Patrick Jane Forums | Theology, Anthropology, Conspiracy

Discussion | Christian News | Chaplain's Office => Open Discussion => Topic started by: patrick jane on October 19, 2018, 04:03:39 pm

Title: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on October 19, 2018, 04:03:39 pm
(https://rlv.zcache.com/the_gay_lifestyle_button-r077ce33383d64c318a51c7bc2ebb1192_k94r8_307.jpg?rlvnet=1&rvtype=content)



Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?



Can someone who is a part of the LGBT community be a Christian?

Romans 3:23 -25 for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;  being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Romans 8:35-39 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.




Patreon : https://www.patreon.com/patrick_jane3169
PayPal Donations : https://paypal.me/ThankYou3169
Flat Earth Forums : https://3169.createaforum.com/index.php?action=forum
Theology Forums :  https://theologyforums.com/index.php
Youtube : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpzjN3dF-_PnAc81SQVjqhg?view_as=subscriber
Pinterest : https://www.pinterest.com/patrickjane3169/
Google : https://plus.google.com/u/0/113527239869543729835
Linkedin : https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrick-jane-833769164/
Twitter : https://twitter.com/patrickjane3169
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100007669219364+

Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: guest13 on October 19, 2018, 08:37:33 pm
Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?


Can someone who is a part of the LGBT community be a Christian?

Well ... can someone who is living a promiscuous lifestyle (adultery, sex outside of marriage, etc.) be a Christian?  My college youth pastor who sang at my wedding, ended up divorced after committing adultery with the wife of the music director.  I knew them all for years.  Does that invalidate their salvation?

I don't know.  What I do know is that I always see adultery as being a more serious sin than promiscuity and fornication because it interferes with a marriage and family.
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: Billy Evmur on October 20, 2018, 08:40:50 am
Is it at all in line with Paul's gospel to be taught by a wide-eyed slip of a girl?

The answer is homosexuals can be saved and then backslide, they put themselves in great danger, they will incur chastisement even death.
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: Bladerunner on October 20, 2018, 10:19:50 pm
Is it at all in line with Paul's gospel to be taught by a wide-eyed slip of a girl?

The answer is homosexuals can be saved and then backslide, they put themselves in great danger, they will incur chastisement even death.



 I doubt very seriously that a homosexual who says they were saved and then backslide was saved at all. I personally do not believe in "Carnal Christians"

Jesus who knew you before you were born and knows whether you are true to your word with him or NOT.

If Homosexuals think they can fool Him then they have the same mentality as the World's army, at the coming Armageddon, thinking they can take on GOD (Jesus Christ) and win!

Blade

Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: Billy Evmur on October 21, 2018, 06:36:52 am
We all backslide dear Blade, the first thing we do is backslide into our familiar sins, how well I remember my first experience of it...I mourned for days. Then began the fightback and eventual victory over sin [His victory of course]

But here we are speaking about wilful sin I think, throwing off all restraint like the wicked fellow at Corinth, but as wicked as he was Paul could not say that he was in danger of losing his salvation, but he was to be punished and his punishment did include being chucked out of the assembly. He did attain to forgiveness.
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: guest13 on October 21, 2018, 11:11:53 am
We all backslide dear Blade, the first thing we do is backslide into our familiar sins, how well I remember my first experience of it...I mourned for days. Then began the fightback and eventual victory over sin [His victory of course]

But here we are speaking about wilful sin I think, throwing off all restraint like the wicked fellow at Corinth, but as wicked as he was Paul could not say that he was in danger of losing his salvation, but he was to be punished and his punishment did include being chucked out of the assembly. He did attain to forgiveness.

Doesn't it seem like one standard should hold for any sin?  Adultery, fornication, etc.    I mean it's either if you sin, you lose your salvation and were never saved to begin with OR ... even those who are saved still backslide and sin.
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: Billy Evmur on October 21, 2018, 12:56:02 pm
The question is totally one of whether we can abandon ourselves to any sinful lifestyle, you are right. The thief can no longer steal, the liar can no longer lie while professing Christ


If they did not repent of those things they were not saved, if they were saved but fall back to those things they are in a backslidden condition, they need to get out of that.

But if they then throw off all restraint and sin wilfully they are in a potentially awful place. The bible speaks about the assembly giving the wilful sinner over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh that the spirit may be saved.


But flagrant sin cannot be tolerated in the assembly.
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: Bladerunner on October 21, 2018, 08:32:08 pm
The question is totally one of whether we can abandon ourselves to any sinful lifestyle, you are right. The thief can no longer steal, the liar can no longer lie while professing Christ


If they did not repent of those things they were not saved, if they were saved but fall back to those things they are in a backslidden condition, they need to get out of that.

But if they then throw off all restraint and sin wilfully they are in a potentially awful place. The bible speaks about the assembly giving the wilful sinner over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh that the spirit may be saved.


But flagrant sin cannot be tolerated in the assembly.


Whoa wait a minute. all you got if they backslide is :"
they need to get out of that."

WHAT IF THEY DO NOT QUIT  their Backslide (sinning). Does Jesus simply continue to look the other way. How long do they have. How many times (if this applies).

And if they lose their Salvation: Does this make Jesus a Liar as He told us:

John 6:39..."And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. "

Blade
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on May 08, 2019, 12:29:03 pm
The question is totally one of whether we can abandon ourselves to any sinful lifestyle, you are right. The thief can no longer steal, the liar can no longer lie while professing Christ


If they did not repent of those things they were not saved, if they were saved but fall back to those things they are in a backslidden condition, they need to get out of that.

But if they then throw off all restraint and sin wilfully they are in a potentially awful place. The bible speaks about the assembly giving the wilful sinner over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh that the spirit may be saved.


But flagrant sin cannot be tolerated in the assembly.


Whoa wait a minute. all you got if they backslide is :"
they need to get out of that."

WHAT IF THEY DO NOT QUIT  their Backslide (sinning). Does Jesus simply continue to look the other way. How long do they have. How many times (if this applies).

And if they lose their Salvation: Does this make Jesus a Liar as He told us:

John 6:39..."And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. "

Blade

Good point Blade. Someone that continues is willful sin may not have been saved to begin with.
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: Grace_Accepted on June 26, 2019, 09:38:07 am
No one advocating sin, any sin, is in a saving relationship with God.  BUT there are plenty of us at war with ourselves, struggling with the flesh that are saved and covered by His grace.

If you advocate sin you don't understand sin.  If I stepped barefoot into dog poo, I would just shrug it off, ignore my condition and track the stuff in the house and all through it.

Sin is worse than dog poo ona a summer bare foot!
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on July 27, 2019, 03:37:41 pm
No one advocating sin, any sin, is in a saving relationship with God.  BUT there are plenty of us at war with ourselves, struggling with the flesh that are saved and covered by His grace.

If you advocate sin you don't understand sin.  If I stepped barefoot into dog poo, I would just shrug it off, ignore my condition and track the stuff in the house and all through it.

Sin is worse than dog poo ona a summer bare foot!
Good post
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: Bladerunner on July 27, 2019, 08:36:51 pm
No one advocating sin, any sin, is in a saving relationship with God.  BUT there are plenty of us at war with ourselves, struggling with the flesh that are saved and covered by His grace.

If you advocate sin you don't understand sin.  If I stepped barefoot into dog poo, I would just shrug it off, ignore my condition and track the stuff in the house and all through it.

Sin is worse than dog poo ona a summer bare foot!
Good post

A gay lifestyle is a 24-7 sin.... there is no way, one can be saved and in that situation.  Those still in this SIN at their death will spend eternity in the Lake of Fire.

Blade
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on September 01, 2020, 12:06:20 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytPAHkNR5Tc&list=WL&index=4&t=0s
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on October 07, 2020, 11:41:23 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPYRXop7aPA&list=WL&index=27&t=78s
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on October 28, 2020, 04:14:06 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPYRXop7aPA&list=WL&index=27&t=78s
:(
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on October 31, 2020, 09:42:19 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPYRXop7aPA&list=WL&index=27&t=78s
:(
>:(
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: Bladerunner on October 31, 2020, 06:47:51 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPYRXop7aPA&list=WL&index=27&t=78s
:(
>:(

not a true christian
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on November 03, 2020, 08:28:11 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPYRXop7aPA&list=WL&index=27&t=78s
:(
>:(

not a true christian
Yep
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on November 04, 2020, 04:35:35 pm
 ::)
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: Bladerunner on November 04, 2020, 07:39:30 pm
::)

No since to have to study on it....the answer is NO!

Blade
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on November 06, 2020, 01:23:41 pm
::)

No since to have to study on it....the answer is NO!

Blade
Exactly
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on November 08, 2020, 03:14:15 pm
::)

No since to have to study on it....the answer is NO!

Blade
Exactly
;)
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: Bladerunner on November 09, 2020, 07:02:17 pm
::)

No since to have to study on it....the answer is NO!

Blade
Exactly
;)

:o
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on November 12, 2020, 09:47:04 am
::)

No since to have to study on it....the answer is NO!

Blade
Exactly
;)

:o
;D
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: Lori Bolinger on November 12, 2020, 11:28:14 am
My pov is sure to get me into trouble, but here it goes.

We cannot choose who we are attracted to, but we can choose what we do with that attraction.  For example, if we entertain lustful thoughts it is as if we commit adultery. 

I believe that homosexuality has a beautiful gift...let me explain...one of the most under talked about fruits of the Spirit is self-control and if there was ever any doubt, we all need to learn self-control over our sexual desires.  The homosexual that learns to exercise that self-control is yielding to the HS and has just received one of the greatest gifts God gives to His believers.  IOW's homosexuality is an opportunity to learn self-control just like poverty is an opportunity to learn to be content like no other lesson can teach us.
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on November 15, 2020, 09:12:54 am
My pov is sure to get me into trouble, but here it goes.

We cannot choose who we are attracted to, but we can choose what we do with that attraction.  For example, if we entertain lustful thoughts it is as if we commit adultery. 

I believe that homosexuality has a beautiful gift...let me explain...one of the most under talked about fruits of the Spirit is self-control and if there was ever any doubt, we all need to learn self-control over our sexual desires.  The homosexual that learns to exercise that self-control is yielding to the HS and has just received one of the greatest gifts God gives to His believers.  IOW's homosexuality is an opportunity to learn self-control just like poverty is an opportunity to learn to be content like no other lesson can teach us.
I can agree somewhat. However, I don't expect the number of gays in control of their lusts and desires to be any more or less than straight people, which is not a high percentage. Sexual deviance is one of the most insidious behaviors to engage in.
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: Bladerunner on November 15, 2020, 08:25:40 pm
My pov is sure to get me into trouble, but here it goes.

We cannot choose who we are attracted to, but we can choose what we do with that attraction.  For example, if we entertain lustful thoughts it is as if we commit adultery. 

I believe that homosexuality has a beautiful gift...let me explain...one of the most under talked about fruits of the Spirit is self-control and if there was ever any doubt, we all need to learn self-control over our sexual desires.  The homosexual that learns to exercise that self-control is yielding to the HS and has just received one of the greatest gifts God gives to His believers.  IOW's homosexuality is an opportunity to learn self-control just like poverty is an opportunity to learn to be content like no other lesson can teach us.

have to think of this a bit.

Blade
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: Lori Bolinger on November 16, 2020, 09:57:29 am
My pov is sure to get me into trouble, but here it goes.

We cannot choose who we are attracted to, but we can choose what we do with that attraction.  For example, if we entertain lustful thoughts it is as if we commit adultery. 

I believe that homosexuality has a beautiful gift...let me explain...one of the most under talked about fruits of the Spirit is self-control and if there was ever any doubt, we all need to learn self-control over our sexual desires.  The homosexual that learns to exercise that self-control is yielding to the HS and has just received one of the greatest gifts God gives to His believers.  IOW's homosexuality is an opportunity to learn self-control just like poverty is an opportunity to learn to be content like no other lesson can teach us.
I can agree somewhat. However, I don't expect the number of gays in control of their lusts and desires to be any more or less than straight people, which is not a high percentage. Sexual deviance is one of the most insidious behaviors to engage in.
the same can be said about poor people, just because they don't necessarily learn the lesson does NOT mean God didn't put it there for them to learn.   Look back at Gen. weeds are there to remind us to be righteous, just because most see weeds as something to get rid of, a curse to end, doesn't mean their purpose has changed.
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: Bladerunner on November 16, 2020, 07:51:15 pm
My pov is sure to get me into trouble, but here it goes.

We cannot choose who we are attracted to, but we can choose what we do with that attraction.  For example, if we entertain lustful thoughts it is as if we commit adultery. 

I believe that homosexuality has a beautiful gift...let me explain...one of the most under talked about fruits of the Spirit is self-control and if there was ever any doubt, we all need to learn self-control over our sexual desires.  The homosexual that learns to exercise that self-control is yielding to the HS and has just received one of the greatest gifts God gives to His believers.  IOW's homosexuality is an opportunity to learn self-control just like poverty is an opportunity to learn to be content like no other lesson can teach us.
I can agree somewhat. However, I don't expect the number of gays in control of their lusts and desires to be any more or less than straight people, which is not a high percentage. Sexual deviance is one of the most insidious behaviors to engage in.
the same can be said about poor people, just because they don't necessarily learn the lesson does NOT mean God didn't put it there for them to learn.   Look back at Gen. weeds are there to remind us to be righteous, just because most see weeds as something to get rid of, a curse to end, doesn't mean their purpose has changed.

If I am not mistaken, you are saying GOD put the homosexual tendencies in people????? If this is not what you are saying, please help.

Blade
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: Chaplain Mark Schmidt on November 16, 2020, 07:52:40 pm
My simple answer is that they can live a righteous Christian life.   I chose not to judge them as I understand Jesus' teaching to put forth.  While I may or may not agree with lifestyle choices or arguments that it is a choice or a DNA issue or anything else, I am not the final arbitrator of how they have lived their life.  If they live there life in an upstanding, righteous and Christian life then why shouldn't they have the same considerations as anyone else?

My in-laws, well the hardcore far-right Christians of the group say I am going to hell for not taking a hard stance.  My question to them that they have failed to even try to answer is: "When did God and Jesus give you the right to judge your fellow man?  I do not remember reading it anywhere in the Bible, Can not seem to find your name anywhere in there?"

I do not condemn anyone for the way you judge those as that is between you and the Holy Father, but do not try to make me judge the same if I believe it goes against the teachings.

This is just my humble opinion and postion
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: Lori Bolinger on November 17, 2020, 07:48:18 am
My pov is sure to get me into trouble, but here it goes.

We cannot choose who we are attracted to, but we can choose what we do with that attraction.  For example, if we entertain lustful thoughts it is as if we commit adultery. 

I believe that homosexuality has a beautiful gift...let me explain...one of the most under talked about fruits of the Spirit is self-control and if there was ever any doubt, we all need to learn self-control over our sexual desires.  The homosexual that learns to exercise that self-control is yielding to the HS and has just received one of the greatest gifts God gives to His believers.  IOW's homosexuality is an opportunity to learn self-control just like poverty is an opportunity to learn to be content like no other lesson can teach us.
I can agree somewhat. However, I don't expect the number of gays in control of their lusts and desires to be any more or less than straight people, which is not a high percentage. Sexual deviance is one of the most insidious behaviors to engage in.
the same can be said about poor people, just because they don't necessarily learn the lesson does NOT mean God didn't put it there for them to learn.   Look back at Gen. weeds are there to remind us to be righteous, just because most see weeds as something to get rid of, a curse to end, doesn't mean their purpose has changed.

If I am not mistaken, you are saying GOD put the homosexual tendencies in people????? If this is not what you are saying, please help.

Blade
I am saying that God is giving them a gift if they only use it...He KNITS us together in our mother's womb, you tell me which characteristics are left out of that knitting?
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: Lori Bolinger on November 17, 2020, 07:50:48 am
My simple answer is that they can live a righteous Christian life.   I chose not to judge them as I understand Jesus' teaching to put forth.  While I may or may not agree with lifestyle choices or arguments that it is a choice or a DNA issue or anything else, I am not the final arbitrator of how they have lived their life.  If they live there life in an upstanding, righteous and Christian life then why shouldn't they have the same considerations as anyone else?

My in-laws, well the hardcore far-right Christians of the group say I am going to hell for not taking a hard stance.  My question to them that they have failed to even try to answer is: "When did God and Jesus give you the right to judge your fellow man?  I do not remember reading it anywhere in the Bible, Can not seem to find your name anywhere in there?"

I do not condemn anyone for the way you judge those as that is between you and the Holy Father, but do not try to make me judge the same if I believe it goes against the teachings.

This is just my humble opinion and postion
My only response to this is that scripture tells us that if we see a brother in sin to try to help restore him without joining in his sin...iow's there is a difference between judging and turning our backs on a brother that needs our help to overcome a sin.
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on November 17, 2020, 04:52:07 pm
My simple answer is that they can live a righteous Christian life.   I chose not to judge them as I understand Jesus' teaching to put forth.  While I may or may not agree with lifestyle choices or arguments that it is a choice or a DNA issue or anything else, I am not the final arbitrator of how they have lived their life.  If they live there life in an upstanding, righteous and Christian life then why shouldn't they have the same considerations as anyone else?

My in-laws, well the hardcore far-right Christians of the group say I am going to hell for not taking a hard stance.  My question to them that they have failed to even try to answer is: "When did God and Jesus give you the right to judge your fellow man?  I do not remember reading it anywhere in the Bible, Can not seem to find your name anywhere in there?"

I do not condemn anyone for the way you judge those as that is between you and the Holy Father, but do not try to make me judge the same if I believe it goes against the teachings.

This is just my humble opinion and postion
My only response to this is that scripture tells us that if we see a brother in sin to try to help restore him without joining in his sin...iow's there is a difference between judging and turning our backs on a brother that needs our help to overcome a sin.
I see
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on November 19, 2020, 11:16:48 am
My simple answer is that they can live a righteous Christian life.   I chose not to judge them as I understand Jesus' teaching to put forth.  While I may or may not agree with lifestyle choices or arguments that it is a choice or a DNA issue or anything else, I am not the final arbitrator of how they have lived their life.  If they live there life in an upstanding, righteous and Christian life then why shouldn't they have the same considerations as anyone else?

My in-laws, well the hardcore far-right Christians of the group say I am going to hell for not taking a hard stance.  My question to them that they have failed to even try to answer is: "When did God and Jesus give you the right to judge your fellow man?  I do not remember reading it anywhere in the Bible, Can not seem to find your name anywhere in there?"

I do not condemn anyone for the way you judge those as that is between you and the Holy Father, but do not try to make me judge the same if I believe it goes against the teachings.

This is just my humble opinion and postion
My only response to this is that scripture tells us that if we see a brother in sin to try to help restore him without joining in his sin...iow's there is a difference between judging and turning our backs on a brother that needs our help to overcome a sin.
I see
:o
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: Bladerunner on November 19, 2020, 07:55:45 pm
My simple answer is that they can live a righteous Christian life.   I chose not to judge them as I understand Jesus' teaching to put forth.  While I may or may not agree with lifestyle choices or arguments that it is a choice or a DNA issue or anything else, I am not the final arbitrator of how they have lived their life.  If they live there life in an upstanding, righteous and Christian life then why shouldn't they have the same considerations as anyone else?

My in-laws, well the hardcore far-right Christians of the group say I am going to hell for not taking a hard stance.  My question to them that they have failed to even try to answer is: "When did God and Jesus give you the right to judge your fellow man?  I do not remember reading it anywhere in the Bible, Can not seem to find your name anywhere in there?"

I do not condemn anyone for the way you judge those as that is between you and the Holy Father, but do not try to make me judge the same if I believe it goes against the teachings.

This is just my humble opinion and postion
My only response to this is that scripture tells us that if we see a brother in sin to try to help restore him without joining in his sin...iow's there is a difference between judging and turning our backs on a brother that needs our help to overcome a sin.
I see
:o

If they have a propensity for the homosexual lifestyle, yet they steer away from it and follow the Gospel of Jesus Christ, I agree with you Mark. However, they cannot have both at the same time....Jesus does NOT say this.

Blade
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on November 20, 2020, 07:02:01 pm
My simple answer is that they can live a righteous Christian life.   I chose not to judge them as I understand Jesus' teaching to put forth.  While I may or may not agree with lifestyle choices or arguments that it is a choice or a DNA issue or anything else, I am not the final arbitrator of how they have lived their life.  If they live there life in an upstanding, righteous and Christian life then why shouldn't they have the same considerations as anyone else?

My in-laws, well the hardcore far-right Christians of the group say I am going to hell for not taking a hard stance.  My question to them that they have failed to even try to answer is: "When did God and Jesus give you the right to judge your fellow man?  I do not remember reading it anywhere in the Bible, Can not seem to find your name anywhere in there?"

I do not condemn anyone for the way you judge those as that is between you and the Holy Father, but do not try to make me judge the same if I believe it goes against the teachings.

This is just my humble opinion and postion
My only response to this is that scripture tells us that if we see a brother in sin to try to help restore him without joining in his sin...iow's there is a difference between judging and turning our backs on a brother that needs our help to overcome a sin.
I see
:o

If they have a propensity for the homosexual lifestyle, yet they steer away from it and follow the Gospel of Jesus Christ, I agree with you Mark. However, they cannot have both at the same time....Jesus does NOT say this.

Blade
Yep
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on November 25, 2020, 08:55:47 pm
 ;D
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: Bladerunner on November 25, 2020, 09:01:23 pm
;D

The US is under judgement of GOD three times. see Romans 1:24-25,26-27,28-32

Blade
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: Ted T. on November 26, 2020, 11:31:49 am
ImCo:
The term Christian is meaningless sin this case as too broad. It refers to anyone who claims to believe in Christ as saviour and who attends a church service in nominal fashion.

On the other hand the sinful elect will be cured of their addiction to evil by being reborn whether in a church or not and the reprobate non-elect who can never be saved as condemned already will never be reborn even if they are Christian overachievers wth a perfect lifestyle.

Our work, our theologies nor our life style do not save us, only a true living faith in Christ as Saviour which brought us under the election promise of salvation.

But living a sinful lifestyle is a pretty good sign one is not yet reborn.
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on November 27, 2020, 07:29:23 am
ImCo:
The term Christian is meaningless sin this case as too broad. It refers to anyone who claims to believe in Christ as saviour and who attends a church service in nominal fashion.

On the other hand the sinful elect will be cured of their addiction to evil by being reborn whether in a church or not and the reprobate non-elect who can never be saved as condemned already will never be reborn even if they are Christian overachievers wth a perfect lifestyle.

Our work, our theologies nor our life style do not save us, only a true living faith in Christ as Saviour which brought us under the election promise of salvation.

But living a sinful lifestyle is a pretty good sign one is not yet reborn.
Yep
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on November 28, 2020, 04:08:03 am
ImCo:
The term Christian is meaningless sin this case as too broad. It refers to anyone who claims to believe in Christ as saviour and who attends a church service in nominal fashion.

On the other hand the sinful elect will be cured of their addiction to evil by being reborn whether in a church or not and the reprobate non-elect who can never be saved as condemned already will never be reborn even if they are Christian overachievers wth a perfect lifestyle.

Our work, our theologies nor our life style do not save us, only a true living faith in Christ as Saviour which brought us under the election promise of salvation.

But living a sinful lifestyle is a pretty good sign one is not yet reborn.
Yep
;D
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: Bladerunner on November 29, 2020, 06:14:49 pm
ImCo:
The term Christian is meaningless sin this case as too broad. It refers to anyone who claims to believe in Christ as saviour and who attends a church service in nominal fashion.


But you failed to define the sin that is too broad? The title is a simple question that was answered by both God (the father) and Jesus. Homosexuality is an abomination that even in Romans 1, Jesus has given over to those who practice this lifestyle, "over unto themselves" three times.

This is the sin....even if they are cardboard Christians it still is a sin that will be reckoned with in the end. Either they have to repent by turning away from this sin and toward GOD or they don't; there is no in-between!

On the other hand the sinful elect will be cured of their addiction to evil by being reborn whether in a church or not and the reprobate non-elect who can never be saved as condemned already will never be reborn even if they are Christian overachievers with a perfect lifestyle.

There is no perfect lifestyle. Those that have not chosen Jesus as their savior by free choice or for what ever reason there was, Jesus has chosen not to elect them.


Our work, our theologies nor our life style do not save us, only a true living faith in Christ as Saviour which brought us under the election promise of salvation.

But living a sinful lifestyle is a pretty good sign one is not yet reborn.
Yep

This I can agree yet I would like to highlight one of YOUR words TED...
"pretty good sign one is not yet reborn."

Until all the tribulation saints have been taken to heaven, the millennium is fixing to begin and there are no more believers on earth, there is hope for all who want to change.

Blade




;D
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on December 02, 2020, 08:59:56 pm
 ;)
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on December 03, 2020, 06:22:12 pm
;)
:o
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on December 05, 2020, 09:30:46 am
;)
:o
>:(
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on December 06, 2020, 02:43:40 pm
;)
:o
>:(
Ask Billy - just kiddin'  :o
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on December 08, 2020, 06:25:55 am
;)
:o
>:(
Ask Billy - just kiddin'  :o
;D
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on December 10, 2020, 06:57:27 am
 :D
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on December 12, 2020, 07:00:16 am
:D
;D
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on December 14, 2020, 09:07:25 am
:D
;D
Ask Billy  :o
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on December 16, 2020, 12:49:16 pm
:D
;D
Ask Billy  :o
;D
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on December 17, 2020, 07:20:40 am
Billy knows
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on December 18, 2020, 08:49:33 am
Billy knows
Light in the loafers? :D
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on December 19, 2020, 07:27:45 am
Billy knows
Light in the loafers? :D
;D
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on December 21, 2020, 07:44:11 am
Billy knows
Light in the loafers? :D
;D
:o
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on December 22, 2020, 04:39:59 am
Billy knows
Light in the loafers? :D
;D
:o
;)
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on December 22, 2020, 05:52:51 am
 ;)
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on December 23, 2020, 07:36:58 pm
;)
:-[
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on December 25, 2020, 08:39:59 am
;)
:-[
;D
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on December 26, 2020, 10:07:05 am
;)
:-[
;D
Billy knows
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on December 27, 2020, 09:24:13 pm
;)
:-[
;D
Billy knows
:o ::)
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on December 28, 2020, 05:45:48 am
Billy
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: Bladerunner on December 28, 2020, 09:31:09 pm
Billy

The USA has been under judgement of Romans 1 since around the 1970-80's. With Biden in office ??, the third part (having started around 2012-2015) will show just bad the "reprobate mind" really is.

Blade
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on December 29, 2020, 07:02:18 am
Billy

The USA has been under judgement of Romans 1 since around the 1970-80's. With Biden in office ??, the third part (having started around 2012-2015) will show just bad the "reprobate mind" really is.

Blade
Yes
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on December 30, 2020, 07:48:58 am
Billy

The USA has been under judgement of Romans 1 since around the 1970-80's. With Biden in office ??, the third part (having started around 2012-2015) will show just bad the "reprobate mind" really is.

Blade
Yes
:(
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on December 31, 2020, 11:51:01 pm
Billy

The USA has been under judgement of Romans 1 since around the 1970-80's. With Biden in office ??, the third part (having started around 2012-2015) will show just bad the "reprobate mind" really is.

Blade
Yes
:(
>:(
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on January 02, 2021, 07:39:50 am
Billy

The USA has been under judgement of Romans 1 since around the 1970-80's. With Biden in office ??, the third part (having started around 2012-2015) will show just bad the "reprobate mind" really is.

Blade
Yes
:(
>:(
:(
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on January 03, 2021, 08:45:22 am
 ;D
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on January 06, 2021, 08:53:40 am
;D
:D
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on January 09, 2021, 06:51:49 am
;D
:D
>:(
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on January 11, 2021, 09:56:01 pm
;D
:D
>:(
;D
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on January 13, 2021, 10:32:58 am
;D
:D
>:(
;D
:D
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on January 14, 2021, 09:37:40 am
 ;)
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on January 15, 2021, 09:37:12 pm
;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddi2TBnzdPo


Trump Silent Running Video:
https://rumble.com/vb5dzb-trump-silent-running-by-justin-bellucci.html



Silent Running


Take the children and yourself
And hide out in the cellar
By now the fighting will be close at hand


Don't believe the church and state
And everything they tell you
Believe in me, I'm with the high command


Can you hear me, can you hear me running?
Can you hear me running, can you hear me calling you?
Can you hear me, can you hear me running?
Can you hear me running, can you hear me calling you?


There's a gun and ammunition
Just inside the doorway
Use it only in emergency


Better you should pray to God
The Father and the Spirit
Will guide you and protect from up here


Can you hear me, can you hear me running?
Can you hear me running, can you hear me calling you?
Can you hear me, can you hear me running?
Can you hear me running, can you hear me calling you?


Swear allegiance to the flag
Whatever flag they offer
Never hint at what you really feel


Teach the children quietly
For some day sons and daughters
Will rise up and fight while we stood still


Can you hear me, can you hear me running?
Can you hear me running, can you hear me calling you?
Can you hear me, can you hear me running?
Can you hear me running, can you hear me calling you?


Can you hear me, can you hear me running?
Can you hear me running, can you hear me calling you?
Can you hear me running (can you hear me calling you?)
(Can you hear me) hear me calling you?
(Can you hear me running) hear me running babe?
(Can you hear me running) hear me running?
Calling you, calling you




Source: Musixmatch
Songwriters: Michael Rutherford / Baxter Robertson
Silent Running lyrics © Michael Rutherford Publishing Ltd., R And Ba Music Ltd
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on January 17, 2021, 04:56:59 pm
;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddi2TBnzdPo


Trump Silent Running Video:
https://rumble.com/vb5dzb-trump-silent-running-by-justin-bellucci.html



Silent Running


Take the children and yourself
And hide out in the cellar
By now the fighting will be close at hand


Don't believe the church and state
And everything they tell you
Believe in me, I'm with the high command


Can you hear me, can you hear me running?
Can you hear me running, can you hear me calling you?
Can you hear me, can you hear me running?
Can you hear me running, can you hear me calling you?


There's a gun and ammunition
Just inside the doorway
Use it only in emergency


Better you should pray to God
The Father and the Spirit
Will guide you and protect from up here


Can you hear me, can you hear me running?
Can you hear me running, can you hear me calling you?
Can you hear me, can you hear me running?
Can you hear me running, can you hear me calling you?


Swear allegiance to the flag
Whatever flag they offer
Never hint at what you really feel


Teach the children quietly
For some day sons and daughters
Will rise up and fight while we stood still


Can you hear me, can you hear me running?
Can you hear me running, can you hear me calling you?
Can you hear me, can you hear me running?
Can you hear me running, can you hear me calling you?


Can you hear me, can you hear me running?
Can you hear me running, can you hear me calling you?
Can you hear me running (can you hear me calling you?)
(Can you hear me) hear me calling you?
(Can you hear me running) hear me running babe?
(Can you hear me running) hear me running?
Calling you, calling you




Source: Musixmatch
Songwriters: Michael Rutherford / Baxter Robertson
Silent Running lyrics © Michael Rutherford Publishing Ltd., R And Ba Music Ltd

:(
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on January 19, 2021, 06:49:49 pm
 ;)
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on January 21, 2021, 04:37:19 am
;)
:D
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on January 25, 2021, 05:00:10 pm
;)
:D
8)
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on March 01, 2021, 08:54:45 pm
;)
:D
8)
;D
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on March 27, 2021, 09:39:29 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xfu70qKNqW8
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: Bladerunner on March 29, 2021, 07:46:09 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xfu70qKNqW8

only one way...



Blade
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: patrick jane on July 13, 2021, 11:23:56 am
(https://www-images.christianitytoday.com/images/124236.jpg?w=940)
https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2021/july-august/conversion-therapy-bans-ex-gay-global-lgbt-laws.html








‘Pray Away the Gay’ Has Gone Away. Why Are Governments Trying to Stop It?







Nations around the globe are pushing bans on conversion therapy, some without defining what it is.


When the Evangelical Alliance of the United Kingdom wrote Prime Minister Boris Johnson about the country’s push to ban conversion therapy, its first request was that lawmakers define the term.

Conversion therapy has become a vague catchall that can refer to abusive and even violent efforts to change someone’s sexual orientation but also can be construed to mean any religious act that doesn’t affirm LGBT identities. In addition to proposals in the UK and Canada, bans have been enacted in Malta, Germany, Spain, Ecuador, Brazil, Taiwan, Australia, and 20 US states—some carefully defining conversion therapy, some not.

The term often evokes the most extreme attempts to eliminate unwanted same-sex attraction: shock therapy, exorcisms, forced heterosexual marriages, and even rape. More commonly, conversion therapy ministries have promised that people could overcome their desires through prayer, discipleship, and counseling.

In the past decade, however, even that kind of conversion therapy has mostly disappeared. Exodus International, evangelicalism’s flagship ex-gay ministry, shut down in 2013 after former leader Alan Chambers said it had caused pain and harm to too many people and that more than 99 percent of those who’d sought help there hadn’t actually experienced an orientation change. No major organization has emerged to take its place, and conversion therapy has fallen out of practice.

Psychologist Mark Yarhouse, director of Wheaton College’s Sexual and Gender Identity Institute, said that while some smaller organizations persist in prayer ministries aimed at changing people’s sexual orientation, he’s not aware of any major groups, mainstream evangelical ministries, or professional Christian counselors who practice any version of conversion therapy.

And yet, as the practice itself has all but disappeared, public campaigns to ban it are growing around the world. Some Christians worry that new regulations with poor definitions will take aim at what the UK Evangelical Alliance calls “everyday aspects” of church life.

A new law in Victoria, Australia, for example, will ban “religious practices, including but not limited to a prayer-based practice” aimed at “changing or suppressing the sexual orientation.” The government also says conversion therapy is illegal “with or without the person’s consent.” It is not yet clear how the law, which goes into effect in February 2022, will be applied, but it could criminalize praying for people who ask for prayer.

Australian pastor and writer Stephen McAlpine says the law is intended to challenge Christian teachings on sexuality.

“They’re looking for churches to self-censor,” he said. “It’s not like there’s churches doing lots of conversion therapy. It’s prayer groups where someone comes to you and says, ‘I’ve got unwanted same-sex desires. Could you pray for me?’ ”

McAlpine worries that Victoria’s new law will prompt pastors to say no. “Churches are going to actually pastor people less,” he said.

While ministries including Exodus International and Focus on the Family used to preach that homosexual desire should be eliminated, most evangelical churches, pastors, and mental health professionals today emphasize chastity amid desires that might last a lifetime. “Conversion” is no longer the goal—faithfulness is.

“There’s a greater proportion [of Christians] today that see it as more of an enduring reality,” Yarhouse said. “The person may experience same-sex sexuality, but now it’s, ‘How do I live with it?’ ”

Even the Nashville Statement, a 14-point manifesto by the complementarian Council of Biblical Manhood and Womanhood, maintains that homosexual desire may never change. “We affirm that people who experience sexual attraction for the same sex may live a rich and fruitful life pleasing to God through faith in Jesus Christ, as they, like all Christians, walk in purity of life,” it reads.

Licensed counselor Jen Simmons says she has counseled clients and walked alongside friends who are same-sex attracted but have chosen celibacy or to marry someone of the opposite sex. She doesn’t try to change their orientation, but helps them develop skills to cope with unwanted same-sex attraction.

Simmons says therapy that promises to change a person’s sexual orientation is unethical, harmful, and simply impossible.

“Just like if someone has a genetic and biological propensity to anxiety, and they came in saying, ‘I want you to make my anxiety go away,’ ” she said. “I could never promise that.”

Still, Simmons is concerned about conversion therapy bans, since some of them, such as Australia’s, could target her work and prohibit “even just introducing a biblical ethic or talking about the biblical view of marriage,” she said.

Jayne Ozanne, founder of the Ozanne Foundation and the Global Interfaith Commission on LGBTQ+ Lives, which advocates for a national conversion therapy ban in the UK, said such a law is necessary to curb self-harm and suicide among those who identify as LGBT. A 2019 government survey found that only 2 percent of LGBT people in the UK had undergone conversion therapy, but she believes it still happens widely.

Ozanne, a lesbian evangelical, says she was repeatedly told while growing up in church that God would change her orientation if she prayed hard enough. When it didn’t happen, she not only felt shamed, but it shook her faith.

She pushes back on concerns that conversion therapy bans would muzzle therapists, but she has confirmed some evangelicals’ fears: She believes the bans need to focus on what’s going on inside churches. She says that prayer ministry teams “aren’t as regulated as we’d like to think they are” and untrained professionals, like pastors or lay ministers, shouldn’t be talking to people about things like sexual orientation. Ozanne hopes the conversion therapy ban in Victoria, Australia, will be used as a model in the rest of the world.


(https://www-images.christianitytoday.com/images/124248.jpg?h=1173&w=300)


In the US, where there are lots of protections for speech, federal courts have struck down bans in two Florida cities on First Amendment grounds. The bans that have withstood challenges have been more narrowly focused: In Virginia and other jurisdictions, the therapy is banned only for minors.

Most bans in the US also explicitly exempt churches and pastors, though they can still threaten Christian professionals, according to Matt Sharp, an attorney with Alliance Defending Freedom.

At the same time, licenced counselors are rarely trying to change orientation. Simmons said that when issues of sexuality come up, she is more likely to appeal to the science of trauma and attachment than she is to cite Scripture.

“We can rely on what’s true,” she said. “We can rely on a lot that’s being discovered in science...all truth is God’s truth.”

Maria Baer is a contributing writer for CT and is based in Columbus, Ohio.
Title: Re: Can Someone Living a Gay Lifestyle Be a Christian?
Post by: Bladerunner on July 13, 2021, 07:33:23 pm
(https://www-images.christianitytoday.com/images/124236.jpg?w=940)
https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2021/july-august/conversion-therapy-bans-ex-gay-global-lgbt-laws.html








‘Pray Away the Gay’ Has Gone Away. Why Are Governments Trying to Stop It?







Nations around the globe are pushing bans on conversion therapy, some without defining what it is.


When the Evangelical Alliance of the United Kingdom wrote Prime Minister Boris Johnson about the country’s push to ban conversion therapy, its first request was that lawmakers define the term.

Conversion therapy has become a vague catchall that can refer to abusive and even violent efforts to change someone’s sexual orientation but also can be construed to mean any religious act that doesn’t affirm LGBT identities. In addition to proposals in the UK and Canada, bans have been enacted in Malta, Germany, Spain, Ecuador, Brazil, Taiwan, Australia, and 20 US states—some carefully defining conversion therapy, some not.

The term often evokes the most extreme attempts to eliminate unwanted same-sex attraction: shock therapy, exorcisms, forced heterosexual marriages, and even rape. More commonly, conversion therapy ministries have promised that people could overcome their desires through prayer, discipleship, and counseling.

In the past decade, however, even that kind of conversion therapy has mostly disappeared. Exodus International, evangelicalism’s flagship ex-gay ministry, shut down in 2013 after former leader Alan Chambers said it had caused pain and harm to too many people and that more than 99 percent of those who’d sought help there hadn’t actually experienced an orientation change. No major organization has emerged to take its place, and conversion therapy has fallen out of practice.

Psychologist Mark Yarhouse, director of Wheaton College’s Sexual and Gender Identity Institute, said that while some smaller organizations persist in prayer ministries aimed at changing people’s sexual orientation, he’s not aware of any major groups, mainstream evangelical ministries, or professional Christian counselors who practice any version of conversion therapy.

And yet, as the practice itself has all but disappeared, public campaigns to ban it are growing around the world. Some Christians worry that new regulations with poor definitions will take aim at what the UK Evangelical Alliance calls “everyday aspects” of church life.

A new law in Victoria, Australia, for example, will ban “religious practices, including but not limited to a prayer-based practice” aimed at “changing or suppressing the sexual orientation.” The government also says conversion therapy is illegal “with or without the person’s consent.” It is not yet clear how the law, which goes into effect in February 2022, will be applied, but it could criminalize praying for people who ask for prayer.

Australian pastor and writer Stephen McAlpine says the law is intended to challenge Christian teachings on sexuality.

“They’re looking for churches to self-censor,” he said. “It’s not like there’s churches doing lots of conversion therapy. It’s prayer groups where someone comes to you and says, ‘I’ve got unwanted same-sex desires. Could you pray for me?’ ”

McAlpine worries that Victoria’s new law will prompt pastors to say no. “Churches are going to actually pastor people less,” he said.

While ministries including Exodus International and Focus on the Family used to preach that homosexual desire should be eliminated, most evangelical churches, pastors, and mental health professionals today emphasize chastity amid desires that might last a lifetime. “Conversion” is no longer the goal—faithfulness is.

“There’s a greater proportion [of Christians] today that see it as more of an enduring reality,” Yarhouse said. “The person may experience same-sex sexuality, but now it’s, ‘How do I live with it?’ ”

Even the Nashville Statement, a 14-point manifesto by the complementarian Council of Biblical Manhood and Womanhood, maintains that homosexual desire may never change. “We affirm that people who experience sexual attraction for the same sex may live a rich and fruitful life pleasing to God through faith in Jesus Christ, as they, like all Christians, walk in purity of life,” it reads.

Licensed counselor Jen Simmons says she has counseled clients and walked alongside friends who are same-sex attracted but have chosen celibacy or to marry someone of the opposite sex. She doesn’t try to change their orientation, but helps them develop skills to cope with unwanted same-sex attraction.

Simmons says therapy that promises to change a person’s sexual orientation is unethical, harmful, and simply impossible.

“Just like if someone has a genetic and biological propensity to anxiety, and they came in saying, ‘I want you to make my anxiety go away,’ ” she said. “I could never promise that.”

Still, Simmons is concerned about conversion therapy bans, since some of them, such as Australia’s, could target her work and prohibit “even just introducing a biblical ethic or talking about the biblical view of marriage,” she said.

Jayne Ozanne, founder of the Ozanne Foundation and the Global Interfaith Commission on LGBTQ+ Lives, which advocates for a national conversion therapy ban in the UK, said such a law is necessary to curb self-harm and suicide among those who identify as LGBT. A 2019 government survey found that only 2 percent of LGBT people in the UK had undergone conversion therapy, but she believes it still happens widely.

Ozanne, a lesbian evangelical, says she was repeatedly told while growing up in church that God would change her orientation if she prayed hard enough. When it didn’t happen, she not only felt shamed, but it shook her faith.

She pushes back on concerns that conversion therapy bans would muzzle therapists, but she has confirmed some evangelicals’ fears: She believes the bans need to focus on what’s going on inside churches. She says that prayer ministry teams “aren’t as regulated as we’d like to think they are” and untrained professionals, like pastors or lay ministers, shouldn’t be talking to people about things like sexual orientation. Ozanne hopes the conversion therapy ban in Victoria, Australia, will be used as a model in the rest of the world.


(https://www-images.christianitytoday.com/images/124248.jpg?h=1173&w=300)


In the US, where there are lots of protections for speech, federal courts have struck down bans in two Florida cities on First Amendment grounds. The bans that have withstood challenges have been more narrowly focused: In Virginia and other jurisdictions, the therapy is banned only for minors.

Most bans in the US also explicitly exempt churches and pastors, though they can still threaten Christian professionals, according to Matt Sharp, an attorney with Alliance Defending Freedom.

At the same time, licenced counselors are rarely trying to change orientation. Simmons said that when issues of sexuality come up, she is more likely to appeal to the science of trauma and attachment than she is to cite Scripture.

“We can rely on what’s true,” she said. “We can rely on a lot that’s being discovered in science...all truth is God’s truth.”

Maria Baer is a contributing writer for CT and is based in Columbus, Ohio.


For churches that submit to the ban and succumb to the will of the government are guilty of "Falling Away" from God's Word.

Blade