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CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY with BLADERUNNER and LORI BOLINGER => Theology With Lori Bolinger (CLICK HERE) => Topic started by: Lori Bolinger on December 03, 2019, 11:29:37 am

Title: I Cor. 12 which gifts are for woman who are not allowed to teach men?
Post by: Lori Bolinger on December 03, 2019, 11:29:37 am
1 Corinthians 12 King James Version (KJV)

12 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

Once again I was reprimanded for being a woman who know enough scripture that when I talk with men they might learn something...I am very tired of that argument so let's look at the list here of gifts that are given to the body by the HS....I want to point out two things before I open this to discussion...1. the reason for the gifts is to edify and encourage the body...nothing here about what is and is not permitted for woman nor if the woman might teach something to a man. 2. and two look at verse 11...it is the Spirits choice and purpose.

So I am most interesting in how those who see woman as second class citizens in the church see this passage in relation to the role of woman but I will entertain other related discussion.

Before I post let me off another version for those who don't like the KJV this time from HCSB
1 Corinthians 12 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

12 Now concerning what comes from thepirit:[a] brothers, I do not want you to be unaware. 2 You know that when you were pagans, you used to be led off to the idols that could not speak. 3 Therefore I am informing you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

4 Now there are different gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are different ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are different activities, but the same God activates each gift in each person. 7 A demonstration of the Spirit is given to each person to produce what is beneficial:



8 to one is given a message of wisdom
through the Spirit,
to another, a message of knowledge
by the same Spirit,
9 to another, faith by the same Spirit,
to another, gifts of healing by the one Spirit,
10 to another, the performing of miracles,
to another, prophecy,
to another, distinguishing between spirits,
to another, different kinds of languages,
to another, interpretation of languages.



11 But one and the same Spirit is active in all these, distributing to each person as He wills.



It seems to me that 1. God is clear that these gifts are NOT restricted to men alone and 2. that God chooses who He wants to use a specific gift thus negating the traditional interpretation of women keeping silent...
Title: Re: I Cor. 12 which gifts are for woman who are not allowed to teach men?
Post by: Bladerunner on December 05, 2019, 07:08:11 pm
1 Corinthians 12 King James Version (KJV)

12 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

Once again I was reprimanded for being a woman who know enough scripture that when I talk with men they might learn something...I am very tired of that argument so let's look at the list here of gifts that are given to the body by the HS....I want to point out two things before I open this to discussion...1. the reason for the gifts is to edify and encourage the body...nothing here about what is and is not permitted for woman nor if the woman might teach something to a man. 2. and two look at verse 11...it is the Spirits choice and purpose.

So I am most interesting in how those who see woman as second class citizens in the church see this passage in relation to the role of woman but I will entertain other related discussion.

Before I post let me off another version for those who don't like the KJV this time from HCSB
1 Corinthians 12 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

12 Now concerning what comes from thepirit:[a] brothers, I do not want you to be unaware. 2 You know that when you were pagans, you used to be led off to the idols that could not speak. 3 Therefore I am informing you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

4 Now there are different gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are different ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are different activities, but the same God activates each gift in each person. 7 A demonstration of the Spirit is given to each person to produce what is beneficial:



8 to one is given a message of wisdom
through the Spirit,
to another, a message of knowledge
by the same Spirit,
9 to another, faith by the same Spirit,
to another, gifts of healing by the one Spirit,
10 to another, the performing of miracles,
to another, prophecy,
to another, distinguishing between spirits,
to another, different kinds of languages,
to another, interpretation of languages.



11 But one and the same Spirit is active in all these, distributing to each person as He wills.



It seems to me that 1. God is clear that these gifts are NOT restricted to men alone and 2. that God chooses who He wants to use a specific gift thus negating the traditional interpretation of women keeping silent...

For those who are truely saved and Have the Holy Spirit within them, they have all seven Spirits of GOD with them....Yes, there are seven of the Holy Spirit.

Blade
Title: Re: I Cor. 12 which gifts are for woman who are not allowed to teach men?
Post by: Lori Bolinger on December 06, 2019, 08:30:31 am
Blade, how did you answer the question?  For a woman to be living in the gifts of the spirit, she would have to be teaching men....your claim no matter what scripture teaches is that women are not to teach men...so are the gifts only for men?
Title: Re: I Cor. 12 which gifts are for woman who are not allowed to teach men?
Post by: Bladerunner on December 06, 2019, 08:20:45 pm
Blade, how did you answer the question?  For a woman to be living in the gifts of the spirit, she would have to be teaching men....your claim no matter what scripture teaches is that women are not to teach men...so are the gifts only for men?

I did not LORI...I said you could not teach (be an Elder or Pastor in a CHurch setting)......Please get it straight.

Blade
Title: Re: I Cor. 12 which gifts are for woman who are not allowed to teach men?
Post by: Lori Bolinger on December 09, 2019, 09:12:53 am
Blade, how did you answer the question?  For a woman to be living in the gifts of the spirit, she would have to be teaching men....your claim no matter what scripture teaches is that women are not to teach men...so are the gifts only for men?

I did not LORI...I said you could not teach (be an Elder or Pastor in a CHurch setting)......Please get it straight.

Blade
and what I am saying is that all these gifts involve teaching the body so which ones are woman allowed and which one's are they not?
Title: Re: I Cor. 12 which gifts are for woman who are not allowed to teach men?
Post by: Bladerunner on December 09, 2019, 07:12:00 pm
Blade, how did you answer the question?  For a woman to be living in the gifts of the spirit, she would have to be teaching men....your claim no matter what scripture teaches is that women are not to teach men...so are the gifts only for men?

I did not LORI...I said you could not teach (be an Elder or Pastor in a CHurch setting)......Please get it straight.

Blade
and what I am saying is that all these gifts involve teaching the body so which ones are woman allowed and which one's are they not?


 Lori.... You can go into any  verse in the Bible and make it say anything you want it to... The words of GOD were straight forward 1 TIM 2:12..(KJV)..."But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

If you do not want to go by HIS word....so be it, He is the only ONE you have to answer to

Blade
Title: Re: I Cor. 12 which gifts are for woman who are not allowed to teach men?
Post by: Lori Bolinger on December 10, 2019, 10:58:20 am
as I showed in my study there are things in the context of that passage that give us reason to question the traditional interpretation but that passage off the table, how can a woman live in any of the gifts without teaching a man?  So are you then suggesting that the gifts of the spirit are only for men and no woman is allowed to be given a spiritual gift by the Living God for it would violate her teaching a man?  What then do you do with the last part of the verse we are currently talking about that says God gifts to whom He chooses not whom we interpret He should and shouldn't give gifts to?
Title: Re: I Cor. 12 which gifts are for woman who are not allowed to teach men?
Post by: Bladerunner on December 10, 2019, 06:53:05 pm
as I showed in my study there are things in the context of that passage that give us reason to question the traditional interpretation but that passage off the table, how can a woman live in any of the gifts without teaching a man?  So are you then suggesting that the gifts of the spirit are only for men and no woman is allowed to be given a spiritual gift by the Living God for it would violate her teaching a man?  What then do you do with the last part of the verse we are currently talking about that says God gifts to whom He chooses not whom we interpret He should and shouldn't give gifts to?

It seems you are trying to make this personal between you and Jesus.  Those words spoken in 1 TIM 2:12 pertained to the Church administration/eldership/pastoring, etc..   not outside of the church...I guess He knew about the feminine revolution before it happened.

If you want to teach men in any other setting,,have at it...If you teach in the Church then you run the risk of going against the word of JESUS....

Hope your asthma is getting better...


Blade
Title: Re: I Cor. 12 which gifts are for woman who are not allowed to teach men?
Post by: Lori Bolinger on December 11, 2019, 07:42:42 am
as I showed in my study there are things in the context of that passage that give us reason to question the traditional interpretation but that passage off the table, how can a woman live in any of the gifts without teaching a man?  So are you then suggesting that the gifts of the spirit are only for men and no woman is allowed to be given a spiritual gift by the Living God for it would violate her teaching a man?  What then do you do with the last part of the verse we are currently talking about that says God gifts to whom He chooses not whom we interpret He should and shouldn't give gifts to?

It seems you are trying to make this personal between you and Jesus.
everything in scripture is personal between the Living God and my relationship with HIm, why shouldn't it be?  It it isn't personal, we won't obey now will we?
Quote
  Those words spoken in 1 TIM 2:12 pertained to the Church administration/eldership/pastoring, etc..   not outside of the church...I guess He knew about the feminine revolution before it happened.
1. you have NOT evidenced that and 2. you are not answering the question since the passage in question is dealing with the edifying of the church, not the world at all.  2. I personally do not think woman pastors is a good thing, however, after study of the passages, I am okay with allowing God to choose whom He will to do what He wants done without trying to argue with Him over whether or not He can choose to use a woman.
Quote


If you want to teach men in any other setting,,have at it...If you teach in the Church then you run the risk of going against the word of JESUS....
but that is why I am asking the "traditional women keep silent crowd" about this passage since it says that the gifts are for the church and thus cannot be for a woman if they are not to teach, yet God says in the same passage that He uses whom He chooses and nothing about gender or not giving woman these gifts...so are the gifts for men only or is the traditional understanding, maybe, just maybe a bit off?!? LOL you hold too tight to your traditions when you can't even talk about why you believe as you do
Quote


Hope your asthma is getting better...


Blade[/color]
yes and no..it's a reaction to an asthma med meaning that until it is out of my system (at least a week) I will be having issues.  Thanks for hoping for it to be better.
Title: Re: I Cor. 12 which gifts are for woman who are not allowed to teach men?
Post by: Bladerunner on December 13, 2019, 07:25:05 am
as I showed in my study there are things in the context of that passage that give us reason to question the traditional interpretation but that passage off the table, how can a woman live in any of the gifts without teaching a man?  So are you then suggesting that the gifts of the spirit are only for men and no woman is allowed to be given a spiritual gift by the Living God for it would violate her teaching a man?  What then do you do with the last part of the verse we are currently talking about that says God gifts to whom He chooses not whom we interpret He should and shouldn't give gifts to?

It seems you are trying to make this personal between you and Jesus.
everything in scripture is personal between the Living God and my relationship with HIm, why shouldn't it be?  It it isn't personal, we won't obey now will we?
Quote
  Those words spoken in 1 TIM 2:12 pertained to the Church administration/eldership/pastoring, etc..   not outside of the church...I guess He knew about the feminine revolution before it happened.
1. you have NOT evidenced that and 2. you are not answering the question since the passage in question is dealing with the edifying of the church, not the world at all.  2. I personally do not think woman pastors is a good thing, however, after study of the passages, I am okay with allowing God to choose whom He will to do what He wants done without trying to argue with Him over whether or not He can choose to use a woman.
Quote


If you want to teach men in any other setting,,have at it...If you teach in the Church then you run the risk of going against the word of JESUS....
but that is why I am asking the "traditional women keep silent crowd" about this passage since it says that the gifts are for the church and thus cannot be for a woman if they are not to teach, yet God says in the same passage that He uses whom He chooses and nothing about gender or not giving woman these gifts...so are the gifts for men only or is the traditional understanding, maybe, just maybe a bit off?!? LOL you hold too tight to your traditions when you can't even talk about why you believe as you do
Quote


Hope your asthma is getting better...


Blade[/color]
yes and no..it's a reaction to an asthma med meaning that until it is out of my system (at least a week) I will be having issues.  Thanks for hoping for it to be better.

Goodmorning Lori. pray this finds you better than the other day.

I was going over our conversations and it occurred to me that we have been talking on two different levels.   My replies are based upon the first four disciplines of interpretation and it seems your interpretations are based on the last discipline. (Practical). I do not use this as I do not lead a flock as a pastor or church leader does. Practicality as you know uses the scriptures to indicate how it affects ones life on a day-to-day basis.....

I will in future conversations will apply this in what you are saying and try to understand your need to fit all scripture to our lives.

Blade



Title: Re: I Cor. 12 which gifts are for woman who are not allowed to teach men?
Post by: Lori Bolinger on December 16, 2019, 09:51:37 am
Blade, I had to laugh because if we cannot apply the practical to our lives, how can we live out Christ?  I Peter 2:12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

If we don't apply what we learn to our lives, we cannot live out the command in I Peter 2:12 which I have a huge problem with....not only that but I believe that scripture interprets scripture for us...iow's is consistent in what it says.