Patrick Jane Forums

Christian Theology with DOUG and TED T. => Christian Threads => Topic started by: Mr E on February 24, 2020, 02:45:51 am

Title: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Mr E on February 24, 2020, 02:45:51 am
Thank you Mr Big Fish, for the invitation to join here.

Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 13:47-50)
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: patrick jane on February 24, 2020, 02:52:31 pm
Thank you Mr Big Fish, for the invitation to join here.

Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 13:47-50)
Simple and true. I know I'm not as good as I could be or maybe should. I know because I don't try hard enough I think. At the same time, I believe my heart is good and that I will have eternal life with God and Christ and the whole host of heaven.

I can almost imagine but it's difficult to comprehend of course and we can't know here on earth how wonderful heaven is. We are seated in heavenly places already.
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Mr E on March 04, 2020, 08:17:32 pm
Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like the internet that catches all kinds of fish.  How do you screen folks?  How do you sort them?  The difficult thing about the many internet fishing holes of which this is one, is the practiced art of deception.  People are seldom what they purport to be.  They are seldom honest, seldom true, seldom transparent, and never aware.

If people knew they were being watched, or if they thought that they had no anonymity, would they behave differently?  Would there be fewer internet warriors?

What a tangled web....

“Oh, what a tangled web we weave...when first we practice to deceive.”

Same guy said--

“Blessed be his name, who hath appointed the quiet night to follow the busy day, and the calm sleep to refresh the wearied limbs and to compose the troubled spirit.” (Sir Walter Scott)

Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Jesus Truth on March 04, 2020, 08:43:48 pm
Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like the internet that catches all kinds of fish.  How do you screen folks?  How do you sort them?  The difficult thing about the many internet fishing holes of which this is one, is the practiced art of deception.  People are seldom what they purport to be.  They are seldom honest, seldom true, seldom transparent, and never aware.

If people knew they were being watched, or if they thought that they had no anonymity, would they behave differently?  Would there be fewer internet warriors?

What a tangled web....

“Oh, what a tangled web we weave...when first we practice to deceive.”

Same guy said--

“Blessed be his name, who hath appointed the quiet night to follow the busy day, and the calm sleep to refresh the wearied limbs and to compose the troubled spirit.” (Sir Walter Scott)
We judge. Many times we judge or "assess" quickly, as an instinctive action. I think time always tells when getting to know someone. On the internet I say the exact same things as I do to people in person, believe it or not. To get a glimpse of how I interact with people I have all of my live streams post, good and bad, wonderful and ugly.

I truly have nothing to hide and I believe strongly that God is working in my life presently more than He has in the past although, upon reflection I see God in my life as far back as I can remember. I am also quick to anger and I can be verbally abusive which I am still working on.

I started a PayPal and a Patreon and my YT channels long before I had any support. I'm not on YT to make a profit. My entire life in the last 6 years has been transformed into spreading the truth as I understand it, whether anyone agrees with me or not. I like to facilitate connections and fellowship with between people and think and talk about God.

I donate most all of the money I receive back to other creators in need. Of course, the greatest content creator of all time is our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ !!!
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Jesus Truth on March 04, 2020, 08:58:16 pm
BTW Mr E, this is me also - patrick jane. My real name is Mark.   :o ;D ;)
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Mr E on March 05, 2020, 02:07:51 pm
I've seen some of you highs and lows Mark.  I applaud your honesty and transparency. 

Do you find that to be the norm?  Or are you outside the norm.  Most people don't want their name attached to their profile or there whereabouts disclosed and there are a lot of valid reasons for that precaution in this world we live in.  The dangers are real and not made up.

What I'm speaking of is intentional deceit- which exists where people have multiple persona, multiple accounts and a myriad of reasons for doing the things they do.

When I say the kingdom of heaven is like a net, or like the internet, when you pull it all into your boat you have to be selective.  You have to be willing and able and discerning enough to hold on to what is good and cast the rest away.  That's kind of opposed to the goal and intent of most content developers wouldn't you say?

Most think that an accumulation of eyeballs is the definition of success without even a minute's thought of these concerns.  Is any member a good member?

Sure-- if all you are trying to accomplish is an accumulation of members. But if you have some other purpose, this should be reflected in your net results.  Know what I mean?  Matthew and Mark both address membership issues in terms of what is profitable.  They aren't speaking of monetizing anything either.

When you invited me here you indicated that you only invite certain people. Would you mind sharing what criteria you use to determine who gets an invite?
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: patrick jane on March 05, 2020, 04:24:14 pm
I invite people here that I feel a connection with. Either a post or after reading many posts from a person. I don't consider anyone members. I invite people that are mature and are deep thinkers.

I am disabled and have low income so the monetized thing is a blessing from God that I never planned on or thought possible. I initially thought that if an occasional person really liked my video or my message they might donate.

I started this forum because I was being censored on every forum and ridiculed, banned, blocked and mocked. I was prepared to be the only one here. Sometimes I question even my own motives because I do begin to think about money now in different ways.

I am not a teacher or a pastor and I make that clear. I didn't invite anyone here for the reason of possibly getting donations. It was 16 months before Bladerunner gave me $30 one time and my dear friend Michael Cadry whom I've known since 2014 graciously gives me $40 a month which is double what I pay each month for this forum.

I have other expenses that I consider part of this forum which total $72 altogether. It's worth it. Theology Forums was empty until I joined there and invited over 100 people I knew from other forums. Perhaps you weren't aware of that. I joined in March 2018. It's good talking to you and you can ask me anything. I will either tell you or I won't, lol.
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Mr E on March 05, 2020, 11:35:28 pm
Please don't think I'm calling your motives into question.  I'm not.  I'm just trying to determine what this place is, why it exists, what it's purpose is and what it should mean to me.

I understand completely what you are talking about in terms of other forums.  I've tried speaking up at other places-- so called 'Christian' forums where you have to think and speak only of approved topics in an acceptable manner.  Challenge their thinking?  Heretic!

I stumbled across CherubRam's forum a few months ago and within a day he had invited me to Theology Forum and I truly appreciate what it is, and I know you are a big part of what it is, so thank you for that and again, I'm not questioning you beyond my honest questions in wanting to understand.

My own awakening I've shared elsewhere came about in a very small forum setting which I had found while searching to gain insight around some strange dreams I'd been having.  I found a man-- named Mark also, who could understand dreams and believe it or not, he was able to interact with me, in my dreams.  I would see him, speak with him, sit with him, walk with him and so on, and we became fast friends.  I visited him once in person in Wyoming and we sat and had lunch together... well I had lunch and he had coffee and pie.

We keep in touch only on rare occasion these days as he prefers his own company mostly, lives remotely in the mountains of Colorado and enjoys some solace there.  He facilitated incredible changes in me and I know without a doubt that I wouldn't be here or in any forum had he not shown me the things he did, when he did, and the way he did.

That forum blew up while we conversed together and then not long afterwards he left and then the forum literally blew up and disappeared.  I've never found another place that felt right, though I tested waters at several different places-- no where felt right and my fire faded.

Then my wife developed a brain tumor that was taking her sight and that and other cares of this world robbed me of any interest in spiritual things and for the last number of years I haven't spoken of any of these things at all until I clicked upon Cherubram's place, Theology Forum and now here.

When I discovered (I think it was you who told me) that the Tattooed Theist was the site owner there and when I looked at some of his stuff I was drawn in and finding the site to be at least somewhat of a safe space for seekers of truth I opened up a little and in doing so my dreams returned and so I speak there of what I know from what I'm shown and told.  Weird eh?

And of this place?  Who knows?
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: patrick jane on April 08, 2020, 11:07:31 pm
Mr E, how are you doing lately brother? What have you imagined and visualized about heaven starting from what you thought as a child until today. What things do you think about when you think of heaven? Have you heard of the hoary frost of heaven?☢🚮☕
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: patrick jane on April 09, 2020, 05:32:32 pm
Mr E - I don't think you see my posts all the time -🕵️‍♂️🆒
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Mr E on April 09, 2020, 08:13:10 pm
I'm sorry Mark-- I just saw this now....

That's a big question.  You might think this strange, but I have almost no memories of my childhood.  So very little.  I remember a few people- a friend I shared a name with and the lunch his mom made for us once.  The bread was fresh and she spread real butter on it then stacked it high with what seemed like a whole package of that thin-sliced lunch meat.  And she brought two little plates for us like this with the sandwiches and on the side she had set a handful of potato chips and a pickle... and she brought these down from the kitchen to the two of us who were laying on the floor with blankets watching Monty Python and the holy grail.  That was heaven from my childhood.  And I didn't have a care in the world.

The image of it in my mind is based on places I have been and experiences I have had and in spirit these are the concepts that are expressed to me that my mind can associate with what people would call heaven.  It's nothing far off or beyond, rather it is a place set apart- where nothing prevails upon it.  If I could take you along to swim with me in the warm waters of the Bahamas, or sip a beer with you on my porch, or stand atop a mountain with you in the chill of a sunny winter day- it's all the same.  I see the Father.  His creation.  His goodness.  And even in the cold I feel his warmth for it comes from within.  I feel His pleasure because His face shines upon me... and this is heaven-- to be with Him, to feel His goodness and to please Him. 

The hoary frost... this is the story of a man.  The story of man.  And Job is tested as all men will be tested and he is humbled as all men are humbled and in his quest for understanding he asks many questions of God- and the Father sets him down at some point and says- again, as He does with all--- You think you know?  You think you understand?  You think I have some kind of obligation to explain myself or everything or anything to you?  How about you explain it to me?

And as a Father would speak to his presumptuous offspring only then does Job understand what he never understood before-- the ineffable things that proclaim the nature and spectrum of God that we can't begin to comprehend apart from whatever understanding He gives to us. And this realization brings Job to repentance.

Conceptually water is spirit and frozen water- ice, or hail, or this hoary frost relates to water at rest or what Jesus called those asleep.  Like Lazarus or others he raised from the dead, there is a place of waiting and rest for those who will be awakened.  Resurrection to rain once again upon the earth.

I work a lot with bone grafting.  The bone graft is 'harvested' from folks who have just died and they remove cell-rich bone material from these donors in a very timely manner after death.  These are usual young, otherwise healthy donors, for example victims of motorcycle accidents and such.  The cellular material is cryo-preserved as a bone matrix and stored in a frozen medium that preserves and protects the stem-cells without damage for years.  The containers are frozen in liquid state Nitrogen (-196 C) where all cellular activity (cell degradation or death) would occur.  It could stay there indefinitely, but when needed it is transported to the hospital where we thaw it and then implant it to fill voids, heal or fuse bones together and when thawed and implanted into an environment (a patient) with an ample blood supply- those cells come back to life.

Interesting eh?



Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Jesus Truth on May 12, 2020, 12:45:29 am
Mr E tell us more about the Kingdom Of Heaven
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Mr E on May 12, 2020, 02:12:49 pm
All I can offer you is broken bread.  You can decide if you want to eat it, or not.

People often think of heaven as far off, but that isn't how the Christ described it.  He taught us to pray to 'our' Father-- ours and his, one and the same.  Ever thought of it like that?  Have you ever believed it like that? 

And he taught us to pray to this mutual Father of ours--- 'Thy kingdom (the Kingdom of Heaven) come.' 

Thy will be done.... On the earth, as (thy will is done also) in heaven.

"Heaven" or the kingdom of heaven is not a physical place, but spiritual.  It should be thought of as a place 'within us.'  Yet, the place within us can be perceived.  Do you know how?

You cannot fully perceive of that which is within by looking at the outward appearance, but you can conceive of the idea that a container is made for a purpose.

 "He Himself knew what was in man." (John 2)

So rather than telling you about the kingdom of heaven- let me ask you about it.  What do you perceive of heaven by looking within yourself?

If someone was sent to us on a mission to express what it is like, to what could they compare it to offer even a glimpse?

https://youtu.be/5Gvrp20_WXM

Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Bladerunner on May 12, 2020, 06:44:04 pm
All I can offer you is broken bread.  You can decide if you want to eat it, or not.

People often think of heaven as far off, but that isn't how the Christ described it.  He taught us to pray to 'our' Father-- ours and his, one and the same.  Ever thought of it like that?  Have you ever believed it like that? 

And he taught us to pray to this mutual Father of ours--- 'Thy kingdom (the Kingdom of Heaven) come.' 

Thy will be done.... On the earth, as (thy will is done also) in heaven.

"Heaven" or the kingdom of heaven is not a physical place, but spiritual.  It should be thought of as a place 'within us.'  Yet, the place within us can be perceived.  Do you know how?

You cannot fully perceive of that which is within by looking at the outward appearance, but you can conceive of the idea that a container is made for a purpose.

 "He Himself knew what was in man." (John 2)

So rather than telling you about the kingdom of heaven- let me ask you about it.  What do you perceive of heaven by looking within yourself?

If someone was sent to us on a mission to express what it is like, to what could they compare it to offer even a glimpse?

https://youtu.be/5Gvrp20_WXM

so all in all, everything is spiritual and we are what we are today and that is all there is,.?

Is this what you are saying..?????.

Blade
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Mr E on May 12, 2020, 08:20:50 pm
If I'd said that, you wouldn't have to ask if I'd said that.

Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: patrick jane on May 12, 2020, 08:40:12 pm
All I can offer you is broken bread.  You can decide if you want to eat it, or not.

People often think of heaven as far off, but that isn't how the Christ described it.  He taught us to pray to 'our' Father-- ours and his, one and the same.  Ever thought of it like that?  Have you ever believed it like that? 

And he taught us to pray to this mutual Father of ours--- 'Thy kingdom (the Kingdom of Heaven) come.' 

Thy will be done.... On the earth, as (thy will is done also) in heaven.

"Heaven" or the kingdom of heaven is not a physical place, but spiritual.  It should be thought of as a place 'within us.'  Yet, the place within us can be perceived.  Do you know how?

You cannot fully perceive of that which is within by looking at the outward appearance, but you can conceive of the idea that a container is made for a purpose.

 "He Himself knew what was in man." (John 2)

So rather than telling you about the kingdom of heaven- let me ask you about it.  What do you perceive of heaven by looking within yourself?

If someone was sent to us on a mission to express what it is like, to what could they compare it to offer even a glimpse?

https://youtu.be/5Gvrp20_WXM
Thank you. I believe heaven is pure love where the feeling of love and peace is infinite or complete. We all yearn to see our family and friends again in heaven. I feel like we will know all things that God reveals and we will all know each other. Yes, I want to worship God and sing and praise Him but I want my earthly loved ones to be with me.
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Mr E on May 12, 2020, 09:10:07 pm
It's not exactly like that. 

Beyond the door there's peace I'm sure
And I know there'll be no more tears in heaven


Neither married or given in marriage. 

While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him.  Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”

He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers.  For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”





The man of a thousand faces
Sits down at the table
Eats a small lump of sugar
And smiles at the moon like he knows her
And begins his quiet ascension
Without anyone's sturdy instruction
To a place of no religion
Has found a path to our alikeness
His words are quiet like stains are
On a table cloth washed in a river
Stains that are trying to cover, for each other
Or at least blend in with the pattern

Good is better than perfect
Scrub til your fingers are bleeding
And I'm crying for things that I tell others to do without crying
He used to go to his favorite bookstores
And rip out his favorite pages
And stuff them into his breast pocket
And the moon to him was a stranger
Now he sits down at the table
Right next to the window
And begins his quiet ascension
Without anyone's sturdy instruction
To a place of no religion
Has found a path to our alikeness
And eats a small lump of sugar
And smiles at the moon like he knows her

https://youtu.be/80U5YdGrt9g
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Bladerunner on May 13, 2020, 11:46:57 pm
It's not exactly like that. 

Beyond the door there's peace I'm sure
And I know there'll be no more tears in heaven


Neither married or given in marriage. 

While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him.  Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”

He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers.  For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”
[/color]

The man of a thousand faces
Sits down at the table
Eats a small lump of sugar
And smiles at the moon like he knows her
And begins his quiet ascension
Without anyone's sturdy instruction
To a place of no religion
Has found a path to our alikeness
His words are quiet like stains are
On a table cloth washed in a river
Stains that are trying to cover, for each other
Or at least blend in with the pattern

Good is better than perfect
Scrub til your fingers are bleeding
And I'm crying for things that I tell others to do without crying
He used to go to his favorite bookstores
And rip out his favorite pages
And stuff them into his breast pocket
And the moon to him was a stranger
Now he sits down at the table
Right next to the window
And begins his quiet ascension
Without anyone's sturdy instruction
To a place of no religion
Has found a path to our alikeness
And eats a small lump of sugar
And smiles at the moon like he knows her

https://youtu.be/80U5YdGrt9g

 “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers.  For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”[/i]

Please list chapter and verse for this?

Blade
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Mr E on May 14, 2020, 12:54:17 pm
Here you go....

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=who+are+my+mother+and+brothers+and+sisters
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Chaplain Mark Schmidt on May 17, 2020, 01:12:56 am
When I got my invitation to join this site by Patrick I admit I was confused.  Patrick and I had disagreed more than agreed on things in Theology Forum.  We always had calm and intellectual disagreements and respected each other differences though, and that is very important to me. 

It is threads like this one presently that makes me glad I came to this site and I thank him for the invite.

I would like to add more to the discussion in this thread but I think everything has been said I would have said.
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: patrick jane on May 17, 2020, 04:05:00 am
When I got my invitation to join this site by Patrick I admit I was confused.  Patrick and I had disagreed more than agreed on things in Theology Forum.  We always had calm and intellectual disagreements and respected each other differences though, and that is very important to me. 

It is threads like this one presently that makes me glad I came to this site and I thank him for the invite.

I would like to add more to the discussion in this thread but I think everything has been said I would have said.
Thank you Mark. I know we likely don't agree on the true nature of the earth and cosmos but we may agree on many things theologically. I liked your posts and you as a person and thought to invite you. Thank you for contributing so much here.
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Mr E on May 17, 2020, 11:27:01 am
I'm offering a notably different view of things that is likely far from what most folks think.  And furthermore, I recognize that what I offer isn't even particularly appealing to the mind and senses, least of all to traditional thinking.  It might even be offensive.

So why mention it?

Because this bread I've been given I am to break and share.  No more, no less.  And this I will do.

As the parable of the seeds is the key to understanding all parables, this key is then used to unlock many doors to the kingdom of heaven.

“For it is just like a man about to go on a journey, who called his own slaves and entrusted his possessions to them. “To one he gave five talents, to another, two, and to another, one, each according to his own ability; and he went on his journey.  “Immediately the one who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and gained five more talents. “In the same manner the one who had received the two talents gained two more.  “But he who received the one talent went away, and dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money."

Who is this man who went away?  And what was it that he entrusted to his servants?  Finally, who were the servants?

The kingdom of heaven is very different than the place that most people the world over associate with the concept of "heaven."  Most people think of it as a place of eternal rest and of peace- and indeed there is such 'a city' within this kingdom, but this is only one part of the kingdom.  It's a gated community for a reason.  People use terms such as "spiritual warfare" loosely and without consideration that in spirit the battles fought and won are not esoteric allusions or ethereal beliefs, but real conflict.  They mistakenly think that 'not flesh and blood' must mean 'not real warfare.'  This is error.

So a man came and went, but while he was here he took bread and gave thanks and broke it and of this he said 'This is my body given for you.'

And they ate it.

 “Now after a long time the master of those slaves came and settled accounts with them."
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Mr E on May 17, 2020, 02:52:01 pm
https://youtu.be/z4R4PVEwX5U
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Bladerunner on May 17, 2020, 06:29:54 pm
https://youtu.be/z4R4PVEwX5U

You said:"As the parable of the seeds is the key to understanding all parables, this key is then used to unlock many doors to the kingdom of heaven."

Jesus tells us exactly what the parables mean.....yet you offer your own interpretation.......against Jesus?   unbelievable.

Blade
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Mr E on May 17, 2020, 11:32:34 pm
Hello Bladerunner

Perhaps you can tell me which part is as you say- "against Jesus?"

Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Bladerunner on May 18, 2020, 09:31:10 am
https://youtu.be/z4R4PVEwX5U

You said:"As the parable of the seeds is the key to understanding all parables, this key is then used to unlock many doors to the kingdom of heaven."

Jesus tells us exactly what the parables mean.....yet you offer your own interpretation.......against Jesus?   unbelievable.

Blade

It would help to repeat the WORD of GOD, not your own words about the parables,..He tells all of us the meanings. DOn't try to change them, They are literal.

Blade
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Mr E on May 18, 2020, 11:07:45 am
So, in other words..... you got nuthin'
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Firestarter on May 18, 2020, 11:39:23 am
In my opinion the posts of Mr E show a lot promise that isn't completely fulfilled.
Mr E is still a complete "mystery" to me and there's actually more personal information on Patrick Jane in this thread than about Mr E.
I would be interested in Mr E posting on health care topics...


My own awakening I've shared elsewhere came about in a very small forum setting which I had found while searching to gain insight around some strange dreams I'd been having.  I found a man-- named Mark also, who could understand dreams and believe it or not, he was able to interact with me, in my dreams.  I would see him, speak with him, sit with him, walk with him and so on, and we became fast friends.  I visited him once in person in Wyoming and we sat and had lunch together... well I had lunch and he had coffee and pie.
I'm not so much interested in Mr E's interpretation of "heaven" but this "awakening" sounds interesting! Or is this "awakening" the pathway to "heaven"?!?

Is it something we can all reach? How?
What does this have to do with dreams?

It looks like this understander of dreams "Mark" had some sort of telepathic powers. I think that most people that have these kind of powers abuse them. Why do you believe that this man has helped you in your awakening? Maybe you would have found out "better" without his "help"?

I think that the best way to learn is learning from our mistakes. When somebody else helps you this if often counterproductive. I'm not saying that this was the case in this situation though...
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Mr E on May 20, 2020, 12:13:07 pm
My "awakening" isn't what this thread is about, but I don't mind talking about the process.

No- awakening is not the pathway to heaven, but the pathway to heaven cannot be traveled unless you are awake.  If you are asleep, you dream, but if you are awaken, you walk.  He who looks outside, dreams; He who looks inside, awakens.

All of your other questions relate.

Who can travel this path and how?  Anyone and everyone can travel this path, but most don't perceive of it.  Most dismiss the reality and are willing to trade it for soup du jour like Esau.  Messengers come and go to all, with people mostly unaware or in ignorance or sleepiness or pride they dismiss the message or simply don't understand it...

Dreams are the pathway.  There are other ways to see and I know some people have had things like near death experiences, or out of body experiences where they become aware that their spirit lives and experiences reality on a different plane.  Some people benefit from meditation, but I'm inept and a complete novice in this regard.

My cowboy friend Mark seems to be aware of everything that happens to some degree and he was able to travel at will.  It was almost like he was the proverbial fly on the wall, able to come and go and see and hear without much of a fuss.  The help he provided me was mostly in the form of understanding what it was I was seeing, but first he taught me to pay attention. 

Before he became known as the apostle Peter, there was a simple fisherman named Simon.  True to the meaning of his name -one who hearkens.  To see, one must only turn, and look.  This is the true meaning of repentance.

Without Mark's help I would be a wild mustang- free and untamed, this much is true.  Wild horses are beautiful enough and live their lives unchecked and unencumbered, but for what broader purpose?  They live for themselves and nothing more.  More noble is the horse who lends its strength to another for a greater purpose outside of itself.  At least that is how I see things these days.  We were taught to pray-- not my will, but thine.  -And unto Thee, I commit my spirit.

There is great value in learning from one's mistakes- the key is to not let it take to long.  Of greater value is the gift of learning from the mistakes of others... all of the benefit, none of the pain.  To accept this kind of help from another is wisdom. 

If I was a horse, Mark is a horse whisperer.  And as is the case of any messenger who might come to you- the nature of the messenger can be discerned by the quality of the message.  As a beginning point, the horse has to listen to what is being said, and only then can one begin to learn to understand.
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Mr E on May 20, 2020, 12:16:21 pm
As for heaven--- does this sound like what you think of heaven to be?

Here are some things that happened 'in heaven:"

A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; and she was with child; and she *cried out, being in labor and in pain to give birth.

Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems. And his tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child.

And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne. Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she *had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

 And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war, and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven. And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Chaplain Mark Schmidt on May 20, 2020, 10:49:41 pm
There is a really good book by C.S. Lewis on his concepts of Heaven and Hell written in a fictional story format.  Excellent read.  I highly recommend it if you go in with an open mind.  Check out  "The Great Divorce"   Nice insights into one concept of The Kingdom of Heaven.
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Firestarter on May 21, 2020, 10:31:04 am
All of your other questions relate.
It was sort of one question that I tried to explain by adding some sub questions...
Of course my expressed hope that you would post on health topics isn’t related to my question(s)!


 
No- awakening is not the pathway to heaven, but the pathway to heaven cannot be traveled unless you are awake.  If you are asleep, you dream, but if you are awaken, you walk.  He who looks outside, dreams; He who looks inside, awakens.
I'm not sure but "awakening" sounds similar to the state of "enlightenment" favoured in religions like Hinduism, Buddhism and New Age.
As far as I can tell, you understand that "awakening" isn't absolute, but relative. You can always "awaken" more, so maybe "awakening" could be seen as a journey?!?


Some people benefit from meditation, but I'm inept and a complete novice in this regard.
This also sounds like Hinduism, Buddhism and New Age. I'm no fan of meditation as there is a risk of giving yourself fantastic “dreams”.
As far as I can tell, the only objective of meditation is (or should be) improving your concentration...


Without Mark's help I would be a wild mustang- free and untamed, this much is true.  Wild horses are beautiful enough and live their lives unchecked and unencumbered, but for what broader purpose?  They live for themselves and nothing more.  More noble is the horse who lends its strength to another for a greater purpose outside of itself.  At least that is how I see things these days.  We were taught to pray-- not my will, but thine.  -And unto Thee, I commit my spirit.
I think that the wild mustang is more beautiful than the tamed horse. For the same reason I like children over adults...
I also think that horses are intelligent animals. It’s almost like it’s their intelligence that lets them become enslaved (almost like humans).


There is great value in learning from one's mistakes- the key is to not let it take to long.  Of greater value is the gift of learning from the mistakes of others... all of the benefit, none of the pain.  To accept this kind of help from another is wisdom.
Yeah, but if somebody is afraid to make mistakes, they will always remain a fool!


If I was a horse, Mark is a horse whisperer.  And as is the case of any messenger who might come to you- the nature of the messenger can be discerned by the quality of the message.  As a beginning point, the horse has to listen to what is being said, and only then can one begin to learn to understand.
Some people don’t like it that when they’ve tried to teach me something, it becomes almost unrecognisable because I always interpret things myself and do NOT accept something because somebody tells me.
There are advantages to “my” philosophy though...


As for heaven--- does this sound like what you think of heaven to be?
Your ideas are refreshing in that I haven’t heard it expressed like this before. But then you argue with Bible quotes that certainly aren’t how I picture “heaven”....

I have a problem with how most Christians think of heaven.
When Christians become “faithful” to receive the reward of “heaven” - this is selfish.
Even worse are Christians that are happy that non-believers won’t go to heaven – this is hateful.
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: patrick jane on May 21, 2020, 12:03:42 pm
I'm not happy about people going to hell. I don't think of heaven as a "reward" but a free gift from God the Father.
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Mr E on May 23, 2020, 08:41:08 am
Thank you Chappy Mark. That was helpful. I read it many years ago, but a refresher was beneficial for me.
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Chaplain Mark Schmidt on May 23, 2020, 08:55:32 am
My pleasure Patrick. 
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Mr E on May 23, 2020, 10:20:38 am
Mark that was me, not Patrick saying thanks for the book... That’s what happens when folks go by many names Mark.

Which Mark? — see?  Question Mark.

So too with scriptural authorship. Who wrote what?  Was it John?  Which John? John Mark?  Which James, Judas and Mary?

As for me... you can call me Al.



And I will call you Betty.
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Chaplain Mark Schmidt on May 23, 2020, 09:02:23 pm
My apology. It is as you say on names.
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Mr E on May 23, 2020, 10:10:25 pm
Betty wishes he hadn’t called me Patrick now...

I appreciate Lewis— I particularly like the Narnia theology. Fantasy?

Allegory. Analogy.

You can call me Al

https://youtu.be/9gkNOmx9LLE
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: patrick jane on May 23, 2020, 10:11:38 pm
Mark that was me, not Patrick saying thanks for the book... That’s what happens when folks go by many names Mark.

Which Mark? — see?  Question Mark.

So too with scriptural authorship. Who wrote what?  Was it John?  Which John? John Mark?  Which James, Judas and Mary?

As for me... you can call me Al.



And I will call you Betty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uq-gYOrU8bA
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: patrick jane on July 29, 2020, 07:46:08 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9cYpDbO0kg
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: patrick jane on August 04, 2020, 01:43:51 pm
Good video
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: patrick jane on August 22, 2020, 12:23:25 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_vkD93bQ_Y
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: patrick jane on August 27, 2020, 08:16:43 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRyh0IQFeF4
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Bladerunner on August 27, 2020, 09:11:33 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRyh0IQFeF4

watched it and not sure how it relates to the title. But it is a good video, worth watching.

Blade
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: patrick jane on August 27, 2020, 09:14:17 pm
Because the angels in heaven bow and say holy holy over and over again - Awesome !!!
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: patrick jane on September 15, 2020, 11:44:53 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Wd2mg1bqpI
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Bladerunner on September 15, 2020, 07:37:29 pm
Because the angels in heaven bow and say holy holy over and over again - Awesome !!!

ok. makes sense, guess I was looking for something else. The Holy, Holy, Holy is three times in recognition of the father, the son and the Holy Spirit.

P.s. it appears this forum is doing better than the other (unnamed) forum we frequent.

Blade
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: patrick jane on September 17, 2020, 09:13:23 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lnb9BtjNJA
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: patrick jane on September 21, 2020, 04:04:22 pm
Awesome
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Chaplain Mark Schmidt on September 21, 2020, 08:59:41 pm
That last viedo was interesting prespective. 
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Bladerunner on September 22, 2020, 08:50:48 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lnb9BtjNJA

interesting perspective on the Holy, Holy, Holy and why the living creatures shouted it out. Left Jesus and the Holy Spirit plum out of any mention. Hummmmmm!

Blade
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: patrick jane on September 26, 2020, 09:45:08 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nvymllaPH0
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: patrick jane on September 28, 2020, 09:34:07 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4T9O-z7HZo
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: patrick jane on October 11, 2020, 10:20:37 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4T9O-z7HZo
Interesting
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: patrick jane on October 16, 2020, 08:16:27 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4T9O-z7HZo
Interesting
:o
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: Jesus Truth on October 18, 2020, 08:40:35 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4T9O-z7HZo
Interesting
:o
;D
Title: Re: The kingdom of heaven
Post by: patrick jane on October 22, 2020, 11:03:29 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJijm-Cz13A&list=WL&index=2