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Theology, Anthropology & Archaeology => BIBLE STUDY - From The Late Lori Bolinger => Topic started by: guest24 on December 09, 2019, 09:55:17 am


Title: What is the difference between being born again and salvation?
Post by: guest24 on December 09, 2019, 09:55:17 am
I see salvation as a change in relationship from enemy of God to child of God.  Because of this belief I see salvation as a process.  A process that begins with being born (belief of the heart) and we could add an element here of taking our first breath (faith) and the journey that leads us to our inheritance if we persevere and obey and grow. (which are part of our new status)



Others here, seem to want to fight about the difference elements of this changed relationship...so what do you think the difference is between being born again and salvation?
Title: Re: What is the difference between being born again and salvation?
Post by: guest58 on December 09, 2019, 01:32:51 pm
Agreed:


Salvation in full is the complete process of creating HIS people as holy from their election to their full sanctification. Rebirth is the start of the earthly portion whereby an elect sinner's free will is restored and their training in righteousness can begin. It ends with their being heaven ready and free of the liability of being pulled up with the judgment of the tares.

Title: Re: What is the difference between being born again and salvation?
Post by: guest8 on December 09, 2019, 07:07:49 pm
Agreed:


Salvation in full is the complete process of creating HIS people as holy from their election to their full sanctification. Rebirth is the start of the earthly portion whereby an elect sinner's free will is restored and their training in righteousness can begin. It ends with their being heaven ready and free of the liability of being pulled up with the judgment of the tares.


Well......Salvation by defintion is " deliverance from the power and effects of sin"

Rebirth is regeneration of the Heart and Mind where Jesus places His laws into them........


From that, I will let you two FREE-WILL(ers) hash it out..

Blade
Title: Re: What is the difference between being born again and salvation?
Post by: guest24 on December 10, 2019, 10:59:54 am
I disagree with your definitions but that might be the core difference in free will and election doctrine...or at least one of the biggies
Title: Re: What is the difference between being born again and salvation?
Post by: guest8 on December 10, 2019, 06:45:30 pm
I disagree with your definitions but that might be the core difference in free will and election doctrine...or at least one of the biggies

those definitions did not have anything to do with Free-WIll.....which by the way means....."a person's own choice or decision "   
Blade   
Title: Re: What is the difference between being born again and salvation?
Post by: guest24 on December 11, 2019, 07:43:39 am
I disagree with your definitions but that might be the core difference in free will and election doctrine...or at least one of the biggies

those definitions did not have anything to do with Free-WIll.....which by the way means....."a person's own choice or decision "   
Blade   
I don't know what you mean as it applies to what I said but okay.
Title: Re: What is the difference between being born again and salvation?
Post by: guest58 on December 11, 2019, 02:15:40 pm
Well......Salvation by defintion is " deliverance from the power and effects of sin"

Rebirth is regeneration of the Heart and Mind where Jesus places His laws into them........


From that, I will let you two FREE-WILL(ers) hash it out..

Blade


I accept these definitions because I do not believe sinners have a free will. We lost our free will when we chose by our free will to sin and we regain our free will when we are freed from the enslaving addiction to sin by our rebirth.


That our free will is an absolute necessity to keep GOD at arm's length from the creation of evil and to make us truly guilty for being sinful, the fact that we are born sinners makes the doctrine that we had a pre-earth existence in the Spirit world where we chose to become sinners in HIS sight is obviously true.
Title: Re: What is the difference between being born again and salvation?
Post by: guest116 on December 12, 2019, 12:35:28 am
Okay, I am at a big disadvantage here because I thought they were both the same basically the same. 

 Let's look at me,  I was forced into religion and moved away from it at the same time and lived a very sinful life.  Then in the middle of my military career after chaplain assistant training as an additional duty I started a journey back to faith and belief.   So what am I really going through based on all of your discussions above?

Title: Re: What is the difference between being born again and salvation?
Post by: guest24 on December 12, 2019, 08:18:01 am
Okay, I am at a big disadvantage here because I thought they were both the same basically the same. 

 Let's look at me,  I was forced into religion and moved away from it at the same time and lived a very sinful life.  Then in the middle of my military career after chaplain assistant training as an additional duty I started a journey back to faith and belief.   So what am I really going through based on all of your discussions above?
To me, born again is a moment in time whereas salvation is a process...look at it as being born is a moment in time, the beginning of life but life itself is not being born it is just the beginning of life.  I see salvation and being born again the same way and what I have seen in discussions is that many people don't understand this concept which messes them up with other doctrinal discussions such as faith alone or works....or even Ted's assertions of pre life.
Title: Re: What is the difference between being born again and salvation?
Post by: guest58 on December 12, 2019, 03:05:49 pm
Okay, I am at a big disadvantage here because I thought they were both the same basically the same. 

 Let's look at me,  I was forced into religion and moved away from it at the same time and lived a very sinful life.  Then in the middle of my military career after chaplain assistant training as an additional duty I started a journey back to faith and belief.   So what am I really going through based on all of your discussions above?
You are probably being trained in righteousness, Heb 12:5-11...so hang onto your hat!
Title: Re: What is the difference between being born again and salvation?
Post by: guest8 on December 12, 2019, 05:36:07 pm
Okay, I am at a big disadvantage here because I thought they were both the same basically the same. 

 Let's look at me,  I was forced into religion and moved away from it at the same time and lived a very sinful life.  Then in the middle of my military career after chaplain assistant training as an additional duty I started a journey back to faith and belief.   So what am I really going through based on all of your discussions above?
You are probably being trained in righteousness, Heb 12:5-11...so hang onto your hat!

being reborn is GOD placing His Laws in your heart and mind thus getting you to search our Jesus Christ....Salvation is different and is always after the "Calling"

Blade
Title: Re: What is the difference between being born again and salvation?
Post by: guest24 on December 16, 2019, 09:52:56 am
Blade I am not following you can you clarify
Title: Re: What is the difference between being born again and salvation?
Post by: patrick jane on June 08, 2020, 11:32:36 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGwYRepFqas&list=WL&index=19&t=0s
Title: Re: What is the difference between being born again and salvation?
Post by: guest58 on June 09, 2020, 11:04:02 am
   So what am I really going through based on all of your discussions above?
Salvation is the whole process of being changed from an elect sinner to a holy, sanctified elect, heaven ready. It starts with being given the promise of election to be His heavenly Bride before the world was founded and to having this promise fulfilled in us AFTER we chose to be sinful in HIS sight, by being sown, ie, planted, into the world of mankind, Matt 13:36-39.

Rebirth is the release from the grip of sin clouding our minds and desires unto a life of faith with a restored free will unto sanctification by our training in righteousness, Heb 12:5-11.



Title: Re: What is the difference between being born again and salvation?
Post by: patrick jane on June 09, 2020, 11:18:36 am
   So what am I really going through based on all of your discussions above?
Salvation is the whole process of being changed from an elect sinner to a holy, sanctified elect, heaven ready. It starts with being given the promise of election to be His heavenly Bride before the world was founded and to having this promise fulfilled in us AFTER we chose to be sinful in HIS sight, by being sown, ie, planted, into the world of mankind, Matt 13:36-39.

Rebirth is the release from the grip of sin clouding our minds and desires unto a life of faith with a restored free will unto sanctification by our training in righteousness, Heb 12:5-11.
Great post Ted T.
Title: Re: What is the difference between being born again and salvation?
Post by: guest116 on June 09, 2020, 11:08:56 pm
So reading all this and trying to follow this, salvation and reborn are different but you need both in some order to get to the ultimate goal?

So if you have a calling and you are following  and pursuing it, where are you at?
Title: Re: What is the difference between being born again and salvation?
Post by: guest8 on June 10, 2020, 01:08:11 am
So reading all this and trying to follow this, salvation and reborn are different but you need both in some order to get to the ultimate goal?

So if you have a calling and you are following  and pursuing it, where are you at?

God tells us that He Predestined and Calls those whom He predestines.....For those who He calls, He justifies and whom He justifies, He glorifies...

(1) He calls---- regeneration of your Heart and mind. which will allow you to seek Jesus Christ....

(2) This call is different from His calling of a person to become a missionary or a priest/preacher, etc.

(3).Also this "Call" is a forbearance to Rom 10:17 . Hearing the WORD of Jesus brings the faith in Jesus Christ.

(4) Calls is separate even in the scripture from Justified. God's Words

(5) The "Call"-regeneration (Born again) may or may not happen near the same time of Salvation(justification). In fact it could take years for Salvation to come about.

Blade
Title: Re: What is the difference between being born again and salvation?
Post by: guest116 on June 10, 2020, 01:19:17 am
So if you are lying clinically dead on operating table and while they are working to restore you, you see Christ that tells you it is not your time yet as you have work to do for Father, are you called or just lucky in more than the doctor's skills?

Does this then allow you to pursue salvation and more?
Title: Re: What is the difference between being born again and salvation?
Post by: guest8 on June 10, 2020, 09:18:17 am
So if you are lying clinically dead on operating table and while they are working to restore you, you see Christ that tells you it is not your time yet as you have work to do for Father, are you called or just lucky in more than the doctor's skills?

Does this then allow you to pursue salvation and more?
Having been there trying to save a person from death, you have touch on a very deep subject. As there are many types of clinical death, any revival is GOD's work and His Alone...It may be through the people who are trying to save them but it still up to Jesus.

But that is not what you are asking....You are asking if that person is "saved", "called"  or given a 2nd chance.

(1)..The unarguable fact is that this person has received a 2nd chance at life, taken from the grips of death itself.

(2) being called or saved is again something that I or YOU cannot answer. Only the person and His/her actions will tell.

I can tell you from My experience, being called (born again) being saved are two different events and do not necessarily happen within seconds or minutes of one another. Sometimes it takes years for this to happen...

In your question, you did not give us the information of the time in between the miracle event and the start of this work GOD wanted to him to do? Was it immediate or was it months and Years.

Rom 10:17 tells us "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
 
However the verses 8 through 16 gives context on why this is so.

Mark...In my opinion, a person saved from the jaws of death b Our Lord Jesus is given a 2nd chance not given to the majority of sinners. This is the only event I can speak about with certainty.

One other Item, Mark....We all have a specific number of days to live on this earth...We know not when or how our Harpazo will take place. There is one thing for certain. We will all be "On Time" for this event.

Thanks for the conversation, be safe my Brother

Blade





Title: Re: What is the difference between being born again and salvation?
Post by: guest116 on June 10, 2020, 10:32:08 pm
The surgery was in April 2002.   His action that led me to believe he was starting on his journey so to speak was very gradual. It came to be apparent he was on a mission at least to me in 2011 ish.  While I still think there is confusion and fear to go all out on his part.

I am no expert but I think he was called, has a calling, has been reborn after that experience on operating table and I firmly believe he has been saved.

One interesting side note.  He tried to tell any who would listen after his surgery.  Only his 88 yr old mom, the doctor and his wife would listen, everyone else laughed at him.  That I think is why it took so long for him to start his journey.
Title: Re: What is the difference between being born again and salvation?
Post by: patrick jane on July 29, 2020, 09:45:08 am
(https://www-images.christianitytoday.com/images/117904.jpg?w=940)
https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2020/july-august/steven-lawson-new-life-christ-born-again.html








Even Among Well-Meaning Christians, ‘Born Again’ Is Often Misunderstood








Recapturing the meaning of a much-stereotyped phrase.


Being called a “born-again Christian” can mean many things to many people. For some, it means you are a Bible-thumping fundamentalist or a political conservative. For others, it means you were converted at a Billy Graham crusade. Countless stereotypes have created endless confusion.

In New Life in Christ: What Really Happens When You’re Born Again and Why It Matters, Steven J. Lawson moves beyond today’s (mis)use of the phrase to recapture its biblical meaning and extraordinary significance for the Christian life. With pastoral care, he takes us back to that eerie late-night encounter between Jesus and Nicodemus in John 3. Nicodemus, like many today, was as religious as they come. By today’s standards, he would be the popular pastor or professor everyone knows and respects. That makes Jesus’ words of warning so surprising: “No one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again” (v. 3). Nicodemus admits he has no idea what Jesus is talking about: “How can someone be born when they are old? Surely they cannot enter into their mother’s womb a second time to be born!” (v. 4).

As the teacher of Israel, Nicodemus should have remembered Moses and the prophets, who used several metaphors to describe this second birth. Moses told the people of Israel they needed God to circumcise their hearts (Deut. 30:6), and Ezekiel promised Israel that one day God himself would act as a surgeon, removing the dead heart of stone and implanting a heart that beats (Ezek. 36:26). Jesus may move the metaphor to the delivery room, but the message is the same: Unless the Spirit of God does something supernatural, we remain spiritually lifeless.

Unfortunately, even the most well-meaning Christians today can get this miracle backwards. We think the new birth is something we must do. But that misses the miracle of it all. It also misses the meaning of the metaphor: Birth is something that happens to us, not something we accomplish. How much more so with matters of the heart? Lawson stresses that the new birth is the work of the Spirit, not the work of any sinner. Jesus says as much when he tells Nicodemus that one must be born of the Spirit (John 3:5). But like the wind, the Spirit is sovereign, blowing wherever it wishes (v. 8).

That might sound unnerving to evangelicals today, in that it pictures the new birth as something other than an offer we can choose to accept or reject. But Jesus is in the habit of turning preconceived assumptions upside down, even if they belong to Israel’s most renowned scholar. The reason Jesus’ words are so shocking is this: Like babies in the womb, we can do nothing to bring about this new birth. It is not something we initiate. Nor is it a cooperative effort between us and God. It is completely his doing, a phenomenon so unnatural it can only be attributed to the Holy Spirit.

As Lawson reminds us, accepting Jesus is not what triggers the new birth, as if God sits around waiting—hoping!—that somebody somewhere will believe so that he can make that person alive. In reality, apart from new life, we will never believe. Our depravity is that pervasive, sin’s grip that enslaving. In another audacious exercise in ticking off Israel’s religious experts, Jesus tells the Pharisees not only that they won’t come to him for life but also that they can’t (John 6:44, 65). Not unless Jesus draws them, that is; until then, they will never believe in the Father who sent him.

The fact that the new birth produces faith and repentance, rather than stemming from them, is truly liberating. We do not preach or evangelize as if we must somehow work the sinner over until he or she is willed into the kingdom. We are more like the prophet Ezekiel: God tells us to speak words of life to a valley of dry bones. They are dead until they begin to rattle and come alive (Ezek. 37).

The point is, let’s remember who the true miracle worker is: God, not us. We tell others about King Jesus, and then we wait and watch the kingdom fill up, as the Spirit who created the cosmos creates new life in hearts otherwise dead in darkness. No, we can’t see the wind. But we know its power because we can see its effects: a kingdom full of new life in Christ.







Matthew Barrett is associate professor of Christian theology at Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, as well as the executive editor of Credo Magazine. He is the author of many books, including None Greater: The Undomesticated Attributes of God (Baker Books).
Title: Re: What is the difference between being born again and salvation?
Post by: guest58 on July 30, 2020, 09:01:05 pm
So reading all this and trying to follow this, salvation and reborn are different but you need both in some order to get to the ultimate goal?

So if you have a calling and you are following  and pursuing it, where are you at?


Ummm, to be saved one must have been given the promise of salvation by being elected to be HIS bride and then having the fulfillment of that promise of election in your sinful life which includes a rebirth...
 
Title: Re: What is the difference between being born again and salvation?
Post by: guest58 on July 30, 2020, 09:04:00 pm
Does this then allow you to pursue salvation and more?
Salvation does not have to be pursued; it is a given you will receive all it entails if you are elect. 
Title: Re: What is the difference between being born again and salvation?
Post by: guest24 on July 31, 2020, 07:33:59 am
Does this then allow you to pursue salvation and more?
Salvation does not have to be pursued; it is a given you will receive all it entails if you are elect.
Philippians 2:12
Title: Re: What is the difference between being born again and salvation?
Post by: patrick jane on October 02, 2020, 12:03:39 pm
 :D
Title: Re: What is the difference between being born again and salvation?
Post by: guest8 on October 02, 2020, 10:27:35 pm
:D

will agree with the original post.

Blade
Title: Re: What is the difference between being born again and salvation?
Post by: patrick jane on May 27, 2021, 05:21:25 pm
:D

will agree with the original post.

Blade
;D