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CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY with BLADERUNNER, LORI BOLINGER and BILLY EVMUR => Theology With Lori Bolinger (CLICK HERE) => Topic started by: Lori Bolinger on May 27, 2019, 10:28:17 am

Title: Can we Love without being saved first?
Post by: Lori Bolinger on May 27, 2019, 10:28:17 am
Many people take the stand that people can love without God...that is to say that they can show kindness, grace, mercy, etc. without God.
Others take the stand that Love, real Love is from God and we can only Love with His power.i

In light of I Cor. 13 especially the highlighted portion I would have to say that we cannot really Love without God but there is more to the discussion than that, for Love has a goal and that goal is reconciliation first to God and then to one another....the unsaved person cannot share this goal for the unsaved do not care if we are reconciled with God or not. What are you alls thoughts?

I Corinthians 13:
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
Title: Re: Can we Love without being saved first?
Post by: Ted T. on May 27, 2019, 12:53:49 pm
we cannot really Love without God...


imCo
Limited love can be seen as real love but...limited. Pure love has no adulteration in it at all. Earthly love, no matter how strong and self sacrificing is tainted, adulterated, debased by the sinfulness of the  person. It is not pure but every decision, loving or not, has a part that is sinful, is self serving, is looking to sin for pleasure or profit.


I am looking forward to how this develops...
Title: Re: Can we Love without being saved first?
Post by: Lori Bolinger on May 27, 2019, 01:18:32 pm
we cannot really Love without God...


imCo
Limited love can be seen as real love but...limited. Pure love has no adulteration in it at all. Earthly love, no matter how strong and self sacrificing is tainted, adulterated, debased by the sinfulness of the  person. It is not pure but every decision, loving or not, has a part that is sinful, is self serving, is looking to sin for pleasure or profit.


I am looking forward to how this develops...
One of the things about Agape or real Love that many people do not know or think about is that it has a purpose.  The purpose of Love is reconciliation first to God and then to the rest of mankind.  The unsaved does not care about whether or not we are reconciled with God and others.
Title: Re: Can we Love without being saved first?
Post by: patrick jane on May 27, 2019, 07:13:48 pm
Many people take the stand that people can love without God...that is to say that they can show kindness, grace, mercy, etc. without God.
Others take the stand that Love, real Love is from God and we can only Love with His power.i

In light of I Cor. 13 especially the highlighted portion I would have to say that we cannot really Love without God but there is more to the discussion than that, for Love has a goal and that goal is reconciliation first to God and then to one another....the unsaved person cannot share this goal for the unsaved do not care if we are reconciled with God or not. What are you alls thoughts?

I Corinthians 13:
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
I'm unsure about love. I only know the love of my family now and probably ever. I have had close friends and several truly love me but it's not as though I'd notice. I know what love is because I have watched my mom and my dad with my half brother Aaron. I knew and saw and shared in the love of my grandparents, aunts uncles and cousins. These are the only people I deeply trust and for good reason.

I have prayed a lot to God to help me to love more and to show my love and compassion. It seems I have more compassion and love for strangers than my own family sometimes by my behavior. I really do love people, strangers and those I know and worked with. The problem with this world is you don't get the love back that you put in. That hurts my feelings or it USED TO. I don't think of return now.

I have never really been in love with a woman in the true sense. I know what love is in my mind but I never found it in a woman. So, my life is not the typical life of a 50 year old man. I am CONTENT though now and I'm not yearning or searching like in my younger years.

I also find it difficult to LOVE God and Jesus because all I can do is read about them and go by my "feelings" and thoughts. How do you love someone you've never met? Blessed are those who believe without seeing . . . But how do we LOVE without seeing and meeting Him?
Title: Re: Can we Love without being saved first?
Post by: Ted T. on May 27, 2019, 08:58:02 pm
I also find it difficult to LOVE God and Jesus because all I can do is read about them and go by my "feelings" and thoughts. How do you love someone you've never met? Blessed are those who believe without seeing . . . But how do we LOVE without seeing and meeting Him?


I do know what you mean...I am similarly experienced.  It was suggested to me that to survive Armageddon we had to be holy but it is during the thousand yrs of Satan being locked up that we learn to love...
Title: Re: Can we Love without being saved first?
Post by: Lori Bolinger on May 28, 2019, 07:18:08 am
Many people take the stand that people can love without God...that is to say that they can show kindness, grace, mercy, etc. without God.
Others take the stand that Love, real Love is from God and we can only Love with His power.i

In light of I Cor. 13 especially the highlighted portion I would have to say that we cannot really Love without God but there is more to the discussion than that, for Love has a goal and that goal is reconciliation first to God and then to one another....the unsaved person cannot share this goal for the unsaved do not care if we are reconciled with God or not. What are you alls thoughts?

I Corinthians 13:
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
I'm unsure about love. I only know the love of my family now and probably ever. I have had close friends and several truly love me but it's not as though I'd notice. I know what love is because I have watched my mom and my dad with my half brother Aaron. I knew and saw and shared in the love of my grandparents, aunts uncles and cousins. These are the only people I deeply trust and for good reason.

I have prayed a lot to God to help me to love more and to show my love and compassion. It seems I have more compassion and love for strangers than my own family sometimes by my behavior. I really do love people, strangers and those I know and worked with. The problem with this world is you don't get the love back that you put in. That hurts my feelings or it USED TO. I don't think of return now.

I have never really been in love with a woman in the true sense. I know what love is in my mind but I never found it in a woman. So, my life is not the typical life of a 50 year old man. I am CONTENT though now and I'm not yearning or searching like in my younger years.

I also find it difficult to LOVE God and Jesus because all I can do is read about them and go by my "feelings" and thoughts. How do you love someone you've never met? Blessed are those who believe without seeing . . . But how do we LOVE without seeing and meeting Him?
There are so many great things in this to talk about....the Love we are called to is Agape Love.  Some people will tell you this Love is separate from all the other Love words used in scripture like Phileo but it is really a combination of all of them.  It is a Love that is marked by all the things in I Cor. 13, the great Love chapter.

It's a Love that endures, has compassion, offers grace, knows no limitations.

I have a very dear friend.  I met him because we were sitting on stoops opposite one another.  I spoke to him out of kindness.  IOW's I was being kind to a stranger but in my heart, God had given me Love for this one I did not know.  Love does something and in that revelation, that friend, spoke back....it so happened that he was homesick for his Haiti home and meeting a "kind" person changed his life.  In fact, the last time we talked (a few weeks ago) he talked about how he can always trust me to be there for him even during a time of silence where we had lost contact with one another.  Love transforms LIVES!!!!!

But PJ, you showed us great Love and I am not sure you realize it.  It was a Love that transformed and transforms our lives and that is why Love is so important to the Christian life, because it is a transforming Love.
Title: Re: Can we Love without being saved first?
Post by: truthjourney on May 28, 2019, 07:30:57 am
Some scriptures that came to mind.

We know that God first loved us.
1John 4:19 Therefore we shall love God because he first loved us.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

1John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another, because love is from God, and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God, 8 Because God is love, and everyone who does not love does not know God. 9 In this the love of God is known to us: for God sent his only Son to the world so that it shall live by him.

1John 4:12 ...But if we love one another, God abides in us, and his love is fulfilled in us.
1John 4:20 But if a man will say, “I love God”, and he hates his brother, he is lying; for he who does not love his brother who is visible, how is it possible for him to love God who is invisible?

1John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God: when we love God and keep His commandments.

2 John 1:6 And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the very commandment you have heard from the beginning, that you must walk in love.

1Cor. 13:13 For there are these three things that endure: Faith, Hope and Love, but the greatest of these is Love.

1Cor. 16:14 And let all your dealings be with love.

1Pet. 4:8 Above all, love one another deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.

Gal. 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23Meekness, self-control: against such there is no law.

Everyone who loves (agape love) is born of God and knows God.

Phil. 1:6 being confident of this, that He who began a good work in you will continue to perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
Title: Re: Can we Love without being saved first?
Post by: patrick jane on June 16, 2019, 11:54:39 pm
What's Your Scientific Theory for Love...? (Scientism vs Biblical Truth)


7 minutes
https://youtu.be/wO4ydNlbQQE






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Title: Re: Can we Love without being saved first?
Post by: Grace_Accepted on June 18, 2019, 11:41:43 am
Many people take the stand that people can love without God...that is to say that they can show kindness, grace, mercy, etc. without God.
Others take the stand that Love, real Love is from God and we can only Love with His power.i

In light of I Cor. 13 especially the highlighted portion I would have to say that we cannot really Love without God but there is more to the discussion than that, for Love has a goal and that goal is reconciliation first to God and then to one another....the unsaved person cannot share this goal for the unsaved do not care if we are reconciled with God or not. What are you alls thoughts?

I Corinthians 13:
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

1 John 4:19
We love because he first loved us.

This is agape of course and how can we know agape without God?
Title: Re: Can we Love without being saved first?
Post by: Bladerunner on June 18, 2019, 04:21:08 pm
Many people take the stand that people can love without God...that is to say that they can show kindness, grace, mercy, etc. without God.
Others take the stand that Love, real Love is from God and we can only Love with His power.i

In light of I Cor. 13 especially the highlighted portion I would have to say that we cannot really Love without God but there is more to the discussion than that, for Love has a goal and that goal is reconciliation first to God and then to one another....the unsaved person cannot share this goal for the unsaved do not care if we are reconciled with God or not. What are you alls thoughts?

I Corinthians 13:
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

1 John 4:19
We love because he first loved us.

This is agape of course and how can we know agape without God?

[shadow=[=blue,left]Does a child just beginning the "age of Knowing" still love her parents or stop at this point until she is saved?

Of course, God loves the whole world. Thus As Grace-Accepted said, He loved us first.

Blade[/shadow]

Blade
Title: Re: Can we Love without being saved first?
Post by: patrick jane on June 29, 2019, 11:29:44 am
📺👀
Title: Re: Can we Love without being saved first?
Post by: patrick jane on July 11, 2019, 05:58:44 am
📺👀
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