Patrick Jane Forums | Theology, Anthropology, Conspiracy

Theology, Anthropology & Archaeology => EVANGELISM & THEOLOGY => Topic started by: Billy Evmur on May 26, 2019, 08:43:33 pm


Title: God wants you to prosper
Post by: Billy Evmur on May 26, 2019, 08:43:33 pm
Beloved I willest above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

Soul prosperity first then material and physical prosperity.

Seek ye FIRST the Kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you.
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: Bladerunner on May 26, 2019, 08:56:23 pm
Beloved I willest above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

Soul prosperity first then material and physical prosperity.

Seek ye FIRST the Kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you.


You sound like one of those prosperity preachers...YOU change allegiance.

Blade
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: Ted T. on May 26, 2019, 09:56:35 pm
Beloved I willest above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

Soul prosperity first then material and physical prosperity.

Seek ye FIRST the Kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you.
...added in heaven.

GOD wants us to be HOLY and willing to judge HIS enemies aka the tares so the judgement will finally take place. THEN we see some prosperity....Seeking your riches in the world is futile and against our Lord: Matt 6:19 Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.…
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: patrick jane on May 27, 2019, 04:40:45 am
God provides for His children and some are blessed with money, like me. Hah, NOT !!!
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: Billy Evmur on May 27, 2019, 07:14:45 am
Beloved I willest above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

Soul prosperity first then material and physical prosperity.

Seek ye FIRST the Kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you.


You sound like one of those prosperity preachers...YOU change allegiance.

Blade

If that is so then the prosperity doctrines sound very like the bible for I only quoted the scripture.

I have ALWAYS believed that God wants everybody to prosper. God never changes. He created man and placed him in a garden of great beauty and overflowing abundance.

That is God's will for man.
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: Billy Evmur on May 27, 2019, 07:27:20 am
Beloved I willest above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

Soul prosperity first then material and physical prosperity.

Seek ye FIRST the Kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you.
...added in heaven.

GOD wants us to be HOLY and willing to judge HIS enemies aka the tares so the judgement will finally take place. THEN we see some prosperity....Seeking your riches in the world is futile and against our Lord: Matt 6:19 Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.…

There is much to note here.

First, the golden key to prosperity is to not store up treasures on earth but to GIVE

"Give and shall be given unto you again, good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over shall men give into your bosom" "it is more blessed to give than to receive"

But.

I see that the great mass of Christians live a lifestyle built upon the principle of storing up treasure on earth. They have savings, big bank balances, the bigger the better. Investments, insurances etc

This is worldly prosperity. I don't say this particularly as a criticism or to condemn anyone ... but it is my observation.

There is Godly prosperity, that is when we [being a holy people] put God FIRST, put His gospel, and the preaching of it FIRST. 
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: Billy Evmur on May 27, 2019, 07:28:58 am
Beloved I willest above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

Soul prosperity first then material and physical prosperity.

Seek ye FIRST the Kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you.
...added in heaven.

GOD wants us to be HOLY and willing to judge HIS enemies aka the tares so the judgement will finally take place. THEN we see some prosperity....Seeking your riches in the world is futile and against our Lord: Matt 6:19 Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.…

No "added unto you" on earth ..."shall men give into your bosom"

"all these things" are the things heathens strive for what we shall eat, what shall we wear, wherewith shall we be sheltered?

THESE things shall be added unto us.
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: Billy Evmur on May 27, 2019, 07:31:48 am
God provides for His children and some are blessed with money, like me. Hah, NOT !!!

Prosperity is more than money ... God as our provider IS prosperity

God wants you to have GOOD things, do you believe that?
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: patrick jane on May 27, 2019, 06:56:32 pm
God provides for His children and some are blessed with money, like me. Hah, NOT !!!

Prosperity is more than money ... God as our provider IS prosperity

God wants you to have GOOD things, do you believe that?
Absolutely. God has always provided for me and my family and what God just did for me late last year has given me security in this messed up world and that's all I ever wanted in earth, to be safe and secure, simply meaning shelter and food and enough money to live on. I already have spiritual blessings and I'm seated with Christ in heavenly places. This is what I can do is be on forums and strive to spread the word of God and other truths that people should think about. I think I'm right where God wants me and doing what I love. I can't thank God enough.
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: patrick jane on June 12, 2019, 05:08:24 am
I concur with myself.
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: truthjourney on June 12, 2019, 06:49:15 am
Yes, God wants us to prosper especially spiritually.  :)
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: Bladerunner on June 12, 2019, 09:48:26 am
Yes, God wants us to prosper especially spiritually.  :)

With all caution, I say, Prosperity takes one away from GOD. Be very careful Here. One is not guaranteed anything including one more minute here on earth.

Blade
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: truthjourney on June 12, 2019, 01:14:44 pm
Yes, God wants us to prosper especially spiritually.  :)

With all caution, I say, Prosperity takes one away from GOD. Be very careful Here. One is not guaranteed anything including one more minute here on earth.

Blade
Yes I know. I didn't mean it that way.

I've already expressed my feelings about this on the other forum.
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: Bladerunner on June 12, 2019, 02:18:25 pm
Yes, God wants us to prosper especially spiritually.  :)

With all caution, I say, Prosperity takes one away from GOD. Be very careful Here. One is not guaranteed anything including one more minute here on earth.

Blade
Yes I know. I didn't mean it that way.

I've already expressed my feelings about this on the other forum.

Well, I am not on the other forum as are many others on this forum.

There are so many prosperity preachers out-there,,,to me that word has become a never-use word. Yes, Jesus wants to save all the world but?

Blade
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: truthjourney on June 12, 2019, 02:26:50 pm
Yes, God wants us to prosper especially spiritually.  :)

With all caution, I say, Prosperity takes one away from GOD. Be very careful Here. One is not guaranteed anything including one more minute here on earth.

Blade
Yes I know. I didn't mean it that way.

I've already expressed my feelings about this on the other forum.

Well, I am not on the other forum as are many others on this forum.

There are so many prosperity preachers out-there,,,to me that word has become a never-use word. Yes, Jesus wants to save all the world but?

Blade
I am definitely not among that group. I was trying to stress prospering spiritually as opposed to prospering with wealth.
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: Bladerunner on June 12, 2019, 03:15:14 pm
Yes, God wants us to prosper especially spiritually.  :)

With all caution, I say, Prosperity takes one away from GOD. Be very careful Here. One is not guaranteed anything including one more minute here on earth.

Blade
Yes I know. I didn't mean it that way.

I've already expressed my feelings about this on the other forum.

Well, I am not on the other forum as are many others on this forum.

There are so many prosperity preachers out-there,,,to me that word has become a never-use word. Yes, Jesus wants to save all the world but?

Blade
I am definitely not among that group. I was trying to stress prospering spiritually as opposed to prospering with wealth.

Thank you for adding clarity to this post.

Blade
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: Billy Evmur on June 16, 2019, 04:02:20 pm
Yes, God wants us to prosper especially spiritually.  :)

With all caution, I say, Prosperity takes one away from GOD. Be very careful Here. One is not guaranteed anything including one more minute here on earth.

Blade
Yes I know. I didn't mean it that way.

I've already expressed my feelings about this on the other forum.

We are not guaranteed. But we do have promises. And I really don't buy that prosperity takes us away from God ...greed will take us away from God for sure. Most bank robbers are poor.

If poverty is a blessing how come the poorest people of the world are not saved?

Poverty is a curse. It began when Adam sinned.
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: patrick jane on June 29, 2019, 11:28:29 am
Good thread
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: truthjourney on June 29, 2019, 10:05:24 pm
If poverty is a blessing how come the poorest people of the world are not saved?
How come so many Christians in the world who live in poverty and are poor are faithful even to their death? They endure severe persecution and refuse to renounce their faith and are willing to die for it.

Poverty and being poor does not equate to not being saved.





Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: Billy Evmur on July 03, 2019, 07:22:42 pm
Nobody said that it did.

What does it mean to be saved? what does it mean to be redeemed from the curse of the law?

What is God's will for us? as individuals as fellowships or churches? as the world wide BoC?

Why are testimonies given in the bible? why does God make promises?

What truly is God's mind in regards to our wellbeing

Are these questions we ought even to be asking?

What would being saved mean in India?

For heaven's sake does God CARE?

One day the people had followed Jesus out into a lonely place and when the time came to dismiss the people the bible says Jesus was concerned that they might faint along the way. Does God CARE about our physical wellbeing?

God instituted marriage and the family, did you know that? family is God's idea for man. It was in regard to family that God blessed Abraham. A family based society, any family based society totally depends upon God to prosper and bless.

God would not have ordained marriage and family unless He was able to provide for the same.

Prosperity has ALWAYS been God's will for mankind, why would it not be? In Eden there was PLENTY of prosperity, a full abundance. That's God's will for man.

God blessed Abraham, He blessed Abraham's children , He blessed the nation of Israel … when they walked with Him, God's will is to bless YOU.

Wherever did the teaching arise that God loves us when we are poor but hates us if we prosper? It is a Catholic teaching not a bible teaching. The Catholic governments kept the people poor and therefore subject while they engrandised themselves.

Sure God loves poor people, He will save them but then He will bye and bye lift them out of the extremes of poverty … that is what He has done in all the nations that have received the gospel and allowed the church.

Don't you know that is why America prospered? and Europe?

But all of God's blessings depend upon faith … if you believe it is God's will for you to be poor … how can God bless you?
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: Bladerunner on July 03, 2019, 07:58:05 pm
Nobody said that it did.

What does it mean to be saved? what does it mean to be redeemed from the curse of the law?

What is God's will for us? as individuals as fellowships or churches? as the world wide BoC?

Why are testimonies given in the bible? why does God make promises?

What truly is God's mind in regards to our wellbeing

Are these questions we ought even to be asking?

What would being saved mean in India?

For heaven's sake does God CARE?

One day the people had followed Jesus out into a lonely place and when the time came to dismiss the people the bible says Jesus was concerned that they might faint along the way. Does God CARE about our physical wellbeing?

God instituted marriage and the family, did you know that? family is God's idea for man. It was in regard to family that God blessed Abraham. A family based society, any family based society totally depends upon God to prosper and bless.

God would not have ordained marriage and family unless He was able to provide for the same.

Prosperity has ALWAYS been God's will for mankind, why would it not be? In Eden there was PLENTY of prosperity, a full abundance. That's God's will for man.

God blessed Abraham, He blessed Abraham's children , He blessed the nation of Israel … when they walked with Him, God's will is to bless YOU.

Wherever did the teaching arise that God loves us when we are poor but hates us if we prosper? It is a Catholic teaching not a bible teaching. The Catholic governments kept the people poor and therefore subject while they engrandised themselves.

Sure God loves poor people, He will save them but then He will bye and bye lift them out of the extremes of poverty … that is what He has done in all the nations that have received the gospel and allowed the church.

Don't you know that is why America prospered? and Europe?

But all of God's blessings depend upon faith … if you believe it is God's will for you to be poor … how can God bless you?

I turned my life over to Jesus Christ. What HE provides is good enough for me.

To Prosper is a loaded pistol and to many, they go ahead and pull the trigger. New car, New house, etc......until the point of no return is reached and Greed takes over.

Blade







Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: Billy Evmur on July 04, 2019, 05:00:12 am
You know God has certain titles in the bible, The Lord our Righteousness, the Lord our Healer, The Lord our Provider, the Lord our Deliverer, the Lord our Shepherd etc, as evangelicals we make much of the Lord our Righteousness and so we should but we don't say so much about the rest of it.

Has God then provided for you? taken care of you? gotten you out of scrapes? helped you out? then let the redeemed of the Lord say so.

God is good, His will for us is good.

Every gift and blessing that God gives us has a health warning on it.

I was once invited home to tea with a bunch of Plymouth Brethren of the more exclusive sort, rather like the American Amish, you know if they invite you to tea it is a sign of acceptance. They wanted to hear what I had to say about the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

And talking about gifts one brother said "ah I think if God used me in such a way I would be afraid I might become proud"

Well ... you know folks get proud even without gifts, say of healing or prophecy, in my view the whole idea of ministry without the unction of the Holy Ghost IS proud . People rely on their ability to tell a good story, make a telling point, just putting a sermon together.

When they have preached do they feel rather proud of themselves? if they pray well publicly, do they feel just a little bit smug? The pride is already there, the pride is there when we do a small thing, if we ever get to do a great thing the pride will grow in measure.

Isn't best to deal with the pride? take the problem head on, instead of covering it up by not taking responsibility, making it an excuse for holding back.

Prosperity certainly brings with it temptations, isn't better to deal with those issues of the heart that cause the temptation? They will be there now, just they are covered up by the fact that we are unable to indulge them.

Holiness and prosperity go together … I'm talking about GODLY PROSPERITY, I am not speaking about robbing banks or playing fast and loose in business.

When God prospers it is an expansion of YOU, what you are, what you believe. It enlarges your field, your influence. I mean as a church fellowship as well as individually.

People will want to talk about Jesus and about Paul and that is another debate to be had. As a rider to that I would say two things. Both Jesus and Paul knew how to abound as well as suffer want. And also in both Jesus and Paul it can be said they became poor to make others rich.

 
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: truthjourney on July 04, 2019, 06:50:09 am
Nobody said that it did.
You said that the poorest people of the world are not saved. Do you realize how many Christians there are who are poor even right here in the U.S.? And here you are saying that the poorest of people are not saved. How do you think your statement about them would make them feel? After all they've been through, all the suffering, yet they are still saved. Or is being poor a sin in your view? Does being poor mean that one is not saved?

Quote
What would being saved mean in India?
Why do you keep saying that? There are three million Christians in India. The conditions there are because of those in power. It is not because people aren't saved there.

Quote
For heaven's sake does God CARE?

We weren't promised a rose garden in this world. Jesus said that we would have suffering, problems and troubles in this world but to take heart because he has overcome the world.
John 16:33 I have spoken these things to you so that you shall have peace in me. You shall have suffering in the world, but take heart, I have overcome the world.”

He also said:
John 15:20 “Remember the word that I have spoken to you, that there is no servant greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will persecute you also; if they have kept my word, they will also keep yours.”

John 15:18 And if the world hates you, know that it hated me before you.”

Matt. 6:33But seek first the Kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.
34Therefore you shall not be concerned about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be concerned for itself. A day's own trouble is sufficient for it.

Matt. 6:11 Give us this day our daily bread.

Quote
But all of God's blessings depend upon faith … if you believe it is God's will for you to be poor … how can God bless you?
First of all, I haven't said that it is God's will for me or anyone to be poor. There's a difference between getting what I might want and what I need. He will provide what I need and he has or else I wouldn't be alive right now. I certainly wouldn't have been able to survive what I've been through without God's help and blessing.

I think the real question is what kind of blessings do we expect from God. What blessings really matter and are most important. We need to see the big picture and not just this temporary life here in this world.

Matthew 6:19-21 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

James 2:5 Listen, my beloved brothers, has not God chosen those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom, which he has promised to those who love him?

Proverbs 16:16 How much better to get wisdom than gold! To get understanding is to be chosen rather than silver.

Philippians 4:19
And my God will supply every need of yours according to his riches in glory in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, ...

2 Corinthians 6:9-10 As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and behold, we live; as punished, and yet not killed; as sorrowful, yet always rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, yet possessing everything.

Mark 8:34-37 And calling the crowd to him with his disciples, he said to them, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake and the gospel's will save it. For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul? For what can a man give in return for his soul?

Matthew 19:23-25 And Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly, I say to you, only with difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”

Matthew 8:19-20 And a scribe came up and said to him, “Teacher, I will follow you wherever you go.” And Jesus said to him, “Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head.”

Matthew 6:24“No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.

Proverbs 2:1-22My son, if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding; yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God. ...



 


Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: Billy Evmur on July 04, 2019, 03:27:11 pm
No, whether people are saved does not depend on whether they are rich or poor. I am not saying that. But I am saying poverty is not a virtue see, if it were then the poorer you were, the better chance you would have of being saved.

Poverty is not a blessing it is a curse.

Christians ought to look to God to lift them out of povetry, God's will is to bless and prosper His children.

"Beloved I willest above all things that thou mayest be in health and prosper, even as thy soul prospereth."

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things will be added unto you"

I keep mentioning India because India is poor … three million is a tiny percentage of the population. It has only grown to this number in the last 50 or so years.

Do you believe poverty is a curse?

Do you believe God cares? if people are ill clad or hungry?
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: truthjourney on July 04, 2019, 09:40:11 pm
No, whether people are saved does not depend on whether they are rich or poor. I am not saying that. But I am saying poverty is not a virtue see, if it were then the poorer you were, the better chance you would have of being saved.

Poverty is not a blessing it is a curse.

Christians ought to look to God to lift them out of povetry, God's will is to bless and prosper His children.

"Beloved I willest above all things that thou mayest be in health and prosper, even as thy soul prospereth."

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things will be added unto you"

I keep mentioning India because India is poor … three million is a tiny percentage of the population. It has only grown to this number in the last 50 or so years.

Do you believe poverty is a curse?

Do you believe God cares? if people are ill clad or hungry?
I have clearly explained my views and beliefs about this. I have provided many scriptures to support what I've said. At this point any further discussion from me about this would be repetition. We are not in agreement so we will just have to agree to disagree.
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: Billy Evmur on July 05, 2019, 02:43:45 pm
Take the quote "My God shall supply all your needs according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus"

Now ye Phillipians know also that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia no church communicated with me as concerning GIVING and RECIEVING but ye only.
For even in Thessalonica ye sent once and again unto my necessity

Not because I desire a gift but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.

But I have all and abound, I am full having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent by you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice well pleasing to God.

But my God will supply all your need according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

Paul is not here writing to a single person but to an assembly of God's people at Phillipi.

It is good to take God's word as personal to each of us individually, but here the promise is to the church.

What does it say?

It says this assembly had a partnership going, wow, that's exciting. I have visited many fellowships where they have missionaries in different places across the world, in poor place, there is always the heartfelt plea for funds please, please, please help, do your duty, dig deep etc … you know you ought to.

Give, give, give

There is never any mention of receiving.

Paul said the partnership was one of giving and receiving, they want you give but they say nothing about receiving. … maybe , just maybe that is why Christians tend to give so little, maybe that's why church projects are always so poorly funded.

See Paul's gospel was the same as Jesu's

Give and it shall be given you again, good measure, pressed down and shaken together and running over shall men give into your bosom. For with the measure ye mete shall it be meted unto you again.

That's what Paul taught the Corinthians. He who sows sparingly shall also reap sparingly but he who sows abundantly shall also reap abundantly.

That YOU might have all sufficiency for your own needs with plenty left over for every good work.

That is God's word, that is God's will. 


Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: patrick jane on July 11, 2019, 06:02:46 am
✝🙏🍺🍕🐟👁‍🗨
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: Bladerunner on July 24, 2019, 10:53:26 pm
✝🙏🍺🍕🐟👁‍🗨

I see you liked Billy's statement

Blade
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: Billy Evmur on August 11, 2019, 06:30:39 am
What about our Lord's statement?

seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you

[He doesn't say "might be"]
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: Bladerunner on August 12, 2019, 08:21:01 pm
What about our Lord's statement?

seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you

[He doesn't say "might be"]

Hey Billy,,,, I agree.

Blade
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: patrick jane on August 12, 2020, 07:15:59 am
Billy
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: patrick jane on August 26, 2020, 05:01:13 pm
Billy
Will I prosper?
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: patrick jane on September 14, 2020, 06:07:06 pm
Billy
Will I prosper?
Billy wants me to.
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: patrick jane on September 17, 2020, 06:11:50 pm
Billy
Will I prosper?
Billy wants me to.
Yes good ole Billy
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: patrick jane on October 15, 2020, 10:20:07 pm
Billy
Will I prosper?
Billy wants me to.
Yes good ole Billy
Hi Billy
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: patrick jane on October 24, 2020, 07:31:52 am
Billy
Will I prosper?
Billy wants me to.
Yes good ole Billy
Hi Billy
Billy is not God
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: patrick jane on July 05, 2021, 04:40:09 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFWjkdNiQYo
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: Mr E on July 05, 2021, 05:41:58 pm
I think Billy has a new perspective now.
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: patrick jane on July 05, 2021, 08:03:36 pm
I think Billy has a new perspective now.
Mr E are you getting the PMs I'm sending you.
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: Bladerunner on July 05, 2021, 09:14:47 pm
Billy
Will I prosper?
Billy wants me to.
Yes good ole Billy

Billy not answering? lol


Blade
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: patrick jane on November 16, 2021, 12:22:35 pm
(https://www-images.christianitytoday.com/images/125693.jpg?h=393&w=700)
https://www.christianitytoday.com/pastors/2021/fall/rejection-prosperity-gospel-missing-gods-provision.html







In Our Rejection of the Prosperity Gospel, Are We Missing God's Provision?








As church leaders, we can model a balanced mindset about God's material blessings.


I knew full well going to Facebook to ask for advice could be dicey. My wife and I had had our fill of mechanic bills and were in the market for a new (used) vehicle. Searching online for low-mileage, well-maintained cars in our price range was proving difficult, but I thought I’d found a good lead. The car was about 15 years old but appeared to have barely been driven by its one owner. It was in great shape and seemed like a steal.

There was only one problem. It was a BMW.

Am I a BMW guy? I thought to myself. My first concern, I confess, was about what others might think. So I took to Facebook and asked, “Anyone out there think it’s problematic for someone in my position to drive a car like this?” I was worried it might appear immodest or even hypocritical for a seminary professor and preacher of the (free!) gospel to be seen driving such a car.

I made sure to mention a few exonerating details—that it wasn’t new, wasn’t expensive, and the like. Most of my friends said they wouldn’t have a problem with me driving one. Interestingly, one commenter said that the very fact I was asking meant it probably was a violation of my own conscience. And another commenter added that seeing me drive a BMW onto the campus where I teach pastoral ministry would “cause him to stumble.”

In the end, my wife and I opted to keep searching, mainly because of warnings we received about costly repairs to older-model BMWs, which was the very thing we were trying to avoid in the first place. But the experience got me thinking about Christians’ vision of money and the perception, right or wrong, of extravagance and prosperity.

Our Complicated Relationship with Prosperity
Evangelicalism is a conflicted marketplace when it comes to prosperity. On the one hand, our suburban megachurches (not exactly known for frugality or architectural sparseness) continue to grow and reproduce while we prop up our subculture’s own version of internet influencers and self-help gurus by making their channels popular, their books bestsellers, and their brands lucrative.

On the other hand, we also enjoy scoffing at some of these folks’ obsession with image and unabashed displays of luxury. The Instagram account PreachersNSneakers—which features photos of well-known Christian spokespeople sporting expensive tennis shoes, ostensibly for the purpose of exposing their inappropriate extravagance—is just one example. And of course many evangelicals find the long-tenured cast of characters in the “health and wealth” movement a reliable stock for sarcasm and critique.

Americans are obsessed with money, and they’re obsessed with those who are thought to have too much of it. And American Christians are no exception. Perhaps there’s a double-mindedness at play here.

To be clear, the prosperity gospel—a theology of a Protestant subculture largely occupied by (but not limited to) Pentecostal and charismatic believers that posits financial blessings and physical health are God’s will for the faithful—is an especially pernicious plague in the world, now fully exported and a global affront to true Christianity. And its problems aren’t merely theological. The prosperity gospel movement exploits the poor and many others in ways implicit and explicit that often cross fully into the category of spiritual abuse.

When we couple this very real religious epidemic with wider (but also very real) concerns about social justice, income disparities, economic disadvantage, and the like, evangelicalism’s money problem makes total sense. Prosperity theology—“health and wealth,” “name it and claim it,” and so on—turns God’s commands into formulas and faithful obedience into a kind of magic. The prosperity gospel twists biblical concepts into a counterintuitive mix of superstition and pragmatism. This heterodoxy ought to be rejected wholesale.

But what if our rightful concern with the prosperity gospel and our honest zeal against it has created a scorched-earth policy regarding money and material blessings that is, in its own way, problematic?

The Biblical Balance on Wealth
Are God’s provisions only to be thought of in purely spiritual terms—that is, are we to reject any material prosperity as not one of God’s blessings? Could our reaction to the prosperity gospel’s errors cause us to miss biblical truth about God’s provision?

The Bible, of course, says a multitude of things about money and material possessions, but Christian thinking on the subject these days appears to be somewhat selective. For instance, we all know that the love of money is an idolatry that leads to ruin (Ecc. 5:10; Matt. 6:24; 1 Tim. 6:10; Heb. 13:5). Paul names love of money in the same list of shameful immoralities that includes abuse and brutality (2 Tim. 3:2–5). Jesus also warns about riches constantly. The wealthy, it would seem, are at a significant disadvantage when it comes to perceiving his glory and the eternal riches of the kingdom (Mark 10:25).

But the Bible also has plenty of positive things to say about wealth—not about the love of it or the finding of one’s satisfaction in it, obviously, but simply about the fact of it. In the Old Testament in particular, we find ample evidence of financial and material provision being viewed as part of God’s blessings. The Wisdom Literature especially seems to regard wealth as (often) the result of good stewardship, hard work, and faithful diligence. Proverbs 12:27 is just one example: “Whoever is slothful will not roast his game, but the diligent man will get precious wealth” (ESV). Riches are also held out very often metaphorically as a reward for faithfulness (Ps. 112:3; Prov. 14:24; Is. 60:5).

Job is an obvious example of a very rich man who is nevertheless regarded as righteous (Job 1:1–3). After he has undergone his unfathomable suffering, his restoration includes the reward of double his previous fortune. This comes from the hand of the Lord himself (42:10).

In the New Testament, where the warnings about riches seem to come more urgently, we nevertheless encounter wealthy people who support the ministry of Christ and his disciples. Joseph of Arimathea, who possessed a family tomb he offered to hold the body of the crucified Jesus and is identified as “a rich man” in Matthew 27:57, is just one example. A group of women financially supported Christ’s ministry out of their abundance, as well (Luke 8:3). And Lydia and other wealthy patrons helped sponsor the early church’s apostolic missionary efforts.

The problem with the prosperity gospel, then, appears not to be about prosperity per se. The spiritual dysfunction of this theology is largely about pragmatism, a turning of biblical principles into dubious formulas for wealth and accumulation. It is one thing to think of riches and material possessions as God’s blessings. It’s another thing entirely to think of them as God’s debt to our faithfulness (or to consider the lack of riches as an indicator of unfaithfulness).

Certainly the language of reward in the Scriptures may complicate the thinking here. When we come across verses about asking and receiving, we must take care not to misinterpret them as being about individualistic fulfillment or remove them from their spiritual and kingdom contexts. Similarly, passages on sowing and reaping or returns on investments often lend themselves to immediate financial or personal application, when their primary thrust is often about spiritual interest, heavenly rewards, or the stewardship of souls.

We can know that finances are not an automatic or reliable reward for faithfulness simply because there are too many of the faithful poor in the Scriptures! We can and should repudiate any theology that posits material goods as owed to anybody. And we can and should repudiate any vision of material goods that promotes greed, envy, vanity, and immodesty, not to mention stinginess or exploitation of the poor. The potential for sin is not in the money itself, but in how we think about it and what we may do with it.

How a Poverty of Thinking Impacts Our Churches
As church leaders, our vision of money—especially how we talk about it—has deep implications for our personal discipleship and the discipleship culture of our churches. What do we stand to lose, for instance, if in our rejection of the prosperity gospel, we unintentionally create a kind of shame around receiving such provision?

We could inadvertently deincentivize generosity among those in our midst who have more than others. If maintaining wealth is itself cast as greedy or otherwise sinful, we may be telling the wealthier among us that the church and its mission are not the place in which to invest one’s wealth, that their stewardship ought to be channeled elsewhere.

Consider: What do our better-resourced congregants think when we create unbiblical categories of sin around money and possessions? Will they feel unwelcome, ashamed, or even alienated from the values of the church? If we cultivate an unhealthy stigma around wealth, our wealthier members may have second thoughts about financial support of the church, opting instead to support charities and organizations that cheerfully receive their cheerful generosity.

Or they may even disengage from church altogether. If a church operates with a shame culture around money, it may ironically promote self-indulgence and self-interest in disengaged wealthier congregants, creating deep detrimental impacts on mission support and benevolence needs.

Think, too, of those in lower-income areas where successful businesses lead to job creation and other cascading effects of social uplift. By shaming wealth, the church may be confusing budding entrepreneurs and defusing the kind of passion that can have long-lasting, systemic improvements in contexts that most need them.

Additionally, casting a vision of money or material possessions as themselves sinful borders on a kind of Gnosticism that works against the real-world spirituality of the Scriptures.

It is much better instead to speak of money as a tool. Tools can help or harm. Many people in our world have been harmed by deformed thinking about and demonic use of this tool. But many others have been helped. To borrow a phrase from Martin Luther, let us take great care in our overcorrection, then, not to fall off the horse on the other side.

The evangelical problem with money can be remedied with a careful and biblical call for vigilance and balance, for grace and clarity. Pastors ought to remind their congregations—and themselves!—about the dangers of riches, about the particular vulnerabilities endemic to those who enjoy more of material provisions than others. As it traffics in self-interest and a kind of pragmatic legalism, the prosperity gospel is always lying in wait outside the doors of our hearts, so we need to teach biblical truth and encourage biblical wisdom in these matters at every turn.

But we ought not act out the now-clichéd misremembering of 1 Timothy 6:10, that “money is the root of all evil.” Along with sober-mindedness, encourage wholehearted generosity. Appeal to those who have much to remember in every way those who have little. To remember the poor is part of our fidelity to the gospel, in fact (Gal. 2:10). Every good gift comes from God. Nothing is to be rejected if it can be received with thanksgiving. Let us not dishonor the Giver by deeming any of his blessings as unacceptable.






Jared C. Wilson is assistant professor of pastoral ministry at Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, director of the Pastoral Training Center at Liberty Baptist Church, and cohost of CT’s The Art of Pastoring podcast.
Title: Re: God wants you to prosper
Post by: patrick jane on November 16, 2021, 05:59:10 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUVf25Y6P18