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Discussion | Christian News | Chaplain's Office => Open Discussion => Topic started by: Mr E on March 25, 2020, 03:37:13 pm

Title: Religion- something for everyone
Post by: Mr E on March 25, 2020, 03:37:13 pm
Sing along with me--- if you are!


https://youtu.be/-Wcg_TtJbkw
Title: Re: Religion- something for everyone
Post by: Mr E on March 25, 2020, 03:52:04 pm
Pick a flavor and drink from the cup. 

If it doesn't suit your tastes, pick something else.  There's something for everyone. 

There really is.   

But not if you ask everyone, because most everyone will try to tell you that you must drink from their cup.  None more vehemently than the Jews.  Unless it's the Catholics.... But the Muslims?  They will insist that they are the true religion.  So will the protestants who fill cups with more flavors than anyone can count, and then there are the various cults of mormons, JW's, universalists, gnostics, peaceniks and priests of the green movement.

Oh and Hindus, Buddhists, Spiritualists of all kinds- such as native indians, african tribes or primal indigenous people of all kinds.

You must know that you can find both fine, and horrible folks among any and all groups.... why?  Because they are people and there are fine and horrible people everywhere within, or without religion.  And there are people who are fine at times, and horrible at other times.  Isn't it so of everyone you know?  Including you and me?

Honestly.  Do you think the cup you drink from is the very best flavor?  Do you insist that it must be?  Do you insist that others must come and taste and see?  That they are condemned if they do not?

Isn't that a little presumptuous?

Title: Re: Religion- something for everyone
Post by: patrick jane on March 25, 2020, 05:30:18 pm
Pick a flavor and drink from the cup. 

If it doesn't suit your tastes, pick something else.  There's something for everyone. 

There really is.   

But not if you ask everyone, because most everyone will try to tell you that you must drink from their cup.  None more vehemently than the Jews.  Unless it's the Catholics.... But the Muslims?  They will insist that they are the true religion.  So will the protestants who fill cups with more flavors than anyone can count, and then there are the various cults of mormons, JW's, universalists, gnostics, peaceniks and priests of the green movement.

Oh and Hindus, Buddhists, Spiritualists of all kinds- such as native indians, african tribes or primal indigenous people of all kinds.

You must know that you can find both fine, and horrible folks among any and all groups.... why?  Because they are people and there are fine and horrible people everywhere within, or without religion.  And there are people who are fine at times, and horrible at other times.  Isn't it so of everyone you know?  Including you and me?

Honestly.  Do you think the cup you drink from is the very best flavor?  Do you insist that it must be?  Do you insist that others must come and taste and see?  That they are condemned if they do not?

Isn't that a little presumptuous?
So true, yet there is but one doctrine. Jesus Christ and Him crucified, buried and resurrected for the forgiveness of our sins. I do not force my theology on anyone and I can certainly be wrong about many things in the Bible. Who am I to judge another's heart? Although, Galatians 1:8-9 is in full effect it's not my place to scorn someone for thinking differently than me. I don't hate or condemn but rather, I persuade people.
Title: Re: Religion- something for everyone
Post by: Mr E on March 25, 2020, 06:01:40 pm

So true, yet there is but one doctrine. Jesus Christ and Him crucified, buried and resurrected for the forgiveness of our sins. I do not force my theology on anyone and I can certainly be wrong about many things in the Bible. Who am I to judge another's heart? Although, Galatians 1:8-9 is in full effect it's not my place to scorn someone for thinking differently than me. I don't hate or condemn but rather, I persuade people.
[/quote]

You said it all right there... that a man would see his flesh put his to death and buried, be forgiven and rise again.

Yet there is not one doctrine, there are many.  The Way of Jesus can be found from many divergent paths. 
Title: Re: Religion- something for everyone
Post by: Ted T. on March 25, 2020, 07:39:21 pm
Yet there is not one doctrine, there are many.  The Way of Jesus can be found from many divergent paths.

Sure but...

The JWs non-divine Jesus is not the Way.

The Mormon earthly but elevated to divine status Jesus is not the Way.

The Buddhist "we are all divine" divine Jesus is not the way.

The Calvinist Jesus who created some of us just to end in hell is not the way.

The Armenian Jesus who calls for the gates of hell to shut upon those who can be saved but who have not yet decided to accept HIS salvation is not the way.

<BIG sigh>  <double facepalm>
Title: Re: Religion- something for everyone
Post by: Mr E on March 25, 2020, 08:39:35 pm
Yet there is not one doctrine, there are many.  The Way of Jesus can be found from many divergent paths.

Sure but...

The JWs non-divine Jesus is not the Way.

The Mormon earthly but elevated to divine status Jesus is not the Way.

The Buddhist "we are all divine" divine Jesus is not the way.

The Calvinist Jesus who created some of us just to end in hell is not the way.

The Armenian Jesus who calls for the gates of hell to shut upon those who can be saved but who have not yet decided to accept HIS salvation is not the way.

<BIG sigh>  <double facepalm>

I said many paths.  Not all paths.

Your Jesus, right?

Did Adam and Eve have your Jesus?  Or Noah? Did Abraham have your Jesus?
Did Moses have your Jesus?

So they came by another path, did they not? Or did you condemn them to hell with all the others you wouldn't admit?
Title: Re: Religion- something for everyone
Post by: patrick jane on March 25, 2020, 08:58:28 pm
Mister Mister, I think the prophets knew of a Saviour as they were told in many different ways, some were mysteries. I believe Isaiah knew Christ for instance.
Title: Re: Religion- something for everyone
Post by: Mr E on March 25, 2020, 10:37:10 pm
The Christ, yes.

But if you were to conduct a survey of religious adherents of all different stripes as mentioned in the OP, of those that follow Jesus-- they will all tell you that Jesus is the only way.  Jesus.  They might say Jesus Christ, but they will insist that only Jesus saves and that Jesus died for them to save them, so it must be retroactive, right?

As another example-- John the Baptist.  He died before Jesus was crucified, so he was retroactively saved by the death and sacrifice of Jesus?

Is that how it must work?

Title: Re: Religion- something for everyone
Post by: Mr E on March 26, 2020, 05:37:33 pm
It proposes a problem for some folks, to phrase it this way.

On one hand-- if you were to say that ONLY by Jesus Christ is one saved, then you have stuck yourself in a bit of a corner.  You would have to insist that people like Abraham, Moses, and John the Baptist and others like them who preceded the time of the crucifixion were either- not saved by the blood of Christ, or that the blood of Christ somehow applies to even those who lived and sinned and died before the time of Jesus. 

And if the blood applies to those who never knew him or the good news, then surely it also applies (is available) to other people who have never even heard the gospel or had an opportunity to repent. 

It's an interesting conundrum.  Except it isn't.  It's obvious that Jesus is the Way-- in that it is through the Christ that is the example and it is clear that the Christ is not limited to space and time and our understanding of this work.

Title: Re: Religion- something for everyone
Post by: patrick jane on March 26, 2020, 05:48:39 pm
It proposes a problem for some folks, to phrase it this way.

On one hand-- if you were to say that ONLY by Jesus Christ is one saved, then you have stuck yourself in a bit of a corner.  You would have to insist that people like Abraham, Moses, and John the Baptist and others like them who preceded the time of the crucifixion were either- not saved by the blood of Christ, or that the blood of Christ somehow applies to even those who lived and sinned and died before the time of Jesus. 

And if the blood applies to those who never knew him or the good news, then surely it also applies (is available) to other people who have never even heard the gospel or had an opportunity to repent. 

It's an interesting conundrum.  Except it isn't.  It's obvious that Jesus is the Way-- in that it is through the Christ that is the example and it is clear that the Christ is not limited to space and time and our understanding of this work.
Wrong. People have always been saved by grace through faith just as we are now. That is why there is a New Testament, because of the birth and life of Jesus, the Messiah, the Anointed One, the Saviour. Jesus was sent by His Father for the Jews only. God knew they would reject Him and murder him and now the Gentiles are grafted in. Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life and there is no other way.
Title: Re: Religion- something for everyone
Post by: Mr E on March 26, 2020, 05:59:42 pm
It proposes a problem for some folks, to phrase it this way.

On one hand-- if you were to say that ONLY by Jesus Christ is one saved, then you have stuck yourself in a bit of a corner.  You would have to insist that people like Abraham, Moses, and John the Baptist and others like them who preceded the time of the crucifixion were either- not saved by the blood of Christ, or that the blood of Christ somehow applies to even those who lived and sinned and died before the time of Jesus. 

And if the blood applies to those who never knew him or the good news, then surely it also applies (is available) to other people who have never even heard the gospel or had an opportunity to repent. 

It's an interesting conundrum.  Except it isn't.  It's obvious that Jesus is the Way-- in that it is through the Christ that is the example and it is clear that the Christ is not limited to space and time and our understanding of this work.


Wrong. People have always been saved by grace through faith just as we are now. That is why there is a New Testament, because of the birth and life of Jesus, the Messiah, the Anointed One, the Saviour. Jesus was sent by His Father for the Jews only. God knew they would reject Him and murder him and now the Gentiles are grafted in. Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life and there is no other way.


We are saying the same thing a different manner.  Saved by grace, through faith.  But obviously those who preceded JESUS, did not put their faith in JESUS, so those who say that the only means of salvation is by faith in JESUS Christ, are lacking understanding, and secondarily-- people can and are saved by grace, through faith-- though they walk other paths.
Title: Re: Religion- something for everyone
Post by: patrick jane on March 26, 2020, 06:03:41 pm
It proposes a problem for some folks, to phrase it this way.

On one hand-- if you were to say that ONLY by Jesus Christ is one saved, then you have stuck yourself in a bit of a corner.  You would have to insist that people like Abraham, Moses, and John the Baptist and others like them who preceded the time of the crucifixion were either- not saved by the blood of Christ, or that the blood of Christ somehow applies to even those who lived and sinned and died before the time of Jesus. 

And if the blood applies to those who never knew him or the good news, then surely it also applies (is available) to other people who have never even heard the gospel or had an opportunity to repent. 

It's an interesting conundrum.  Except it isn't.  It's obvious that Jesus is the Way-- in that it is through the Christ that is the example and it is clear that the Christ is not limited to space and time and our understanding of this work.


Wrong. People have always been saved by grace through faith just as we are now. That is why there is a New Testament, because of the birth and life of Jesus, the Messiah, the Anointed One, the Saviour. Jesus was sent by His Father for the Jews only. God knew they would reject Him and murder him and now the Gentiles are grafted in. Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life and there is no other way.


We are saying the same thing a different manner.  Saved by grace, through faith.  But obviously those who preceded JESUS, did not put their faith in JESUS, so those who say that the only means of salvation is by faith in JESUS Christ, are lacking understanding, and secondarily-- people can and are saved by grace, through faith-- though they walk other paths.
Before Christ was the Old Testament, no belief in Jesus was required but obeying the law was. Now it is grace. Simple.
Title: Re: Religion- something for everyone
Post by: Mr E on March 26, 2020, 06:52:08 pm
Yes-- simple.

Abraham, Issac and Jacob-- to name a few all came before Moses and thus before the Law.

So God comes, as He chooses, to whom He chooses, how He chooses and it is by His grace, we are saved.

Those who insist the God must come in a manner they expect are those who miss (sin) when He comes in a manner they do not expect.
Title: Re: Religion- something for everyone
Post by: patrick jane on March 26, 2020, 08:30:26 pm
Yes and since the DBR of Jesus Christ believing in Him is required for eternal life. Anyone and everyone who does not believe is not saved.
Title: Re: Religion- something for everyone
Post by: patrick jane on March 29, 2020, 11:04:36 pm
Yes-- simple.

Abraham, Issac and Jacob-- to name a few all came before Moses and thus before the Law.

So God comes, as He chooses, to whom He chooses, how He chooses and it is by His grace, we are saved.

Those who insist the God must come in a manner they expect are those who miss (sin) when He comes in a manner they do not expect.
The title indicates that there are many ways TODAY to be saved other than by belief in Jesus Christ. The Old Covenant was replaced.
Title: Re: Religion- something for everyone
Post by: Mr E on March 30, 2020, 06:33:28 pm
Abram was a pagan when God came to him.

So God can and has come to pagans...by definition, someone who holds diverse religious views. 

Could God come to a Muslim?  A Buddhist?  A Hindu?  Do you think he hasn't?

God reveals Himself to whom He chooses, and by the manner in which He chooses.  God is not limited in any way by the imaginary limits we (in error) try to put on Him.  The Bible- the old testament in particular tells the stories it tells as examples of how God came and communicated to different people at different times.  It's a sampling, not a comprehensive collection for all peoples and at all times.  When Christ came and communicated the Word of the Father that was in him, he made it clear that there was no barriers to entry into the Kingdom of God... no requirements other than to turn from misunderstanding to understanding, from darkness to Light and from sin to Life.  Turn, believe and be saved.  This was for all people- not just a few select, or elect or with special genetics, or special understanding-- but for all.  For any who would hear and take to heart his message.
Title: Re: Religion- something for everyone
Post by: patrick jane on April 01, 2020, 12:27:39 am
Mr E, I think Jesus said to believe in Him and repent, that was the message. Not that God might come to each one of you and save you by grace, right? Israel was cut off again for unbelief.
Title: Re: Religion- something for everyone
Post by: Mr E on April 01, 2020, 10:58:25 am
Mr E, I think Jesus said to believe in Him and repent, that was the message. Not that God might come to each one of you and save you by grace, right? Israel was cut off again for unbelief.

We are judged on honest scales.  What do we do with the light we are given?

From those who were given much, much will be required.  From those who were given little, little is required. Luke 12

God does come to all but not everyone receives Him.  And those who claim to see and to know and by this teach others --from these there will be a difficult accounting.  Those who have rejected Him and opposed Him will be cut off.
Title: Re: Religion- something for everyone
Post by: patrick jane on April 08, 2020, 11:09:10 pm
Mr E, I think Jesus said to believe in Him and repent, that was the message. Not that God might come to each one of you and save you by grace, right? Israel was cut off again for unbelief.

We are judged on honest scales.  What do we do with the light we are given?

From those who were given much, much will be required.  From those who were given little, little is required. Luke 12

God does come to all but not everyone receives Him.  And those who claim to see and to know and by this teach others --from these there will be a difficult accounting.  Those who have rejected Him and opposed Him will be cut off.
Interesting.