation responds to Jacob's trouble, the time of greatest trouble since there was a nation. Jeremiah talks about it, he says Israel will be SAVED, they shall be AT REST and NONE SHALL MAKE THEM AFRAID. Read it in chapter 30.


Daniel talks about it he says St Michael will stand up for Israel and deliver them. Read it in chapter 12.


It is the CHURCH that goes through the Great Tribulation or at least the first 3 and 1/2 years of it, for the elect's sake it will be shortened or no flesh would survive.

Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Bladerunner on May 05, 2020, 06:55:58 pm
you said: Pershaw!! Ephraim of Nisibis [bizniz] is that the best you can do? It is better to go by scripture and the consensus of the church. Paul says the last days will be perilous when men are fierce haters of God. When Jesus says "you will be hated of all men for My sake"

Yes, Jesus was speaking directly to the Jews and they have been hated but Anti-Semitics is making a come back after the WWII and it will hit the Jewish Nation with a vengeance. We have only seen the tip of the iceburg concerning the hatred for the Jews of the world.

Billy, It appears, that no matter what  proof I give you, you close your eyes and ears each time and will not research it for yourself if what I am saying is true...Here you are breaking a commandment of GOD......But it seems you really do not care.

Blade
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Billy Evmur on May 06, 2020, 03:11:36 am
Jesus said you will be hated by all men for my name's sake so it is the church. I reject your doctrinal position and show you in every case what the bible says.


Yes the Jews are hated and they will be chased back to their homeland but they will be Jeremiah says saved, Daniel says St michael will stand up and they will be delivered.


The church has been a major instrument in the persecution of the Jews, it is ingrained in the church, the thought they are Christ rejecters, it started with the RCC and it carried right over into the reformation. I believe this is a reason why the church must go through the Great Tribulation.


I research the bible, your pretribulation rapture doctrine is a contrivance of men and was not the doctrine of the church until modern times. Christ said "After [that is post] the tribulation of those days the church will be gathered"


So who is it who is not researching?
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Bladerunner on May 06, 2020, 11:28:03 am
Jesus said you will be hated by all men for my name's sake so it is the church. I reject your doctrinal position and show you in every case what the bible says.

Jesus was speaking to Jews and not the CHurch was not yet born...



Yes the Jews are hated and they will be chased back to their homeland but they will be Jeremiah says saved, Daniel says St michael will stand up and they will be delivered.

Billy, at least insert the scripture you are quoting from?

The church has been a major instrument in the persecution of the Jews, it is ingrained in the church, the thought they are Christ rejecters, it started with the RCC and it carried right over into the reformation. I believe this is a reason why the church must go through the Great Tribulation.

Billy, Yes you are right about the Church (brick and mortar).   Ah I see the Problem you are having....It is separatig the CHurch (brick and Mortar from the Spiritual Church of Jesus (his Body /Bride Elect)...They are two different things...

The Church (brick and mortar) include most of the denominations and non-denominations including the RCC. They say they are in Christ but 90% are not.

The Spiritual Church contains the the only TRUE believers. These believers include both races of the earth. (Gentile and Jew)..I am part of that Church and support Israel at all times. 

If you will learn to separate these two entities, you and I will agree on much we have previous disagreed on.




I research the bible, your pretribulation rapture doctrine is a contrivance of men and was not the doctrine of the church until modern times. Christ said "After [that is post] the tribulation of those days the church will be gathered" 

No, Billy, you have it turned around., I can and have been proving the Rapture was actually believed in since the 100 AD and before. You have to really be careful with the "After the tribulation of those days".  I explained this before and I would bet you did not been read it....you are so set in your beliefs, you will not follow the commands of Jesus /Paul in (Acts 17:11).

so sad.



So who is it who is not researching?

Yes who ins not researching anything.......when you through off proof with a (BIZNIZ) comment....

Blade
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Billy Evmur on May 07, 2020, 05:29:44 am
Jesus said you will be hated by all men for my name's sake so it is the church. I reject your doctrinal position and show you in every case what the bible says.

Jesus was speaking to Jews and not the CHurch was not yet born...



Yes the Jews are hated and they will be chased back to their homeland but they will be Jeremiah says saved, Daniel says St michael will stand up and they will be delivered.

Billy, at least insert the scripture you are quoting from?

The church has been a major instrument in the persecution of the Jews, it is ingrained in the church, the thought they are Christ rejecters, it started with the RCC and it carried right over into the reformation. I believe this is a reason why the church must go through the Great Tribulation.

Billy, Yes you are right about the Church (brick and mortar).   Ah I see the Problem you are having....It is separatig the CHurch (brick and Mortar from the Spiritual Church of Jesus (his Body /Bride Elect)...They are two different things...

The Church (brick and mortar) include most of the denominations and non-denominations including the RCC. They say they are in Christ but 90% are not.

The Spiritual Church contains the the only TRUE believers. These believers include both races of the earth. (Gentile and Jew)..I am part of that Church and support Israel at all times. 

If you will learn to separate these two entities, you and I will agree on much we have previous disagreed on.




I research the bible, your pretribulation rapture doctrine is a contrivance of men and was not the doctrine of the church until modern times. Christ said "After [that is post] the tribulation of those days the church will be gathered" 

No, Billy, you have it turned around., I can and have been proving the Rapture was actually believed in since the 100 AD and before. You have to really be careful with the "After the tribulation of those days".  I explained this before and I would bet you did not been read it....you are so set in your beliefs, you will not follow the commands of Jesus /Paul in (Acts 17:11).

so sad.



So who is it who is not researching?

Yes who ins not researching anything.......when you through off proof with a (BIZNIZ) comment....

Blade


Jesus was speaking to His disciples who are the church, "persecuted for My name's sake..." 

I'm afraid the antisemitism goes beyond brick and mortar, Luther who was used above everybody to reform the church hated the Jews and they were generally hated by the church.


And I say to you this idea that the Jews must go through the tribulation is a reflection of this ingrained idea.


I say God is no longer scattering Israel He is gathering them, He is no longer punishing them He is blessing them and will continue to do so.


The best theologians have ALL rejected pretrib. It is just the pop theologians. The church has always believed that the endtimes would be perilous.


I read ALL your replies very carefully. else I would not be able to respond to each point.
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Bladerunner on May 07, 2020, 09:06:47 am
Jesus said you will be hated by all men for my name's sake so it is the church. I reject your doctrinal position and show you in every case what the bible says.

Jesus was speaking to Jews and not the CHurch was not yet born...



Yes the Jews are hated and they will be chased back to their homeland but they will be Jeremiah says saved, Daniel says St michael will stand up and they will be delivered.

Billy, at least insert the scripture you are quoting from?

The church has been a major instrument in the persecution of the Jews, it is ingrained in the church, the thought they are Christ rejecters, it started with the RCC and it carried right over into the reformation. I believe this is a reason why the church must go through the Great Tribulation.

Billy, Yes you are right about the Church (brick and mortar).   Ah I see the Problem you are having....It is separatig the CHurch (brick and Mortar from the Spiritual Church of Jesus (his Body /Bride Elect)...They are two different things...

The Church (brick and mortar) include most of the denominations and non-denominations including the RCC. They say they are in Christ but 90% are not.

The Spiritual Church contains the the only TRUE believers. These believers include both races of the earth. (Gentile and Jew)..I am part of that Church and support Israel at all times. 

If you will learn to separate these two entities, you and I will agree on much we have previous disagreed on.






I research the bible, your pretribulation rapture doctrine is a contrivance of men and was not the doctrine of the church until modern times. Christ said "After [that is post] the tribulation of those days the church will be gathered" 

No, Billy, you have ignored what proof I have given.The Pre-TRIB Doctrine is part of the Bible, God's Word., I can and have been proving the Rapture was actually believed in since the 100 AD and before. You have to really be careful with the "After the tribulation of those days".  I explained this before and I would bet you did not been read it....you are so set in your beliefs, you will not follow the commands of Jesus /Paul in (Acts 17:11).

so sad.



So who is it who is not researching?

Yes who ins not researching anything.......when you through off proof with a (BIZNIZ) comment....

Blade

****************Next day********************

Jesus was speaking to His disciples who are the church, "persecuted for My name's sake..." 

Your kidding right?, The disciples are not the whole Church (His Body/Bride Elect) of Jesus. Those of us who are true believers are also part of that Church.  There are still many people who are also true believers and they too are persecuted/oppressed even today. It is a blessing that you and I are not in that group being persecuted, right now that is!

I'm afraid the antisemitism goes beyond brick and mortar, Luther who was used above everybody to reform the church hated the Jews and they were generally hated by the church.
Quote

 You obviously do not have idea about Luther. He had a problem with the doctrine of 'Work before Faith = Salvation'.  He had decided that Salvation was apart from the works of a person and only needed Faith/belief in Jesus Christ. All other beliefs of the RCC, he retained and thereby he was as bad as the Church during the crusades.

In fact, the letter John wrote to the Church of 'Sardis in Rev 3:1. This church through out the years has been representing the churches that have the same characteristics and the original Sardis church. Here Jesus (the author of all seven letters) decribes this time period of Luther and Darby to a tee........and He gives NOTHING they have done right! It is all bad.  His warning to them in Rev 3:3-5 to change or else....

You really need to quite listening to who ever it is you are listening to..They are giving you bad history, etc.

And I say to you this idea that the Jews must go through the tribulation is a reflection of this ingrained idea.

 what ingrained idea..I see NO idea, (ingrained  idea)or otherwise that you have put forward with any type of proof.. Mainly because you have none.

I say God is no longer scattering Israel He is gathering them, He is no longer punishing them He is blessing them and will continue to do so.

 True, God scattered them in 135 AD and partially blinded them at the same time....While He is bringing them back home to Israel, since 1948, the partial blindness remains as evidence in your refusal to see the truth of GOD's WORD as it is simply, literally read.


The best theologians have ALL rejected pretrib. It is just the pop theologians. The church has always believed that the endtimes would be perilous.

No they are not....Pre-trib has been around since the 1st century and I have proven that through God's Word (scripture) time and time again. Yet, you continue to refuse to accept it. Blinded yes.


I read ALL your replies very carefully. else I would not be able to respond to each point.

You may read them but you do not follow Act 17:11....or you would find what I have said is true.   so sad..

Blade



Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Billy Evmur on May 09, 2020, 01:38:14 am
The Great Tribulation is the end time persecution that Jesus warned us to expect. The root of the word tribulation is trouble. As when Jesus was born in Bethlehem and Herod was greatly troubled and all Jerusalem with him. Troublation comes from man, the picture is Jacob fleeing in great fear back to his homeland with Laban in hot pursuit and with meeting Esau who had vowed to kill him in prospect. But God was protecting Jacob.


Until you distinguish between the prophecies that deal with Israel's FALL and the prophecies that deal with Israel's RISE you will continue to jumble up prophecy.
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Bladerunner on May 09, 2020, 08:05:29 am
The Great Tribulation is the end time persecution that Jesus warned us to expect. The root of the word tribulation is trouble. As when Jesus was born in Bethlehem and Herod was greatly troubled and all Jerusalem with him. Troublation comes from man, the picture is Jacob fleeing in great fear back to his homeland with Laban in hot pursuit and with meeting Esau who had vowed to kill him in prospect. But God was protecting Jacob.


Until you distinguish between the prophecies that deal with Israel's FALL and the prophecies that deal with Israel's RISE you will continue to jumble up prophecy.



So you are basing your salvation on a theory that GOD will save all ISrael, all those Jews who have lived....Does this include, Esau, Ishmael, etc...

Blade

Whatever "ALL" means it certainly doesn't mean only a 1/3rd. I am happy to let the Lord decide about Esau and Ishmael, I don't believe they are damned. On the other hand it is certain that Judas Iscariot was not saved, he is called the son of perdition.

Paul's statement "ALL Israel will be saved" is difficult to weigh.
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: patrick jane on August 12, 2020, 07:19:18 am
 ;D :D
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Bladerunner on August 12, 2020, 11:13:56 pm
The Great Tribulation is the end time persecution that Jesus warned us to expect. The root of the word tribulation is trouble. As when Jesus was born in Bethlehem and Herod was greatly troubled and all Jerusalem with him. Troublation comes from man, the picture is Jacob fleeing in great fear back to his homeland with Laban in hot pursuit and with meeting Esau who had vowed to kill him in prospect. But God was protecting Jacob.


Until you distinguish between the prophecies that deal with Israel's FALL and the prophecies that deal with Israel's RISE you will continue to jumble up prophecy.



So you are basing your salvation on a theory that GOD will save all ISrael, all those Jews who have lived....Does this include, Esau, Ishmael, etc...

Blade

Whatever "ALL" means it certainly doesn't mean only a 1/3rd. I am happy to let the Lord decide about Esau and Ishmael, I don't believe they are damned. On the other hand it is certain that Judas Iscariot was not saved, he is called the son of perdition.

Paul's statement "ALL Israel will be saved" is difficult to weigh.

God said He stated Esau. I doubt that He is saved.

Blade
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Chaplain Mark Schmidt on August 12, 2020, 11:23:35 pm
Matbe I am missing something, but I am really not concerned on who in the Bible or history that is saved and God will chose.  Beyond me and my family and friends like I have here, I worry about them and give guidance when asked.  If they are passed, nothing I can do to change there status. 

However, it is a great topic for discussion.   Do you really feel Judas is beyond saving, how about Caiaphas?  I mean there was no Christian religion at the time, so not sure how both of them can be condemed when they both had to play there parts for Christ to die for usand save us from sin.

Just courious on that part.   
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Billy Evmur on August 13, 2020, 05:29:19 am
The Great Tribulation is the end time persecution that Jesus warned us to expect. The root of the word tribulation is trouble. As when Jesus was born in Bethlehem and Herod was greatly troubled and all Jerusalem with him. Troublation comes from man, the picture is Jacob fleeing in great fear back to his homeland with Laban in hot pursuit and with meeting Esau who had vowed to kill him in prospect. But God was protecting Jacob.


Until you distinguish between the prophecies that deal with Israel's FALL and the prophecies that deal with Israel's RISE you will continue to jumble up prophecy.



So you are basing your salvation on a theory that GOD will save all ISrael, all those Jews who have lived....Does this include, Esau, Ishmael, etc...

Blade

Whatever "ALL" means it certainly doesn't mean only a 1/3rd. I am happy to let the Lord decide about Esau and Ishmael, I don't believe they are damned. On the other hand it is certain that Judas Iscariot was not saved, he is called the son of perdition.

Paul's statement "ALL Israel will be saved" is difficult to weigh.

God said He stated Esau. I doubt that He is saved.

Blade
God says we must hate our mother and our father ... even our own life.


The statement simply means Jacob was preferred over Esau for the BLESSING not for salvation. Election is to be conformed to Christ, to be a blessing to the world, not unto salvation per se. Though of course we must be saved in order for that to happen.


... but it does not exclude anyone else from being saved.
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Billy Evmur on August 13, 2020, 05:34:01 am
Matbe I am missing something, but I am really not concerned on who in the Bible or history that is saved and God will chose.  Beyond me and my family and friends like I have here, I worry about them and give guidance when asked.  If they are pasted, nothing I can do to change there status. 

However, it is a great topic for discussion.   Do you really feel Judas is beyond saving, how about Caiaphas?  I mean there was no Christian religion at the time, so not sure how both of them can be condemed when they both had to play there parts for Christ to die for usand save us from sin.

Just courious on that part.


My understanding has always been that WE are passed over from judgement into life, we are saved, already part of the new creation. Everyone else will be judged.


.... but in the last judgement we see sheeps as well as goats. And this judgement takes place AFTER the 1,000 years reign, AFTER the rapture. We will have reigned with Christ in heaven and the Jews will have reigned with Him on earth. 
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Bladerunner on August 13, 2020, 08:42:57 am
Maybe I am missing something, but I am really not concerned on who in the Bible or history that is saved and God will chose.  Beyond me and my family and friends like I have here, I worry about them and give guidance when asked.  If they are pasted, nothing I can do to change there status. 

However, it is a great topic for discussion.   Do you really feel Judas is beyond saving, how about Caiaphas?  I mean there was no Christian religion at the time, so not sure how both of them can be condemed when they both had to play there parts for Christ to die for usand save us from sin.

Just courious on that part.

Hi. Mark, must have missed this post.   

First, what do you mean by "pasted" just wanted to know.

Second, Judas killed himself preventing any salvation. For after death there is no salvation until maybe the White Throne Judgment.

Caiaphas on the other hand did not change and did not lead His people to Jesus. I doubt very seriously if He was saved.

Pontius Pilate did suspect or Know that Jesus was the true Messiah of Israel. He wrote in three languages on the Name plate of Jesus at the cross, Jesus the Nazarine, King of the Jews. He also according to scripture does not appear to be surprised that Jesus would not and was not there after three days. I believe He will be one in Heaven, I will get Pontius Pilate to see.

 Blade



Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Bladerunner on August 13, 2020, 08:48:33 am
Matbe I am missing something, but I am really not concerned on who in the Bible or history that is saved and God will chose.  Beyond me and my family and friends like I have here, I worry about them and give guidance when asked.  If they are pasted, nothing I can do to change there status. 

However, it is a great topic for discussion.   Do you really feel Judas is beyond saving, how about Caiaphas?  I mean there was no Christian religion at the time, so not sure how both of them can be condemed when they both had to play there parts for Christ to die for usand save us from sin.

Just courious on that part.


My understanding has always been that WE are passed over from judgement into life, we are saved, already part of the new creation. Everyone else will be judged.


.... but in the last judgement we see sheeps as well as goats. And this judgement takes place AFTER the 1,000 years reign, AFTER the rapture. We will have reigned with Christ in heaven and the Jews will have reigned with Him on earth.

Billy..  who is the WE that have been passed over....Your sins will be accounted for and judged unless you accept Jesus Christ as you Lord and Savior.

The White Throne Judgment is the last judgment. The Sheep and Goats are those people in those nations that befriended Israel or NOT! It takes place prior to the Millennium. Those Sheep will the the gentile nations that will live through the millennium. The goats will have been killed and thrown into Hell...to await another 1,000 years for judgment.

Your having a problem getting things in order where before you had no problems in this area. Are you OK!

Blade
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Chaplain Mark Schmidt on August 14, 2020, 01:13:04 am
I meant passed, as in passed away, note paste.  Sorry failed to proof read.
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Billy Evmur on August 14, 2020, 04:32:10 am
Matbe I am missing something, but I am really not concerned on who in the Bible or history that is saved and God will chose.  Beyond me and my family and friends like I have here, I worry about them and give guidance when asked.  If they are pasted, nothing I can do to change there status. 

However, it is a great topic for discussion.   Do you really feel Judas is beyond saving, how about Caiaphas?  I mean there was no Christian religion at the time, so not sure how both of them can be condemed when they both had to play there parts for Christ to die for usand save us from sin.

Just courious on that part.


My understanding has always been that WE are passed over from judgement into life, we are saved, already part of the new creation. Everyone else will be judged.


.... but in the last judgement we see sheeps as well as goats. And this judgement takes place AFTER the 1,000 years reign, AFTER the rapture. We will have reigned with Christ in heaven and the Jews will have reigned with Him on earth.

Billy..  who is the WE that have been passed over....Your sins will be accounted for and judged unless you accept Jesus Christ as you Lord and Savior.

The White Throne Judgment is the last judgment. The Sheep and Goats are those people in those nations that befriended Israel or NOT! It takes place prior to the Millennium. Those Sheep will the the gentile nations that will live through the millennium. The goats will have been killed and thrown into Hell...to await another 1,000 years for judgment.

Your having a problem getting things in order where before you had no problems in this area. Are you OK!

Blade
Hi Blade, I'm OK, a cooler cat than yesterday thankfully the temperature has dropped.


I've been saved for more than 40 years Blade. I will be judged as to works but my eternal home is heaven.


Your order of events is skew whiff, the GWT judgement is the final judgement after every single person to have ever lived will be raised. The sheep are awarded an inheritance, the goats eternal punishment.


... cannot possibly happen before the Mill ... no way possible.



Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Bladerunner on August 14, 2020, 09:07:06 am
Matbe I am missing something, but I am really not concerned on who in the Bible or history that is saved and God will chose.  Beyond me and my family and friends like I have here, I worry about them and give guidance when asked.  If they are pasted, nothing I can do to change there status. 

However, it is a great topic for discussion.   Do you really feel Judas is beyond saving, how about Caiaphas?  I mean there was no Christian religion at the time, so not sure how both of them can be condemed when they both had to play there parts for Christ to die for usand save us from sin.

Just courious on that part.


My understanding has always been that WE are passed over from judgement into life, we are saved, already part of the new creation. Everyone else will be judged.


.... but in the last judgement we see sheeps as well as goats. And this judgement takes place AFTER the 1,000 years reign, AFTER the rapture. We will have reigned with Christ in heaven and the Jews will have reigned with Him on earth.

Billy..  who is the WE that have been passed over....Your sins will be accounted for and judged unless you accept Jesus Christ as you Lord and Savior.

The White Throne Judgment is the last judgment. The Sheep and Goats are those people in those nations that befriended Israel or NOT! It takes place prior to the Millennium. Those Sheep will the the gentile nations that will live through the millennium. The goats will have been killed and thrown into Hell...to await another 1,000 years for judgment.

Your having a problem getting things in order where before you had no problems in this area. Are you OK!

Blade
Hi Blade, I'm OK, a cooler cat than yesterday thankfully the temperature has dropped.


I've been saved for more than 40 years Blade. I will be judged as to works but my eternal home is heaven.


Your order of events is skew whiff, the GWT judgement is the final judgement after every single person to have ever lived will be raised. The sheep are awarded an inheritance, the goats eternal punishment.


... cannot possibly happen before the Mill ... no way possible.

don't know where you are getting your Eschatology but your timelines are all wrong and this puts your salvation in jeopardy.

Blade
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Billy Evmur on August 15, 2020, 03:58:15 am
Matbe I am missing something, but I am really not concerned on who in the Bible or history that is saved and God will chose.  Beyond me and my family and friends like I have here, I worry about them and give guidance when asked.  If they are pasted, nothing I can do to change there status. 

However, it is a great topic for discussion.   Do you really feel Judas is beyond saving, how about Caiaphas?  I mean there was no Christian religion at the time, so not sure how both of them can be condemed when they both had to play there parts for Christ to die for usand save us from sin.

Just courious on that part.


My understanding has always been that WE are passed over from judgement into life, we are saved, already part of the new creation. Everyone else will be judged.


.... but in the last judgement we see sheeps as well as goats. And this judgement takes place AFTER the 1,000 years reign, AFTER the rapture. We will have reigned with Christ in heaven and the Jews will have reigned with Him on earth.

Billy..  who is the WE that have been passed over....Your sins will be accounted for and judged unless you accept Jesus Christ as you Lord and Savior.

The White Throne Judgment is the last judgment. The Sheep and Goats are those people in those nations that befriended Israel or NOT! It takes place prior to the Millennium. Those Sheep will the the gentile nations that will live through the millennium. The goats will have been killed and thrown into Hell...to await another 1,000 years for judgment.

Your having a problem getting things in order where before you had no problems in this area. Are you OK!

Blade
Hi Blade, I'm OK, a cooler cat than yesterday thankfully the temperature has dropped.


I've been saved for more than 40 years Blade. I will be judged as to works but my eternal home is heaven.


Your order of events is skew whiff, the GWT judgement is the final judgement after every single person to have ever lived will be raised. The sheep are awarded an inheritance, the goats eternal punishment.


... cannot possibly happen before the Mill ... no way possible.

don't know where you are getting your Eschatology but your timelines are all wrong and this puts your salvation in jeopardy.

Blade


You will read in Revelations 21 that the GWT judgement which is the same as the sheeps and goats follow the resurrection of the quick and dead and is the last judgement.


Somebody's view on eschatological matters does not affect their salvation. What a strange thing for you to believe.


It DOES have a great bearing upon the gospel message we preach.
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Chaplain Mark Schmidt on August 15, 2020, 11:53:57 am
Before I comment and make a statement that causes unnecessary discussions, are you using eschatological as it apply's strictly to an individual or as originally used in theology as it relates to mankind and end times?

For me it makes a difference, but then I am just a strange person on theology I have been told.
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Billy Evmur on August 16, 2020, 11:33:45 am
Before I comment and make a statement that causes unnecessary discussions, are you using eschatological as it apply's strictly to an individual or as originally used in theology as it relates to mankind and end times?

For me it makes a difference, but then I am just a strange person on theology I have been told.


We are speaking about prophecy as it relates to the end-times, Bro Blade seems to have picked up the "left behind" nonsense, which I find surprising considering his doctrinal point of view on other matters.


Nobody gets left behind.
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: patrick jane on August 16, 2020, 12:00:19 pm
Before I comment and make a statement that causes unnecessary discussions, are you using eschatological as it apply's strictly to an individual or as originally used in theology as it relates to mankind and end times?

For me it makes a difference, but then I am just a strange person on theology I have been told.


We are speaking about prophecy as it relates to the end-times, Bro Blade seems to have picked up the "left behind" nonsense, which I find surprising considering his doctrinal point of view on other matters.


Nobody gets left behind.
I get nightmares that I'm the only one left behind to fight the demons.  ;D
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Chaplain Mark Schmidt on August 16, 2020, 12:08:14 pm
That's a good one PJ.  While mine is similar being the last one left to fight demons, it wasn't caused left behind, but in mine, I overslept.   ;D ;D
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Billy Evmur on August 16, 2020, 05:17:37 pm
Thats a good on PJ.  While mine is similar being last one left to fight demons, it wasn't caused left behind, but in mine I over slept.   ;D ;D


By the way I'm not making fun of Bro. Blade.


But this took me right back to when I worked as a railman for London underground, I've never been very good at getting up in the morning and sometimes we had to start at 4.00 am.


I was ALWAYS late late late.


My station master was real old fashioned cockney, one morning I arrived late as ever, hat and uniform askew, totally puffed. He began talking quietly in my ear "I 'ope for your sake that when the Good Lawd does return [shouting "'E don't come back in the mawning cos if 'E does YOU'LL BLINKING WELL MISS 'IM"
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Bladerunner on August 16, 2020, 11:07:01 pm
Thats a good on PJ.  While mine is similar being last one left to fight demons, it wasn't caused left behind, but in mine I over slept.   ;D ;D


By the way I'm not making fun of Bro. Blade.


But this took me right back to when I worked as a railman for London underground, I've never been very good at getting up in the morning and sometimes we had to start at 4.00 am.


I was ALWAYS late late late.


My station master was real old fashioned cockney, one morning I arrived late as ever, hat and uniform askew, totally puffed. He began talking quietly in my ear "I 'ope for your sake that when the Good Lawd does return [shouting "'E don't come back in the mawning cos if 'E does YOU'LL BLINKING WELL MISS 'IM"


very cute Billy....lol

Lets look at it like this....Lets say I am right.......What is your Plan B?

For if I am wrong, Jesus is going to beat up and kill His Bride before taking her out to dinner...I can really take comfort in that......(1 Thes 4:13-18)

For if I am wrong, then I have no doubt I will die with HIS name on my lips, for I will not live through Daniel's 70th week.

I know you are looking forward to those days Billy where 1/4 of the earth will die from the Seal Judgements or do you deny those days also..

The charismatic teachings of the ROC, 9 out of 10 denominations and non-denominationals, will not get  to Heaven...There is a narrow road where only a few will make it..

Blade

Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: patrick jane on August 16, 2020, 11:13:04 pm
Thats a good on PJ.  While mine is similar being last one left to fight demons, it wasn't caused left behind, but in mine I over slept.   ;D ;D


By the way I'm not making fun of Bro. Blade.


But this took me right back to when I worked as a railman for London underground, I've never been very good at getting up in the morning and sometimes we had to start at 4.00 am.


I was ALWAYS late late late.


My station master was real old fashioned cockney, one morning I arrived late as ever, hat and uniform askew, totally puffed. He began talking quietly in my ear "I 'ope for your sake that when the Good Lawd does return [shouting "'E don't come back in the mawning cos if 'E does YOU'LL BLINKING WELL MISS 'IM"


very cute Billy....lol

Lets look at it like this....Lets say I am right.......What is your Plan B?

For if I am wrong, Jesus is going to beat up and kill His Bride before taking her out to dinner...I can really take comfort in that......(1 Thes 4:13-18)

For if I am wrong, then I have no doubt I will die with HIS name on my lips, for I will not live through Daniel's 70th week.

I know you are looking forward to those days Billy where 1/4 of the earth will die from the Seal Judgements or do you deny those days also..

The charismatic teachings of the ROC, 9 out of 10 denominations and non-denominationals, will not get  to Heaven...There is a narrow road where only a few will make it..

Blade
Good post Blade.
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Chaplain Mark Schmidt on August 16, 2020, 11:45:12 pm
I fr5eely admit I am torn on this and it caused me consternation in seminary.  There were clear divisions of everyone gets in and no one but a select few get the golden ticket so to speak.  I actually could see both sides in the argument be valid as they could support them with scriptures and past great theologian's writings.    But doesn't it really come down to what type of God you think God is?  Is he the fire and brimstone one of the old testament or the benevolent one of the new testament and most of the modern-day writers.   My reading lead me to believe that it is some wear in between.  I think when end days happen everyone has the chance, but only a few will do what is needed in the end. 

But again, that's just my humble opinion.
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Billy Evmur on August 17, 2020, 05:27:37 pm
Thats a good on PJ.  While mine is similar being last one left to fight demons, it wasn't caused left behind, but in mine I over slept.   ;D ;D


By the way I'm not making fun of Bro. Blade.


But this took me right back to when I worked as a railman for London underground, I've never been very good at getting up in the morning and sometimes we had to start at 4.00 am.


I was ALWAYS late late late.


My station master was real old fashioned cockney, one morning I arrived late as ever, hat and uniform askew, totally puffed. He began talking quietly in my ear "I 'ope for your sake that when the Good Lawd does return [shouting "'E don't come back in the mawning cos if 'E does YOU'LL BLINKING WELL MISS 'IM"


very cute Billy....lol

Lets look at it like this....Lets say I am right.......What is your Plan B?

For if I am wrong, Jesus is going to beat up and kill His Bride before taking her out to dinner...I can really take comfort in that......(1 Thes 4:13-18)

For if I am wrong, then I have no doubt I will die with HIS name on my lips, for I will not live through Daniel's 70th week.

I know you are looking forward to those days Billy where 1/4 of the earth will die from the Seal Judgements or do you deny those days also..

The charismatic teachings of the ROC, 9 out of 10 denominations and non-denominationals, will not get  to Heaven...There is a narrow road where only a few will make it..

Blade
Good post Blade.


it's nonsense
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Billy Evmur on August 17, 2020, 05:46:41 pm
Thats a good on PJ.  While mine is similar being last one left to fight demons, it wasn't caused left behind, but in mine I over slept.   ;D ;D


By the way I'm not making fun of Bro. Blade.


But this took me right back to when I worked as a railman for London underground, I've never been very good at getting up in the morning and sometimes we had to start at 4.00 am.


I was ALWAYS late late late.


My station master was real old fashioned cockney, one morning I arrived late as ever, hat and uniform askew, totally puffed. He began talking quietly in my ear "I 'ope for your sake that when the Good Lawd does return [shouting "'E don't come back in the mawning cos if 'E does YOU'LL BLINKING WELL MISS 'IM"


very cute Billy....lol

Lets look at it like this....Lets say I am right.......What is your Plan B?

For if I am wrong, Jesus is going to beat up and kill His Bride before taking her out to dinner...I can really take comfort in that......(1 Thes 4:13-18)

For if I am wrong, then I have no doubt I will die with HIS name on my lips, for I will not live through Daniel's 70th week.

I know you are looking forward to those days Billy where 1/4 of the earth will die from the Seal Judgements or do you deny those days also..

The charismatic teachings of the ROC, 9 out of 10 denominations and non-denominationals, will not get  to Heaven...There is a narrow road where only a few will make it..

Blade


So mixed up.


You can't distinguish between tribulation which we are told we must go through and God's wrath from which we are taken away.


Many times I have shown you that Jesus said "AFTER the tribulation of those days ... they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory and He will send forth His angels to gather the elect from the four corners of heaven"


Tribulation is the persecution Jesus warned us to expect. And I believe the church itself is the narrow way, the only distinction to be made is the new birth. There will be Catholics there in heaven if they have been born again.


Jesus said MANY shall come. He said His Father's house will be packed.


John SAW the church [which incidentally had come out of the great tribulation] and it was a multitude which no man could number.


The idea that just a few shrivelled souls will ever make it is nonsense ... and besides all this there are those who will inherit the earth.


The devil will not have billions and billions of human souls. He took a third of the angels and my guess is he will take a third of mankind.
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Bladerunner on August 17, 2020, 10:25:59 pm
Thats a good on PJ.  While mine is similar being last one left to fight demons, it wasn't caused left behind, but in mine I over slept.   ;D ;D


By the way I'm not making fun of Bro. Blade.


But this took me right back to when I worked as a railman for London underground, I've never been very good at getting up in the morning and sometimes we had to start at 4.00 am.


I was ALWAYS late late late.


My station master was real old fashioned cockney, one morning I arrived late as ever, hat and uniform askew, totally puffed. He began talking quietly in my ear "I 'ope for your sake that when the Good Lawd does return [shouting "'E don't come back in the mawning cos if 'E does YOU'LL BLINKING WELL MISS 'IM"


very cute Billy....lol

Lets look at it like this....Lets say I am right.......What is your Plan B?

For if I am wrong, Jesus is going to beat up and kill His Bride before taking her out to dinner...I can really take comfort in that......(1 Thes 4:13-18)

For if I am wrong, then I have no doubt I will die with HIS name on my lips, for I will not live through Daniel's 70th week.

I know you are looking forward to those days Billy where 1/4 of the earth will die from the Seal Judgements or do you deny those days also..

The charismatic teachings of the ROC, 9 out of 10 denominations and non-denominationals, will not get  to Heaven...There is a narrow road where only a few will make it..

Blade


So mixed up.


You can't distinguish between tribulation which we are told we must go through and God's wrath from which we are taken away.


Many times I have shown you that Jesus said "AFTER the tribulation of those days ... they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory and He will send forth His angels to gather the elect from the four corners of heaven"


Tribulation is the persecution Jesus warned us to expect. And I believe the church itself is the narrow way, the only distinction to be made is the new birth. There will be Catholics there in heaven if they have been born again.


Jesus said MANY shall come. He said His Father's house will be packed.


John SAW the church [which incidentally had come out of the great tribulation] and it was a multitude which no man could number.


The idea that just a few shrivelled souls will ever make it is nonsense ... and besides all this there are those who will inherit the earth.


The devil will not have billions and billions of human souls. He took a third of the angels and my guess is he will take a third of mankind.

what about the 1/4 of mankind in the seals
then 1/3 of mankind in the trumpets
and
everything in the seas, and an undisclosed number of humans in the bowl judgements

How do you understand this...Dismiss it.....After al it is GOD's WORDs

Blade
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Billy Evmur on August 18, 2020, 03:39:17 am
Thats a good on PJ.  While mine is similar being last one left to fight demons, it wasn't caused left behind, but in mine I over slept.   ;D ;D


By the way I'm not making fun of Bro. Blade.


But this took me right back to when I worked as a railman for London underground, I've never been very good at getting up in the morning and sometimes we had to start at 4.00 am.


I was ALWAYS late late late.


My station master was real old fashioned cockney, one morning I arrived late as ever, hat and uniform askew, totally puffed. He began talking quietly in my ear "I 'ope for your sake that when the Good Lawd does return [shouting "'E don't come back in the mawning cos if 'E does YOU'LL BLINKING WELL MISS 'IM"


very cute Billy....lol

Lets look at it like this....Lets say I am right.......What is your Plan B?

For if I am wrong, Jesus is going to beat up and kill His Bride before taking her out to dinner...I can really take comfort in that......(1 Thes 4:13-18)

For if I am wrong, then I have no doubt I will die with HIS name on my lips, for I will not live through Daniel's 70th week.

I know you are looking forward to those days Billy where 1/4 of the earth will die from the Seal Judgements or do you deny those days also..

The charismatic teachings of the ROC, 9 out of 10 denominations and non-denominationals, will not get  to Heaven...There is a narrow road where only a few will make it..

Blade


So mixed up.


You can't distinguish between tribulation which we are told we must go through and God's wrath from which we are taken away.


Many times I have shown you that Jesus said "AFTER the tribulation of those days ... they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory and He will send forth His angels to gather the elect from the four corners of heaven"


Tribulation is the persecution Jesus warned us to expect. And I believe the church itself is the narrow way, the only distinction to be made is the new birth. There will be Catholics there in heaven if they have been born again.


Jesus said MANY shall come. He said His Father's house will be packed.


John SAW the church [which incidentally had come out of the great tribulation] and it was a multitude which no man could number.


The idea that just a few shrivelled souls will ever make it is nonsense ... and besides all this there are those who will inherit the earth.


The devil will not have billions and billions of human souls. He took a third of the angels and my guess is he will take a third of mankind.

what about the 1/4 of mankind in the seals
then 1/3 of mankind in the trumpets
and
everything in the seas, and an undisclosed number of humans in the bowl judgements

How do you understand this...Dismiss it.....After al it is GOD's WORDs

Blade


It's not for the church is it. It's not tribulation, it is AFTER the church is gone, it is God's wrath being poured out.


God's wrath begins with Antichrist and those who come up against Israel.


Then the kingdom is established and set up in Jerusalem and rolled out from Israel


YOU said it, you said it yourself. Always you see God's wrath is poured out upon a third. A third of mankind who refuse to repent, who will not submit. WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER TWO THIRDS?


Christians are so-oo gloomy, their noses are rubbed into the dark threatenings and damnation aspect of what God does.


But the purpose of the 1,000 years is that the rest of mankind can come in through the Jews. God is SAVIOUR. His will is to SAVE people.


The 1, 000 years is when Nations will beat their swords into ploughshares and their spears into pruning hooks and nations will study war no more. PEACE and PROSPERITY will attend Jesu's righteous reign.


And nations will flock to Jerusalem to the house of the God of Jacob to learn His ways. Glory to God.
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Bladerunner on August 18, 2020, 09:20:07 am
Thats a good on PJ.  While mine is similar being last one left to fight demons, it wasn't caused left behind, but in mine I over slept.   ;D ;D


By the way I'm not making fun of Bro. Blade.


But this took me right back to when I worked as a railman for London underground, I've never been very good at getting up in the morning and sometimes we had to start at 4.00 am.


I was ALWAYS late late late.


My station master was real old fashioned cockney, one morning I arrived late as ever, hat and uniform askew, totally puffed. He began talking quietly in my ear "I 'ope for your sake that when the Good Lawd does return [shouting "'E don't come back in the mawning cos if 'E does YOU'LL BLINKING WELL MISS 'IM"


very cute Billy....lol

Lets look at it like this....Lets say I am right.......What is your Plan B?

For if I am wrong, Jesus is going to beat up and kill His Bride before taking her out to dinner...I can really take comfort in that......(1 Thes 4:13-18)

For if I am wrong, then I have no doubt I will die with HIS name on my lips, for I will not live through Daniel's 70th week.

I know you are looking forward to those days Billy where 1/4 of the earth will die from the Seal Judgements or do you deny those days also..

The charismatic teachings of the ROC, 9 out of 10 denominations and non-denominationals, will not get  to Heaven...There is a narrow road where only a few will make it..

Blade


So mixed up.


You can't distinguish between tribulation which we are told we must go through and God's wrath from which we are taken away.


Many times I have shown you that Jesus said "AFTER the tribulation of those days ... they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory and He will send forth His angels to gather the elect from the four corners of heaven"


Tribulation is the persecution Jesus warned us to expect. And I believe the church itself is the narrow way, the only distinction to be made is the new birth. There will be Catholics there in heaven if they have been born again.


Jesus said MANY shall come. He said His Father's house will be packed.


John SAW the church [which incidentally had come out of the great tribulation] and it was a multitude which no man could number.


The idea that just a few shrivelled souls will ever make it is nonsense ... and besides all this there are those who will inherit the earth.


The devil will not have billions and billions of human souls. He took a third of the angels and my guess is he will take a third of mankind.

what about the 1/4 of mankind in the seals
then 1/3 of mankind in the trumpets
and
everything in the seas, and an undisclosed number of humans in the bowl judgements

How do you understand this...Dismiss it.....After al it is GOD's WORDs

Blade


It's not for the church is it. It's not tribulation, it is AFTER the church is gone, it is God's wrath being poured out.


God's wrath begins with Antichrist and those who come up against Israel.


Then the kingdom is established and set up in Jerusalem and rolled out from Israel


YOU said it, you said it yourself. Always you see God's wrath is poured out upon a third. A third of mankind who refuse to repent, who will not submit. WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER TWO THIRDS?


Christians are so-oo gloomy, their noses are rubbed into the dark threatenings and damnation aspect of what God does.


But the purpose of the 1,000 years is that the rest of mankind can come in through the Jews. God is SAVIOUR. His will is to SAVE people.


The 1, 000 years is when Nations will beat their swords into ploughshares and their spears into pruning hooks and nations will study war no more. PEACE and PROSPERITY will attend Jesu's righteous reign.


And nations will flock to Jerusalem to the house of the God of Jacob to learn His ways. Glory to God.

Don't know where your getting your figures Billy but they are not Biblical..

Here are a few...

Mankind during Daniel's 70th week: Mankind = Jew and Gentile

Because of the Seal Judgments, 1/4 of mankind will die.

Because of the Trumpet Judgment , another 1/3 of the remaining population of Mankind will die.

This represents over Half of the earth's population will die during the first two judgments.

Because of the Bowl (vial) judgments, all of the sea creatures will die and an unspecified number of remaining humans will die.

Sheep and Goat Judgment will pruge all the surviving nations of those people who were/are anti-Sematic. The Goats will be cast into the Lake of Fire, being their final Judgment.  Only those judged as Sheep will be permitted into the Millennium. A remnant of Mankind.


During Daniel's 70th week, 2/3 (66%) of the Jews on earth will die. Only the remaining 1/3 (remnant of Israel) will live through the Millennium.

I am teaching darkness as that is what is coming..much of its beginning is here now. Those who do not see the darkness coming will most likely have to live through it after the restrainer (His Church) has gone.

Blade
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Billy Evmur on August 18, 2020, 09:14:19 pm
Thats a good on PJ.  While mine is similar being last one left to fight demons, it wasn't caused left behind, but in mine I over slept.   ;D ;D


By the way I'm not making fun of Bro. Blade.


But this took me right back to when I worked as a railman for London underground, I've never been very good at getting up in the morning and sometimes we had to start at 4.00 am.


I was ALWAYS late late late.


My station master was real old fashioned cockney, one morning I arrived late as ever, hat and uniform askew, totally puffed. He began talking quietly in my ear "I 'ope for your sake that when the Good Lawd does return [shouting "'E don't come back in the mawning cos if 'E does YOU'LL BLINKING WELL MISS 'IM"


very cute Billy....lol

Lets look at it like this....Lets say I am right.......What is your Plan B?

For if I am wrong, Jesus is going to beat up and kill His Bride before taking her out to dinner...I can really take comfort in that......(1 Thes 4:13-18)

For if I am wrong, then I have no doubt I will die with HIS name on my lips, for I will not live through Daniel's 70th week.

I know you are looking forward to those days Billy where 1/4 of the earth will die from the Seal Judgements or do you deny those days also..

The charismatic teachings of the ROC, 9 out of 10 denominations and non-denominationals, will not get  to Heaven...There is a narrow road where only a few will make it..

Blade


So mixed up.


You can't distinguish between tribulation which we are told we must go through and God's wrath from which we are taken away.


Many times I have shown you that Jesus said "AFTER the tribulation of those days ... they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory and He will send forth His angels to gather the elect from the four corners of heaven"


Tribulation is the persecution Jesus warned us to expect. And I believe the church itself is the narrow way, the only distinction to be made is the new birth. There will be Catholics there in heaven if they have been born again.


Jesus said MANY shall come. He said His Father's house will be packed.


John SAW the church [which incidentally had come out of the great tribulation] and it was a multitude which no man could number.


The idea that just a few shrivelled souls will ever make it is nonsense ... and besides all this there are those who will inherit the earth.


The devil will not have billions and billions of human souls. He took a third of the angels and my guess is he will take a third of mankind.

what about the 1/4 of mankind in the seals
then 1/3 of mankind in the trumpets
and
everything in the seas, and an undisclosed number of humans in the bowl judgements

How do you understand this...Dismiss it.....After al it is GOD's WORDs

Blade


It's not for the church is it. It's not tribulation, it is AFTER the church is gone, it is God's wrath being poured out.


God's wrath begins with Antichrist and those who come up against Israel.


Then the kingdom is established and set up in Jerusalem and rolled out from Israel


YOU said it, you said it yourself. Always you see God's wrath is poured out upon a third. A third of mankind who refuse to repent, who will not submit. WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER TWO THIRDS?


Christians are so-oo gloomy, their noses are rubbed into the dark threatenings and damnation aspect of what God does.


But the purpose of the 1,000 years is that the rest of mankind can come in through the Jews. God is SAVIOUR. His will is to SAVE people.


The 1, 000 years is when Nations will beat their swords into ploughshares and their spears into pruning hooks and nations will study war no more. PEACE and PROSPERITY will attend Jesu's righteous reign.


And nations will flock to Jerusalem to the house of the God of Jacob to learn His ways. Glory to God.

Don't know where your getting your figures Billy but they are not Biblical..

Here are a few...

Mankind during Daniel's 70th week: Mankind = Jew and Gentile

Because of the Seal Judgments, 1/4 of mankind will die.

Because of the Trumpet Judgment , another 1/3 of the remaining population of Mankind will die.

This represents over Half of the earth's population will die during the first two judgments.

Because of the Bowl (vial) judgments, all of the sea creatures will die and an unspecified number of remaining humans will die.

Sheep and Goat Judgment will pruge all the surviving nations of those people who were/are anti-Sematic. The Goats will be cast into the Lake of Fire, being their final Judgment.  Only those judged as Sheep will be permitted into the Millennium. A remnant of Mankind.


During Daniel's 70th week, 2/3 (66%) of the Jews on earth will die. Only the remaining 1/3 (remnant of Israel) will live through the Millennium.

I am teaching darkness as that is what is coming..much of its beginning is here now. Those who do not see the darkness coming will most likely have to live through it after the restrainer (His Church) has gone.

Blade


There are NO seals, NO trumpets, NO bowls of wrath in Daniel's 70th week YOU have transposed them there from Revelations.


We take the week to be 7 years, during that 7 years there will be a pact between Antichrist and the Jews which pact he will break after 3 .1/2 years.


All these events happen before the rapture so the church is still here up until the time when Antichrist breaks his pact and invades Jerusalem and the temple.


The seals and the trumpets and the bowls represents God's wrath being poured out AFTER the church is gone. God cannot pour His wrath out while the church is here. That would violate everything we know about God.


The church is raptured to take us away from the seals. the trumpets and the bowls. But the JEWS ALSO are gathered, to their own land they are gathered for the very same reason, to protect them from the seals, the trumpets and the bowls.


But while God is doing all that He is also setting up His kingdom in Israel. The Millennium will begin. There will be reward for those who submit to the reign of Christ with His saints but instant punishment for those who rebel. 
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Bladerunner on August 19, 2020, 09:10:18 am
Thats a good on PJ.  While mine is similar being last one left to fight demons, it wasn't caused left behind, but in mine I over slept.   ;D ;D


By the way I'm not making fun of Bro. Blade.


But this took me right back to when I worked as a railman for London underground, I've never been very good at getting up in the morning and sometimes we had to start at 4.00 am.


I was ALWAYS late late late.


My station master was real old fashioned cockney, one morning I arrived late as ever, hat and uniform askew, totally puffed. He began talking quietly in my ear "I 'ope for your sake that when the Good Lawd does return [shouting "'E don't come back in the mawning cos if 'E does YOU'LL BLINKING WELL MISS 'IM"


very cute Billy....lol

Lets look at it like this....Lets say I am right.......What is your Plan B?

For if I am wrong, Jesus is going to beat up and kill His Bride before taking her out to dinner...I can really take comfort in that......(1 Thes 4:13-18)

For if I am wrong, then I have no doubt I will die with HIS name on my lips, for I will not live through Daniel's 70th week.

I know you are looking forward to those days Billy where 1/4 of the earth will die from the Seal Judgements or do you deny those days also..

The charismatic teachings of the ROC, 9 out of 10 denominations and non-denominationals, will not get  to Heaven...There is a narrow road where only a few will make it..

Blade


So mixed up.


You can't distinguish between tribulation which we are told we must go through and God's wrath from which we are taken away.


Many times I have shown you that Jesus said "AFTER the tribulation of those days ... they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory and He will send forth His angels to gather the elect from the four corners of heaven"


Tribulation is the persecution Jesus warned us to expect. And I believe the church itself is the narrow way, the only distinction to be made is the new birth. There will be Catholics there in heaven if they have been born again.


Jesus said MANY shall come. He said His Father's house will be packed.


John SAW the church [which incidentally had come out of the great tribulation] and it was a multitude which no man could number.


The idea that just a few shrivelled souls will ever make it is nonsense ... and besides all this there are those who will inherit the earth.


The devil will not have billions and billions of human souls. He took a third of the angels and my guess is he will take a third of mankind.

what about the 1/4 of mankind in the seals
then 1/3 of mankind in the trumpets
and
everything in the seas, and an undisclosed number of humans in the bowl judgements

How do you understand this...Dismiss it.....After al it is GOD's WORDs

Blade


It's not for the church is it. It's not tribulation, it is AFTER the church is gone, it is God's wrath being poured out.


God's wrath begins with Antichrist and those who come up against Israel.


Then the kingdom is established and set up in Jerusalem and rolled out from Israel


YOU said it, you said it yourself. Always you see God's wrath is poured out upon a third. A third of mankind who refuse to repent, who will not submit. WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER TWO THIRDS?


Christians are so-oo gloomy, their noses are rubbed into the dark threatenings and damnation aspect of what God does.


But the purpose of the 1,000 years is that the rest of mankind can come in through the Jews. God is SAVIOUR. His will is to SAVE people.


The 1, 000 years is when Nations will beat their swords into ploughshares and their spears into pruning hooks and nations will study war no more. PEACE and PROSPERITY will attend Jesu's righteous reign.


And nations will flock to Jerusalem to the house of the God of Jacob to learn His ways. Glory to God.

Don't know where your getting your figures Billy but they are not Biblical..

Here are a few...

Mankind during Daniel's 70th week: Mankind = Jew and Gentile

Because of the Seal Judgments, 1/4 of mankind will die.

Because of the Trumpet Judgment , another 1/3 of the remaining population of Mankind will die.

This represents over Half of the earth's population will die during the first two judgments.

Because of the Bowl (vial) judgments, all of the sea creatures will die and an unspecified number of remaining humans will die.

Sheep and Goat Judgment will pruge all the surviving nations of those people who were/are anti-Sematic. The Goats will be cast into the Lake of Fire, being their final Judgment.  Only those judged as Sheep will be permitted into the Millennium. A remnant of Mankind.


During Daniel's 70th week, 2/3 (66%) of the Jews on earth will die. Only the remaining 1/3 (remnant of Israel) will live through the Millennium.

I am teaching darkness as that is what is coming..much of its beginning is here now. Those who do not see the darkness coming will most likely have to live through it after the restrainer (His Church) has gone.

Blade


There are NO seals, NO trumpets, NO bowls of wrath in Daniel's 70th week YOU have transposed them there from Revelations.


We take the week to be 7 years, during that 7 years there will be a pact between Antichrist and the Jews which pact he will break after 3 .1/2 years.


All these events happen before the rapture so the church is still here up until the time when Antichrist breaks his pact and invades Jerusalem and the temple.


The seals and the trumpets and the bowls represents God's wrath being poured out AFTER the church is gone. God cannot pour His wrath out while the church is here. That would violate everything we know about God.


The church is raptured to take us away from the seals. the trumpets and the bowls. But the JEWS ALSO are gathered, to their own land they are gathered for the very same reason, to protect them from the seals, the trumpets and the bowls.


But while God is doing all that He is also setting up His kingdom in Israel. The Millennium will begin. There will be reward for those who submit to the reign of Christ with His saints but instant punishment for those who rebel.

you said:"There are NO seals, NO trumpets, NO bowls of wrath in Daniel's 70th week YOU have transposed them there from Revelations."

It seems Billy you have strayed away from the word of GOD to the point that you are in reality calling Him a Liar. His Words in Revelation are not symbolic but real and Your denial of them do not make them any less real.

This is the way of the Charismatic preaching of 9 out of 10 churches especially in the UK and Europe.  So Sad!

Blade

Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Billy Evmur on August 20, 2020, 03:28:00 am
Thats a good on PJ.  While mine is similar being last one left to fight demons, it wasn't caused left behind, but in mine I over slept.   ;D ;D


By the way I'm not making fun of Bro. Blade.


But this took me right back to when I worked as a railman for London underground, I've never been very good at getting up in the morning and sometimes we had to start at 4.00 am.


I was ALWAYS late late late.


My station master was real old fashioned cockney, one morning I arrived late as ever, hat and uniform askew, totally puffed. He began talking quietly in my ear "I 'ope for your sake that when the Good Lawd does return [shouting "'E don't come back in the mawning cos if 'E does YOU'LL BLINKING WELL MISS 'IM"


very cute Billy....lol

Lets look at it like this....Lets say I am right.......What is your Plan B?

For if I am wrong, Jesus is going to beat up and kill His Bride before taking her out to dinner...I can really take comfort in that......(1 Thes 4:13-18)

For if I am wrong, then I have no doubt I will die with HIS name on my lips, for I will not live through Daniel's 70th week.

I know you are looking forward to those days Billy where 1/4 of the earth will die from the Seal Judgements or do you deny those days also..

The charismatic teachings of the ROC, 9 out of 10 denominations and non-denominationals, will not get  to Heaven...There is a narrow road where only a few will make it..

Blade


So mixed up.


You can't distinguish between tribulation which we are told we must go through and God's wrath from which we are taken away.


Many times I have shown you that Jesus said "AFTER the tribulation of those days ... they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory and He will send forth His angels to gather the elect from the four corners of heaven"


Tribulation is the persecution Jesus warned us to expect. And I believe the church itself is the narrow way, the only distinction to be made is the new birth. There will be Catholics there in heaven if they have been born again.


Jesus said MANY shall come. He said His Father's house will be packed.


John SAW the church [which incidentally had come out of the great tribulation] and it was a multitude which no man could number.


The idea that just a few shrivelled souls will ever make it is nonsense ... and besides all this there are those who will inherit the earth.


The devil will not have billions and billions of human souls. He took a third of the angels and my guess is he will take a third of mankind.

what about the 1/4 of mankind in the seals
then 1/3 of mankind in the trumpets
and
everything in the seas, and an undisclosed number of humans in the bowl judgements

How do you understand this...Dismiss it.....After al it is GOD's WORDs

Blade


It's not for the church is it. It's not tribulation, it is AFTER the church is gone, it is God's wrath being poured out.


God's wrath begins with Antichrist and those who come up against Israel.


Then the kingdom is established and set up in Jerusalem and rolled out from Israel


YOU said it, you said it yourself. Always you see God's wrath is poured out upon a third. A third of mankind who refuse to repent, who will not submit. WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER TWO THIRDS?


Christians are so-oo gloomy, their noses are rubbed into the dark threatenings and damnation aspect of what God does.


But the purpose of the 1,000 years is that the rest of mankind can come in through the Jews. God is SAVIOUR. His will is to SAVE people.


The 1, 000 years is when Nations will beat their swords into ploughshares and their spears into pruning hooks and nations will study war no more. PEACE and PROSPERITY will attend Jesu's righteous reign.


And nations will flock to Jerusalem to the house of the God of Jacob to learn His ways. Glory to God.

Don't know where your getting your figures Billy but they are not Biblical..

Here are a few...

Mankind during Daniel's 70th week: Mankind = Jew and Gentile

Because of the Seal Judgments, 1/4 of mankind will die.

Because of the Trumpet Judgment , another 1/3 of the remaining population of Mankind will die.

This represents over Half of the earth's population will die during the first two judgments.

Because of the Bowl (vial) judgments, all of the sea creatures will die and an unspecified number of remaining humans will die.

Sheep and Goat Judgment will pruge all the surviving nations of those people who were/are anti-Sematic. The Goats will be cast into the Lake of Fire, being their final Judgment.  Only those judged as Sheep will be permitted into the Millennium. A remnant of Mankind.


During Daniel's 70th week, 2/3 (66%) of the Jews on earth will die. Only the remaining 1/3 (remnant of Israel) will live through the Millennium.

I am teaching darkness as that is what is coming..much of its beginning is here now. Those who do not see the darkness coming will most likely have to live through it after the restrainer (His Church) has gone.

Blade


There are NO seals, NO trumpets, NO bowls of wrath in Daniel's 70th week YOU have transposed them there from Revelations.


We take the week to be 7 years, during that 7 years there will be a pact between Antichrist and the Jews which pact he will break after 3 .1/2 years.


All these events happen before the rapture so the church is still here up until the time when Antichrist breaks his pact and invades Jerusalem and the temple.


The seals and the trumpets and the bowls represents God's wrath being poured out AFTER the church is gone. God cannot pour His wrath out while the church is here. That would violate everything we know about God.


The church is raptured to take us away from the seals. the trumpets and the bowls. But the JEWS ALSO are gathered, to their own land they are gathered for the very same reason, to protect them from the seals, the trumpets and the bowls.


But while God is doing all that He is also setting up His kingdom in Israel. The Millennium will begin. There will be reward for those who submit to the reign of Christ with His saints but instant punishment for those who rebel.

you said:"There are NO seals, NO trumpets, NO bowls of wrath in Daniel's 70th week YOU have transposed them there from Revelations."

It seems Billy you have strayed away from the word of GOD to the point that you are in reality calling Him a Liar. His Words in Revelation are not symbolic but real and Your denial of them do not make them any less real.

This is the way of the Charismatic preaching of 9 out of 10 churches especially in the UK and Europe.  So Sad!

Blade




There is nothing wrong with the word of God in Revelations it's just that you take them and stick them in any old where. You mix up events and the prophecies that relate to them.


Seals, trumpets and bowls do not belong in Daniel's 70th week.


The seal the trumpets and the bowls of wrath belong to the period of time after the church is gone but the church is still here in in Daniel's 70th week or at least the first half of it.


Your failure is in not differentiating between the Great Tribulation and the Wrath of God which are two different things.


And actually your "left behind" nonsense is from the charismatics, as a Calvinist you ought have nothing to do with such a teaching on the basis that God cannot punish sin twice.


As for my being Pentecostalist I have no choice for the Holy Ghost fell on me as He fell on the saints of old. I would that ye all were Pentecostalist.


Pentecostalism is where it is all happening if anything is happening.
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Billy Evmur on August 20, 2020, 03:44:31 am
Pivot in on this while Antichrist is in the world [he has not yet been revealed] the church is still here. In Daniel's 70th week we see him confirming the covenant with many for one week and breaking it in the midst of the week after 3.1/2 years.


When he invades Israel and desecrates the temple in Jerusalem by sitting in it claiming that he is himself God THEN Christ will return to destroy him.


THEN will the church go to meet the returning Lord in the clouds, THEN will Israel "look upon Him whom they have pierced" and be converted.


THEN will our Lord set up His throne and His kingdom in Jerusalem.


THEN will be seals and trumpets and bowls of wrath poured out upon the unrenting wicked .... the rest of mankind will be saved through the Jews.
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Bladerunner on August 20, 2020, 09:28:56 am
Pivot in on this while Antichrist is in the world [he has not yet been revealed] the church is still here. In Daniel's 70th week we see him confirming the covenant with many for one week and breaking it in the midst of the week after 3.1/2 years.


When he invades Israel and desecrates the temple in Jerusalem by sitting in it claiming that he is himself God THEN Christ will return to destroy him.


THEN will the church go to meet the returning Lord in the clouds, THEN will Israel "look upon Him whom they have pierced" and be converted.


THEN will our Lord set up His throne and His kingdom in Jerusalem.


THEN will be seals and trumpets and bowls of wrath poured out upon the unrenting wicked .... the rest of mankind will be saved through the Jews.

your order is wrong according to the Bible. You have set these three judgements in the time of the millennium....Really?

Blade
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Billy Evmur on August 20, 2020, 07:51:06 pm
Pivot in on this while Antichrist is in the world [he has not yet been revealed] the church is still here. In Daniel's 70th week we see him confirming the covenant with many for one week and breaking it in the midst of the week after 3.1/2 years.


When he invades Israel and desecrates the temple in Jerusalem by sitting in it claiming that he is himself God THEN Christ will return to destroy him.


THEN will the church go to meet the returning Lord in the clouds, THEN will Israel "look upon Him whom they have pierced" and be converted.


THEN will our Lord set up His throne and His kingdom in Jerusalem.


THEN will be seals and trumpets and bowls of wrath poured out upon the unrepenting wicked .... the rest of mankind will be saved through the Jews.

your order is wrong according to the Bible. You have set these three judgements in the time of the millennium....Really?

Blade


The seals, the trumpets and the bowls are God's wrath being poured upon the unrepentant, this cannot happen while the church is here.


It will be in the Millennium that the world will get another chance through the Jews. But those who rebel and refuse to submit to The Lord will meet with immediate death.


The wicked will be driven back to the four corners of the earth ... and there they will be when Satan is loosed once again.
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Chaplain Mark Schmidt on August 20, 2020, 08:25:53 pm
My only thought is on your statement "while the church is here."

In my humble opinion the churches that exist now are all broken.  So the church that was spoken of in the Bible no longer exists in any form.

But that just my feeling based on my reading.
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Bladerunner on August 20, 2020, 11:30:13 pm
My only thought is on your statement "while the church is here."

In my humble opinion the churches that exist now are all broken.  So the church that was spoken of in the Bible no longer exists in any form.

But that just my feeling based on my reading.

I think he is speaking of the Church (body of Christ). It is still here until we are removed. 

Blade
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Chaplain Mark Schmidt on August 20, 2020, 11:43:49 pm
Okay, I can deal with that.  Thanks Blade for clarification.  I will go back to lurking and learning.
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Billy Evmur on August 21, 2020, 09:57:04 am
Okay, I can deal with that.  Thanks Blade for clarification.  I will go back to lurking and learning.

God works and deals with mankind after the manner of covenants and dispensations, any change in His covenant requires a new dispensation, that is to say God's dealings with mankind will change.


Our present dispensation is called the dispensation of GRACE. God has determined to hold back judgement, He has appointed a time when He will judge the living and the dead by Jesus Christ.


Acts of judgement are a rare thing in this time of grace, they are called by theologians "God's peculiar works" events like Ananias and Saphira or Herod who was consumed by worms are rare events. God is giving mankind a chance to repent.


In the parable of the tares and wheat they asked the good man "shall we gather up the tares out of the wheat field?" but he said no lest in plucking up the tares you disturb the wheat, they must grow together until the harvest when God will send the angels to gather tares for burning and the wheat to be stored.


The Millennium is a new age, a new dispensation. We can only guess at the glory of the next age. It will be what we have been preaching all along, an age of righteousness, justice, peace and prosperity for all. These things will no longer be desires and aspirations but reality, the manifestation of the kingdom of heaven on earth.


What we have always prayed for "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven." Paul says that the creation is to be set FREE from it's bondage to decay, the curse of Adam's sin will be lifted from the earth.


But it begins with the rapture and the destruction of Antichrist and all the armies that come up with him to Jerusalem.


The throne and the kingdom will be set up and the kingdom rolled out from there. All resistance will be punished all power and authority and rule will be put under His feet. So you see coming to pass the dual prophecy of blessing and peace and the rod of iron for those who oppose Him.


They will have no excuse for rebelling against Him.


The book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ is just that. It is Christ being revealed from heaven at His coming. The church does not figure much in it after the 4th chapter because we will be gone. The rest of the prophecy relates to the kingdom being rolled out from Jerusalem.   



 more to come
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Bladerunner on August 21, 2020, 11:41:45 pm
Okay, I can deal with that.  Thanks Blade for clarification.  I will go back to lurking and learning.
God works and deals with mankind after the manner of covenants and dispensations, any change in His covenant requires a new dispensation, that is to say God's dealings with mankind will change.

His covenants transverse all dispensations. (i.e. The Rainbow is a covenant to mankind that God would not destroy the earth any more by water). This covenant has gone through How Many  dispensations?? maybe five or more??

Our present dispensation is called the dispensation of GRACE. God has determined to hold back judgement, He has appointed a time when He will judge the living and the dead by Jesus Christ.

Yes, we are in the dispensation of Grace but GOD is not withholding Judgement. In fact, the judgement of Romans 1 which began in the 70 and 80s  reached the third phase around 2018. All His judgements to be (Prophecies) are in His Book and they are being fulfilled to date at 100%. Yes, He has appointed a time when all the remaining Dead (second resurrection) will get judged at the White Throne Judgement.


Acts of judgement are a rare thing in this time of grace, they are called by theologians "God's peculiar works" events like Ananias and Saphira or Herod who was consumed by worms are rare events. God is giving mankind a chance to repent.

Acts of Judgement are not a rare thing...GOD is in Control and has His finger in every disaster, every flood, every tornado, every riot, etc. These are all judgements of Mankind..You reap what you sow...If you do not believe that then ask those people just outside of the city of Portland and Seattle if they agree. These riots will be reaching their neighborhoods in due time. Yes, it is a judgement of God.


In the parable of the tares and wheat they asked the good man "shall we gather up the tares out of the wheat field?" but he said no lest in plucking up the tares you disturb the wheat, they must grow together until the harvest when God will send the angels to gather tares for burning and the wheat to be stored.

Yes, this will be done in Daniel's 70th week. have you not read Revelation 6 through 20..It seems you just ignore all those chapters and throw them out the door.


The Millennium is a new age, a new dispensation. We can only guess at the glory of the next age. It will be what we have been preaching all along, an age of righteousness, justice, peace and prosperity for all. These things will no longer be desires and aspirations but reality, the manifestation of the kingdom of heaven on earth.

The new dispensation will begin when the Harpazo/Rapture happens, the Age of Grace will be over and the age of the "Everlasting Gospel" will begin. It will end in a 1,000 plus years or so.

Yes, that is all the charismatic churches preach..'that GOD will accept everyone' into heaven...????



What we have always prayed for "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven." Paul says that the creation is to be set FREE from it's bondage to decay, the curse of Adam's sin will be lifted from the earth.

I agree here

But it begins with the rapture and the destruction of Antichrist and all the armies that come up with him to Jerusalem.

So you are a post-Trib Rapture fellow..Where are all the judgements..You tell us in a paragraph two of three down that the Church will be gone in Rev 4...That is not post-Trib Rapture theology, that is Pre-Trib Rapture.

The throne and the kingdom will be set up and the kingdom rolled out from there. All resistance will be punished all power and authority and rule will be put under His feet. So you see coming to pass the dual prophecy of blessing and peace and the rod of iron for those who oppose Him.

They will have no excuse for rebelling against Him.

Here you speaking of the Millennium again...Billy you just going all over the place.

The book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ is just that. It is Christ being revealed from heaven at His coming. The church does not figure much in it after the 4th chapter because we will be gone. The rest of the prophecy relates to the kingdom being rolled out from Jerusalem.   

 more to come

"The rest of the prophecy relates to the kingdom being rolled out from Jerusalem. "

Yes, the rest of the prophecy, Daniel's 70th week relates to the Judgments of God killing over 1/2 of the earth population today. 3-4  billion people will die during this time leaving only a remnant of Gentiles to live in the millennium. 2/3 of Jews will die leaving only a 1/3 remnant of Jews to live during the Millennium.

The church of England and all the other Charismatic theology teaching churches is dragging many DOWN with it. They will be counted as the non-believers.

Billy, Judgment prophecies are being fulfilled regularly. Birth Pangs are getting worse each day until.

Blade
 
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Billy Evmur on August 22, 2020, 07:14:37 am
Okay, I can deal with that.  Thanks Blade for clarification.  I will go back to lurking and learning.
God works and deals with mankind after the manner of covenants and dispensations, any change in His covenant requires a new dispensation, that is to say God's dealings with mankind will change.

His covenants transverse all dispensations. (i.e. The Rainbow is a covenant to mankind that God would not destroy the earth any more by water). This covenant has gone through How Many  dispensations?? maybe five or more??

Our present dispensation is called the dispensation of GRACE. God has determined to hold back judgement, He has appointed a time when He will judge the living and the dead by Jesus Christ.

Yes, we are in the dispensation of Grace but GOD is not withholding Judgement. In fact, the judgement of Romans 1 which began in the 70 and 80s  reached the third phase around 2018. All His judgements to be (Prophecies) are in His Book and they are being fulfilled to date at 100%. Yes, He has appointed a time when all the remaining Dead (second resurrection) will get judged at the White Throne Judgement.


Acts of judgement are a rare thing in this time of grace, they are called by theologians "God's peculiar works" events like Ananias and Saphira or Herod who was consumed by worms are rare events. God is giving mankind a chance to repent.

Acts of Judgement are not a rare thing...GOD is in Control and has His finger in every disaster, every flood, every tornado, every riot, etc. These are all judgements of Mankind..You reap what you sow...If you do not believe that then ask those people just outside of the city of Portland and Seattle if they agree. These riots will be reaching their neighborhoods in due time. Yes, it is a judgement of God.


In the parable of the tares and wheat they asked the good man "shall we gather up the tares out of the wheat field?" but he said no lest in plucking up the tares you disturb the wheat, they must grow together until the harvest when God will send the angels to gather tares for burning and the wheat to be stored.

Yes, this will be done in Daniel's 70th week. have you not read Revelation 6 through 20..It seems you just ignore all those chapters and throw them out the door.


The Millennium is a new age, a new dispensation. We can only guess at the glory of the next age. It will be what we have been preaching all along, an age of righteousness, justice, peace and prosperity for all. These things will no longer be desires and aspirations but reality, the manifestation of the kingdom of heaven on earth.

The new dispensation will begin when the Harpazo/Rapture happens, the Age of Grace will be over and the age of the "Everlasting Gospel" will begin. It will end in a 1,000 plus years or so.

Yes, that is all the charismatic churches preach..'that GOD will accept everyone' into heaven... ??? ?



What we have always prayed for "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven." Paul says that the creation is to be set FREE from it's bondage to decay, the curse of Adam's sin will be lifted from the earth.

I agree here

But it begins with the rapture and the destruction of Antichrist and all the armies that come up with him to Jerusalem.

So you are a post-Trib Rapture fellow..Where are all the judgements..You tell us in a paragraph two of three down that the Church will be gone in Rev 4...That is not post-Trib Rapture theology, that is Pre-Trib Rapture.

The throne and the kingdom will be set up and the kingdom rolled out from there. All resistance will be punished all power and authority and rule will be put under His feet. So you see coming to pass the dual prophecy of blessing and peace and the rod of iron for those who oppose Him.

They will have no excuse for rebelling against Him.

Here you speaking of the Millennium again...Billy you just going all over the place.

The book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ is just that. It is Christ being revealed from heaven at His coming. The church does not figure much in it after the 4th chapter because we will be gone. The rest of the prophecy relates to the kingdom being rolled out from Jerusalem.   

 more to come

"The rest of the prophecy relates to the kingdom being rolled out from Jerusalem. "

Yes, the rest of the prophecy, Daniel's 70th week relates to the Judgments of God killing over 1/2 of the earth population today. 3-4  billion people will die during this time leaving only a remnant of Gentiles to live in the millennium. 2/3 of Jews will die leaving only a 1/3 remnant of Jews to live during the Millennium.

The church of England and all the other Charismatic theology teaching churches is dragging many DOWN with it. They will be counted as the non-believers.

Billy, Judgment prophecies are being fulfilled regularly. Birth Pangs are getting worse each day until.

Blade
 
What do I have to do with the church of England? it is YOU who is preaching the charismatic "left behind" doctrine, a bunch of nonsense. A 15 year old girl wrote down what she believed was the Holy Spirit telling her.


I am entirely orthodox, a premillennial, post tribulation rapture. It is what the church has taught down through the centuries.


YOU say before the tribulation of those days, Jesus says after the tribulation of those days
YOU say the church will be removed before Antichrist is revealed, Paul says that day will not come until he has been revealed.


Birth pangs are not the seals, the trumpets or the bowls of wrath. they betoken new life, the new age.


Pentecostalists are not non believers they are believers, they believe the Holy Spirit is the same as He is portrayed in the bible, YOU believe He has changed YOU are the non believer.


MILLIONS are being swept into the kingdom on other continents through the pentecostal movement while the evangelical church in America and Europe languish ... African Pentecostals are coming to England as missionaries.


And let's be honest with one another


The evangelical church in America and Europe would have been dead and buried decades ago if there had not been the Pentecostal revival. Even now if you were take out the various Pentecostal movements from the USA there would be no evangelical voice left. Man they are in the White house advising your President.



At the end of the age Jesus taught, He will send out His angels to gather the wicked out of His kingdom so the day of the Lord begins with the destruction of Antichrist and those who have received his mark. He will rule the nations with a rod of iron, putting down all authority and power. That is how the day of the Lord [which is the 1,000 years] begins.


The Lord will set His throne in Jerusalem and the reign of righteousness and peace will be rolled out from there.
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: patrick jane on August 26, 2020, 05:05:05 pm
 ;D
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: patrick jane on September 14, 2020, 06:11:22 pm
Ready and waiting
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: patrick jane on September 17, 2020, 06:15:17 pm
Ready and waiting
Yes
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: patrick jane on October 15, 2020, 10:23:16 pm
Ready and waiting
Yes
me too
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: patrick jane on October 24, 2020, 07:34:36 am
Ready and waiting
Yes
me too
8)
Title: Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
Post by: Bladerunner on October 24, 2020, 05:33:54 pm
Ready and waiting
Yes
me too
8)

really depends of the church? you are speaking of....the Denominational church or the Church (body of Christ)

Blade