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Political, Social and Religious Commentary => From The Desk of Bernard Pyron => Topic started by: bernardpyron on February 13, 2020, 04:03:23 pm

Title: Greek In Romans 11: 26
Post by: bernardpyron on February 13, 2020, 04:03:23 pm
On the Greek Word Houtós In Romans 11: 26

In Romans Chapter 11, the Greek words at the beginning of Romans 11: 26, και ουτως πας ισραηλ σωθησεταικαι can be looked at carefully. The King James translation says "And so all Israel shall be saved"...." But what does ουτως mean? See: https://biblehub.com/greek/3779.htm "3779. houtó and houtós, Definition: in this way, thus, so, in this manner, like this . . .; in this manner, in this way (fashion), in accordance with this description (i.e. corresponding to what follows); in keeping with; along this line, in the manner spoken."..

In the beginning of Romans 11: 26 Paul is referring back to something he wrote previous to Romans 11: 26. Here are the points Paul made in Romans 11, prior to verse 26::

1-5. The Remnant of Israel (Old Covenant Israel) becomes the beginning of the "Good Olive Tree" "according to the election of grace"..

7-10. Israel has not obtained that which he seeketh for, but the election hath obtained it...bur rather through their fall salvation is come upon the Gentiles, ,

15-24, , some of the branches are broken off, but thou, the Gentiles, are grafted into the Good Olive Tree, implying that unbelieving Israel is broken off and believing Gentiles are grafted in...

.25 Blindness has happened to a part of Israel....

These four points that Paul makes in Romans 11 before verse 26 are at least a part of what he is referring back to in the beginning of Romans 11: 26, using the word houtós, in this way.

But even without the word houtós at the start of Romans 11: 26 common logic would require that what Paul says in Romans 11 before Romans 11: 26 has to be used in interpreting the meaning of Romans 11: 26. Paul also makes statements in Romans 9 and 10 which are relevant to the meaning of Romans 11: 26, especially verses 6-8 of Romans 9, and verse 12 in Romans 10.

However, the New International Version translated these first words in Romans 11: 26 as "and in this way all Israel will be saved. "  The Holman Christian Standard Bible also says for Romans 11: 26 " And in this way all Israel will be saved,"   The ESV or English Standard Version says "And in this way all Israel will be saved,"

I suspect that the old English translations, the Tyndale Translation, the Geneva Bible, like the King James Version, do not have "And in this way" at the beginning of Romans 11: 26.

The Tyndale New Testament says for Romans 11: 26, "and so all Israel shal be saved. "

The Geneva Bible for Romans 11: 26 has "And so all Israel shall be saved"

And the King James Version has the identical same translation of the first words of Romans 11: 26 as do the Tyndale and Geneva Bibles, which came before it, "And so all Israel shall be saved."

But this does not necessarily mean that the King James Version is not just as accurate and is sometimes more accurate in its translation of the Greek Textus Receptus  texts compared to the  three modern translations cited above, which have ""And in this way" at the start of Romans 11: 26


 
Title: Re: On the Greek Word Houtós In Romans 11: 26
Post by: Bladerunner on February 13, 2020, 04:58:45 pm
On the Greek Word Houtós In Romans 11: 26

In Romans Chapter 11, the Greek words at the beginning of Romans 11: 26, και ουτως πας ισραηλ σωθησεταικαι can be looked at carefully. The King James translation says "And so all Israel shall be saved"...." But what does ουτως mean? See: https://biblehub.com/greek/3779.htm "3779. houtó and houtós, Definition: in this way, thus, so, in this manner, like this . . .; in this manner, in this way (fashion), in accordance with this description (i.e. corresponding to what follows); in keeping with; along this line, in the manner spoken."..

In the beginning of Romans 11: 26 Paul is referring back to something he wrote previous to Romans 11: 26. Here are the points Paul made in Romans 11, prior to verse 26::

1-5. The Remnant of Israel (Old Covenant Israel) becomes the beginning of the "Good Olive Tree" "according to the election of grace"..

7-10. Israel has not obtained that which he seeketh for, but the election hath obtained it...bur rather through their fall salvation is come upon the Gentiles, ,

15-24, , some of the branches are broken off, but thou, the Gentiles, are grafted into the Good Olive Tree, implying that unbelieving Israel is broken off and believing Gentiles are grafted in...

.25 Blindness has happened to a part of Israel....

These four points that Paul makes in Romans 11 before verse 26 are at least a part of what he is referring back to in the beginning of Romans 11: 26, using the word houtós, in this way.

But even without the word houtós at the start of Romans 11: 26 common logic would require that what Paul says in Romans 11 before Romans 11: 26 has to be used in interpreting the meaning of Romans 11: 26. Paul also makes statements in Romans 9 and 10 which are relevant to the meaning of Romans 11: 26, especially verses 6-8 of Romans 9, and verse 12 in Romans 10.

However, the New International Version translated these first words in Romans 11: 26 as "and in this way all Israel will be saved. "  The Holman Christian Standard Bible also says for Romans 11: 26 " And in this way all Israel will be saved,"   The ESV or English Standard Version says "And in this way all Israel will be saved,"

I suspect that the old English translations, the Tyndale Translation, the Geneva Bible, like the King James Version, do not have "And in this way" at the beginning of Romans 11: 26.

The Tyndale New Testament says for Romans 11: 26, "and so all Israel shal be saved. "

The Geneva Bible for Romans 11: 26 has "And so all Israel shall be saved"

And the King James Version has the identical same translation of the first words of Romans 11: 26 as do the Tyndale and Geneva Bibles, which came before it, "And so all Israel shall be saved."

But this does not necessarily mean that the King James Version is not just as accurate and is sometimes more accurate in its translation of the Greek Textus Receptus  texts compared to the  three modern translations cited above, which have ""And in this way" at the start of Romans 11: 26

You speak of 'οὕτω' yet do not tell us what it is..... 'οὕτω' usually always appeared before a consonant and 'οὕτως' usually appeared before a vowel....In the bible (KJV) "SO" is used 164 times...

The KJV translates Strong's G3779 in the following manner: so (164x), thus (17x), even so (9x), on this wise (6x), likewise (4x), after this manner (3x), miscellaneous (10x).

hoútō, hoo' is the transliteration of the Greek word οὕτω

Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
οὕτω hoútō, hoo'-to; adverb from G3778; in this way (referring to what precedes or follows):—after that, after (in) this manner, as, even (so), for all that, like(-wise), no more, on this fashion(-wise), so (in like manner), thus, what.

The Remnant of Israel is yet to happen.l.Right now there are around 6-7 million Jews in Israel and around 7-8 million Jews around the world. There is to be a great gathering of the Jews to a peaceful Israel in the future fore Israel has not been nor are they now in a peaceful setting...

The remnant will be only 1/3 of the total population at the time of Daniel's 70th week. At the Half way point, The "GREAT TRIBULATION" as Jesus spoke of in Mat 24 will become reality. Satan will finally be thrown out of Heaven along with 1/3 of the angels that follow him during this time. The antichrist will have die with a would to the right hand and the head. Satan appears to take over his body, thus he seems to be raised from the dead. \

In Isaiah 28:14-18, we find out what God is going to let happen to the unbelievers of Israel. Satan/antichrist (son of perdition) will overrun  Jerusalem killing every Jew they can find.

As we see in Rev. 12, the believers in Judiah flee to the mountains to the south (jordan) at Petra where God/Jesus will feed/ water and protect them or 3.5 years until the Millennium begins.

These are the REMNANT OF ISRAEL, (all of Israel) as Paul speaks on in Romans 11:26..

Blade
Title: Re: On the Greek Word Houtós In Romans 11: 26
Post by: bernardpyron on February 14, 2020, 11:21:24 am
But even without the word houtós at the start of Romans 11: 26 common logic would require that what Paul says in Romans 11 before Romans 11: 26 has to be used in interpreting the meaning of Romans 11: 26. Paul also makes statements in Romans 9 and 10 which are relevant to the meaning of Romans 11: 26, especially verses 6-8 of Romans 9, and verse 12 in Romans 10.

Also, Paul uses the metaphor of the olive tree in Romans 11, and writes about  the good olive tree in Romans 11: 24.  He does not say in an explicit way in Romans 11: 15-24 that all who are in the Good Olive Tree - Elect Jews and Believing Gentiles grafted in -  can be considered as Israel of the New Covenant.  But the unity between believing Jews and believing Gentiles which Paul affirms in Ephesians 2: 12-22, in Galatians 3: 26-29, and Romans 10: 12 would support such a doctrine.  There is a disagreement between dispensationalists and followers of Reformation Theology, including Calvinists, on whether Paul in Galatians  15-16 is teaching that the "new creature" there is in effect elect Jews and elect Gentiles joined together in what he calls the "Israel of God."

Dispensationalism starts from the peculiar postulate that "Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne so that in eternity, '...never the twain, Israel and church, shall meet." Lewis S. Chafer

The two peoples, two programs postulate of dispensationalism is not in New Testament scripture.

John Calvin says of Romans 11: 26 that "Paul intended here to set forth the completion of the kingdom of Christ, which is by no means to be confined to the Jews, but is to include the whole world. The same manner of speaking we find in Galatians 6:16. The Israel of God is what he calls the Church, gathered alike from Jews and Gentiles; and he sets the people, thus collected from their dispersion, in opposition to the carnal children of Abraham, who had departed from his faith. "
Title: Re: On the Greek Word Houtós In Romans 11: 26
Post by: Bladerunner on February 14, 2020, 07:25:37 pm
But even without the word houtós at the start of Romans 11: 26 common logic would require that what Paul says in Romans 11 before Romans 11: 26 has to be used in interpreting the meaning of Romans 11: 26. Paul also makes statements in Romans 9 and 10 which are relevant to the meaning of Romans 11: 26, especially verses 6-8 of Romans 9, and verse 12 in Romans 10.

Also, Paul uses the metaphor of the olive tree in Romans 11, and writes about  the good olive tree in Romans 11: 24.  He does not say in an explicit way in Romans 11: 15-24 that all who are in the Good Olive Tree - Elect Jews and Believing Gentiles grafted in -  can be considered as Israel of the New Covenant.  But the unity between believing Jews and believing Gentiles which Paul affirms in Ephesians 2: 12-22, in Galatians 3: 26-29, and Romans 10: 12 would support such a doctrine.  There is a disagreement between dispensationalists and followers of Reformation Theology, including Calvinists, on whether Paul in Galatians  15-16 is teaching that the "new creature" there is in effect elect Jews and elect Gentiles joined together in what he calls the "Israel of God."

Dispensationalism stats from the peculiar postulate that "Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne so that in eternity, '...never the twain, Israel and church, shall meet." Lewis S. Chafer

The two peoples, two programs postulate of dispensationalism is not in New Testament scripture.

John Calvin says of Romans 11: 26 that "Paul intended here to set forth the completion of the kingdom of Christ, which is by no means to be confined to the Jews, but is to include the whole world. The same manner of speaking we find in Galatians 6:16. The Israel of God is what he calls the Church, gathered alike from Jews and Gentiles; and he sets the people, thus collected from their dispersion, in opposition to the carnal children of Abraham, who had departed from his faith. "

Israel of GOD means the Jewish Believers in Jesus. Yes, they are part of the Church (body of Christ) as any Gentile is if they are believers in Jesus.

Blade