patrick jane forums
Theology, Anthropology & Archaeology => Words of God - Christian Theology w/Bladerunner => Topic started by: guest8 on August 12, 2018, 09:48:49 pm
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There are many who flee from Dispensationalism, some who agree with it and others like one well know scholar stated; are 'Leaky Dispensationalist.
Dispensation is stated in the KJV Bible 4 times: 1Co 9:17; Eph 1:10; Eph 3:2; Col 1:25. The word in itself is Biblical.
I have found that one can divide the Bible in many sections but they do not in anyway help with the literal reading and understanding the Bible. The following is my position on "Rightly Dividing the Bible (God's WORD)
Pre-Law, Law, Jesus's Ministry, Age of Grace, The End Days
You may have different dispensations but these actually work for me?
All Pre-Law covers Creation, the Flood, etc.(Genesis to Deuteronomy)
The Law given to Moses in and Prophets was until John (the Baptist) Luke 16:16 (Deuteronomy to Matthew, Mark and Luke)
Between The Law, the ministries of John the Baptist, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Jesus were in process until the beginning of the "Body of Christ (the Age of Grace)" which started at Acts 2:1.
The Age of Grace will last from Acts 2:1 to the removal of the Church (Body of Christ) via Harpazo.
After the Church is no longer on this earth, The antichrist will be revealed. The Beginning of the End days.
The only way the Old Testament could end and the FORCE of the NEW Testament could happen is with the death of a Testator. Jesus Christ. (Heb 9:16-17)
Blade
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I tend to stick with Innocence, Conscience, Government, Promise, Law, Church, and Millennium. I use them more as a guide rather than rigid blocks of time. some have clearly delineated ends; removed from Eden, the flood, and Christ's first coming. Others are murky like Government. Abraham started the dispensation of Promise, but Government kind of continued. The millennium is still future.
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I tend to stick with Innocence, Conscience, Government, Promise, Law, Church, and Millennium. I use them more as a guide rather than rigid blocks of time. some have clearly delineated ends; removed from Eden, the flood, and Christ's first coming. Others are murky like Government. Abraham started the dispensation of Promise, but Government kind of continued. The millennium is still future.
It is ok as long as one see the ending of the LAW and beginning of water Baptism for remission of sins instead of sacrifices. then a transition period into ACTs where it goes from a water Baptism to a baptism by the spirit and fire.
Blade
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27 minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOqKNBLJdi8
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Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection, the gospel of our salvation, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -
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(https://www.thewayinternational.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/rightly-dividing-word-truth.jpg)
There are many who flee from Dispensationalism, some who agree with it and others like one well know scholar stated; are 'Leaky Dispensationalist.
Dispensation is stated in the KJV Bible 4 times: 1Co 9:17; Eph 1:10; Eph 3:2; Col 1:25. The word in itself is Biblical.
Three of the four mentions of "dispensation" in the Bible were committed/given to Paul! Everything outside of what Paul wrote in Romans through Philemon is to Israel.
-
(https://www.thewayinternational.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/rightly-dividing-word-truth.jpg)
There are many who flee from Dispensationalism, some who agree with it and others like one well know scholar stated; are 'Leaky Dispensationalist.
Dispensation is stated in the KJV Bible 4 times: 1Co 9:17; Eph 1:10; Eph 3:2; Col 1:25. The word in itself is Biblical.
Three of the four mentions of "dispensation" in the Bible were committed/given to Paul! Everything outside of what Paul wrote in Romans through Philemon is to Israel.
Hello Phebe, Don't believe I have had the pleasure of speaking to you before today.
I see you are studying dispensations of the Bible. Yes, Dispensation is mentioned in the KJV Bible so it can be considered Biblical.
The Leaky Dispensationalist is also my position. The word can be taken too little or it can be used too much in a HYPER sort of way.
I use it as the KJV tells us. So does the other scholar you mentioned without naming him.
The Law Dispensation is one I think we can agree upon. The Grace dispensation is another.
Jesus tells us that the LAW and Prophets Stopped with John. John the Baptist. This preceded the 4 years of preaching to the Jewish people prior to that faithful day when Jesus rode into Jerusalem 173,880 days after the command was given to rebuild the temple and the wall, streets.
Up until this time, the message given to the Jewish people as seen in the three Gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke was the Kingdom of Heaven Gospel. This gospel would have been the the millennium gospel had not the Jewish leaders at the time rejected the Trinity three times. This caused the Millennium that would have been to become postponed. That postponement has never been reactivated YET.
After the Death, Burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ (1 Cor 15:1-4), Acts (by Mark) became the transitional period of time from the Law to the Grace by Faith.
The Period of time from the day Jesus tells us that the Law stopped to Acts Chapter 2. is the dispensational period I will call the "Kingdom of Heaven ".
From Acts 2, The dispensational period of Grace by Faith started and has yet to come to a conclusion.
We know that the Millennium to come will have the "everlasting Gospel".
One could have two others dispensation periods.. Daniel's 70th week and the Millennium.
If one takes the dispensations from the beginning:
1. Creation
2. Law
3.Kingdom of Heaven
4.Grace
5.Daniel's 70th week
6.Millennium
7.New Jerusalem
Of course, one can use more dispensations and many do.
The bottom line is the dispensations represent the way God reacted to the people during a specific time. This is another study unto itself.
And one last item. Paul IS/was our apostle today. throughout His entire set of books, they are for the CHurch (body of Christ). There are 13 +1 Books. Three of these are to Pastors with each having two epistles. The other SEVEN epistles are to the Churches of that time period. So are Jesus' letters to the Churches of that time period. Rev. chapters 2 and 3.
Are they related to each other. We know both of them have an Ephesus letter. Look to the seven letters of Jesus to see if any others fit.
The Bible is put together like a jigsaw puzzle to us but it fits like a glove with all parts involved. These 14 letters fit each other like a glove. It was a joy to study.
Blade
-
27 minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOqKNBLJdi8
Theology Forums : https://theologyforums.com/index.php
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Bitchute : https://www.bitchute.com/channel/xUZJpNWUz2T4/
Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection, the gospel of our salvation, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -
That dude **** me up.
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(https://www.thewayinternational.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/rightly-dividing-word-truth.jpg)
There are many who flee from Dispensationalism, some who agree with it and others like one well know scholar stated; are 'Leaky Dispensationalist.
Dispensation is stated in the KJV Bible 4 times: 1Co 9:17; Eph 1:10; Eph 3:2; Col 1:25. The word in itself is Biblical.
Three of the four mentions of "dispensation" in the Bible were committed/given to Paul! Everything outside of what Paul wrote in Romans through Philemon is to Israel.
Hello Phebe, Don't believe I have had the pleasure of speaking to you before today.
I see you are studying dispensations of the Bible. Yes, Dispensation is mentioned in the KJV Bible so it can be considered Biblical.
The Leaky Dispensationalist is also my position. The word can be taken too little or it can be used too much in a HYPER sort of way.
I use it as the KJV tells us. So does the other scholar you mentioned without naming him.
The Law Dispensation is one I think we can agree upon. The Grace dispensation is another.
Jesus tells us that the LAW and Prophets Stopped with John. John the Baptist. This preceded the 4 years of preaching to the Jewish people prior to that faithful day when Jesus rode into Jerusalem 173,880 days after the command was given to rebuild the temple and the wall, streets.
Up until this time, the message given to the Jewish people as seen in the three Gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke was the Kingdom of Heaven Gospel. This gospel would have been the the millennium gospel had not the Jewish leaders at the time rejected the Trinity three times. This caused the Millennium that would have been to become postponed. That postponement has never been reactivated YET.
After the Death, Burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ (1 Cor 15:1-4), Acts (by Mark) became the transitional period of time from the Law to the Grace by Faith.
The Period of time from the day Jesus tells us that the Law stopped to Acts Chapter 2. is the dispensational period I will call the "Kingdom of Heaven ".
From Acts 2, The dispensational period of Grace by Faith started and has yet to come to a conclusion.
We know that the Millennium to come will have the "everlasting Gospel".
One could have two others dispensation periods.. Daniel's 70th week and the Millennium.
If one takes the dispensations from the beginning:
1. Creation
2. Law
3.Kingdom of Heaven
4.Grace
5.Daniel's 70th week
6.Millennium
7.New Jerusalem
Of course, one can use more dispensations and many do.
The bottom line is the dispensations represent the way God reacted to the people during a specific time. This is another study unto itself.
And one last item. Paul IS/was our apostle today. throughout His entire set of books, they are for the CHurch (body of Christ). There are 13 +1 Books. Three of these are to Pastors with each having two epistles. The other SEVEN epistles are to the Churches of that time period. So are Jesus' letters to the Churches of that time period. Rev. chapters 2 and 3.
Are they related to each other. We know both of them have an Ephesus letter. Look to the seven letters of Jesus to see if any others fit.
The Bible is put together like a jigsaw puzzle to us but it fits like a glove with all parts involved. These 14 letters fit each other like a glove. It was a joy to study.
Blade
My preferred focus of study is on 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV and therefore the dispensations stated as such in the Bible: dispensation of the gospel committed to Paul 1 Corinthians 9:17 KJV during his provoking ministry, the dispensation of God given to Paul for us, to fulfill the word of God, even the mystery (Colossians 1:25-26 KJV), and the dispensation of the grace of God given to Paul to usward (Ephesians 3:1-9 KJV), and his mention of the dispensation of the fulness of times God might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in Him (Ephesians 1:10 KJV). I must then recognize the rest outside of that which is written by my apostle in Romans through Philemon as FOR us (Romans 15:4 KJV, 2 Timothy 3:16-17 KJV), but not TO us as I am called by the gospel (2 Timothy 1:8-10 KJV, Ephesians 3:6 KJV) which leads me to follow Paul 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 KJV, 1 Corinthians 4:15-16 KJV, Ephesians 4:1-6 KJV, 2 Timothy 1:13 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:2 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:7-8 KJV.
-
(https://www.thewayinternational.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/rightly-dividing-word-truth.jpg)
There are many who flee from Dispensationalism, some who agree with it and others like one well know scholar stated; are 'Leaky Dispensationalist.
Dispensation is stated in the KJV Bible 4 times: 1Co 9:17; Eph 1:10; Eph 3:2; Col 1:25. The word in itself is Biblical.
Three of the four mentions of "dispensation" in the Bible were committed/given to Paul! Everything outside of what Paul wrote in Romans through Philemon is to Israel.
Hello Phebe, Don't believe I have had the pleasure of speaking to you before today.
I see you are studying dispensations of the Bible. Yes, Dispensation is mentioned in the KJV Bible so it can be considered Biblical.
The Leaky Dispensationalist is also my position. The word can be taken too little or it can be used too much in a HYPER sort of way.
I use it as the KJV tells us. So does the other scholar you mentioned without naming him.
The Law Dispensation is one I think we can agree upon. The Grace dispensation is another.
Jesus tells us that the LAW and Prophets Stopped with John. John the Baptist. This preceded the 4 years of preaching to the Jewish people prior to that faithful day when Jesus rode into Jerusalem 173,880 days after the command was given to rebuild the temple and the wall, streets.
Up until this time, the message given to the Jewish people as seen in the three Gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke was the Kingdom of Heaven Gospel. This gospel would have been the the millennium gospel had not the Jewish leaders at the time rejected the Trinity three times. This caused the Millennium that would have been to become postponed. That postponement has never been reactivated YET.
After the Death, Burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ (1 Cor 15:1-4), Acts (by Mark) became the transitional period of time from the Law to the Grace by Faith.
The Period of time from the day Jesus tells us that the Law stopped to Acts Chapter 2. is the dispensational period I will call the "Kingdom of Heaven ".
From Acts 2, The dispensational period of Grace by Faith started and has yet to come to a conclusion.
We know that the Millennium to come will have the "everlasting Gospel".
One could have two others dispensation periods.. Daniel's 70th week and the Millennium.
If one takes the dispensations from the beginning:
1. Creation
2. Law
3.Kingdom of Heaven
4.Grace
5.Daniel's 70th week
6.Millennium
7.New Jerusalem
Of course, one can use more dispensations and many do.
The bottom line is the dispensations represent the way God reacted to the people during a specific time. This is another study unto itself.
And one last item. Paul IS/was our apostle today. throughout His entire set of books, they are for the CHurch (body of Christ). There are 13 +1 Books. Three of these are to Pastors with each having two epistles. The other SEVEN epistles are to the Churches of that time period. So are Jesus' letters to the Churches of that time period. Rev. chapters 2 and 3.
Are they related to each other. We know both of them have an Ephesus letter. Look to the seven letters of Jesus to see if any others fit.
The Bible is put together like a jigsaw puzzle to us but it fits like a glove with all parts involved. These 14 letters fit each other like a glove. It was a joy to study.
Blade
My preferred focus of study is on 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV and therefore the dispensations stated as such in the Bible: dispensation of the gospel committed to Paul 1 Corinthians 9:17 KJV during his provoking ministry, the dispensation of God given to Paul for us, to fulfill the word of God, even the mystery (Colossians 1:25-26 KJV), and the dispensation of the grace of God given to Paul to usward (Ephesians 3:1-9 KJV), and his mention of the dispensation of the fulness of times God might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in Him (Ephesians 1:10 KJV). I must then recognize the rest outside of that which is written by my apostle in Romans through Philemon as FOR us (Romans 15:4 KJV, 2 Timothy 3:16-17 KJV), but not TO us as I am called by the gospel (2 Timothy 1:8-10 KJV, Ephesians 3:6 KJV) which leads me to follow Paul 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 KJV, 1 Corinthians 4:15-16 KJV, Ephesians 4:1-6 KJV, 2 Timothy 1:13 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:2 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:7-8 KJV.
It is ok if you recognize them as being to us (gentiles). After Acts 7, Paul's teaching were to both the Jews and the Gentiles. The Gentiles being our ancestors (or at least mine). I say that as the Bible only has two races in the world. Jews and Gentiles.
Your right, Paul is our Apostle and if we follow what he and the other Apostles after Acts 9 tell us, then everything will be ok.
Hope you have a Blessed evening Phebe.
Blade
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Dispensation in the King James Version is translated from οικονομιαν. oikonomion.
https://biblehub.com/greek/3622.htm
"3622. oikonomia, stewardship, administration
Usage: management of household affairs, stewardship, administration."
Look in the William Tyndale New Testament, for the four uses of oikonoma, The Tyndale New Testament was the first English translation from the Textus Receptus, whose verse wordings had a great influence upon the wordings of the Geneva Bible and the King James Version.
https://www.biblestudytools.com/tyn/1-corinthians/9.html
I Corinthians 9: 17: "If I do it with a good will I have a rewarde. But yf I do it agaynst my will an office is committed vnto me." "Office" is the key word
Ephesians 1: 10: "to have it declared when the tyme were full come yt all thynges bothe ye thynges which are in heven and also the thynges which are in erthe shuld be gaddered togedder even in Christ:"
The Textus Receptus Greek says "for the oikonomian of the fullness of time to head up all things is Christ."
Ephesians 3: 2: " Yf ye have hearde of the ministracion (ministration) of the grace of god which is geven me to you warde."
Colossians 1: 25 "wher of I am made a minister acordynge to the ordinaunce of god which ordinaunce was geven me vnto you warde to fulfill ye worde of god."
"ordinaunce" is the key word.
The question is whether it can be determined where the King James Translators got their "dispensationalist" translation of oikonomian. One possibility is the John Wycliff English translation of the Latin Vulgate.
http://www.bibledbdata.org/onlinebibles/wycliffe_nt/
I Corinthians 9: 17 "But if Y do this thing wilfuli, Y haue mede; but if ayens my wille, dispending is bitakun to me."
Ephesians 1: 10 "hym in the dispensacioun of plente of tymes to enstore alle thingis in Crist, whiche ben in heuenes, and whiche ben in erthe, in hym."
Ephesians 3: 2 " if netheles ye han herd the dispensacioun of Goddis grace, that is youun to me in you."
Colossians 1: 25 " Of which Y Poul am maad mynystre bi the dispensacioun of God, that is youun to me in you"
Now lets look at these same New Testament scriptures in the Geneva Bible.,
http://www.genevabible.org/files/Geneva_Bible/New_Testament/1Corinthians_F.pdf
I Corinthians 9: 17 " For if I do it willingly, I have a
reward, but if I do it against my will, notwithstanding
the dispensation is committed unto me. "
Ephesians 1: 10: " That in the dispensation of the fullness of the times, he might
gather together in one all things, both which are in heaven, and which are in earth,
even in Christ."
Ephesians 3: 2 " If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God, which is given me
toward you."
Colossians1: 25: " Whereof I am a minister, according to the dispensation of God, which is
given me towards you, to fulfill the word of God, "
The translation of oikonomia as dispensation first appeared in the Geneva Bible, and the King James Version followed that translation. But the John 1382 Wycliff English translation of Catholic Latin Bible of Jerome translated oikonomia as dispensation, in an older English version of the spelling, which is likely the source of that translation of oikonomia in the Geneva Bible.
It may have been the successor of John Calvin, Theodore Beza, who was responsible for changing the Tyndale translation of oikonomia to the older Catholic version of dispensation. Beza did some translations which had an influence upon the Committee which produced the Geneva Bible.
I Corinthians 9: 17
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Dispensation in the King James Version is translated from οικονομιαν. oikonomion.
https://biblehub.com/greek/3622.htm
"3622. oikonomia, stewardship, administration
Usage: management of household affairs, stewardship, administration."
Look in the William Tyndale New Testament, for the four uses of oikonoma, The Tyndale New Testament was the first English translation from the Textus Receptus, whose verse wordings had a great influence upon the wordings of the Geneva Bible and the King James Version.
https://www.biblestudytools.com/tyn/1-corinthians/9.html
I Corinthians 9: 17: "If I do it with a good will I have a rewarde. But yf I do it agaynst my will an office is committed vnto me." "Office" is the key word
Ephesians 1: 10: "to have it declared when the tyme were full come yt all thynges bothe ye thynges which are in heven and also the thynges which are in erthe shuld be gaddered togedder even in Christ:"
The Textus Receptus Greek says "for the oikonomian of the fullness of time to head up all things is Christ."
Ephesians 3: 2: " Yf ye have hearde of the ministracion (ministration) of the grace of god which is geven me to you warde."
Colossians 1: 25 "wher of I am made a minister acordynge to the ordinaunce of god which ordinaunce was geven me vnto you warde to fulfill ye worde of god."
"ordinaunce" is the key word.
The question is whether it can be determined where the King James Translators got their "dispensationalist" translation of oikonomian. One possibility is the John Wycliff English translation of the Latin Vulgate.
http://www.bibledbdata.org/onlinebibles/wycliffe_nt/
I Corinthians 9: 17 "But if Y do this thing wilfuli, Y haue mede; but if ayens my wille, dispending is bitakun to me."
Ephesians 1: 10 "hym in the dispensacioun of plente of tymes to enstore alle thingis in Crist, whiche ben in heuenes, and whiche ben in erthe, in hym."
Ephesians 3: 2 " if netheles ye han herd the dispensacioun of Goddis grace, that is youun to me in you."
Colossians 1: 25 " Of which Y Poul am maad mynystre bi the dispensacioun of God, that is youun to me in you"
Now lets look at these same New Testament scriptures in the Geneva Bible.,
http://www.genevabible.org/files/Geneva_Bible/New_Testament/1Corinthians_F.pdf
I Corinthians 9: 17 " For if I do it willingly, I have a
reward, but if I do it against my will, notwithstanding
the dispensation is committed unto me. "
Ephesians 1: 10: " That in the dispensation of the fullness of the times, he might
gather together in one all things, both which are in heaven, and which are in earth,
even in Christ."
Ephesians 3: 2 " If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God, which is given me
toward you."
Colossians1: 25: " Whereof I am a minister, according to the dispensation of God, which is
given me towards you, to fulfill the word of God, "
The translation of oikonomia as dispensation first appeared in the Geneva Bible, and the King James Version followed that translation. But the John 1382 Wycliff English translation of Catholic Latin Bible of Jerome translated oikonomia as dispensation, in an older English version of the spelling, which is likely the source of that translation of oikonomia in the Geneva Bible.
It may have been the successor of John Calvin, Theodore Beza, who was responsible for changing the Tyndale translation of oikonomia to the older Catholic version of dispensation. Beza did some translations which had an influence upon the Committee which produced the Geneva Bible.
I Corinthians 9: 17
The KJV translated in the early 17th century had access to the Masoretic Text, The Latin Vulgate, the Septuagint, the Textus Receptus, around 5,000 New Testament texts and of course the Tyndale Bible.
During the 19th century, the Alexandrian Codices were argued to be not only the oldest but most preferred. This is most likely where the change in "oikonomia" came from.
Blade
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"During the 19th century, the Alexandrian Codices were argued to be not only the oldest but most preferred. This is most likely where the change in "oikonomia" came from."
Look at I Corinthians 9: 17
Textus Receptus: ει γαρ εκων τουτο πρασσω μισθον εχω ει δε ακων οικονομιαν πεπιστευμαι
Westcott-Hort: ει γαρ εκων τουτο πρασσω μισθον εχω ει δε ακων οικονομιαν πεπιστευμαι
Colossians 1: 25 Textus Receptus: ης εγενομην εγω διακονος κατα την οικονομιαν του θεου την δοθεισαν μοι εις υμας πληρωσαι τον λογον του θεου
Colossians 1: 25: Westcott-Hort: ης εγενομην εγω διακονος κατα την οικονομιαν του θεου την δοθεισαν μοι εις υμας πληρωσαι τον λογον του θεου
I doubt if there are any differences in the Greek between the Textus Receptus and the Westcott-Hort text for Ephesians 1: 10 and Ephesians 3: 2.
The change from the Tyndale translation of οικονομιαν is in the translation of the Textus Receptus by the Geneva Bible Committee.
John Wyclife translated the first Bible into English in 1382, not from the original languages, but from the Latin. Wyclife translated the Latin word ecclesiam into chirche (in old English spelling):
But then William Tyndale in his 1526 New Testament translated ekklesia as congregation, except for Acts 14: 13 and Acts 19: 37 where he used churche, meaning a pagan place of worship. Tyndale broke with Catholic tradition and used congregation for ekklesia something which might have contributed to his being strangled at the stake by the Catholics.
And after the death of John Calvin, Theodore Beza in 1556 returned to the use of church to translate ekklesia - and the Geneva Bible followed him, using church instead of congregation. Beza returned to the Catholic Capital C Church translation of ekklesia as chirche.
Did a similar change from Tyndale's translations of οικονομιαν to the Geneva Bible's translation as dispensation, again going back to the older Catholic translation?
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"During the 19th century, the Alexandrian Codices were argued to be not only the oldest but most preferred. This is most likely where the change in "oikonomia" came from."
Look at I Corinthians 9: 17
Textus Receptus: ει γαρ εκων τουτο πρασσω μισθον εχω ει δε ακων οικονομιαν πεπιστευμαι
Westcott-Hort: ει γαρ εκων τουτο πρασσω μισθον εχω ει δε ακων οικονομιαν πεπιστευμαι
Colossians 1: 25 Textus Receptus: ης εγενομην εγω διακονος κατα την οικονομιαν του θεου την δοθεισαν μοι εις υμας πληρωσαι τον λογον του θεου
Colossians 1: 25: Westcott-Hort: ης εγενομην εγω διακονος κατα την οικονομιαν του θεου την δοθεισαν μοι εις υμας πληρωσαι τον λογον του θεου
I doubt if there are any differences in the Greek between the Textus Receptus and the Westcott-Hort text for Ephesians 1: 10 and Ephesians 3: 2.
The change from the Tyndale translation of οικονομιαν is in the translation of the Textus Receptus by the Geneva Bible Committee.
John Wyclife translated the first Bible into English in 1382, not from the original languages, but from the Latin. Wyclife translated the Latin word ecclesiam into chirche (in old English spelling):
But then William Tyndale in his 1526 New Testament translated ekklesia as congregation, except for Acts 14: 13 and Acts 19: 37 where he used churche, meaning a pagan place of worship. Tyndale broke with Catholic tradition and used congregation for ekklesia something which might have contributed to his being strangled at the stake by the Catholics.
And after the death of John Calvin, Theodore Beza in 1556 returned to the use of church to translate ekklesia - and the Geneva Bible followed him, using church instead of congregation. Beza returned to the Catholic Capital C Church translation of ekklesia as chirche.
Did a similar change from Tyndale's translations of οικονομιαν to the Geneva Bible's translation as dispensation, again going back to the older Catholic translation?
Ah, yes the Alexander Codices are the most perferred. Only one Book that I know of uses the Leningrad Codecies and that was the KJV...There is a reason, the Alexander Codices are missing or have many extra verses. Rem. This was the Home of the Gnostics.
Westcott-Hort are famous for leaving out and adding to the wording of the Bible... They are the ones who took out Mark 16-9-20. Very important verses that can be proven they are to be in the Bible. Yet, most Bibles (if they have Mark 16:9-20 printed) will have a note on the sideline telling the reader that these were added. Yet they were original.
Blade
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27 minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOqKNBLJdi8
It was a very pleasant surprise to see this video. Thanks, Patrick.
The preacher in the video is EC Moore. He was Acts13. He had a circuit in the 80's, where he traveled mainly in the Mobile/Pensacola area and gave weekly Bible studies. My son, who was about 20 at the time, traveled with him, for about a year, as mainly a gofer and occasional preacher. Before that, my son was attending Ruckman's Baptist college, but was told to leave when Ruckman discovered he was leaning towards mid-Acts.
At the time, my son and I were switching from Ruckman Baptist to mid-Acts and EC was a Godsend. Although I was Ac13 for only a year, or so, I still consider EC the best preacher I've ever heard. No matter what his topic, he always preached the Cross. There are 100s of his videos available, mainly on youtube. I probably averaged 2 of his Bible study tapes each day during that year I was Ac13. EC was my #1 mentor. I could easily pick his distinctive voice out of any crowd today. I prefer his audios, though, since I seem to detect a little self-consciousness in his videos.
I've always trusted my son's spiritual judgment and have basically followed him in the various interpretation systems he has gone through - I still do, although I'm slowly catching up with him. When he was a kid, I taught him how to be smart. When he grew up, he taught me what to be smart about. We next became Ac28 dispensationalists through the tutelage of Arthur Watkins, another Pensacola area preacher. That was 30 years ago and I haven't looked back.
From what I've seen, the Pensacola area is, perhaps, the greatest hotbed of mid-Acts and Ac28 dispensationalism in the country.
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I've seen lists with as many as 16-18 different dispensations. Most people pick 7 because 7 is the number of completion. I see 3, through the present dispensation. More in the future for Israel, starting about 2064.
(1) Anarchy, Giant rule, flood - Gen 1 through Gen 11 - 2000 years
(2) ALL-Israel, NO Gentiles - Gen 12 through Acts 28 - 2000 years
(3) ALL-Gentiles, NO Israel - Eph 1 through 2Tim - 64AD to 2064 - 2000 years
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I've seen lists with as many as 16-18 different dispensations. Most people pick 7 because 7 is the number of completion. I see 3, through the present dispensation. More in the future for Israel, starting about 2064.
(1) Anarchy, Giant rule, flood - Gen 1 through Gen 11 - 2000 years
(2) ALL-Israel, NO Gentiles - Gen 12 through Acts 28 - 2000 years
(3) ALL-Gentiles, NO Israel - Eph 1 through 2Tim - 64AD to 2064 - 2000 years
ac28...#1 is a personal view of the dispensation periods. However,
#2.... "NO GENTILES".....Gentiles have been involved from Day 6. Adam and Eve were Gentiles. Ruth a Moabite Priestess who married Boez and became the ancestry of Jesus Christ. (yes, Another Gentile).
The biggest problem I see, is that you left out the crucifixion of Jesus in favor of Acts 28. I know your a Mid-Acts person but this is ridiculous. The Period of Grace started when Jesus Christ Died on that Cross and washed away all the sins of the world for those who would believe in HIM. He spoke of this period (Kingdom of GOD) in early days of Matthew, Mark and Luke. Of course, the apostles did not understand it until those early days of Acts(2:1) when HIS Church was born.
#3. NO ISRAEL?....God disbursed HIS chosen people throughout the world and partially blinding them so they may not see the truth. Since that time, He has lead them back from being an obscure peoples to a Nation in 1948. Did you know that the day after they declared themselves a sovereign Nation, they were attacked from three sides in an attempt to completely destroy them. While they had a small army it was no match for the other three nations attacking them... Yet, they won quite handily... The WORK of GOD???; I think so!
For those Jews that have become Christians since that time, It seems you are forgetting them... What about those 3,000 Jews that became Christians in Acts 2. Did you forget them as well????????
It seems you are traveling a dangerous road which leads to anti-Semitism. We saw this in WWII and the Pulpit gets a part of the blame for the six million Jews Hitler killed. Yes, All they had to do was open their mouths and cry out for those poor Jewish souls. Yet, they were of the same mind 95% of the Churches throughout the world are in today.
When you are predicting 2064???? can you expand on that thought... Have not heard of that one before.
We are all in this together. Those who are not a part of HIS Church (Bride) will suffer the same faith as the Jewish People who do not find their Messiah in Jesus Christ. They both will be swimming together in the Lake of Fire.
So Sad!
Blade
-
I've seen lists with as many as 16-18 different dispensations. Most people pick 7 because 7 is the number of completion. I see 3, through the present dispensation. More in the future for Israel, starting about 2064.
(1) Anarchy, Giant rule, flood - Gen 1 through Gen 11 - 2000 years
(2) ALL-Israel, NO Gentiles - Gen 12 through Acts 28 - 2000 years
(3) ALL-Gentiles, NO Israel - Eph 1 through 2Tim - 64AD to 2064 - 2000 years
ac28...#1 is a personal view of the dispensation periods. However,
#2.... "NO GENTILES".....Gentiles have been involved from Day 6. Adam and Eve were Gentiles. Ruth a Moabite Priestess who married Boez and became the ancestry of Jesus Christ. (yes, Another Gentile).
The biggest problem I see, is that you left out the crucifixion of Jesus in favor of Acts 28. I know your a Mid-Acts person but this is ridiculous. The Period of Grace started when Jesus Christ Died on that Cross and washed away all the sins of the world for those who would believe in HIM. He spoke of this period (Kingdom of GOD) in early days of Matthew, Mark and Luke. Of course, the apostles did not understand it until those early days of Acts(2:1) when HIS Church was born.
#3. NO ISRAEL?....God disbursed HIS chosen people throughout the world and partially blinding them so they may not see the truth. Since that time, He has lead them back from being an obscure peoples to a Nation in 1948. Did you know that the day after they declared themselves a sovereign Nation, they were attacked from three sides in an attempt to completely destroy them. While they had a small army it was no match for the other three nations attacking them... Yet, they won quite handily... The WORK of GOD???; I think so!
For those Jews that have become Christians since that time, It seems you are forgetting them... What about those 3,000 Jews that became Christians in Acts 2. Did you forget them as well????????
It seems you are traveling a dangerous road which leads to anti-Semitism. We saw this in WWII and the Pulpit gets a part of the blame for the six million Jews Hitler killed. Yes, All they had to do was open their mouths and cry out for those poor Jewish souls. Yet, they were of the same mind 95% of the Churches throughout the world are in today.
When you are predicting 2064???? can you expand on that thought... Have not heard of that one before.
We are all in this together. Those who are not a part of HIS Church (Bride) will suffer the same faith as the Jewish People who do not find their Messiah in Jesus Christ. They both will be swimming together in the Lake of Fire.
So Sad!
Blade
If you knew dispensationalism, you would know I am NOT mid-Acts. For 30 unwavering years, I have been an Acts 28 dispensationalist, the only group in the world that literally obeys 2Tim 2:15 and RIGHTLY divides (Correctly Cuts) God's Word. For 4000 years, God has always treated Israel and Gentiles differently. Except for Christ, I can think of nothing that God ever gave or commanded of Israel that He also gave or commanded of today's Gentiles, The purpose of right division is to cut and remove everything Israel from our personal doctrine that we Gentiles have been falsely taught by the denominational church system belongs to us. Only then will we know our true state and standing before God and our future, About 80-90% of what the average denominational preacher teaches is this Israel stuff that we will never, ever get because none of it was ever given to the Gentiles. No denominational preacher I have ever heard of has the foggiest idea about right division.
There is no nation of Israel today in God's eyes. After having had the blindness curse of Isa 6:9-10 pronounced upon her for the 5th and last time in the Bible, in Ac 28:25-27, the Salvation of God (Jesus Christ) was taken from her in vs 28 and given to the Gentiles. Today, Israel is just another Gentile nation in God's eyes. In Paul's 7 books written after Ac 28, there is no mention of Israel being Active today. EVERYTHING in those books is addressed to Gentiles - Search and See. She is Lo-ammi, not My people, Hosea 1:9. With no temple, it is impossible for her to keep the law. Her present state is summed up in Hosea 3:4. She will be back after 2 days, 2000 years, about 2064, Hosea 6:2.
From Gen 12 through Acts 28, it was all-Israel, as far as God's Blessings were concerned. The ONLY way Gentiles could be blessed unto God was to become a Jew, a proselyte. Except for a mere handful, like Rahab, the only Gentiles to enjoy ANY blessings were those believers in Acts, starting with Acts 10. However, every saved Gentile in Acts was part of Israel, being grafted into Israel. Every blessing any Gentile had was borrowed from Israel. The Gentile had absolutely nothing of their own. All in all, Acts was 100% Israel.
Since Gen 12, God has been calling out Saints to ultimately occupy the 3 parts of His Universe.
(1) The nation Israel will inherit the New Earth, as in the Abrahamic promises.
(2) Elite Israel will inherit the New Jerusalem, which is essentially part of the New Heavens, but attaches to the New Earth. Note there is a gate in the NJ for each tribe. There are no Gentile gates. The Jewish occupants of the NJ will make up the bride.
(3) The present day Gentile church, which is found ONLY in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles are the ONLY people in the Bible to have a Hope of spending eternity in Heavenly Places, Eph 2:6, Far above the created New Heavens. The place where Christ now sits at the right hand of God, Eph 1:20.
As a summary
(1) Gen 12 thru Acts 9, 2000 years. 100% Israel, as far as ANY blessings of God are concerned,
(2) Acts 10 thru Acts 28. Still all-Israel, since all saved Gentiles were part of Israel's program.
(3) After Acts. 100% Gentiles, since there has been no Israel since 64AD. Jews today are just Gentiles, in God's eyes. The only books of the Bible written TO or ABOUT anyone living today are - Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus and Philemon. The other 59 books are written TO and ABOUT Israel, PERIOD!!. All of the Bible is written FOR us, FOR our learning, but Paul's 7 post-Acts books are the only books that tell us ANYTHING about our Hope and Calling, and our Future.
I feel very sad for you.
-
I've seen lists with as many as 16-18 different dispensations. Most people pick 7 because 7 is the number of completion. I see 3, through the present dispensation. More in the future for Israel, starting about 2064.
(1) Anarchy, Giant rule, flood - Gen 1 through Gen 11 - 2000 years
(2) ALL-Israel, NO Gentiles - Gen 12 through Acts 28 - 2000 years
(3) ALL-Gentiles, NO Israel - Eph 1 through 2Tim - 64AD to 2064 - 2000 years
ac28...#1 is a personal view of the dispensation periods. However,
#2.... "NO GENTILES".....Gentiles have been involved from Day 6. Adam and Eve were Gentiles. Ruth a Moabite Priestess who married Boez and became the ancestry of Jesus Christ. (yes, Another Gentile).
The biggest problem I see, is that you left out the crucifixion of Jesus in favor of Acts 28. I know your a Mid-Acts person but this is ridiculous. The Period of Grace started when Jesus Christ Died on that Cross and washed away all the sins of the world for those who would believe in HIM. He spoke of this period (Kingdom of GOD) in early days of Matthew, Mark and Luke. Of course, the apostles did not understand it until those early days of Acts(2:1) when HIS Church was born.
#3. NO ISRAEL?....God disbursed HIS chosen people throughout the world and partially blinding them so they may not see the truth. Since that time, He has lead them back from being an obscure peoples to a Nation in 1948. Did you know that the day after they declared themselves a sovereign Nation, they were attacked from three sides in an attempt to completely destroy them. While they had a small army it was no match for the other three nations attacking them... Yet, they won quite handily... The WORK of GOD???; I think so!
For those Jews that have become Christians since that time, It seems you are forgetting them... What about those 3,000 Jews that became Christians in Acts 2. Did you forget them as well????????
It seems you are traveling a dangerous road which leads to anti-Semitism. We saw this in WWII and the Pulpit gets a part of the blame for the six million Jews Hitler killed. Yes, All they had to do was open their mouths and cry out for those poor Jewish souls. Yet, they were of the same mind 95% of the Churches throughout the world are in today.
When you are predicting 2064???? can you expand on that thought... Have not heard of that one before.
We are all in this together. Those who are not a part of HIS Church (Bride) will suffer the same faith as the Jewish People who do not find their Messiah in Jesus Christ. They both will be swimming together in the Lake of Fire.
So Sad!
Blade
If you knew dispensationalism, you would know I am NOT mid-Acts. For 30 unwavering years, I have been an Acts 28 dispensationalist, the only group in the world that literally obeys 2Tim 2:15 and RIGHTLY divides (Correctly Cuts) God's Word. For 4000 years, God has always treated Israel and Gentiles differently. Except for Christ, I can think of nothing that God ever gave or commanded of Israel that He also gave or commanded of today's Gentiles, The purpose of right division is to cut and remove everything Israel from our personal doctrine that we Gentiles have been falsely taught by the denominational church system belongs to us. Only then will we know our true state and standing before God and our future, About 80-90% of what the average denominational preacher teaches is this Israel stuff that we will never, ever get because none of it was ever given to the Gentiles. No denominational preacher I have ever heard of has the foggiest idea about right division.
There is no nation of Israel today in God's eyes. After having had the blindness curse of Isa 6:9-10 pronounced upon her for the 5th and last time in the Bible, in Ac 28:25-27, the Salvation of God (Jesus Christ) was taken from her in vs 28 and given to the Gentiles. Today, Israel is just another Gentile nation in God's eyes. In Paul's 7 books written after Ac 28, there is no mention of Israel being Active today. EVERYTHING in those books is addressed to Gentiles - Search and See. She is Lo-ammi, not My people, Hosea 1:9. With no temple, it is impossible for her to keep the law. Her present state is summed up in Hosea 3:4. She will be back after 2 days, 2000 years, about 2064, Hosea 6:2.
From Gen 12 through Acts 28, it was all-Israel, as far as God's Blessings were concerned. The ONLY way Gentiles could be blessed unto God was to become a Jew, a proselyte. Except for a mere handful, like Rahab, the only Gentiles to enjoy ANY blessings were those believers in Acts, starting with Acts 10. However, every saved Gentile in Acts was part of Israel, being grafted into Israel. Every blessing any Gentile had was borrowed from Israel. The Gentile had absolutely nothing of their own. All in all, Acts was 100% Israel.
Since Gen 12, God has been calling out Saints to ultimately occupy the 3 parts of His Universe.
(1) The nation Israel will inherit the New Earth, as in the Abrahamic promises.
(2) Elite Israel will inherit the New Jerusalem, which is essentially part of the New Heavens, but attaches to the New Earth. Note there is a gate in the NJ for each tribe. There are no Gentile gates. The Jewish occupants of the NJ will make up the bride.
(3) The present day Gentile church, which is found ONLY in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles are the ONLY people in the Bible to have a Hope of spending eternity in Heavenly Places, Eph 2:6, Far above the created New Heavens. The place where Christ now sits at the right hand of God, Eph 1:20.
As a summary
(1) Gen 12 thru Acts 9, 2000 years. 100% Israel, as far as ANY blessings of God are concerned,
(2) Acts 10 thru Acts 28. Still all-Israel, since all saved Gentiles were part of Israel's program.
(3) After Acts. 100% Gentiles, since there has been no Israel since 64AD. Jews today are just Gentiles, in God's eyes. The only books of the Bible written TO or ABOUT anyone living today are - Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus and Philemon. The other 59 books are written TO and ABOUT Israel, PERIOD!!. All of the Bible is written FOR us, FOR our learning, but Paul's 7 post-Acts books are the only books that tell us ANYTHING about our Hope and Calling, and our Future.
I feel very sad for you.
Just about every thing you just said above is WRONG! BUT!!!! the sentences that bother me the most are: YOU SAID: "I have been an Acts 28 dispensationalist, the only group in the world that literally obeys 2Tim 2:15 and RIGHTLY divides (Correctly Cuts) God's Word."
For anyone to think they have the right to "CORRECTLY CUT" GOD's WORD is really messed up.
The other sentence: "The purpose of right division is to cut and remove everything Israel from our personal doctrine that we Gentiles have been falsely taught by the denominational church system belongs to us."
Personal DOCTRINEs Oh MY!.............I think you really need some help but after 30 years , it is apparent you are not going to change.
So Sad!
Blade
-
I've seen lists with as many as 16-18 different dispensations. Most people pick 7 because 7 is the number of completion. I see 3, through the present dispensation. More in the future for Israel, starting about 2064.
(1) Anarchy, Giant rule, flood - Gen 1 through Gen 11 - 2000 years
(2) ALL-Israel, NO Gentiles - Gen 12 through Acts 28 - 2000 years
(3) ALL-Gentiles, NO Israel - Eph 1 through 2Tim - 64AD to 2064 - 2000 years
ac28...#1 is a personal view of the dispensation periods. However,
#2.... "NO GENTILES".....Gentiles have been involved from Day 6. Adam and Eve were Gentiles. Ruth a Moabite Priestess who married Boez and became the ancestry of Jesus Christ. (yes, Another Gentile).
The biggest problem I see, is that you left out the crucifixion of Jesus in favor of Acts 28. I know your a Mid-Acts person but this is ridiculous. The Period of Grace started when Jesus Christ Died on that Cross and washed away all the sins of the world for those who would believe in HIM. He spoke of this period (Kingdom of GOD) in early days of Matthew, Mark and Luke. Of course, the apostles did not understand it until those early days of Acts(2:1) when HIS Church was born.
#3. NO ISRAEL?....God disbursed HIS chosen people throughout the world and partially blinding them so they may not see the truth. Since that time, He has lead them back from being an obscure peoples to a Nation in 1948. Did you know that the day after they declared themselves a sovereign Nation, they were attacked from three sides in an attempt to completely destroy them. While they had a small army it was no match for the other three nations attacking them... Yet, they won quite handily... The WORK of GOD???; I think so!
For those Jews that have become Christians since that time, It seems you are forgetting them... What about those 3,000 Jews that became Christians in Acts 2. Did you forget them as well????????
It seems you are traveling a dangerous road which leads to anti-Semitism. We saw this in WWII and the Pulpit gets a part of the blame for the six million Jews Hitler killed. Yes, All they had to do was open their mouths and cry out for those poor Jewish souls. Yet, they were of the same mind 95% of the Churches throughout the world are in today.
When you are predicting 2064???? can you expand on that thought... Have not heard of that one before.
We are all in this together. Those who are not a part of HIS Church (Bride) will suffer the same faith as the Jewish People who do not find their Messiah in Jesus Christ. They both will be swimming together in the Lake of Fire.
So Sad!
Blade
If you knew dispensationalism, you would know I am NOT mid-Acts. For 30 unwavering years, I have been an Acts 28 dispensationalist, the only group in the world that literally obeys 2Tim 2:15 and RIGHTLY divides (Correctly Cuts) God's Word. For 4000 years, God has always treated Israel and Gentiles differently. Except for Christ, I can think of nothing that God ever gave or commanded of Israel that He also gave or commanded of today's Gentiles, The purpose of right division is to cut and remove everything Israel from our personal doctrine that we Gentiles have been falsely taught by the denominational church system belongs to us. Only then will we know our true state and standing before God and our future, About 80-90% of what the average denominational preacher teaches is this Israel stuff that we will never, ever get because none of it was ever given to the Gentiles. No denominational preacher I have ever heard of has the foggiest idea about right division.
There is no nation of Israel today in God's eyes. After having had the blindness curse of Isa 6:9-10 pronounced upon her for the 5th and last time in the Bible, in Ac 28:25-27, the Salvation of God (Jesus Christ) was taken from her in vs 28 and given to the Gentiles. Today, Israel is just another Gentile nation in God's eyes. In Paul's 7 books written after Ac 28, there is no mention of Israel being Active today. EVERYTHING in those books is addressed to Gentiles - Search and See. She is Lo-ammi, not My people, Hosea 1:9. With no temple, it is impossible for her to keep the law. Her present state is summed up in Hosea 3:4. She will be back after 2 days, 2000 years, about 2064, Hosea 6:2.
From Gen 12 through Acts 28, it was all-Israel, as far as God's Blessings were concerned. The ONLY way Gentiles could be blessed unto God was to become a Jew, a proselyte. Except for a mere handful, like Rahab, the only Gentiles to enjoy ANY blessings were those believers in Acts, starting with Acts 10. However, every saved Gentile in Acts was part of Israel, being grafted into Israel. Every blessing any Gentile had was borrowed from Israel. The Gentile had absolutely nothing of their own. All in all, Acts was 100% Israel.
Since Gen 12, God has been calling out Saints to ultimately occupy the 3 parts of His Universe.
(1) The nation Israel will inherit the New Earth, as in the Abrahamic promises.
(2) Elite Israel will inherit the New Jerusalem, which is essentially part of the New Heavens, but attaches to the New Earth. Note there is a gate in the NJ for each tribe. There are no Gentile gates. The Jewish occupants of the NJ will make up the bride.
(3) The present day Gentile church, which is found ONLY in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles are the ONLY people in the Bible to have a Hope of spending eternity in Heavenly Places, Eph 2:6, Far above the created New Heavens. The place where Christ now sits at the right hand of God, Eph 1:20.
As a summary
(1) Gen 12 thru Acts 9, 2000 years. 100% Israel, as far as ANY blessings of God are concerned,
(2) Acts 10 thru Acts 28. Still all-Israel, since all saved Gentiles were part of Israel's program.
(3) After Acts. 100% Gentiles, since there has been no Israel since 64AD. Jews today are just Gentiles, in God's eyes. The only books of the Bible written TO or ABOUT anyone living today are - Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus and Philemon. The other 59 books are written TO and ABOUT Israel, PERIOD!!. All of the Bible is written FOR us, FOR our learning, but Paul's 7 post-Acts books are the only books that tell us ANYTHING about our Hope and Calling, and our Future.
I feel very sad for you.
Just about every thing you just said above is WRONG! BUT!!!! the sentences that bother me the most are: YOU SAID: "I have been an Acts 28 dispensationalist, the only group in the world that literally obeys 2Tim 2:15 and RIGHTLY divides (Correctly Cuts) God's Word."
For anyone to think they have the right to "CORRECTLY CUT" GOD's WORD is really messed up.
The other sentence: "The purpose of right division is to cut and remove everything Israel from our personal doctrine that we Gentiles have been falsely taught by the denominational church system belongs to us."
Personal DOCTRINEs Oh MY!.............I think you really need some help but after 30 years , it is apparent you are not going to change.
So Sad!
Blade
Everything I said was scriptural. It's foreign to you because you don't rightly divide, correctly cut, God's word, and, therefore, it's impossible for you to be scriptural. Instead of your goofy insults, why don't you try proving me wrong, scripturally? From what you've shown so far, you are just another typical victim of Satan's denominational church (synagogue) system, composed of preachers who teach unobtainable Jewish doctrine to unsuspecting Gentile sheep.
Here's a short list of doctrine that was given ONLY to Israel, but I would be shocked if you don't believe that you can falsely claim every item on the list as belonging to you. Show me, with scripture, where any of these things were EVER specifically given to Gentiles today - NOT the Gentiles in Acts, who were grafted into Israel, but the totally independent Gentiles today, as found ONLY in Paul's 7 post-Acts books. At the time each of these things was given to Israel, they were NOT given to any Gentile that was not part of Israel. Why do you think we Gentiles can claim them now? As a whole, Christendom falsely believes the church is replacing Israel, as does anyone that believes any of the following apply to the Gentile Church today.
---the Lord's prayer
---the Lord's supper,
---Christ's gospel of the Earthly Kingdom
---the Great Commission
---the churches in the Gospels and Acts (we have a brand new church in Eph and Col),
---the New Covenant,
---the sermon on the mount,
---all or any part of the Law,
---water baptism,
---the Gifts of the Spirit,
---the idea that we are the seed of Abraham and Abraham is our Father,
---the New Jerusalem,
---the idea that we Gentiles are now part of Israel, in any way, whatsoever
---and, of course, Satan's favorite, the Rapture, the lie that keeps people in Acts and out of the TRUTH
Nothing (except for Christ) in the OT, the Gospels, or the Acts period was TO or ABOUT any Gentile today. If you can't find it in Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, or Philemon, it isn't TO or ABOUT you today. These books are unique in that they are Calling out Gentiles to be the future occupants of Heavenly Places, Eph 2:6. Far above the starry Heavens, Eph 4:10, where Christ now sits at God's right hand, Eph 1:20. No one, no Jew, no Gentile, in the other all-Israel 59 books, EVER had a Hope of spending eternity in this Highest Heaven.
---Everything Paul taught in his 7 Acts books was based on the all-Israel OT, Moses and the Prophets, Ac 26:22.
---Everything Paul taught in his 7 post-Acts books was part of a mystery that had been hid in God since the world began, Eph 3:9, Col 1:26, until it was revealed to Paul by special revelation from Christ after Acts ended, Eph 3:3
Therefore, no human knew anything about the content of Eph, Col, etc., until Eph and Col, etc., were written. There is nothing about this mystery found anywhere else in scripture. Therefore, it is impossible to blend any scripture from Paul's last 7 books with any scripture from the other 59 books. Paul's 7 post-Acts books are an island unto themselves, with no traffic in or out. These 7 books are the only books in the Bible TO or ABOUT anyone living today, including all Jews and all Gentiles.
If you want to argue scripture, I'm game. If you want to continue your pitiful insults, I don't have time to waste with you. So far, NOTHING you've said is credible. Check out the scripture I've given. Remove your Jewish spectacles and study Eph, Phil, and Col seriously for the first time in your life. You're a Pure Gentile under Pure Grace, which can only be found in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles. You have absolutely no part in anything associated with Israel.
The blessings possible for you in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles are 1000s of times better than anything EVER given to Israel. Why stay with the beggarly elements of Israel's blessings? There are indications that the Heavenly position in Eph is NOT automatic. In Paul's prayer of Eph 1:17-18, it indicates that God must give you the eyes of understanding in order for you to SEE the Hope of your calling found only in Paul's post-Acts epistles. In other words, if you can't see this Hope of the Highest Heaven, there is the possibility you won't go to Heaven. I believe that, if you don't give up all those Jewish beliefs, God won't allow you to SEE your true Hope of Heaven. That's what God's command to rightly divide is all about. In 2Tim 2:15, it says that, if you Correctly Cut God's Word, you will be approved unto God and will have no need to feel ashamed.
A question. Can you see your Hope in Ephesians, and that it's different than any other Hope in the Bible? If you can't, you have a problem.
Since nothing ever given to Israel, except Christ, was EVER given to today's Gentiles, it only requires one Correct Cut to separate all things Israel from all things Gentile. There is one place, and one place only, in scripture, where it is 100% Israel (59 books) on one side of the cut and 100% Gentiles (7 books) on the other side of the cut. That is between Acts and Ephesians. Everything in the 59 books is invaluable for our learning but, when it comes to things TO and ABOUT us and what is our Hope, Calling, and Future, only the 7 books written after Acts apply directly to us.
According to Strong's, the phrase, "rightly dividing" means, "make a straight cut", "Correctly cut" or "Correctly dissect". The Satanic modern Bibles, such as the ESV, ASV, NIV, NASB, use milky, wimpy, incorrect phrases like, "handling aright" or "correctly handles". These are easily proven to be wrong. Anything to "dumb down" Christendom.
-
I've seen lists with as many as 16-18 different dispensations. Most people pick 7 because 7 is the number of completion. I see 3, through the present dispensation. More in the future for Israel, starting about 2064.
(1) Anarchy, Giant rule, flood - Gen 1 through Gen 11 - 2000 years
(2) ALL-Israel, NO Gentiles - Gen 12 through Acts 28 - 2000 years
(3) ALL-Gentiles, NO Israel - Eph 1 through 2Tim - 64AD to 2064 - 2000 years
ac28...#1 is a personal view of the dispensation periods. However,
#2.... "NO GENTILES".....Gentiles have been involved from Day 6. Adam and Eve were Gentiles. Ruth a Moabite Priestess who married Boez and became the ancestry of Jesus Christ. (yes, Another Gentile).
The biggest problem I see, is that you left out the crucifixion of Jesus in favor of Acts 28. I know your a Mid-Acts person but this is ridiculous. The Period of Grace started when Jesus Christ Died on that Cross and washed away all the sins of the world for those who would believe in HIM. He spoke of this period (Kingdom of GOD) in early days of Matthew, Mark and Luke. Of course, the apostles did not understand it until those early days of Acts(2:1) when HIS Church was born.
#3. NO ISRAEL?....God disbursed HIS chosen people throughout the world and partially blinding them so they may not see the truth. Since that time, He has lead them back from being an obscure peoples to a Nation in 1948. Did you know that the day after they declared themselves a sovereign Nation, they were attacked from three sides in an attempt to completely destroy them. While they had a small army it was no match for the other three nations attacking them... Yet, they won quite handily... The WORK of GOD???; I think so!
For those Jews that have become Christians since that time, It seems you are forgetting them... What about those 3,000 Jews that became Christians in Acts 2. Did you forget them as well????????
It seems you are traveling a dangerous road which leads to anti-Semitism. We saw this in WWII and the Pulpit gets a part of the blame for the six million Jews Hitler killed. Yes, All they had to do was open their mouths and cry out for those poor Jewish souls. Yet, they were of the same mind 95% of the Churches throughout the world are in today.
When you are predicting 2064???? can you expand on that thought... Have not heard of that one before.
We are all in this together. Those who are not a part of HIS Church (Bride) will suffer the same faith as the Jewish People who do not find their Messiah in Jesus Christ. They both will be swimming together in the Lake of Fire.
So Sad!
Blade
If you knew dispensationalism, you would know I am NOT mid-Acts. For 30 unwavering years, I have been an Acts 28 dispensationalist, the only group in the world that literally obeys 2Tim 2:15 and RIGHTLY divides (Correctly Cuts) God's Word. For 4000 years, God has always treated Israel and Gentiles differently. Except for Christ, I can think of nothing that God ever gave or commanded of Israel that He also gave or commanded of today's Gentiles, The purpose of right division is to cut and remove everything Israel from our personal doctrine that we Gentiles have been falsely taught by the denominational church system belongs to us. Only then will we know our true state and standing before God and our future, About 80-90% of what the average denominational preacher teaches is this Israel stuff that we will never, ever get because none of it was ever given to the Gentiles. No denominational preacher I have ever heard of has the foggiest idea about right division.
There is no nation of Israel today in God's eyes. After having had the blindness curse of Isa 6:9-10 pronounced upon her for the 5th and last time in the Bible, in Ac 28:25-27, the Salvation of God (Jesus Christ) was taken from her in vs 28 and given to the Gentiles. Today, Israel is just another Gentile nation in God's eyes. In Paul's 7 books written after Ac 28, there is no mention of Israel being Active today. EVERYTHING in those books is addressed to Gentiles - Search and See. She is Lo-ammi, not My people, Hosea 1:9. With no temple, it is impossible for her to keep the law. Her present state is summed up in Hosea 3:4. She will be back after 2 days, 2000 years, about 2064, Hosea 6:2.
From Gen 12 through Acts 28, it was all-Israel, as far as God's Blessings were concerned. The ONLY way Gentiles could be blessed unto God was to become a Jew, a proselyte. Except for a mere handful, like Rahab, the only Gentiles to enjoy ANY blessings were those believers in Acts, starting with Acts 10. However, every saved Gentile in Acts was part of Israel, being grafted into Israel. Every blessing any Gentile had was borrowed from Israel. The Gentile had absolutely nothing of their own. All in all, Acts was 100% Israel.
Since Gen 12, God has been calling out Saints to ultimately occupy the 3 parts of His Universe.
(1) The nation Israel will inherit the New Earth, as in the Abrahamic promises.
(2) Elite Israel will inherit the New Jerusalem, which is essentially part of the New Heavens, but attaches to the New Earth. Note there is a gate in the NJ for each tribe. There are no Gentile gates. The Jewish occupants of the NJ will make up the bride.
(3) The present day Gentile church, which is found ONLY in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles are the ONLY people in the Bible to have a Hope of spending eternity in Heavenly Places, Eph 2:6, Far above the created New Heavens. The place where Christ now sits at the right hand of God, Eph 1:20.
As a summary
(1) Gen 12 thru Acts 9, 2000 years. 100% Israel, as far as ANY blessings of God are concerned,
(2) Acts 10 thru Acts 28. Still all-Israel, since all saved Gentiles were part of Israel's program.
(3) After Acts. 100% Gentiles, since there has been no Israel since 64AD. Jews today are just Gentiles, in God's eyes. The only books of the Bible written TO or ABOUT anyone living today are - Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus and Philemon. The other 59 books are written TO and ABOUT Israel, PERIOD!!. All of the Bible is written FOR us, FOR our learning, but Paul's 7 post-Acts books are the only books that tell us ANYTHING about our Hope and Calling, and our Future.
I feel very sad for you.
Just about every thing you just said above is WRONG! BUT!!!! the sentences that bother me the most are: YOU SAID: "I have been an Acts 28 dispensationalist, the only group in the world that literally obeys 2Tim 2:15 and RIGHTLY divides (Correctly Cuts) God's Word."
For anyone to think they have the right to "CORRECTLY CUT" GOD's WORD is really messed up.
The other sentence: "The purpose of right division is to cut and remove everything Israel from our personal doctrine that we Gentiles have been falsely taught by the denominational church system belongs to us."
Personal DOCTRINEs Oh MY!.............I think you really need some help but after 30 years , it is apparent you are not going to change.
So Sad!
Blade
Everything I said was scriptural. It's foreign to you because you don't rightly divide, correctly cut, God's word, and, therefore, it's impossible for you to be scriptural. Instead of your goofy insults, why don't you try proving me wrong, scripturally? From what you've shown so far, you are just another typical victim of Satan's denominational church (synagogue) system, composed of preachers who teach unobtainable Jewish doctrine to unsuspecting Gentile sheep.
Here's a short list of doctrine that was given ONLY to Israel, but I would be shocked if you don't believe that you can falsely claim every item on the list as belonging to you. Show me, with scripture, where any of these things were EVER specifically given to Gentiles today - NOT the Gentiles in Acts, who were grafted into Israel, but the totally independent Gentiles today, as found ONLY in Paul's 7 post-Acts books. At the time each of these things was given to Israel, they were NOT given to any Gentile that was not part of Israel. Why do you think we Gentiles can claim them now? As a whole, Christendom falsely believes the church is replacing Israel, as does anyone that believes any of the following apply to the Gentile Church today.
---the Lord's prayer
---the Lord's supper,
---Christ's gospel of the Earthly Kingdom
---the Great Commission
---the churches in the Gospels and Acts (we have a brand new church in Eph and Col),
---the New Covenant,
---the sermon on the mount,
---all or any part of the Law,
---water baptism,
---the Gifts of the Spirit,
---the idea that we are the seed of Abraham and Abraham is our Father,
---the New Jerusalem,
---the idea that we Gentiles are now part of Israel, in any way, whatsoever
---and, of course, Satan's favorite, the Rapture, the lie that keeps people in Acts and out of the TRUTH
Nothing (except for Christ) in the OT, the Gospels, or the Acts period was TO or ABOUT any Gentile today. If you can't find it in Eph, Phil, Col, 1&2Tim, Titus, or Philemon, it isn't TO or ABOUT you today. These books are unique in that they are Calling out Gentiles to be the future occupants of Heavenly Places, Eph 2:6. Far above the starry Heavens, Eph 4:10, where Christ now sits at God's right hand, Eph 1:20. No one, no Jew, no Gentile, in the other all-Israel 59 books, EVER had a Hope of spending eternity in this Highest Heaven.
---Everything Paul taught in his 7 Acts books was based on the all-Israel OT, Moses and the Prophets, Ac 26:22.
---Everything Paul taught in his 7 post-Acts books was part of a mystery that had been hid in God since the world began, Eph 3:9, Col 1:26, until it was revealed to Paul by special revelation from Christ after Acts ended, Eph 3:3
Therefore, no human knew anything about the content of Eph, Col, etc., until Eph and Col, etc., were written. There is nothing about this mystery found anywhere else in scripture. Therefore, it is impossible to blend any scripture from Paul's last 7 books with any scripture from the other 59 books. Paul's 7 post-Acts books are an island unto themselves, with no traffic in or out. These 7 books are the only books in the Bible TO or ABOUT anyone living today, including all Jews and all Gentiles.
If you want to argue scripture, I'm game. If you want to continue your pitiful insults, I don't have time to waste with you. So far, NOTHING you've said is credible. Check out the scripture I've given. Remove your Jewish spectacles and study Eph, Phil, and Col seriously for the first time in your life. You're a Pure Gentile under Pure Grace, which can only be found in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles. You have absolutely no part in anything associated with Israel.
The blessings possible for you in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles are 1000s of times better than anything EVER given to Israel. Why stay with the beggarly elements of Israel's blessings? There are indications that the Heavenly position in Eph is NOT automatic. In Paul's prayer of Eph 1:17-18, it indicates that God must give you the eyes of understanding in order for you to SEE the Hope of your calling found only in Paul's post-Acts epistles. In other words, if you can't see this Hope of the Highest Heaven, there is the possibility you won't go to Heaven. I believe that, if you don't give up all those Jewish beliefs, God won't allow you to SEE your true Hope of Heaven. That's what God's command to rightly divide is all about. In 2Tim 2:15, it says that, if you Correctly Cut God's Word, you will be approved unto God and will have no need to feel ashamed.
A question. Can you see your Hope in Ephesians, and that it's different than any other Hope in the Bible? If you can't, you have a problem.
Since nothing ever given to Israel, except Christ, was EVER given to today's Gentiles, it only requires one Correct Cut to separate all things Israel from all things Gentile. There is one place, and one place only, in scripture, where it is 100% Israel (59 books) on one side of the cut and 100% Gentiles (7 books) on the other side of the cut. That is between Acts and Ephesians. Everything in the 59 books is invaluable for our learning but, when it comes to things TO and ABOUT us and what is our Hope, Calling, and Future, only the 7 books written after Acts apply directly to us.
According to Strong's, the phrase, "rightly dividing" means, "make a straight cut", "Correctly cut" or "Correctly dissect". The Satanic modern Bibles, such as the ESV, ASV, NIV, NASB, use milky, wimpy, incorrect phrases like, "handling aright" or "correctly handles". These are easily proven to be wrong. Anything to "dumb down" Christendom.
So far, NOTHING you've said is credible. back at you......It appears you do not believe in the millennium??
To be certain, One of us is wrong! It is a hard way to find out., When death comes to us, it will not allow any more opportunity to change ones mind.
Have a good day
Blade
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Blade,
I just noticed that, in what you wrote to me, you didn't quote scripture once, I assume that means you feel incapable of combating what I said. On the other hand, I quoted scripture 20 times. Everything I said is scriptural.
There has been no Israel, in God's eyes, for 1956 years. Absolutely no OT prophecy has been fulfilled during that time. God had no part in the formation of present day Israel. The map in this link proves that. When God does gather Israel, they will occupy all the land that was promised to Abraham, Issac,and Jacob.
http://www.refuteit.com/article-blog/the-geographic-center-of-the-earth-and-the-bible.
Of course I believe there will be a 1000 year reign of Christ on the earth.
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Blade,
I just noticed that, in what you wrote to me, you didn't quote scripture once, I assume that means you feel incapable of combating what I said. On the other hand, I quoted scripture 20 times. Everything I said is scriptural.
There has been no Israel, in God's eyes, for 1956 years. Absolutely no OT prophecy has been fulfilled during that time. God had no part in the formation of present day Israel. The map in this link proves that. When God does gather Israel, they will occupy all the land that was promised to Abraham, Issac,and Jacob.
http://www.refuteit.com/article-blog/the-geographic-center-of-the-earth-and-the-bible.
Of course I believe there will be a 1000 year reign of Christ on the earth.
Which post are you talking about ac28, there are three,. No need to argue with you. you cannot see or will not see.,.... When Christ reigns on earth for that 1,000 years you believe in, that is when the REMNANT of Israel will be brought back into their land that was given to Moses.
Rev 12 1-17. with verse 17 telling us who Satan is at war with. "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."
In the mean time, the Nation of Israel and the world will have to endure several prophecies that are still unfulfilled. Psalm 83, Ezekiel 38, Isa 17:1; Jer 49:1-5; Isa 19:1-2; Gog/Magog War...Ezekial 38,39........ for a few..
YHou Said:"When God does gather Israel, they will occupy all the land that was promised to Abraham, Issac,and Jacob.
http://www.refuteit.com/article-blog/the-geographic-center-of-the-earth-and-the-bible"
I thought you were quoting only scripture.......this is not scripture:"http://www.refuteit.com/article-blog/the-geographic-center-of-the-earth-and-the-bible"
Hope this enough scripture for you......
Blade
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Blade,
I just noticed that, in what you wrote to me, you didn't quote scripture once, I assume that means you feel incapable of combating what I said. On the other hand, I quoted scripture 20 times. Everything I said is scriptural.
There has been no Israel, in God's eyes, for 1956 years. Absolutely no OT prophecy has been fulfilled during that time. God had no part in the formation of present day Israel. The map in this link proves that. When God does gather Israel, they will occupy all the land that was promised to Abraham, Issac,and Jacob.
http://www.refuteit.com/article-blog/the-geographic-center-of-the-earth-and-the-bible.
Of course I believe there will be a 1000 year reign of Christ on the earth.
Which post are you talking about ac28, there are three,. No need to argue with you. you cannot see or will not see.,.... When Christ reigns on earth for that 1,000 years you believe in, that is when the REMNANT of Israel will be brought back into their land that was given to Moses.
Rev 12 1-17. with verse 17 telling us who Satan is at war with. "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."
In the mean time, the Nation of Israel and the world will have to endure several prophecies that are still unfulfilled. Psalm 83, Ezekiel 38, Isa 17:1; Jer 49:1-5; Isa 19:1-2; Gog/Magog War...Ezekial 38,39........ for a few..
YHou Said:"When God does gather Israel, they will occupy all the land that was promised to Abraham, Issac,and Jacob.
http://www.refuteit.com/article-blog/the-geographic-center-of-the-earth-and-the-bible"
I thought you were quoting only scripture.......this is not scripture:"http://www.refuteit.com/article-blog/the-geographic-center-of-the-earth-and-the-bible"
Hope this enough scripture for you......
Blade
Not even close. How did you select that scripture? With a dart? In any case,it is meaningless to this discussion.
Where did I say I was quoting ONLY scripture? It's not a quote, anyway, It's a map that proves Israel only occupies about 1/50th of the land she was promised. When Christ returns, His angels will gather Israel and place them in the ENTIRE promised land.
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Blade,
I just noticed that, in what you wrote to me, you didn't quote scripture once, I assume that means you feel incapable of combating what I said. On the other hand, I quoted scripture 20 times. Everything I said is scriptural.
There has been no Israel, in God's eyes, for 1956 years. Absolutely no OT prophecy has been fulfilled during that time. God had no part in the formation of present day Israel. The map in this link proves that. When God does gather Israel, they will occupy all the land that was promised to Abraham, Issac,and Jacob.
http://www.refuteit.com/article-blog/the-geographic-center-of-the-earth-and-the-bible.
Of course I believe there will be a 1000 year reign of Christ on the earth.
Which post are you talking about ac28, there are three,. No need to argue with you. you cannot see or will not see.,.... When Christ reigns on earth for that 1,000 years you believe in, that is when the REMNANT of Israel will be brought back into their land that was given to Moses.
Rev 12 1-17. with verse 17 telling us who Satan is at war with. "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."
In the mean time, the Nation of Israel and the world will have to endure several prophecies that are still unfulfilled. Psalm 83, Ezekiel 38, Isa 17:1; Jer 49:1-5; Isa 19:1-2; Gog/Magog War...Ezekial 38,39........ for a few..
You Said:"When God does gather Israel, they will occupy all the land that was promised to Abraham, Issac,and Jacob.
http://www.refuteit.com/article-blog/the-geographic-center-of-the-earth-and-the-bible"
I thought you were quoting only scripture.......this is not scripture:"http://www.refuteit.com/article-blog/the-geographic-center-of-the-earth-and-the-bible"
Hope this enough scripture for you......
Blade
Not even close. How did you select that scripture? With a dart? In any case,it is meaningless to this discussion.
Where did I say I was quoting ONLY scripture? It's not a quote, anyway, It's a map that proves Israel only occupies about 1/50th of the land she was promised. When Christ returns, His angels will gather Israel and place them in the ENTIRE promised land.
[/quote]
I think it funny, in one area of your ramblings, you deny what I said yet, you agree with it in the last sentence. "When Christ returns, His angels will gather Israel and place them in the ENTIRE promised land."
BYE!
Blade
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMkIlcVqeRo
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfUgGJgW3ZM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfUgGJgW3ZM
Paul is our apostle yet Jesus is the Author of all words of Paul and others. Yes, we can follow what Paul says as long as we remember these are the words of Jesus....
Blade
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Paul is our apostle yet Jesus is the Author of all words of Paul and others. Yes, we can follow what Paul says as long as we remember these are the words of Jesus....
Blade
Indeed, and we get attacked for following Jesus' words to follow Paul. The biggest denomination is named after a guy named John who was never called John the Baptist in scripture. Paul says he will not build on another's foundation, meaning Peter I believe. The foundation and Cornerstone is Christ and as Acts 9:15 states - Jesus said Paul is a chosen vessel. No we do not worship Paul, just like Baptists and Lutherans don't worship men.
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Paul is our apostle yet Jesus is the Author of all words of Paul and others. Yes, we can follow what Paul says as long as we remember these are the words of Jesus....
Blade
Indeed, and we get attacked for following Jesus' words to follow Paul. The biggest denomination is named after a guy named John who was never called John the Baptist in scripture. Paul says he will not build on another's foundation, meaning Peter I believe. The foundation and Cornerstone is Christ and as Acts 9:15 states - Jesus said Paul is a chosen vessel. No we do not worship Paul, just like Baptists and Lutherans don't worship men.
Rem Peter changed His tune once He was told that Paul was an apostle....Actually....Peter stayed in trouble all the time...as on scholar put it, he took his foot out of his mouth only long enough to put the other one in.
have a good/safe evening my brother.
Blade