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CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY with BLADERUNNER, LORI BOLINGER and BILLY EVMUR => *Bladerunner | Theology | Words of God => Topic started by: Bladerunner on October 08, 2018, 12:25:35 am

Title: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden: Comment
Post by: Bladerunner on October 08, 2018, 12:25:35 am
How Long did Adam and Eve Stay in Eden

 *Satan was a Murderer from the Beginning.  This is what Jesus tells us in John 8:14. When Satan deceived EVE, his lie not only killed Adam and Eve but he also killed us all. (all of their descendents). A murderer from the Beginning without a doubt. (1)

*We know that at Seith's birth Adam was 130 years old.(2)

*After the murder of Abel by Cain, we find the Population of the world was very significant as there were people throughout the region including east of the Euphrates River (NOD)
 
(1) Cain was afraid others would kill Him.
 
(2) He took a wife from the land of NOD East of EDEN.

To produce a substantial population that would allow this number of population in other parts of the world (NOD) in only 130 years;  the first Reproductive cycle of Eve could not have been missed. The first child of Adam and Eve (Cain) had to be close to the Fall as there was no birth's during their time in Eden.

After Adam and Eve were created, God told them to go forth and multiply. (Gen 1:28). Since their bodies would have been perfect condition and they would have "in tune" with each other, Eve would have been able to conceive within the first reproductive cycle.

Keep in mind, there was NO conception prior to the fall as we are told in Gen 4:1 (after the Fall)  Eve conceived Cain.

IF we consider the Female reproductive cycle was the same in Eden as it is now and has been for centuries after the fall, it would place her first cycle beginning within two weeks to a month after her creation.

IF we consider that the Beginning of Creation started on Tishrei 1 ( the Jewish New Year) and (3),

IF the "Wedding Chamber" (a type of the ancient Jewish Wedding ceremony)  leaves the groom and bride in the wedding chamber for seven days; They (the Groom and Bride) were left alone for those seven days. This seven days takes us through the 13th day and God would have talked to them on the 14th day since creation.(4)

Then GOD gave Adam and Eve sacrificed animal skins (Gen 3:21) on the 14th day. A future Day (the 14th day of the FIRST month) that will become passover, sacrifice of the Lamb.(5)

This same 14th day God removed them from Eden. The days Adam and Eve were in Eden in my opinion would have be eight days at the most. The seventh day of Creation was for rest. The Wedding Chamber typology (6) would have been started on the first day of the week or Saturday evening ending on Saturday evening. God would have talked with them on the first day of the week 14th day since the beginning of creation, Sunday.

Blade


(1) Truth: in defense of the PRe-Trib Rapture, page 98
(2) Genesis 5:3
(3) Koinonia House, "The Feast of Trumpets"
(4) Koinonia House, "The Wedding Model".
(5) Lev 23:5
(6)  (Genesis 29:21-23, 27-28) for the seven days of the huppah
Title: Re: How long was Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Theo102 on October 08, 2018, 02:10:04 am
Quote
Satan was a Murderer from the Beginning.  This is what Jesus tells us in John 8:14.
No, in John 8:44 he calls the devil a murderer, not Satan. Also the doctrine of original sin fails of the presumption of innocence.
Title: Re: How long was Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: 1Mind1Spirit on October 08, 2018, 02:22:35 am
Quote
Satan was a Murderer from the Beginning.  This is what Jesus tells us in John 8:14.
No, in John 8:44 he calls the devil a murderer, not Satan. Also the doctrine of original sin fails of the presumption of innocence.


This is kind of a derail but I will answer.

The doctrine of original sin stands on the same principle as Levy tithing while still in Abraham's loins.


We sinned while still in Adam's loins.
Title: Re: How long was Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Bladerunner on October 08, 2018, 07:20:37 pm
Quote
Satan was a Murderer from the Beginning.  This is what Jesus tells us in John 8:14.
No, in John 8:44 he calls the devil a murderer, not Satan. Also the doctrine of original sin fails of the presumption of innocence.

OK, is the devil; not Satan, prince of the air and a bunch of other names for him.

you must be one of those lawyers... There was no presumption of innocence, they were quilty and GOD judged them.

Blade
Title: Re: How long was Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Theo102 on October 08, 2018, 11:58:28 pm
you must be one of those lawyers... There was no presumption of innocence, they were quilty and GOD judged them.

No, the presumption of innocence is implied by the requirement for witnesses for crimes worthy of death. You're just repeating Pauline doctrine.
Title: Re: How long was Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Bladerunner on October 12, 2018, 08:21:39 pm
you must be one of those lawyers... There was no presumption of innocence, they were quilty and GOD judged them.

No, the presumption of innocence is implied by the requirement for witnesses for crimes worthy of death. You're just repeating Pauline doctrine.

God had two witnesses. Satan and Adam. that EVE ate the fruit. It would have been her death (implied).

Since their bodies were of Light, this must have disappeared immediately after eating the fruit (also implied) for they knew they were naked.

Of course, Adam loved Eve SOooooooo much(implied) that he ate the fruit in place of doing without her. This is implied in the story.

As one older scholar once said: I certainly don't love you that much to give up my salvation. Would I lose it to save my wife. YES!

BLade

Title: Re: How long was Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Theo102 on October 13, 2018, 03:06:22 pm
Quote
God had two witnesses. Satan and Adam.
"God" is ambiguous, and in context Adam isn't a proper name. האדמ = the man
Title: Re: How long was Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Bladerunner on October 14, 2018, 07:28:10 pm
Quote
God had two witnesses. Satan and Adam.
"God" is ambiguous, and in context Adam isn't a proper name. האדמ = the man

 God ambiguous? Why do you say that?

 in context Adam isn't a proper name. האדמ = the man

 ʼÂdâm, aw-dawm'; the same as H120; Adam the name of the first man, also of a place in Palestine:—Adam.

h120
אָדָם 'adam

Are you trying to convert everyone to Judaism?

Blade
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: patrick jane on December 20, 2018, 01:43:46 pm
How Long did Adam and Eve Stay in Eden

 *Satan was a Murderer from the Beginning.  This is what Jesus tells us in John 8:14. When Satan deceived EVE, his lie not only killed Adam and Eve but he also killed us all. (all of their descendents). A murderer from the Beginning without a doubt. (1)

*We know that at Seith's birth Adam was 130 years old.(2)

*After the murder of Abel by Cain, we find the Population of the world was very significant as there were people throughout the region including east of the Euphrates River (NOD)
 
(1) Cain was afraid others would kill Him.
 
(2) He took a wife from the land of NOD East of EDEN.

To produce a substantial population that would allow this number of population in other parts of the world (NOD) in only 130 years;  the first Reproductive cycle of Eve could not have been missed. The first child of Adam and Eve (Cain) had to be close to the Fall as there was no birth's during their time in Eden.

After Adam and Eve were created, God told them to go forth and multiply. (Gen 1:28). Since their bodies would have been perfect condition and they would have "in tune" with each other, Eve would have been able to conceive within the first reproductive cycle.

Keep in mind, there was NO conception prior to the fall as we are told in Gen 4:1 (after the Fall)  Eve conceived Cain.

IF we consider the Female reproductive cycle was the same in Eden as it is now and has been for centuries after the fall, it would place her first cycle beginning within two weeks to a month after her creation.

IF we consider that the Beginning of Creation started on Tishrei 1 ( the Jewish New Year) and (3),

IF the "Wedding Chamber" (a type of the ancient Jewish Wedding ceremony)  leaves the groom and bride in the wedding chamber for seven days; They (the Groom and Bride) were left alone for those seven days. This seven days takes us through the 13th day and God would have talked to them on the 14th day since creation.(4)

Then GOD gave Adam and Eve sacrificed animal skins (Gen 3:21) on the 14th day. A future Day (the 14th day of the FIRST month) that will become passover, sacrifice of the Lamb.(5)

This same 14th day God removed them from Eden. The days Adam and Eve were in Eden in my opinion would have be eight days at the most. The seventh day of Creation was for rest. The Wedding Chamber typology (6) would have been started on the first day of the week or Saturday evening ending on Saturday evening. God would have talked with them on the first day of the week 14th day since the beginning of creation, Sunday.

Blade


(1) Truth: in defense of the PRe-Trib Rapture, page 98
(2) Genesis 5:3
(3) Koinonia House, "The Feast of Trumpets"
(4) Koinonia House, "The Wedding Model".
(5) Lev 23:5
(6)  (Genesis 29:21-23, 27-28) for the seven days of the huppah
I can't argue with that timeline Blade. Very good analysis. I believe you are 100% correct.
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Arius on January 20, 2019, 02:16:11 am
How Long did Adam and Eve Stay in Eden

 *Satan was a Murderer from the Beginning.  This is what Jesus tells us in John 8:14. When Satan deceived EVE, his lie not only killed Adam and Eve but he also killed us all. (all of their descendents). A murderer from the Beginning without a doubt. (1)

*We know that at Seith's birth Adam was 130 years old.(2)

*After the murder of Abel by Cain, we find the Population of the world was very significant as there were people throughout the region including east of the Euphrates River (NOD)
 
(1) Cain was afraid others would kill Him.
 
(2) He took a wife from the land of NOD East of EDEN.

To produce a substantial population that would allow this number of population in other parts of the world (NOD) in only 130 years;  the first Reproductive cycle of Eve could not have been missed. The first child of Adam and Eve (Cain) had to be close to the Fall as there was no birth's during their time in Eden.

After Adam and Eve were created, God told them to go forth and multiply. (Gen 1:28). Since their bodies would have been perfect condition and they would have "in tune" with each other, Eve would have been able to conceive within the first reproductive cycle.

Keep in mind, there was NO conception prior to the fall as we are told in Gen 4:1 (after the Fall)  Eve conceived Cain.

IF we consider the Female reproductive cycle was the same in Eden as it is now and has been for centuries after the fall, it would place her first cycle beginning within two weeks to a month after her creation.

IF we consider that the Beginning of Creation started on Tishrei 1 ( the Jewish New Year) and (3),

IF the "Wedding Chamber" (a type of the ancient Jewish Wedding ceremony)  leaves the groom and bride in the wedding chamber for seven days; They (the Groom and Bride) were left alone for those seven days. This seven days takes us through the 13th day and God would have talked to them on the 14th day since creation.(4)

Then GOD gave Adam and Eve sacrificed animal skins (Gen 3:21) on the 14th day. A future Day (the 14th day of the FIRST month) that will become passover, sacrifice of the Lamb.(5)

This same 14th day God removed them from Eden. The days Adam and Eve were in Eden in my opinion would have be eight days at the most. The seventh day of Creation was for rest. The Wedding Chamber typology (6) would have been started on the first day of the week or Saturday evening ending on Saturday evening. God would have talked with them on the first day of the week 14th day since the beginning of creation, Sunday.

Blade


(1) Truth: in defense of the PRe-Trib Rapture, page 98
(2) Genesis 5:3
(3) Koinonia House, "The Feast of Trumpets"
(4) Koinonia House, "The Wedding Model".
(5) Lev 23:5
(6)  (Genesis 29:21-23, 27-28) for the seven days of the huppah

Wow, neat analysis, love you guys here.

How long were Adam and Eve in the Garden, before and after they sinned, and their days numbered?

Well we know how long they stayed after they sinned, for that very day God kicked them out to the surrounding area of Eden. So let's see how long Adam, then Adam and Eve were in the garden before they sinned?

God created Adam first,

Genesis 2:4 This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, 5 before any plant of the field was in the earth and before any herb of the field had grown. For the Lord God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to till the ground; 6 but a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground.
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.


Life in God’s Garden

8 The Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there He put the man whom He had formed.

We don't get lonely that fast, not when we enjoy doing what we love. Adam must have been keeping himself busy keeping the garden, all the different plants, flowers, fruit bushes and trees, I know it would keep me busy for many years! But yes, without  wildlife around gardening would eventually get boring, and this is what God noticed there was something missing in Adams life, so:

.. 18 And the Lord God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.”
19 Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name.


It must have taken Adam a long time to name all the animals, millions of species, but what is "time" when you live in eternity? Adam never aged through all this, it is not mentioned how old he was when he started naming the animals, nor how long it took him, (like with Noah, it documents everything.) So we can safely assume that Adam was in the Garden for many more years now with pets around!

20 So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him.

He must have enjoyed meeting all the animals God created just for him, to keep him company, and I'm sure he was surrounded by pets. A Lyon here, an Elephant there, a few monkeys to make him laugh, some parrots who he could teach to talk, beautiful pheasants etc.  but again, this is in eternity, no time is counted in eternity, the sun comes up, and the sun sets, day after day and Adam does not age.

Whatever age God created Adam at (I doubt God created him as a baby) Adam stayed that same age for many, many years, decades, centuries, even millennia, it does not say, but he must have been busy all the time, and now that he had all the animals, millions of them to keep him company, it must have taken a long time for him to get bored of them all, I know I could easily live a few todays lifetimes before I get bored of millions of exotic, funny, interesting pets, while I do my gardening, and I'm sure many here would agree!? Matter of fact, there was a survey of men and women who were asked the question: If you were stranded on an island, and if you had a choice, who would you choose to be stranded with, .. your favorite pet, or your husband/wife" An amazingly higher percentage chose the pet. But I doubt these were Believers? lol

and so we read that once again God noticed: "But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him." That he eventually got tired of changing pets, having from a few hundred at a time to just a few he really liked (I'm just going by what I would of done not knowing anything else, because there were no other humans around. I know I could live for many years, even lifetimes if I could have any animal I wanted for pets, for company. Play with them, run with them, train them etc. and this while I was gardening, growing my own food, fruit trees etc. I'm just going by what I would of done not knowing any other humans existed!?
Anyways, God seen that once again Adam got bored:

Genesis 2:21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. 22 Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.

OK, so we have Adam and Eve now, what did God tell them when He created Eve for Adam?

Genesis 1:28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

So what do you think Adam and Eve did the next, .. oh we don't know how long because passing of time is not counted in eternity, before they sinned, so I would say they did what commanded them to do: were fruitful and multiplied.
We read later on that they had tribes, villages, and maybe even cities all around Eden, that's where Cain went. They are the ones who he thought would kill him after God put a mark on him!

There was no need to mention the children in eternity, or in the Garden, what is mentioned is the first children Adam and Eve had "after the fall", outside the Garden. Eve knew God was angry at her, and probably thought God will not bless her with children again for who knows how long? God did shut the womb of many women throughout Biblical history.

Genesis 3:22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 23 therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

Genesis 4:1 Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, “I have acquired a man from the Lord.” 2 Then she bore again, this time his brother Abel.


Here is when genealogy started, not in the Garden in eternity, but when genealogy mattered, when man was dying a little bit more every day, and they knew that just as God promised, that: "this day (Gods Day within 1,000 years) you will die!" This was the beginning of the plan that was made before the creation of the world, to save mankind, so this is where history began, not in eternity in the Garden.

Where did Cain go?

Genesis 4:The Family of Cain
16 Then Cain went out from the presence of the Lord and dwelt in the land of Nod on the east of Eden. 17 And Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch. And he built a city, and called the name of the city after the name of his son—Enoch.


Here we can understand that; by the time they were kicked out of the Garden, there were cities, nations, like "the Land of Nod" mentioned here! Remember God told them to "multiply and fill the earth" and not fill just a small garden. They always had access to the whole world, only the true beauty was the Garden in Eden where the children could come and visit their parents and talk with God when He came to visit them in the cool of the day.

Of course this is how the Lord gave me understanding of it, and I am open to your, and everyone here suggestion. We have to stick to the Bible, and not to other books like the "Book of Enoch". There may have been a "Book of Enoch", but it is definitely not the one being passed around today. But that's another topic.

God bless you all.
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Bladerunner on January 20, 2019, 06:34:43 pm
How Long did Adam and Eve Stay in Eden

 *Satan was a Murderer from the Beginning.  This is what Jesus tells us in John 8:14. When Satan deceived EVE, his lie not only killed Adam and Eve but he also killed us all. (all of their descendents). A murderer from the Beginning without a doubt. (1)

*We know that at Seith's birth Adam was 130 years old.(2)

*After the murder of Abel by Cain, we find the Population of the world was very significant as there were people throughout the region including east of the Euphrates River (NOD)
 
(1) Cain was afraid others would kill Him.
 
(2) He took a wife from the land of NOD East of EDEN.

To produce a substantial population that would allow this number of population in other parts of the world (NOD) in only 130 years;  the first Reproductive cycle of Eve could not have been missed. The first child of Adam and Eve (Cain) had to be close to the Fall as there was no birth's during their time in Eden.

After Adam and Eve were created, God told them to go forth and multiply. (Gen 1:28). Since their bodies would have been perfect condition and they would have "in tune" with each other, Eve would have been able to conceive within the first reproductive cycle.

Keep in mind, there was NO conception prior to the fall as we are told in Gen 4:1 (after the Fall)  Eve conceived Cain.

IF we consider the Female reproductive cycle was the same in Eden as it is now and has been for centuries after the fall, it would place her first cycle beginning within two weeks to a month after her creation.

IF we consider that the Beginning of Creation started on Tishrei 1 ( the Jewish New Year) and (3),

IF the "Wedding Chamber" (a type of the ancient Jewish Wedding ceremony)  leaves the groom and bride in the wedding chamber for seven days; They (the Groom and Bride) were left alone for those seven days. This seven days takes us through the 13th day and God would have talked to them on the 14th day since creation.(4)

Then GOD gave Adam and Eve sacrificed animal skins (Gen 3:21) on the 14th day. A future Day (the 14th day of the FIRST month) that will become passover, sacrifice of the Lamb.(5)

This same 14th day God removed them from Eden. The days Adam and Eve were in Eden in my opinion would have be eight days at the most. The seventh day of Creation was for rest. The Wedding Chamber typology (6) would have been started on the first day of the week or Saturday evening ending on Saturday evening. God would have talked with them on the first day of the week 14th day since the beginning of creation, Sunday.

Blade


(1) Truth: in defense of the PRe-Trib Rapture, page 98
(2) Genesis 5:3
(3) Koinonia House, "The Feast of Trumpets"
(4) Koinonia House, "The Wedding Model".
(5) Lev 23:5
(6)  (Genesis 29:21-23, 27-28) for the seven days of the huppah

Wow, neat analysis, love you guys here.

How long were Adam and Eve in the Garden, before and after they sinned, and their days numbered?

Well we know how long they stayed after they sinned, for that very day God kicked them out to the surrounding area of Eden. So let's see how long Adam, then Adam and Eve were in the garden before they sinned?

God created Adam first,

Genesis 2:4 This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, 5 before any plant of the field was in the earth and before any herb of the field had grown. For the Lord God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to till the ground; 6 but a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground.
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.


Life in God’s Garden

8 The Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there He put the man whom He had formed.

We don't get lonely that fast, not when we enjoy doing what we love. Adam must have been keeping himself busy keeping the garden, all the different plants, flowers, fruit bushes and trees, I know it would keep me busy for many years! But yes, without  wildlife around gardening would eventually get boring, and this is what God noticed there was something missing in Adams life, so:

.. 18 And the Lord God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.”
19 Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name.


It must have taken Adam a long time to name all the animals, millions of species, but what is "time" when you live in eternity? Adam never aged through all this, it is not mentioned how old he was when he started naming the animals, nor how long it took him, (like with Noah, it documents everything.) So we can safely assume that Adam was in the Garden for many more years now with pets around!

20 So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him.

He must have enjoyed meeting all the animals God created just for him, to keep him company, and I'm sure he was surrounded by pets. A Lyon here, an Elephant there, a few monkeys to make him laugh, some parrots who he could teach to talk, beautiful pheasants etc.  but again, this is in eternity, no time is counted in eternity, the sun comes up, and the sun sets, day after day and Adam does not age.

Whatever age God created Adam at (I doubt God created him as a baby) Adam stayed that same age for many, many years, decades, centuries, even millennia, it does not say, but he must have been busy all the time, and now that he had all the animals, millions of them to keep him company, it must have taken a long time for him to get bored of them all, I know I could easily live a few todays lifetimes before I get bored of millions of exotic, funny, interesting pets, while I do my gardening, and I'm sure many here would agree!? Matter of fact, there was a survey of men and women who were asked the question: If you were stranded on an island, and if you had a choice, who would you choose to be stranded with, .. your favorite pet, or your husband/wife" An amazingly higher percentage chose the pet. But I doubt these were Believers? lol

and so we read that once again God noticed: "But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him." That he eventually got tired of changing pets, having from a few hundred at a time to just a few he really liked (I'm just going by what I would of done not knowing anything else, because there were no other humans around. I know I could live for many years, even lifetimes if I could have any animal I wanted for pets, for company. Play with them, run with them, train them etc. and this while I was gardening, growing my own food, fruit trees etc. I'm just going by what I would of done not knowing any other humans existed!?
Anyways, God seen that once again Adam got bored:

Genesis 2:21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. 22 Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.

OK, so we have Adam and Eve now, what did God tell them when He created Eve for Adam?

Genesis 1:28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

So what do you think Adam and Eve did the next, .. oh we don't know how long because passing of time is not counted in eternity, before they sinned, so I would say they did what commanded them to do: were fruitful and multiplied.
We read later on that they had tribes, villages, and maybe even cities all around Eden, that's where Cain went. They are the ones who he thought would kill him after God put a mark on him!

There was no need to mention the children in eternity, or in the Garden, what is mentioned is the first children Adam and Eve had "after the fall", outside the Garden. Eve knew God was angry at her, and probably thought God will not bless her with children again for who knows how long? God did shut the womb of many women throughout Biblical history.

Genesis 3:22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 23 therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

Genesis 4:1 Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, “I have acquired a man from the Lord.” 2 Then she bore again, this time his brother Abel.


Here is when genealogy started, not in the Garden in eternity, but when genealogy mattered, when man was dying a little bit more every day, and they knew that just as God promised, that: "this day (Gods Day within 1,000 years) you will die!" This was the beginning of the plan that was made before the creation of the world, to save mankind, so this is where history began, not in eternity in the Garden.

Where did Cain go?

Genesis 4:The Family of Cain
16 Then Cain went out from the presence of the Lord and dwelt in the land of Nod on the east of Eden. 17 And Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch. And he built a city, and called the name of the city after the name of his son—Enoch.


Here we can understand that; by the time they were kicked out of the Garden, there were cities, nations, like "the Land of Nod" mentioned here! Remember God told them to "multiply and fill the earth" and not fill just a small garden. They always had access to the whole world, only the true beauty was the Garden in Eden where the children could come and visit their parents and talk with God when He came to visit them in the cool of the day.

Of course this is how the Lord gave me understanding of it, and I am open to your, and everyone here suggestion. We have to stick to the Bible, and not to other books like the "Book of Enoch". There may have been a "Book of Enoch", but it is definitely not the one being passed around today. But that's another topic.

God bless you all.

I am glad your GOD's right hand man!!!!! 

I guessm, the rest of us will just have to make do with Jesus Christ and His Gospel!

I don't think the Book of Enoch was even mentioned.    The references were list below the article... DOn't tell me you ignored it.?

Blade
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Arius on January 21, 2019, 01:56:51 am
How Long did Adam and Eve Stay in Eden

 *Satan was a Murderer from the Beginning.  This is what Jesus tells us in John 8:14. When Satan deceived EVE, his lie not only killed Adam and Eve but he also killed us all. (all of their descendents). A murderer from the Beginning without a doubt. (1)


I am glad your GOD's right hand man!!!!! 

I guessm, the rest of us will just have to make do with Jesus Christ and His Gospel!

I don't think the Book of Enoch was even mentioned.    The references were list below the article... DOn't tell me you ignored it.?

Blade

Greetings Blade!

Sorry, .. I thought I was replying to an OP: "How long were Adam and Eve in Eden?"

I used the Bible to give my version, the way it was given to me to understand.
I was not debating others versions, but adding in mine, or how I understand it.

You don't agree? If you or anyone here think I misquoted something from the Bible, by all means I would love to hear it! I have heard about a dozen or more different versions on this topic, so I put mine in.

So tell me, where is Jesus Christ Gospel different than what I quoted and interpreted? I am really, truly interested to know!?

God bless you all.
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Bladerunner on January 21, 2019, 09:23:48 am
How Long did Adam and Eve Stay in Eden

 *Satan was a Murderer from the Beginning.  This is what Jesus tells us in John 8:14. When Satan deceived EVE, his lie not only killed Adam and Eve but he also killed us all. (all of their descendents). A murderer from the Beginning without a doubt. (1)


I am glad your GOD's right hand man!!!!! 

I guessm, the rest of us will just have to make do with Jesus Christ and His Gospel!

I don't think the Book of Enoch was even mentioned.    The references were list below the article... DOn't tell me you ignored it.?

Blade

Greetings Blade!

Sorry, .. I thought I was replying to an OP: "How long were Adam and Eve in Eden?"

I used the Bible to give my version, the way it was given to me to understand.
I was not debating others versions, but adding in mine, or how I understand it.

You don't agree? If you or anyone here think I misquoted something from the Bible, by all means I would love to hear it! I have heard about a dozen or more different versions on this topic, so I put mine in.

So tell me, where is Jesus Christ Gospel different than what I quoted and interpreted? I am really, truly interested to know!?

God bless you all.

I don't believe I said anything about your opinion was wrong???????

However, when you delete, add to the scripture, I have a problem because you are preaching a false doctrine. example below.

The reply to a post I made on « on: January 20, 2019,        06:34:43 pm

You said. "The Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there He put the man whom He had formed.

We don't get lonely that fast, not when we enjoy doing what we love. Adam must have been keeping himself busy keeping the garden, all the different plants, flowers, fruit bushes and trees, I know it would keep me busy for many years!But yes, without  wildlife around gardening would eventually get boring, and this is what God noticed there was something missing in Adams life, so:"

Now what part of the BIBLE did you not read? GEN 1:26-27 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. v27..So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."[/b]

They were created on the same day, a 24 hour day!..YET....

You said:"I used the Bible to give my version, the way it was given to me to understand."

You were taught wrong my friend. Adam was not alone no more than a few hours. See GOD's WORD as it is written in the KJV.

You said:".. 18 And the Lord God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.” ":  This is Gen 2:18, not Gen Chapter ONE and the six days of creation.

Here you conveniently left out the Chapter so as to give the impression that it was a loooooooooooooong time before Eve was made.

Again, be very careful for God tells us not to add, delete, change His WORD. Rev 22:18-19 and HE tells us what is going to happen to those that change it. DO you Believe HIM and HIS WORD?????

 He is very jealous of HIS WORD for His WORD is HE.
JOHN 1:1..

Have a good day.


Blade

Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Arius on January 23, 2019, 12:33:51 am

Quote
I don't believe I said anything about your opinion was wrong?

Not in those words, but calling me Gods Right Hand man kind of sounds derogatory, so I asked?

Quote
However, when you delete, add to the scripture, I have a problem because you are preaching a false doctrine. example below.

The reply to a post I made on « on: January 20, 2019,        06:34:43 pm

You said. "The Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there He put the man whom He had formed.

We don't get lonely that fast, not when we enjoy doing what we love. Adam must have been keeping himself busy keeping the garden, all the different plants, flowers, fruit bushes and trees, I know it would keep me busy for many years! But yes, without  wildlife around gardening would eventually get boring, and this is what God noticed there was something missing in Adams life, so:"

Now what part of the BIBLE did you not read? GEN 1:26-27 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. v27..So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."[/b]

Read it again, and you will see God created Adam first, unless you are one of those who thinks Genesis chapter 2 "man" is another Adam from Genesis chapter one, except this one was formed from the dust of the ground? Because there are a lot of Christians who believe that.
Chapter 1:26-27 is a brief overall description, and Chapter 2 is a detailed description how it all happened, a chronological order if you will.. Adam first, then the animals, and then Eve from Adams rib, not another female/man/human from the dirt. Please look:

Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. 8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

God put man in the Garden, not man and woman. Woman was begotten in the Garden.
 
Genesis 2:15 And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

God told man/Adam not to take of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, it doesn't say when or if God told Eve. From Scripture we find coming down in the cool of the day, was this a normal thing God did daily and is when instructed woman the same command?

Quote
They were created on the same day, a 24 hour day!..YET....

You said:"I used the Bible to give my version, the way it was given to me to understand."

No my friend, if that is what you think that God was going by some "sun-dial 24 hour day", then explain how he counted the minutes and hours in the first three days?
It was the fourth day that God created the two great lights.

Quote
You were taught wrong my friend. Adam was not alone no more than a few hours. See GOD's WORD as it is written in the KJV.

I use multiple English versions, to make sure I understand what is being said, the truest interpretation come from the Holy Spirit.
Please show me this "few hours" creating Adam and Eve, or any other time table other than "Mornings and an evening, first day, same through the sixth day, .. and this before the sun or moon were even created.

Quote
You said:".. 18 And the Lord God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.” ":  This is Gen 2:18, not Gen Chapter ONE and the six days of creation.

Here you conveniently left out the Chapter so as to give the impression that it was a loooooooooooooong time before Eve was made.

I pray the Lord would give you a calm spirit, and an open mind before we continue, I want us to be friends, even brothers in Christ, the last thing I want is animosity between us.

And yes, that is correct, a Long time, it even mentions that Gods days are not like our days, could be thousand years difference. Meaning, a project with God could take a thousand years, while only a day passed for us, .. or what seems a thousand years for us, seem only a day for Him. God is not slack, He just doesn't work in our timeline, and He want's us to understand that.

Quote
Again, be very careful for God tells us not to add, delete, change His WORD. Rev 22:18-19 and HE tells us what is going to happen to those that change it. DO you Believe HIM and HIS WORD??

Oh yes, that's why I am no longer a Christian, but refer to myself as the Early desciples did: "follower of the Way".

Quote
He is very jealous of HIS WORD for His WORD is HE.
JOHN 1:1..

Have a good day.

Blade

You said: "for His WORD is HE" ? Where do you see that in John 1:1 or anywhere?

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word

God is Infinite and Eternal, He has no beginning, nor end.
His son Word on the other hand "Is the Beginning and the End' since He was the first being God created. The son Word is the one God created all things through, and without him nothing was created that was created.

.. and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

You see, the son Word was with God after God beget him from Himself. The Word is Gods only begotten son, just as Eve is the only begotten of Adam, because God took her out of Adam. See the "image" there? So the son Word was God before God beget him, just as Eve was Adam before God took her out of him. Let's not add or take away from Gods Word, like Christian do by making the son Word as God, just so they can kill God. Eve is not Adam, even though she was taken out of him.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.


That's pretty clear to me! The same (Word) was in the beginning "with God", .. I doubt God would say: "And God was with God", right?

God bless you my friend Blade, you friend evidence.
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Bladerunner on January 23, 2019, 07:02:29 pm

Quote
I don't believe I said anything about your opinion was wrong?

Not in those words, but calling me Gods Right Hand man kind of sounds derogatory, so I asked?

Quote
However, when you delete, add to the scripture, I have a problem because you are preaching a false doctrine. example below.

The reply to a post I made on « on: January 20, 2019,        06:34:43 pm

You said. "The Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there He put the man whom He had formed.

We don't get lonely that fast, not when we enjoy doing what we love. Adam must have been keeping himself busy keeping the garden, all the different plants, flowers, fruit bushes and trees, I know it would keep me busy for many years! But yes, without  wildlife around gardening would eventually get boring, and this is what God noticed there was something missing in Adams life, so:"

Now what part of the BIBLE did you not read? GEN 1:26-27 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. v27..So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."[/b]

Read it again, and you will see God created Adam first, unless you are one of those who thinks Genesis chapter 2 "man" is another Adam from Genesis chapter one, except this one was formed from the dust of the ground? Because there are a lot of Christians who believe that.
Chapter 1:26-27 is a brief overall description, and Chapter 2 is a detailed description how it all happened, a chronological order if you will.. Adam first, then the animals, and then Eve from Adams rib, not another female/man/human from the dirt. Please look:

Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. 8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

God put man in the Garden, not man and woman. Woman was begotten in the Garden.
 
Genesis 2:15 And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

God told man/Adam not to take of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, it doesn't say when or if God told Eve. From Scripture we find coming down in the cool of the day, was this a normal thing God did daily and is when instructed woman the same command?

Quote
They were created on the same day, a 24 hour day!..YET....

You said:"I used the Bible to give my version, the way it was given to me to understand."

No my friend, if that is what you think that God was going by some "sun-dial 24 hour day", then explain how he counted the minutes and hours in the first three days?
It was the fourth day that God created the two great lights.

Quote
You were taught wrong my friend. Adam was not alone no more than a few hours. See GOD's WORD as it is written in the KJV.

I use multiple English versions, to make sure I understand what is being said, the truest interpretation come from the Holy Spirit.
Please show me this "few hours" creating Adam and Eve, or any other time table other than "Mornings and an evening, first day, same through the sixth day, .. and this before the sun or moon were even created.

Quote
You said:".. 18 And the Lord God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.” ":  This is Gen 2:18, not Gen Chapter ONE and the six days of creation.

Here you conveniently left out the Chapter so as to give the impression that it was a loooooooooooooong time before Eve was made.

I pray the Lord would give you a calm spirit, and an open mind before we continue, I want us to be friends, even brothers in Christ, the last thing I want is animosity between us.

And yes, that is correct, a Long time, it even mentions that Gods days are not like our days, could be thousand years difference. Meaning, a project with God could take a thousand years, while only a day passed for us, .. or what seems a thousand years for us, seem only a day for Him. God is not slack, He just doesn't work in our timeline, and He want's us to understand that.

Quote
Again, be very careful for God tells us not to add, delete, change His WORD. Rev 22:18-19 and HE tells us what is going to happen to those that change it. DO you Believe HIM and HIS WORD??

Oh yes, that's why I am no longer a Christian, but refer to myself as the Early desciples did: "follower of the Way".

Quote
He is very jealous of HIS WORD for His WORD is HE.
JOHN 1:1..

Have a good day.

Blade

You said: "for His WORD is HE" ? Where do you see that in John 1:1 or anywhere?

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word

God is Infinite and Eternal, He has no beginning, nor end.
His son Word on the other hand "Is the Beginning and the End' since He was the first being God created. The son Word is the one God created all things through, and without him nothing was created that was created.

.. and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

You see, the son Word was with God after God beget him from Himself. The Word is Gods only begotten son, just as Eve is the only begotten of Adam, because God took her out of Adam. See the "image" there? So the son Word was God before God beget him, just as Eve was Adam before God took her out of him. Let's not add or take away from Gods Word, like Christian do by making the son Word as God, just so they can kill God. Eve is not Adam, even though she was taken out of him.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.


That's pretty clear to me! The same (Word) was in the beginning "with God", .. I doubt God would say: "And God was with God", right?

God bless you my friend Blade, you friend evidence.

you said:"Oh yes, that's why I am no longer a Christian, but refer to myself as the Early desciples did: "follower of the Way"."

Thus we cannot be brothers in Christ.  Jesus tells us that He has not lost anyone this father gave to him???   SOoooooooo. You were a Christian and Now you are not a Christian.   

I guess you were NEVER a TRUE Christian or Jesus is a Liar???


Blade
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Arius on January 24, 2019, 12:42:57 am
Quote
@Bladerunner
you said:"Oh yes, that's why I am no longer a Christian, but refer to myself as the Early desciples did: "follower of the Way"."

Thus we cannot be brothers in Christ.  Jesus tells us that He has not lost anyone this father gave to him???   SOoooooooo. You were a Christian and Now you are not a Christian.   

I guess you were NEVER a TRUE Christian or Jesus is a Liar???


Blade

Our Heavenly Father never gave Jesus any "Christians" my friend, and you will NEVER find that in the Bible. And you know what, looking back in my life, I guess I never was a "true" Christian. I always felt Christianity was a very hypocritical Religion, and many of their members often possessed by demons. Jesus taught his disciples to cast out demons from those who were of the world, NOT from those who are supposed to be In Christ already? Yet these Christians, even the Priests, and nuns like that Mother Teresa were always attacked, and possessed by demons!? How is that possible if they were "in Christ"?
That my friend would be "Impossible"! To be tempted is one thing, but full possession, never. Or they were Not true disciples of Jesus.
So here were these Christians preaching Christ from the Bible, yet denying him in every way by both faith (making him a sun-god) and in deeds.

I lived this lie for 30 years, until the Lord opened my eyes to what this word Christian, really meant?

I'm sure you agree that in order to be a Christian, one must hold on to the Trinity Doctrine, .. correct?
Where do you find this; "Trinity Doctrine"?

Is it in the Bible?

No, it is in the Nicene Creed, made by the gentile, many-gods worshipping Emperor Constantine and his pagan Catholic Church, and enforced throughout the centuries by the bloodthirsty, heartless Jesuits, leaving the streets of one European country after another flowing with the blood of the true saints, or who referred to themselves simply as: "followers of the Way" because they would not accept this Christian name, with their many, or plural gods, and idols of gods.

No name, no Religion, just "followers of Jesus Christ" Men and women without a country, for they waited for their eternal home with God, and not join in any organized Religion, or fight in wars against their fellow man whom they were hoping to save, not kill. As disciples of Christ, our duty is to turn my fellow man, even my enemies to Christ, and instead, the Christian Leaders asked to kill them for some Emperor and his lust for conquest, and fame.

We have a King who is the King of kings and Lord of lords. When he was accused of claiming equality with God, he made it clear he was the son of God; "Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods” ’? If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?

John 10:25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, [e]as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”
Renewed Efforts to Stone Jesus
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?”
33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods” ’? 35 If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36 do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? 37 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.” 39 Therefore they sought again to seize Him, but He escaped out of their hand.


The above verses are clear, that since we were created in Gods image, we are little gods, but Jesus, who is above all, and is the First of all Gods creations, he, the Alpha and Omega refused to even claim that, but made it perfectly clear that he came as a servant, the Messiah who brings the knowledge to those who seek the truth, and reveal to them God, the Infinite and Eternal Creator of all.

We can still be Brothers in Christ, but you must reject the plural gods worship and leave your Christian Religion, repent and turn to our Lord Jesus Christ. Not some RCC created sun god, or the plural gods, which there is one mentioned in the Bible, his name was Legion! One that was many, remember?

I know that's asking too much, but remember that with God, all things are possible.
God already gave you His Word the Bible, now all you have to do, all anyone has to do is "deny oneself and his assciation with this world, and repent, meaning understand/believe, then confess that "There is but One God, and one Savior Jesus Christ, who is the son of God Word."

Not the sun-god of the Christian religion. Especially claiming, then teaching others that God died!

God bless you my friend, and you are in my prayers as is everyone here.
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Seve on January 24, 2019, 07:37:31 am
If I may: Here’s the way I see it with regards to the subject matter:

In the Day of the event, Adam and Eve were Created in the Image and Likeness of God, or Born Again spiritually (Gen 1:26-27)- both A&E have already committed their “original sins”; kicked- out of the garden of Eden; and Cain had already killed Abel; (Gen. 5:1-3)

The actual Creation Event (Gen. 1:26-27) took place only after men started to call upon the name of the Lord during Seth’ generations; (Gen 4:26; 5:1-3). Adam and Eve were the first couple to be redeemed by the Lord.

Notice that Lord God (YHWH/Jesus) is NOT mentioned in Gen 5:1-2 but instead the term God is used. God is the name of the Trinity, an invisible Spirit. When God (Elohim-The Judges) "creates", it s ALWAYS an Eternal Creation. Gen 5:1-2 is telling us WHEN Adam and Eve were Created in the image and likeness of God.. or born again Spiritually by the Trinity and NOT their physical formation by Jesus.

IOW, Jesus physically formed A&E becoming a living soul and sinned... then... God (the Trinity) who's full of mercy, redeemed them and made them alive forevermore,

1 Cor 15:45-46 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.v46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Our God is an awesome God.
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Bladerunner on January 24, 2019, 08:44:29 am
If I may: Here’s the way I see it with regards to the subject matter:

In the Day of the event, Adam and Eve were Created in the Image and Likeness of God, or Born Again spiritually (Gen 1:26-27)- both A&E have already committed their “original sins”; kicked- out of the garden of Eden; and Cain had already killed Abel; (Gen. 5:1-3)

The actual Creation Event (Gen. 1:26-27) took place only after men started to call upon the name of the Lord during Seth’ generations; (Gen 4:26; 5:1-3). Adam and Eve were the first couple to be redeemed by the Lord.

Notice that Lord God (YHWH/Jesus) is NOT mentioned in Gen 5:1-2 but instead the term God is used. God is the name of the Trinity, an invisible Spirit. When God (Elohim-The Judges) "creates", it s ALWAYS an Eternal Creation. Gen 5:1-2 is telling us WHEN Adam and Eve were Created in the image and likeness of God.. or born again Spiritually by the Trinity and NOT their physical formation by Jesus.

IOW, Jesus physically formed A&E becoming a living soul and sinned... then... God (the Trinity) who's full of mercy, redeemed them and made them alive forevermore,

1 Cor 15:45-46 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.v46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Our God is an awesome God.

Good morning Seve,   You said: " both A&E have already committed their “original sins”; kicked- out of the garden of Eden; and Cain had already killed Abel; (Gen. 5:1-3)"

There is a lot of time between (Gen 1:26-27) & (Gen 5:1-3) and I agree with you...

you said: "The actual Creation Event (Gen. 1:26-27) took place only after men started to call upon the name of the Lord during Seth’ generations; (Gen 4:26; 5:1-3). Adam and Eve were the first couple to be redeemed by the Lord."

This is not what GOD's WORD says.....Gen 1:26-27.."And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. vs 27. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

Notice this was all done in the sixth day , (a 24 Hour Day).

You said: "Notice that Lord God (YHWH/Jesus) is NOT mentioned in Gen 5:1-2 but instead the term God is used. God is the name of the Trinity, an invisible Spirit. "

Jesus is the Lord thy GOD. It does not matter what term use unless you are referring individuals in the Trinity. God (the Father),Jesus (the Son) and the Holy Spirit. Here you are trying to place Jesus as a non GOD.


You Said: "1 Cor 15:45 "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."


 1 Cor 15:45...tells us that Man, a living soul (You and I) are of the ground (dust). The Second Adam (Jesus), returns to Heaven in spirit form.

You said: 1 Cor 15:46...".v46  "Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual."

Here, we are told that the first Adam was NOT in a spiritual body but rather Natural (fleshly). The second Adam (Jesus) is of Spiritual Form)


Blade
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Seve on January 24, 2019, 09:31:17 am
Dear Blade,

Genesis 1 is an Outline of ALL of the events leading to the Creation of the Perfect Heaven. Most of the rest of the Bible refers to the present 6th Day, but ALL of the Bible refers to the events of God's 6 Creative Days. That's why we are taken back to the 3rd Day at Gen 2:4. The narrative is adding details to the events listed in Gen 1. Both accounts agree totally and in detail.

What is amazing is that God wrote our History more than 3,000 years ago, and the events at the end of the present 6th Day are still Future.

IOW, God told the complete story of the Creation in Genesis 1 and beginning at Gen 2:4, we begin to learn the details of the events of Genesis 1.

Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and*there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, v10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Also, to be created in the image and likeness of God is to be created spiritually. Adam was physically formed on the 3rd day becoming a NATURAL LIVING SOUL and was Created spiritually in the image and likeness of God - who is a Spirit - on the 6th Day together with Eve at the same time - Gen 5:1-3  during Seth's generation.

Most certainly, Cain - who was a murderer and a liar from the beginning - could NOT have been an image and likeness of God. That's would be crazy to assume otherwise and will not make sense.


1 Cor 15:45-46 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.v46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Dear Blade, I am not sure what kind of Bible rendition you are using but it seems to me it's adulterated. IMHO.... However, just so you know,  I am using the original English translation of the Hebrew Scripture - Old English King James Version.

Anyway, the last Adam could NOT have been our Lord Jesus Christ but Adam himself, since,  Jesus is the SOURCE of the quickening spirit and Jesus is the ALPHA and OMEGA and second to none.

God bless



Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Bladerunner on January 24, 2019, 04:29:54 pm
Dear Blade,

Genesis 1 is an Outline of ALL of the events leading to the Creation of the Perfect Heaven. Most of the rest of the Bible refers to the present 6th Day, but ALL of the Bible refers to the events of God's 6 Creative Days. That's why we are taken back to the 3rd Day at Gen 2:4. The narrative is adding details to the events listed in Gen 1. Both accounts agree totally and in detail.

What is amazing is that God wrote our History more than 3,000 years ago, and the events at the end of the present 6th Day are still Future.

IOW, God told the complete story of the Creation in Genesis 1 and beginning at Gen 2:4, we begin to learn the details of the events of Genesis 1.

Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and*there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, v10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Also, to be created in the image and likeness of God is to be created spiritually. Adam was physically formed on the 3rd day becoming a NATURAL LIVING SOUL and was Created spiritually in the image and likeness of God - who is a Spirit - on the 6th Day together with Eve at the same time - Gen 5:1-3  during Seth's generation.

Most certainly, Cain - who was a murderer and a liar from the beginning - could NOT have been an image and likeness of God. That's would be crazy to assume otherwise and will not make sense.


1 Cor 15:45-46 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.v46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Dear Blade, I am not sure what kind of Bible rendition you are using but it seems to me it's adulterated. IMHO.... However, just so you know,  I am using the original English translation of the Hebrew Scripture - Old English King James Version.

Anyway, the last Adam could NOT have been our Lord Jesus Christ but Adam himself, since,  Jesus is the SOURCE of the quickening spirit and Jesus is the ALPHA and OMEGA and second to none.

*********

In reality Seve, Gen 1 is a Prologue with Chapter two and three giving us the nuts and bolts of creation. Creation did happen and it did happen in 6 24 hour days.

Having said that, one might consider the 6th day you say we are in now is a dispensation period. If this is the case, I personally believe we are in the 5th day. Why would I say this.

According to the Bible, when the Rapture happens, a new form of humanity will be created by the translation of our bodies from a fleshly form to a heavenly form. During the earth itself will be restore to (I believe) the original conditions as seen in Eden during the Millennium.  Thus the sixth day.

The seventh day, the Lord rested. After the 1,000 years of Jesus' reign on earth, those who still await judgement will be judged, a NEW earth will be populated by those who live through the millennium and the New Jerusalem will arrive in the sky (does not say it ever lands). In the sky, the New Jerusalem can be seen from everywhere on earth (i.e. Flat Earth).

After the judgements, the creation of a New Earth, GOD will rest for an eternity at the 7,000 year mark.

Yes, 7 days of creation is followed by 7,000 years  There will be (I believe) seven dispensation periods from the beginning to eternity.  My vision of the dispensations are as follows,.

1. Creation (Gen 1 -3)

2. Post Creation-Post Flood  (Gen 4 - Gen 10)

3. Post Flood - Pre-Law of Moses   (Gen 11- Exo - 20

4. Th Law of Moses    (Exo 20 - Mat 3)

5. The Period of Grace (days of John the Baptist, 1900+ years)
    (Mat 27 - Harpazo, Rapture of the Church (Body of Jesus Christ)

6. Post Grace Period - Pre-White Throne Judgment Period

7. Post New Earth/Jerusalem Creation to Eternity

(NOTE: the above dispensation periods are subjective and do not represent a hard core dogma of the author.)

********

You said:  "Most certainly, Cain - who was a murderer and a liar from the beginning - "

Are you speaking of Cain's life here?? He was not present at the Beginning of all things.

Satan on the other hand was present and showed himself in Eden to be a murderer from the beginning. For he Murdered all of US. UP until this time, Man was not slated to die, but after the fall, the judgement of death was placed on mankind. Yes, Satan did that.

*********

You said:  "I am using the original English translation of the Hebrew Scripture - Old English King James Version."

Your Bible is not the Authorized 1611 King James Verson which you are trying to portray. I use the present Authorized version of the KJV (from the 1611 Bible)

************
you said: "Anyway, the last Adam could NOT have been our Lord Jesus Christ but Adam himself, since,  Jesus is the SOURCE of the quickening spirit and Jesus is the ALPHA and OMEGA and second to none."

I see you do not understand how the Bible is written!

Have a good day

Blade
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Seve on January 24, 2019, 09:04:22 pm
Here’s where Adam was physically formed on the 3rd Day BEFORE he was created in the image and likeness of God together with Eve on the 6th Day.

Genesis 2:4-7 shows that man was formed of the dust the ground on the THIRD Day:

4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

As you noticed, the Earth was made on the THIRD Day. Gen 1:9-10 These verses are documenting the events of the THIRD Day.

5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. v6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

Notice that these verses are continuing to identify the time on the THIRD Day BEFORE the plants, herbs, and Trees GREW. Gen 1:12-13

7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

On the THIRD Day, the SAME Day the Earth was made but BEFORE the plants GREW, the LORD made man of the dust of the ground. Correct?

Read the next verses which confirm once again that Scripture is speaking of the THIRD Day.

8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom He had formed. 9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Notice that the Trees were made AFTER the LORD made Adam on the THIRD Day in total agreement with Gen 1:12-13.

Also notice that man wasn't "created" but was formed out of dust becoming a natural living soul. In fact, Adam wasn't even created in the image and likeness of God until AFTER Eve was made from his rib on the 6th Day. Gen 2:22 .. and committed their “original sin by disobeying our Lord’s commandment.

IOW, Adam was formed physically on the 3rd Day and created in God's Image and likeness or Born Again Spiritually and Eternally,…. after A&E already have committed their original sin ; AFTER Cain had already killed Abel… In fact, the actual Creation This Creation Event took place during Seth’ generations… when men started to call upon the name of the Lord as recorded and explained in the Scripture below - Gen 4:26; Gen 5:1-2


In the Day, Adam and his generations were Created spiritually in the image and likeness of God (Gen 1:26-27) - both A&E have already committed their “original sins”; sent out of the garden of Eden; Cain had already killed Abel; and the creation event took place during the Seth’ generations; only after Man began to call upon the name of the Lord (Gen 4:26) ...and repent. 

Gen 5:1-3
v1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

v2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

v3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

Of course, Cain, who was a Murderer and a Liar from the beginning could NOT have been made in the image or likeness of God.

Therefore, not everybody is created in the image and likeness of God from natural birth, unless, one is Born Again, spiritually in Christ.

1 Cor 15:45-46 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.v46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Amen?
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Arius on January 25, 2019, 01:22:56 am
My dear friend @Bladerunner you said: According to the Bible, when the Rapture happens, a new form of humanity will be created by the translation of our bodies from a fleshly form to a heavenly form. During the earth itself will be restore to (I believe) the original conditions as seen in Eden during the Millennium.  Thus the sixth day.

Here is what it really says:

Revelation 21:1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.

Also, here is how I understand the change Believers, and un-believers will go through:

Before identifying the “dead in Christ,” we should note the context in which this phrase is found. The immediate context is 1 Thessalonians 4:13–18, which deals with the question of what will happen at the return of the Lord Jesus. Paul’s readers were concerned that when Christ returns, those who have died prior to then would somehow miss out. The primary purpose of this passage is to comfort those believers who have lost believing loved ones.

The message of this passage is a message of hope. Christians have hope that unbelievers do not have when they lose loved ones. There is hope beyond the grave for Christians, and part of that hope is that, at the return of Christ, those who have already died “will rise first.” After that, Christians who are still alive will be transformed. Both groups will be “caught up” and will meet the Lord in the air. Paul closes this section with an admonition to encourage others with this hope.

In this passage, Paul uses the common euphemism of sleep to refer to those who have died in Christ, i.e., believers. Paul wants to comfort his readers that those Christians who have died prior to the return of Christ will not miss out on anything. That is why he opens this section by saying, “But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope” (v. 13).

So to answer the question, the dead in Christ are those believers who have died prior to the second coming of Christ. (Note, whether 1 Thessalonians 4 is referring to the second coming or the rapture is a matter of debate.) Believers, whether dead or alive, belong to Christ. We get similar language from the apostle in his first letter to the Corinthians when he writes, “But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ” (1 Corinthians 15:23). The dead in Christ applies not only to Paul’s original audience, but to all believers who have died in what can be termed the “inter-advental” period, or the time between the first and second comings of Christ.

Another question that may come up in this context is what happens to believers when they die? Certainly, Paul uses sleep to refer to their state, but does this mean that believers experience (for lack of a better word) an unconscious sleep-like state until the future resurrection? Those who advocate this position, called soul sleep, base it on passages such as 1 Thessalonians 4:13–18. But it should be noted that “sleep” as used here is euphemistic. It is not meant to convey actual sleep. In fact, the experience of the believer after death and before the end of the age when Christ returns is conscious, blissful communion with the Lord. Paul hints at this in 2 Corinthians 5:6–8 and Philippians 1:23.

At death, the body lies in repose in the grave awaiting the resurrection of the last day, but the soul goes to be at home with the Lord. This is the doctrine of the intermediate state. Believers experience in a provisional sense the rewards that await them in heaven, while unbelievers experience a taste of their eternal torment in hell (Luke 16:19–31).

I love you my friend, and may God bless us all!
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Arius on January 25, 2019, 03:05:23 pm
If I may: Here’s the way I see it with regards to the subject matter:

In the Day of the event, Adam and Eve were Created in the Image and Likeness of God, or Born Again spiritually (Gen 1:26-27)- both A&E have already committed their “original sins”; kicked- out of the garden of Eden; and Cain had already killed Abel; (Gen. 5:1-3)

The actual Creation Event (Gen. 1:26-27) took place only after men started to call upon the name of the Lord during Seth’ generations; (Gen 4:26; 5:1-3). Adam and Eve were the first couple to be redeemed by the Lord.

Notice that Lord God (YHWH/Jesus) is NOT mentioned in Gen 5:1-2 but instead the term God is used. God is the name of the Trinity, an invisible Spirit. When God (Elohim-The Judges) "creates", it s ALWAYS an Eternal Creation. Gen 5:1-2 is telling us WHEN Adam and Eve were Created in the image and likeness of God.. or born again Spiritually by the Trinity and NOT their physical formation by Jesus.

IOW, Jesus physically formed A&E becoming a living soul and sinned... then... God (the Trinity) who's full of mercy, redeemed them and made them alive forevermore,

1 Cor 15:45-46 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.v46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Our God is an awesome God.

Hello Seve my friend.
Interesting take on Gods creation of man, I never heard this one before, you said: The actual Creation Event (Gen. 1:26-27) took place only after men started to call upon the name of the Lord during Seth’ generations; (Gen 4:26; 5:1-3). Adam and Eve were the first couple to be redeemed by the Lord.


Are you a Christian? If so, which denomination?
God bless you.
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Seve on January 25, 2019, 05:50:54 pm
Hello my friend,

“Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ”

Yes, I consider myself to be a Born Again Christian - Non-Denomination Church - An independent Christian.

God bless
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Seve on January 26, 2019, 07:29:41 am
Dear Arius,

I just notice that you have been disagreeing mostly to my post above, would that be correct statement of facts?

Perhaps, I could explain myself further for your better understanding of my perspective of the subject matter. Just let me know exactly why and which of my statements or claims you're disagreeing with, so we can also discuss it further, if you want to.

I know, my view is very peculiar  and contrary to mostly traditional teachings. Rest assure however, that I only use the Scripture (KJV) to support what I post and claim. Given, an opportunity, I can also help you to better understand my position of the subject matter at hand to avoid any assumption or speculation of my stand.

Thank you and best regards, my friend.

God bless



Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Arius on January 26, 2019, 07:21:15 pm
Dear Arius,

I just notice that you have been disagreeing mostly to my post above, would that be correct statement of facts?

Perhaps, I could explain myself further for your better understanding of my perspective of the subject matter. Just let me know exactly why and which of my statements or claims you're disagreeing with, so we can also discuss it further, if you want to.

I know, my view is very peculiar  and contrary to mostly traditional teachings. Rest assure however, that I only use the Scripture (KJV) to support what I post and claim. Given, an opportunity, I can also help you to better understand my position of the subject matter at hand to avoid any assumption or speculation of my stand.

Thank you and best regards, my friend.

God bless



May the Lord bless you too my friend Seve, and hopefully Brothers in Christ.

Yes, I would love to understand more of your take on the Bible, that's how I learned more in the first year debating on Forums then the 20 years that my Church had me read the Bible and pray about what I did not understand. You know, one of those strict Christian Denominations that thought "they were the Only Truth, thus the Only Way" and everyone else was lost, going to hell.

I too have an .. how should I say: unorthodox understanding of the Bible, even Unchristian-like understanding. I don't believe that any of the gods in Christianity is our Heavenly Creator mentioned in the Bible. So yes, I can understand where different views can arise from. But we can talk about that later.

First, after re-reading your above post reminded me going back some years following the teachings of this Pastor Arnold Murray, you wouldn't happen to be associated with this "Shepherds Chapel" denomination would you?

God bless us both my friend, I do want to get to know your thoughts, feelings, and especially your "faith" in Christ, what your faith is built on?
Mainly; "which Christ?" since I'm sure you agree we have a plethora of them in Christianity, right? It would be a terrible waste to build our 'house' (faith) on doctrines of men, rather then the Rock; Jesus Christ as he reveals the Father to us in the Bible.
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Bladerunner on January 26, 2019, 07:39:55 pm
My dear friend @Bladerunner you said: According to the Bible, when the Rapture happens, a new form of humanity will be created by the translation of our bodies from a fleshly form to a heavenly form. During the earth itself will be restore to (I believe) the original conditions as seen in Eden during the Millennium.  Thus the sixth day.

Here is what it really says:

Revelation 21:1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.

Also, here is how I understand the change Believers, and un-believers will go through:

Before identifying the “dead in Christ,” we should note the context in which this phrase is found. The immediate context is 1 Thessalonians 4:13–18, which deals with the question of what will happen at the return of the Lord Jesus. Paul’s readers were concerned that when Christ returns, those who have died prior to then would somehow miss out. The primary purpose of this passage is to comfort those believers who have lost believing loved ones.

The message of this passage is a message of hope. Christians have hope that unbelievers do not have when they lose loved ones. There is hope beyond the grave for Christians, and part of that hope is that, at the return of Christ, those who have already died “will rise first.” After that, Christians who are still alive will be transformed. Both groups will be “caught up” and will meet the Lord in the air. Paul closes this section with an admonition to encourage others with this hope.

In this passage, Paul uses the common euphemism of sleep to refer to those who have died in Christ, i.e., believers. Paul wants to comfort his readers that those Christians who have died prior to the return of Christ will not miss out on anything. That is why he opens this section by saying, “But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope” (v. 13).

So to answer the question, the dead in Christ are those believers who have died prior to the second coming of Christ. (Note, whether 1 Thessalonians 4 is referring to the second coming or the rapture is a matter of debate.) Believers, whether dead or alive, belong to Christ. We get similar language from the apostle in his first letter to the Corinthians when he writes, “But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ” (1 Corinthians 15:23). The dead in Christ applies not only to Paul’s original audience, but to all believers who have died in what can be termed the “inter-advental” period, or the time between the first and second comings of Christ.

Another question that may come up in this context is what happens to believers when they die? Certainly, Paul uses sleep to refer to their state, but does this mean that believers experience (for lack of a better word) an unconscious sleep-like state until the future resurrection? Those who advocate this position, called soul sleep, base it on passages such as 1 Thessalonians 4:13–18. But it should be noted that “sleep” as used here is euphemistic. It is not meant to convey actual sleep. In fact, the experience of the believer after death and before the end of the age when Christ returns is conscious, blissful communion with the Lord. Paul hints at this in 2 Corinthians 5:6–8 and Philippians 1:23.

At death, the body lies in repose in the grave awaiting the resurrection of the last day, but the soul goes to be at home with the Lord. This is the doctrine of the intermediate state. Believers experience in a provisional sense the rewards that await them in heaven, while unbelievers experience a taste of their eternal torment in hell (Luke 16:19–31).

I love you my friend, and may God bless us all!


you said:"Revelation 21:1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. "

Arius...before you go any further, you have gone to far. Rev. 21 is after the Millennium at the end of the 6th day and the beginning of the seventh day (7,000 years).

I only gave a summary in the last post. If you want to go verse by verse it is ok with me. At is how I read the Bible anyways.  Literally, Historically and Grammatically.

Go back to Rev. 20. where the ANGEL places Satan in the Bottomless pit for 1,000 years. This is the beginning of the 1,000 years millennium.

If we do not get a good understanding of what each is saying, all the following comments to these wrong beginnings will also be wrong.

If you are going to understand Revelation, we need to start a REV 1.

Have a great day my friend.

Blade
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Bladerunner on January 26, 2019, 07:59:17 pm
My dear friend @Bladerunner you said: According to the Bible, when the Rapture happens, a new form of humanity will be created by the translation of our bodies from a fleshly form to a heavenly form. During the earth itself will be restore to (I believe) the original conditions as seen in Eden during the Millennium.  Thus the sixth day.

Here is what it really says:

Revelation 21:1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.

Also, here is how I understand the change Believers, and un-believers will go through:

Before identifying the “dead in Christ,” we should note the context in which this phrase is found. The immediate context is 1 Thessalonians 4:13–18, which deals with the question of what will happen at the return of the Lord Jesus. Paul’s readers were concerned that when Christ returns, those who have died prior to then would somehow miss out. The primary purpose of this passage is to comfort those believers who have lost believing loved ones.

The message of this passage is a message of hope. Christians have hope that unbelievers do not have when they lose loved ones. There is hope beyond the grave for Christians, and part of that hope is that, at the return of Christ, those who have already died “will rise first.” After that, Christians who are still alive will be transformed. Both groups will be “caught up” and will meet the Lord in the air. Paul closes this section with an admonition to encourage others with this hope.

In this passage, Paul uses the common euphemism of sleep to refer to those who have died in Christ, i.e., believers. Paul wants to comfort his readers that those Christians who have died prior to the return of Christ will not miss out on anything. That is why he opens this section by saying, “But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope” (v. 13).

So to answer the question, the dead in Christ are those believers who have died prior to the second coming of Christ. (Note, whether 1 Thessalonians 4 is referring to the second coming or the rapture is a matter of debate.) Believers, whether dead or alive, belong to Christ. We get similar language from the apostle in his first letter to the Corinthians when he writes, “But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ” (1 Corinthians 15:23). The dead in Christ applies not only to Paul’s original audience, but to all believers who have died in what can be termed the “inter-advental” period, or the time between the first and second comings of Christ.

Another question that may come up in this context is what happens to believers when they die? Certainly, Paul uses sleep to refer to their state, but does this mean that believers experience (for lack of a better word) an unconscious sleep-like state until the future resurrection? Those who advocate this position, called soul sleep, base it on passages such as 1 Thessalonians 4:13–18. But it should be noted that “sleep” as used here is euphemistic. It is not meant to convey actual sleep. In fact, the experience of the believer after death and before the end of the age when Christ returns is conscious, blissful communion with the Lord. Paul hints at this in 2 Corinthians 5:6–8 and Philippians 1:23.

At death, the body lies in repose in the grave awaiting the resurrection of the last day, but the soul goes to be at home with the Lord. This is the doctrine of the intermediate state. Believers experience in a provisional sense the rewards that await them in heaven, while unbelievers experience a taste of their eternal torment in hell (Luke 16:19–31).

I love you my friend, and may God bless us all!


you said:"Revelation 21:1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. "

Arius...before you go any further, you have gone to far. Rev. 21 is after the Millennium at the end of the 6th day and the beginning of the seventh day (7,000 years).

I only gave a summary in the last post. If you want to go verse by verse it is ok with me. At is how I read the Bible anyways.  Literally, Historically and Grammatically.

Go back to Rev. 20. where the ANGEL places Satan in the Bottomless pit for 1,000 years. This is the beginning of the 1,000 years millennium.

If we do not get a good understanding of what each is saying, all the following comments to these wrong beginnings will also be wrong.

If you are going to understand Revelation, we need to start a REV 1.

Have a great day my friend.

Blade

Arius, I said:" According to the Bible, when the Rapture happens, a new form of humanity will be created by the translation of our bodies from a fleshly form to a heavenly form."

This was a mistake and I would like to rephrase this statement for the reader of these posts.  When the Rapture happens those of the Church (Bride/Body of Christ) will be removed from earth, will receive a new Body (translated body) that is like that of Jesus Christ for we sill see him as HE is.

These parts of mankind  (OT Saints, Bride of Christ, Martyred Saints)
will ascend from mortal man to immortal Sons of GOD.  1 John 3:1-2

My apologies for the previous miss-statement concerning humanity.

Blade
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Seve on January 27, 2019, 01:13:46 am
Dear Arius,

I just notice that you have been disagreeing mostly to my post above, would that be correct statement of facts?

Perhaps, I could explain myself further for your better understanding of my perspective of the subject matter. Just let me know exactly why and which of my statements or claims you're disagreeing with, so we can also discuss it further, if you want to.

I know, my view is very peculiar  and contrary to mostly traditional teachings. Rest assure however, that I only use the Scripture (KJV) to support what I post and claim. Given, an opportunity, I can also help you to better understand my position of the subject matter at hand to avoid any assumption or speculation of my stand.

Thank you and best regards, my friend.

God bless



May the Lord bless you too my friend Seve, and hopefully Brothers in Christ.

Yes, I would love to understand more of your take on the Bible, that's how I learned more in the first year debating on Forums then the 20 years that my Church had me read the Bible and pray about what I did not understand. You know, one of those strict Christian Denominations that thought "they were the Only Truth, thus the Only Way" and everyone else was lost, going to hell.

I too have an .. how should I say: unorthodox understanding of the Bible, even Unchristian-like understanding. I don't believe that any of the gods in Christianity is our Heavenly Creator mentioned in the Bible. So yes, I can understand where different views can arise from. But we can talk about that later.

First, after re-reading your above post reminded me going back some years following the teachings of this Pastor Arnold Murray, you wouldn't happen to be associated with this "Shepherds Chapel" denomination would you?

God bless us both my friend, I do want to get to know your thoughts, feelings, and especially your "faith" in Christ, what your faith is built on?
Mainly; "which Christ?" since I'm sure you agree we have a plethora of them in Christianity, right? It would be a terrible waste to build our 'house' (faith) on doctrines of men, rather then the Rock; Jesus Christ as he reveals the Father to us in the Bible.


Dear Arius,

First of, thank you also for the blessings.

While, I have seen some of Pastor Arnold Murray’ Religious TV Program, I am NOT associated with them whatsoever. In fact, I believe I had few encounter, disagreement and discussion with them in the past - in one of the Christian Forums I was a member of.

Anyway, each Christian or follower of Christ has his own measure of information. I do not question the work of the Holy Spirit, for His ways are above my ways. Each us learns what we should know, as the Holy Spirit leads us.

That's how God has chosen to reveal His Truth.  Look at all the denominations.  If you look at Christianity as a big Pie, and see all the denominations as slices in the pie, you will find that God's Truth is in the whole pie, and that each slice teaches only part of God's Truth.

Why?  Because ONLY those who have Faith, not knowledge, can enter the Kingdom of God.  The complexity of views of the various denominations assure that we must come to God by Faith alone, no matter the denomination.

God bless

Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Arius on January 30, 2019, 06:40:01 pm

Dear Arius,

First of, thank you also for the blessings.

While, I have seen some of Pastor Arnold Murray’ Religious TV Program, I am NOT associated with them whatsoever. In fact, I believe I had few encounter, disagreement and discussion with them in the past - in one of the Christian Forums I was a member of.

Anyway, each Christian or follower of Christ has his own measure of information. I do not question the work of the Holy Spirit, for His ways are above my ways. Each us learns what we should know, as the Holy Spirit leads us.


Thank you my friend for your kind response.

I'd like to remind you of 1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess [a]that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

But this just refers to one type of false spirit, which the Jews even till today listen to, but we know there are more, correct? Like this one who actually acknowledged that Jesus was the son of God here on earth in the flesh:

Mathew 8:28 When He had come to the other side, to the country of the Gergesenes, there met Him two demon-possessed men, coming out of the tombs, exceedingly fierce, so that no one could pass that way. 29 And suddenly they cried out, saying, “What have we to do with You, Jesus, You Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?”

So we see that not every spirit that confesses Jesus is the son of God in the flesh is of God, and there are millions of men and women that confess him, yet we know they don't follow Jesus, but Lucifer the devil instead.

Quote
That's how God has chosen to reveal His Truth.  Look at all the denominations.  If you look at Christianity as a big Pie, and see all the denominations as slices in the pie, you will find that God's Truth is in the whole pie, and that each slice teaches only part of God's Truth.

Yes, Christianity is a Big Pie, but I would not go far as saying they collectively reveal the whole truth. Actually I would say they are all defending the Christian truth, which is far from Gods Truth.

Mathew 12:24 Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, “This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.”
25 But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand?


So you see that all Christian denominations are really one, how else would of Christianity stand for 1,700 years. Many tens of thousands of denominations with one mind, in the name of one Religion; "Christianity" protecting and teaching the one main man made doctrine which is the plural-gods doctrine, or that God is more than one.

Quote
Why?  Because ONLY those who have Faith, not knowledge, can enter the Kingdom of God.  The complexity of views of the various denominations assure that we must come to God by Faith alone, no matter the denomination.

God bless

[/size][/size]


Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

You see, what you said was Christian doctrine, it is just one of the many false teachings that make up the Pie.

Faith without evidence with substance is "blind faith", which is actually one of the first rules to become, and remain a Christian.
I was excommunicated for "questioning the tenets of my Christian Religion", the Elders told me this shown a great lack of faith and trust in the CHURCH of Christ which they assumed was Christianity, and of course; in Gods chosen Servants, the Ministers and Elders (please note the emphasis).

We can't make up things that are not Scriptural, or that can not be backed up by Scripture like the plurality of God, or that God created us in an unmentioned realm, or pre-creation.
We are to examine all thing, so I consider every idea, and then look for that "evidence with substance" in Scripture to justify it. I pray you will look into what I told you, and if you find something unscriptural, by all means show me.

I would like to say this, that listening to, and then investigating the Flat Earth theory (which is actually fact) is the best thing I have done in my walk with Christ. It reveal many conspiracies that leads right to the invention of the Christian Religion, and the real truth as to how and why it was created.
It blew my mind, especially realizing how long this been going on without me ever even looking into it deeper. That part is frightening, because the whole world is following "Pan" the pied Piper.

(https://3169.createaforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F&hash=4c182ae4f304f9c6a4d5ab9f816cc8285e24e1ac)

God bless you my friend!

Seeking;

Evidence
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Seve on January 31, 2019, 05:50:50 am
Dear Arius,

Just so you know, to begin with,  I don’t  blame the Whole Christianity just because, most of them do NOT support my view and perspective of the Scripture... nor will I allow myself to participate anymore further discussion of the above ... simply because, it deals MOSTLY with BIAS PERSONAL OPINION and CIRCULAR ARGUMENT.

The fact is, most Christians of different denominations, do Not agree with my doctrinal stands, but they see that I support my views with Scripture, but most have Never been taught what I post. In time, however, they accept me, but cling to the ideas they have been taught.

As I have said before…. The complexity of views of the various denominations assure that we all must come to God by Faith alone, no matter the denomination.

SUBSTANCE OF FAITH NOT SEEN:

While I agree with some but not everything you are saying about “Faith”….allow me to explain to you what “FAITH NOT SEEN” for your further knowledge of Biblical Truth, according to the Scripture….

The "Faith", which allows one to see, is provided to us, when God gives us the Faith to believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, according to the Scriptures. It is a GIFT from God to men. Without this Faith, one cannot be Born Again.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of  yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Once, you have received this Faith, you can begin to look for the evidence of  things not seen as Hebrews 11:1 shows.

Hbr 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Notice that Faith is Substance and Evidence.

Once you have been Born Again, spiritually in Christ, it doesn't mean that you must accept everything else in Scripture as you have been taught by Blind Faith, since it is now possible for you to look for the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen, before you were made alive Spiritually.

That's what I do, and it is really thrilling to discover the evidence of God, which I call PROOF of God, since it is PROOF to me. Since I believe, I have been Born Again, spiritually in Christ, by Faith.

God bless
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Arius on February 02, 2019, 03:10:15 am
Dear Arius,

Just so you know, to begin with,  I don’t  blame the Whole Christianity just because, most of them do NOT support my view and perspective of the Scripture... nor will I allow myself to participate anymore further discussion of the above ... simply because, it deals MOSTLY with BIAS PERSONAL OPINION and CIRCULAR ARGUMENT.

Thank you Seve, and you don't have to discuss the "Christian Religion" subject, that is fine, I respect that.
But may I ask you why you feel that it deals MOSTLY with BIAS PERSONAL OPINION and CIRCULAR ARGUMENT?
Just for my record, I want to consider everything, the last thing I want on that Last Day from my Lord is to tell me "You were wrong!" You know what I mean?

Quote
The fact is, most Christians of different denominations, do Not agree with my doctrinal stands, but they see that I support my views with Scripture, but most have Never been taught what I post. In time, however, they accept me, but cling to the ideas they have been taught.

And you don't see anything wrong with that?

Quote
As I have said before…. The complexity of views of the various denominations assure that we all must come to God by Faith alone, no matter the denomination.

Sectarianism Is Sin
1 Cor 1:

10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all [d]speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11 For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions among you. 12 Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

Even though Paul is speaking about who baptized who, contentions Is A Sin. Is Christ divided?

How do you think the 2 billion Muslims come to Allah, .. it is by faith alone. Matter of fact, unquestionable faith, .. right?

Quote
SUBSTANCE OF FAITH NOT SEEN:

While I agree with some but not everything you are saying about “Faith”….allow me to explain to you what “FAITH NOT SEEN” for your further knowledge of Biblical Truth, according to the Scripture….

The "Faith", which allows one to see, is provided to us, when God gives us the Faith to believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, according to the Scriptures. It is a GIFT from God to men. Without this Faith, one cannot be Born Again.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of  yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Of course it is a gift of God, because salvation cost God His own precious son. We could never repay that.
The substance is the "prophesies" that have been written thousands of years before "the Word became flesh and dwelt amongst us" It is this that saves us, not because our family is Muslim/Christian and we have to accept Islam/Christianity or go to hell! You know what I mean?

We didn't just accept someone claiming that a man named George died, and if we believe it we will be saved and go to Heaven! Where is the "substance" in that, right?

Quote
Once, you have received this Faith, you can begin to look for the evidence of  things not seen as Hebrews 11:1 shows.

Hbr 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Notice that Faith is Substance and Evidence.

If you already received this information (whatever it may be) and accepted it in faith, you don't need to look for evidence. That is what Islam is all about, first the poor Arabs must believe in, and accept Islam and Allah, and then they keep making up stories to keep believing. Like that if they blow themselves up and kill a bunch of non-Muslims, they are guaranteed to get into Paradise because that is what pleases Allah. Then they make up stories regarding the rewards, what they will get in Paradise once they get there.

Same things are happening in Christianity, people make up all kinds of NDE's and how they seen God in person, how they hugged Him and even remember his eye colors, one blue and the other green. And many seen their pets there in Heaven too! All this because their faith is not built on evidence with substance, but have accepted a story on blind faith. So they accept just about any story as long as the name Jesus, or God is in there.

Not so with true Believers, they KNOW which stories belong, and which are made up, or even lies.

Quote
Once you have been Born Again, spiritually in Christ, it doesn't mean that you must accept everything else in Scripture as you have been taught by Blind Faith, since it is now possible for you to look for the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen, before you were made alive Spiritually.

That's what I do, and it is really thrilling to discover the evidence of God, which I call PROOF of God, since it is PROOF to me. Since I believe, I have been Born Again, spiritually in Christ, by Faith.

God bless
[/size]

Look, I understand what you are saying, and I am not saying that faith cannot come by the smallest of packages/evidences, like just watching a Believers actions and how he or she lives her life. One can question him about what makes him this wonderful being full of love, and possess this peace beyond all understanding? He then can open the Bible and preach about Christ, right? BAM, if that that person is convinced, he can become an instant believer. This is what Jesus did, but he first shown miracles, which were recorded by other men as witnesses.
Today, we read of these reports and decide if they were true or not, right?

Do you know how many Christs have come and gone since Jesus? They shown such love, such peace beyond understanding, such compassion for peoples needs, and got up and helped hundreds of people, financially, emotionally, and preaching right from the Bible all that time.
One of these was Jim Jones, and there are others today, this Russian Jesus that people from around the earth are flocking to and settling down with.

OK, now I'm sure you know what happened with Jim Jones and the Guyana tragedy, right? Now I ask you a few things:
First, do you believe that all them people murdered went to Heaven?

Second, since according to the peoples claims, they were all "Christians" believers in Jesus Christ, do you agree that all the those people were really true believers in Jesus Christ? In other words, would you say they went to Heaven, and that Jim Jones will take all the blame for deceiving them?

Third, what should have made them realize that Pastor Jones was really not a true believer? I don't mean when they went to Guyana, but when they were still in the States!?

Thank you, and God bless you.
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Arius on February 06, 2019, 01:20:42 pm
Greetings Seve, I pray I did not offend you in any way, unless the truth is offensive? If it was not the truth, then by all means please correct me?

Besides, we were derailing the topic at hand: "How long were Adam and Eve in Eden?"

I say till they died, because Eden was a big place, and there is no mention of them leaving Eden to another country like Cain did.

The Garden that God planted was in Eden, from which they got kicked out of, .. not the land Eden.
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Bladerunner on February 06, 2019, 09:40:19 pm
Greetings Seve, I pray I did not offend you in any way, unless the truth is offensive? If it was not the truth, then by all means please correct me?

Besides, we were derailing the topic at hand: "How long were Adam and Eve in Eden?"

I say till they died, because Eden was a big place, and there is no mention of them leaving Eden to another country like Cain did.

The Garden that God planted was in Eden, from which they got kicked out of, .. not the land Eden.

Arius, do you not read the Bible (KJV)..Gen 3:23-24.."Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.  v.24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."

Blade
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Arius on February 07, 2019, 01:32:36 am
Greetings Seve, I pray I did not offend you in any way, unless the truth is offensive? If it was not the truth, then by all means please correct me?

Besides, we were derailing the topic at hand: "How long were Adam and Eve in Eden?"

I say till they died, because Eden was a big place, and there is no mention of them leaving Eden to another country like Cain did.

The Garden that God planted was in Eden, from which they got kicked out of, .. not the land Eden.

Arius, do you not read the Bible (KJV)..Gen 3:23-24.."Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.  v.24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."

Blade

Yes my friend, that is exactly what I was pointing out, that God planet a Garden in Eden. The garden did not cover the entire land of Eden, but a small part of it. It was a Garden IN Eden, but Eden was not the Garden.
Just like; "the trees of Lebanon" doesn't mean Lebanon was a tree.
It was at the east of the garden of Eden that God placed Cherubim's, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Bladerunner on February 08, 2019, 01:34:12 am
Greetings Seve, I pray I did not offend you in any way, unless the truth is offensive? If it was not the truth, then by all means please correct me?

Besides, we were derailing the topic at hand: "How long were Adam and Eve in Eden?"

I say till they died, because Eden was a big place, and there is no mention of them leaving Eden to another country like Cain did.

The Garden that God planted was in Eden, from which they got kicked out of, .. not the land Eden.

Arius, do you not read the Bible (KJV)..Gen 3:23-24.."Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.  v.24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."

Blade

Yes my friend, that is exactly what I was pointing out, that God planet a Garden in Eden. The garden did not cover the entire land of Eden, but a small part of it. It was a Garden IN Eden, but Eden was not the Garden.
Just like; "the trees of Lebanon" doesn't mean Lebanon was a tree.
It was at the east of the garden of Eden that God placed Cherubim's, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Where is the 'Garden of Eden' or just 'Eden' today.  You said you knew?

Blade
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Arius on February 10, 2019, 04:30:55 pm
Greetings Seve, I pray I did not offend you in any way, unless the truth is offensive? If it was not the truth, then by all means please correct me?

Besides, we were derailing the topic at hand: "How long were Adam and Eve in Eden?"

I say till they died, because Eden was a big place, and there is no mention of them leaving Eden to another country like Cain did.

The Garden that God planted was in Eden, from which they got kicked out of, .. not the land Eden.

Arius, do you not read the Bible (KJV)..Gen 3:23-24.."Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.  v.24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."

Blade

Yes my friend, that is exactly what I was pointing out, that God planet a Garden in Eden. The garden did not cover the entire land of Eden, but a small part of it. It was a Garden IN Eden, but Eden was not the Garden.
Just like; "the trees of Lebanon" doesn't mean Lebanon was a tree.
It was at the east of the garden of Eden that God placed Cherubim's, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Where is the 'Garden of Eden' or just 'Eden' today.  You said you knew?

Blade

Here is a brother that makes sense in defining where the Garden of Eden is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwcKcmrdNUE

Sounds real Biblical to me, what do you think?

Of course he seems like a Christian and Globe earther, other than that, his info sounds solid.
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Bladerunner on February 10, 2019, 05:12:16 pm
Greetings Seve, I pray I did not offend you in any way, unless the truth is offensive? If it was not the truth, then by all means please correct me?

Besides, we were derailing the topic at hand: "How long were Adam and Eve in Eden?"

I say till they died, because Eden was a big place, and there is no mention of them leaving Eden to another country like Cain did.

The Garden that God planted was in Eden, from which they got kicked out of, .. not the land Eden.

Arius, do you not read the Bible (KJV)..Gen 3:23-24.."Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.  v.24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."

Blade

Yes my friend, that is exactly what I was pointing out, that God planet a Garden in Eden. The garden did not cover the entire land of Eden, but a small part of it. It was a Garden IN Eden, but Eden was not the Garden.
Just like; "the trees of Lebanon" doesn't mean Lebanon was a tree.
It was at the east of the garden of Eden that God placed Cherubim's, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Where is the 'Garden of Eden' or just 'Eden' today.  You said you knew?

Blade

Here is a brother that makes sense in defining where the Garden of Eden is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwcKcmrdNUE

Sounds real Biblical to me, what do you think?

Of course he seems like a Christian and Globe earther, other than that, his info sounds solid.
,

I will have to agree with the video author in that the Garden of Eden is of another dimension.

The last verse in Gen 3:24..."So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."

Here we see Got put the Garden of Eden and the Tree of Life under guard of Cherubims (plural). He does not tell us how many.

The use of other dimensions is common in the Bible as the most famous one being in the upper room where Jesus simply appears in the room. The bible gives us clues to around 10 other dimensions. We, of course have only three dimensions.

We know where the Garden of Eden was located. It was just in another dimension and will stay there until the millennium arrives.

Blade
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Arius on February 10, 2019, 07:27:58 pm
Greetings Seve, I pray I did not offend you in any way, unless the truth is offensive? If it was not the truth, then by all means please correct me?

Besides, we were derailing the topic at hand: "How long were Adam and Eve in Eden?"

I say till they died, because Eden was a big place, and there is no mention of them leaving Eden to another country like Cain did.

The Garden that God planted was in Eden, from which they got kicked out of, .. not the land Eden.

Arius, do you not read the Bible (KJV)..Gen 3:23-24.."Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.  v.24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."

Blade

Yes my friend, that is exactly what I was pointing out, that God planet a Garden in Eden. The garden did not cover the entire land of Eden, but a small part of it. It was a Garden IN Eden, but Eden was not the Garden.
Just like; "the trees of Lebanon" doesn't mean Lebanon was a tree.
It was at the east of the garden of Eden that God placed Cherubim's, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Where is the 'Garden of Eden' or just 'Eden' today.  You said you knew?

Blade

Here is a brother that makes sense in defining where the Garden of Eden is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwcKcmrdNUE

Sounds real Biblical to me, what do you think?

Of course he seems like a Christian and Globe earther, other than that, his info sounds solid.
,

I will have to agree with the video author in that the Garden of Eden is of another dimension.

The last verse in Gen 3:24..."So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."

Here we see Got put the Garden of Eden and the Tree of Life under guard of Cherubims (plural). He does not tell us how many.

The use of other dimensions is common in the Bible as the most famous one being in the upper room where Jesus simply appears in the room. The bible gives us clues to around 10 other dimensions. We, of course have only three dimensions.

We know where the Garden of Eden was located. It was just in another dimension and will stay there until the millennium arrives.

Blade

I agree my brother, but I think we have one more dimension then three, for we see the three dimensions with our mind, which is the fourth dimension.

You seem to know 6 more dimensions then I'm aware of. I would love to learn about them.

Please don't shun me my friend, I don't mind you thinking of me as an Arian Heretic, because I was where you were not too long ago. Let us keep sharpening our knowledge of the Lord, .. it is what we are here for, right?
Remember I asked that no one take what I say offensively, it is not personal. My stand against the Trinity-gods is personal, just as my stand against the Globe earth is. We're talking about a 500 some year old Globe-earth doctrine, and a 1,700 year old trinity doctrine. I mean my Lord, how many generations is that, right?

Something about these last days, where even an under schooled dumb-dog like me can search out history, and information that would take a Scholar years if this was just a 50 years ago, like the 60's. So we should be able to get to the bottom of this Trinity Doctrine rather quickly, because I doubt we'll have any greater opportunity in the coming near future then what we have today?

God bless you Blade

Arius
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Bladerunner on February 11, 2019, 05:56:16 pm
Greetings Seve, I pray I did not offend you in any way, unless the truth is offensive? If it was not the truth, then by all means please correct me?

Besides, we were derailing the topic at hand: "How long were Adam and Eve in Eden?"

I say till they died, because Eden was a big place, and there is no mention of them leaving Eden to another country like Cain did.

The Garden that God planted was in Eden, from which they got kicked out of, .. not the land Eden.

Arius, do you not read the Bible (KJV)..Gen 3:23-24.."Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.  v.24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."

Blade

Yes my friend, that is exactly what I was pointing out, that God planet a Garden in Eden. The garden did not cover the entire land of Eden, but a small part of it. It was a Garden IN Eden, but Eden was not the Garden.
Just like; "the trees of Lebanon" doesn't mean Lebanon was a tree.
It was at the east of the garden of Eden that God placed Cherubim's, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Where is the 'Garden of Eden' or just 'Eden' today.  You said you knew?

Blade

Here is a brother that makes sense in defining where the Garden of Eden is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwcKcmrdNUE

Sounds real Biblical to me, what do you think?

Of course he seems like a Christian and Globe earther, other than that, his info sounds solid.
,

I will have to agree with the video author in that the Garden of Eden is of another dimension.

The last verse in Gen 3:24..."So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."

Here we see Got put the Garden of Eden and the Tree of Life under guard of Cherubims (plural). He does not tell us how many.

The use of other dimensions is common in the Bible as the most famous one being in the upper room where Jesus simply appears in the room. The bible gives us clues to around 10 other dimensions. We, of course have only three dimensions.

We know where the Garden of Eden was located. It was just in another dimension and will stay there until the millennium arrives.

Blade

I agree my brother, but I think we have one more dimension then three, for we see the three dimensions with our mind, which is the fourth dimension.

You seem to know 6 more dimensions then I'm aware of. I would love to learn about them.

Please don't shun me my friend, I don't mind you thinking of me as an Arian Heretic, because I was where you were not too long ago. Let us keep sharpening our knowledge of the Lord, .. it is what we are here for, right?
Remember I asked that no one take what I say offensively, it is not personal. My stand against the Trinity-gods is personal, just as my stand against the Globe earth is. We're talking about a 500 some year old Globe-earth doctrine, and a 1,700 year old trinity doctrine. I mean my Lord, how many generations is that, right?

Something about these last days, where even an under schooled dumb-dog like me can search out history, and information that would take a Scholar years if this was just a 50 years ago, like the 60's. So we should be able to get to the bottom of this Trinity Doctrine rather quickly, because I doubt we'll have any greater opportunity in the coming near future then what we have today?

God bless you Blade

Arius

Just what does the Trinity Doctrine mean to you. Why does it make you deny the "Chistianity" religion.

The def. using Wikipedia is a follows: "Christianity is a monotheistic Abrahamic religion faith based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth as described in the New Testament."


Note: I used Wikipedia Def because it was accurate and easy to get to. 

It is obvious the Trinity Doctrine disturbs you beyond the normal. WHY?\

As far as Christianity is concerned, it is also obvious that the RCC has tainted your mind even against those other Christians that have nothing to do with the RCC.

You need to work these problems out before its too late.

Blade






Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Arius on February 11, 2019, 09:10:28 pm
Greetings Seve, I pray I did not offend you in any way, unless the truth is offensive? If it was not the truth, then by all means please correct me?

Besides, we were derailing the topic at hand: "How long were Adam and Eve in Eden?"

I say till they died, because Eden was a big place, and there is no mention of them leaving Eden to another country like Cain did.

The Garden that God planted was in Eden, from which they got kicked out of, .. not the land Eden.

Arius, do you not read the Bible (KJV)..Gen 3:23-24.."Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.  v.24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."

Blade

Yes my friend, that is exactly what I was pointing out, that God planet a Garden in Eden. The garden did not cover the entire land of Eden, but a small part of it. It was a Garden IN Eden, but Eden was not the Garden.
Just like; "the trees of Lebanon" doesn't mean Lebanon was a tree.
It was at the east of the garden of Eden that God placed Cherubim's, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Where is the 'Garden of Eden' or just 'Eden' today.  You said you knew?

Blade

Here is a brother that makes sense in defining where the Garden of Eden is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwcKcmrdNUE

Sounds real Biblical to me, what do you think?

Of course he seems like a Christian and Globe earther, other than that, his info sounds solid.
,

I will have to agree with the video author in that the Garden of Eden is of another dimension.

The last verse in Gen 3:24..."So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."

Here we see Got put the Garden of Eden and the Tree of Life under guard of Cherubims (plural). He does not tell us how many.

The use of other dimensions is common in the Bible as the most famous one being in the upper room where Jesus simply appears in the room. The bible gives us clues to around 10 other dimensions. We, of course have only three dimensions.

We know where the Garden of Eden was located. It was just in another dimension and will stay there until the millennium arrives.

Blade

I agree my brother, but I think we have one more dimension then three, for we see the three dimensions with our mind, which is the fourth dimension.

You seem to know 6 more dimensions then I'm aware of. I would love to learn about them.

Please don't shun me my friend, I don't mind you thinking of me as an Arian Heretic, because I was where you were not too long ago. Let us keep sharpening our knowledge of the Lord, .. it is what we are here for, right?
Remember I asked that no one take what I say offensively, it is not personal. My stand against the Trinity-gods is personal, just as my stand against the Globe earth is. We're talking about a 500 some year old Globe-earth doctrine, and a 1,700 year old trinity doctrine. I mean my Lord, how many generations is that, right?

Something about these last days, where even an under schooled dumb-dog like me can search out history, and information that would take a Scholar years if this was just a 50 years ago, like the 60's. So we should be able to get to the bottom of this Trinity Doctrine rather quickly, because I doubt we'll have any greater opportunity in the coming near future then what we have today?

God bless you Blade

Arius

Just what does the Trinity Doctrine mean to you. Why does it make you deny the "Chistianity" religion.

The def. using Wikipedia is a follows: "Christianity is a monotheistic Abrahamic religion faith based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth as described in the New Testament."


Note: I used Wikipedia Def because it was accurate and easy to get to. 

It is obvious the Trinity Doctrine disturbs you beyond the normal. WHY?\

Well think about it friend, what is the number one purpose for us reading the Bible?
It's seeking God, right? I mean I'm sure you have checked out other religions too, like me, and nothing even comes close to the Bible, and God of the Bible, so isn't it crucial we get to know our Creator?
Well as a child all I heard was the names "Jesus Christ, .. Oh my Lord, Oh God, thank Jesus for this and thank Jesus for that, yet as watched the actions of these people whose every other words were God and Jesus, I've become to dreaded those names. As a child till I was 12, the names Jesus and God became like someone yelling "I have a bomb" on an airplane.

Later I was told if I don't become a Christian that I will go to hell for an eternity, so hell no, I became a Christian, and learned to live two separate lives. One in words (testifying to others about this same Jesus and God in the Bible) and living as if they were no part of my physical reality. Over the years I learned that this is called Christianity, rightly dividing Gods Word and my life in the real world, ..  good ministry on one hand, and leaving that good Ministry at the door of the church, or in the tithing box when I exited.

Quote
As far as Christianity is concerned, it is also obvious that the RCC has tainted your mind even against those other Christians that have nothing to do with the RCC.

That's where you're wrong my dear brother, because I have about 50/50 friends and family Catholic and the others of other denominations, and half of those are very conservative Christians, Mennonite type, and to me in real life, they are the same.
The only way you could tell them apart is if they start talking about the Bible, and there of course the Catholics fail miserably. yet in action, in public, at work like I said, you can't tell them apart. So how would the RCC Christians taint my view of the denominational Christians?
Besides, they both bare the same name, and interpret who their gods are by the same Christian Doctrines.

Quote
Bladerunner said - You need to work these problems out before its too late.

Blade[/shadow]

I did, that's why I tell you that in public, at work, they are all the same, same core beliefs worshipping the same gods governed by the same Christian Doctrine. The only time you see a difference is when they talk about the Bible. And even though I said the Catholics don't know much about the Bible (not all of course) they at least stick with their Christian Doctrines, unlike the protestant Churches who know the Bible, yet show no difference in their lives then the Catholics. So who are more hypocritical, the Catholics, or the Protestants? .. know what I mean?

What do you mean by "before it's too late"? I am making leaps and bounds towards understanding God, His son Word, and understanding who I am and where I live, where I hope to go after I die and the importance of sticking with Gods Word over man made doctrines. God is not just another deity for me, nor is Jesus Christ God. Now after Christs resurrection, God did deify (raised) Jesus above all of His creation, above all principalities and powers, and every knee shall bow down before him in praise of our God and his God. But this does Not make Jesus the son of God any more God, nor does this make Our Infinite and Eternal God any less God, you know what I mean?

God bless

Arius
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Bladerunner on February 15, 2019, 08:17:32 pm
Greetings Seve, I pray I did not offend you in any way, unless the truth is offensive? If it was not the truth, then by all means please correct me?

Besides, we were derailing the topic at hand: "How long were Adam and Eve in Eden?"

I say till they died, because Eden was a big place, and there is no mention of them leaving Eden to another country like Cain did.

The Garden that God planted was in Eden, from which they got kicked out of, .. not the land Eden.

Arius, do you not read the Bible (KJV)..Gen 3:23-24.."Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.  v.24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."

Blade

Yes my friend, that is exactly what I was pointing out, that God planet a Garden in Eden. The garden did not cover the entire land of Eden, but a small part of it. It was a Garden IN Eden, but Eden was not the Garden.
Just like; "the trees of Lebanon" doesn't mean Lebanon was a tree.
It was at the east of the garden of Eden that God placed Cherubim's, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Where is the 'Garden of Eden' or just 'Eden' today.  You said you knew?

Blade

Here is a brother that makes sense in defining where the Garden of Eden is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwcKcmrdNUE

Sounds real Biblical to me, what do you think?

Of course he seems like a Christian and Globe earther, other than that, his info sounds solid.
,

I will have to agree with the video author in that the Garden of Eden is of another dimension.

The last verse in Gen 3:24..."So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life."

Here we see Got put the Garden of Eden and the Tree of Life under guard of Cherubims (plural). He does not tell us how many.

The use of other dimensions is common in the Bible as the most famous one being in the upper room where Jesus simply appears in the room. The bible gives us clues to around 10 other dimensions. We, of course have only three dimensions.

We know where the Garden of Eden was located. It was just in another dimension and will stay there until the millennium arrives.

Blade

I agree my brother, but I think we have one more dimension then three, for we see the three dimensions with our mind, which is the fourth dimension.

You seem to know 6 more dimensions then I'm aware of. I would love to learn about them.

Please don't shun me my friend, I don't mind you thinking of me as an Arian Heretic, because I was where you were not too long ago. Let us keep sharpening our knowledge of the Lord, .. it is what we are here for, right?
Remember I asked that no one take what I say offensively, it is not personal. My stand against the Trinity-gods is personal, just as my stand against the Globe earth is. We're talking about a 500 some year old Globe-earth doctrine, and a 1,700 year old trinity doctrine. I mean my Lord, how many generations is that, right?

Something about these last days, where even an under schooled dumb-dog like me can search out history, and information that would take a Scholar years if this was just a 50 years ago, like the 60's. So we should be able to get to the bottom of this Trinity Doctrine rather quickly, because I doubt we'll have any greater opportunity in the coming near future then what we have today?

God bless you Blade

Arius

Just what does the Trinity Doctrine mean to you. Why does it make you deny the "Chistianity" religion.

The def. using Wikipedia is a follows: "Christianity is a monotheistic Abrahamic religion faith based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth as described in the New Testament."


Note: I used Wikipedia Def because it was accurate and easy to get to. 

It is obvious the Trinity Doctrine disturbs you beyond the normal. WHY?\

Well think about it friend, what is the number one purpose for us reading the Bible?
It's seeking God, right? I mean I'm sure you have checked out other religions too, like me, and nothing even comes close to the Bible, and God of the Bible, so isn't it crucial we get to know our Creator?
Well as a child all I heard was the names "Jesus Christ, .. Oh my Lord, Oh God, thank Jesus for this and thank Jesus for that, yet as watched the actions of these people whose every other words were God and Jesus, I've become to dreaded those names. As a child till I was 12, the names Jesus and God became like someone yelling "I have a bomb" on an airplane.

Later I was told if I don't become a Christian that I will go to hell for an eternity, so hell no, I became a Christian, and learned to live two separate lives. One in words (testifying to others about this same Jesus and God in the Bible) and living as if they were no part of my physical reality. Over the years I learned that this is called Christianity, rightly dividing Gods Word and my life in the real world, ..  good ministry on one hand, and leaving that good Ministry at the door of the church, or in the tithing box when I exited.

Quote
As far as Christianity is concerned, it is also obvious that the RCC has tainted your mind even against those other Christians that have nothing to do with the RCC.

That's where you're wrong my dear brother, because I have about 50/50 friends and family Catholic and the others of other denominations, and half of those are very conservative Christians, Mennonite type, and to me in real life, they are the same.
The only way you could tell them apart is if they start talking about the Bible, and there of course the Catholics fail miserably. yet in action, in public, at work like I said, you can't tell them apart. So how would the RCC Christians taint my view of the denominational Christians?
Besides, they both bare the same name, and interpret who their gods are by the same Christian Doctrines.

Quote
Bladerunner said - You need to work these problems out before its too late.

Blade[/shadow]

I did, that's why I tell you that in public, at work, they are all the same, same core beliefs worshipping the same gods governed by the same Christian Doctrine. The only time you see a difference is when they talk about the Bible. And even though I said the Catholics don't know much about the Bible (not all of course) they at least stick with their Christian Doctrines, unlike the protestant Churches who know the Bible, yet show no difference in their lives then the Catholics. So who are more hypocritical, the Catholics, or the Protestants? .. know what I mean?

What do you mean by "before it's too late"? I am making leaps and bounds towards understanding God, His son Word, and understanding who I am and where I live, where I hope to go after I die and the importance of sticking with Gods Word over man made doctrines. God is not just another deity for me, nor is Jesus Christ God. Now after Christs resurrection, God did deify (raised) Jesus above all of His creation, above all principalities and powers, and every knee shall bow down before him in praise of our God and his God. But this does Not make Jesus the son of God any more God, nor does this make Our Infinite and Eternal God any less God, you know what I mean?

God bless

Arius

Well I have tried every other way to get you to see there are TRUE Christians out there that are just waiting for Jesus  to take them away in the clouds.  But it seems you are also stuck on Christian doctrines.

So, a question is this. There are many Christian doctrines, do you have one in particular you do not like and can expand on why?

Blade
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Arius on February 18, 2019, 02:29:09 pm
Quote
Bladerunner said: Well I have tried every other way to get you to see there are TRUE Christians out there that are just waiting for Jesus  to take them away in the clouds.  But it seems you are also stuck on Christian doctrines.

So, a question is this. There are many Christian doctrines, do you have one in particular you do not like and can expand on why?

Blade

Me too, I have tried to explain every way possible that the TRUE Christian is the RCC-Christian, and the 'foundation' of Christianity are:

1 Constantine's sword as the cross
(While the disciples of Christs Church lived as sheep ready for slaughter, not as Constantine's butchers. This goes for every denomination, not just Catholic)

2 three-gods doctrine aka the Trinity are their gods.
(Jesus never claimed that he was GOD, but throughout the New Testament we can read how he consistently denied such accusations)

3 Jesus is their sun-god worshipped on Sunday, in a Helios-centric solar/sun system which is in a universe created by Satan himself.
(Christians still believe in the globe earth, with a heliocentric solar system just as the pagan Gentiles always have. They can call their gods whatever they want;

Elohim (God)
Yahweh (Lord, Jehovah)
El Elyon (The Most High God)
Adonai (Lord, Master)
El Shaddai (Lord God Almighty)
El Olam (The Everlasting God)
Jehovah Jireh (The Lord Will Provide)
Jehovah Rapha (The Lord Who Heals You)
Jehovah Nissi (The Lord Is My Banner)
El Qanna (Jealous God)
Jehovah Mekoddishkem (The Lord Who Sanctifies You)
Jehovah Shalom (The Lord Is Peace)
Jehovah Sabaoth (The Lord of Hosts)
Jehovah Raah (The Lord Is My Shepherd)
Jehovah Tsidkenu (The Lord Our Righteousness)
Jehovah Shammah (The Lord Is There)

But at the end, it's how we understand who God really is, and who His son Word really is.
Jesus may now be above all principalities and powers, but all that is, is for the Glory Of God, and not to take our mind off of God. The whole concept of "Christianity" is concentrated on the sun-god Jesus, and not that he came to reveal God to us.

Like Moses talked to God many times, and both the children of Israel and the Egyptians seen him/Moses as God, .. yet at the end, after he brought the children of Israel out of Egypt, he still wanted to "see God"!?
Why?
Because he knew even though it was God present in all those manifestations, it was not the true nature of God. Moses wanted to see/understand Gods true self.

But Constantine's Christian church, instead of coming to know/see/understand the true nature of God, they made one up, which is the Trinity gods.
If not Trinitarian Christians, then they make up other unbiblical versions, as long as it's not the One and Only Infinite and Eternal "I Am", .. not understood as a created being, but the Ground of Being. That's what Infinite and Eternal means, the ground of being. And when God told Moses His name "I Am", it revealed His True Nature: Infinite/Eternal Conscious Mind/Spirit that no created being can see.
Just as we can't see our own or each others "mind", there is no physical manifestation of God either, so just as our spirit/mind remains invisible, so does God.

This is why Christians defend their "Christian Religion" rather than care what people say about Bible God. This reveals just exactly who their god is; a made up idol/idols.

This was so evident on every "Christian Debating Forum" that I have ever been on, they did not care what Muslims, Hindus, atheists and even Satan worshipper members said about God, as long as they did not attack their Christian Doctrine of their trinity-gods.

Tell me this is not true?
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Bladerunner on February 18, 2019, 07:09:26 pm
Quote
Bladerunner said: Well I have tried every other way to get you to see there are TRUE Christians out there that are just waiting for Jesus  to take them away in the clouds.  But it seems you are also stuck on Christian doctrines.

So, a question is this. There are many Christian doctrines, do you have one in particular you do not like and can expand on why?

Blade

Me too, I have tried to explain every way possible that the TRUE Christian is the RCC-Christian, and the 'foundation' of Christianity are:

1 Constantine's sword as the cross
(While the disciples of Christs Church lived as sheep ready for slaughter, not as Constantine's butchers. This goes for every denomination, not just Catholic)

2 three-gods doctrine aka the Trinity are their gods.
(Jesus never claimed that he was GOD, but throughout the New Testament we can read how he consistently denied such accusations)

3 Jesus is their sun-god worshipped on Sunday, in a Helios-centric solar/sun system which is in a universe created by Satan himself.
(Christians still believe in the globe earth, with a heliocentric solar system just as the pagan Gentiles always have. They can call their gods whatever they want;

Elohim (God)
Yahweh (Lord, Jehovah)
El Elyon (The Most High God)
Adonai (Lord, Master)
El Shaddai (Lord God Almighty)
El Olam (The Everlasting God)
Jehovah Jireh (The Lord Will Provide)
Jehovah Rapha (The Lord Who Heals You)
Jehovah Nissi (The Lord Is My Banner)
El Qanna (Jealous God)
Jehovah Mekoddishkem (The Lord Who Sanctifies You)
Jehovah Shalom (The Lord Is Peace)
Jehovah Sabaoth (The Lord of Hosts)
Jehovah Raah (The Lord Is My Shepherd)
Jehovah Tsidkenu (The Lord Our Righteousness)
Jehovah Shammah (The Lord Is There)

But at the end, it's how we understand who God really is, and who His son Word really is.
Jesus may now be above all principalities and powers, but all that is, is for the Glory Of God, and not to take our mind off of God. The whole concept of "Christianity" is concentrated on the sun-god Jesus, and not that he came to reveal God to us.

Like Moses talked to God many times, and both the children of Israel and the Egyptians seen him/Moses as God, .. yet at the end, after he brought the children of Israel out of Egypt, he still wanted to "see God"!?
Why?
Because he knew even though it was God present in all those manifestations, it was not the true nature of God. Moses wanted to see/understand Gods true self.

But Constantine's Christian church, instead of coming to know/see/understand the true nature of God, they made one up, which is the Trinity gods.
If not Trinitarian Christians, then they make up other unbiblical versions, as long as it's not the One and Only Infinite and Eternal "I Am", .. not understood as a created being, but the Ground of Being. That's what Infinite and Eternal means, the ground of being. And when God told Moses His name "I Am", it revealed His True Nature: Infinite/Eternal Conscious Mind/Spirit that no created being can see.
Just as we can't see our own or each others "mind", there is no physical manifestation of God either, so just as our spirit/mind remains invisible, so does God.

This is why Christians defend their "Christian Religion" rather than care what people say about Bible God. This reveals just exactly who their god is; a made up idol/idols.

This was so evident on every "Christian Debating Forum" that I have ever been on, they did not care what Muslims, Hindus, atheists and even Satan worshipper members said about God, as long as they did not attack their Christian Doctrine of their trinity-gods.

Tell me this is not true?

And I have tried every way to show you why the TRUE CHRISTIAN is NOT the same as the RCC.

I guess we have nothing else to discuss.

Blade
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Arius on February 21, 2019, 07:01:05 pm
Quote
Bladerunner said:
And I have tried every way to show you why the TRUE CHRISTIAN is NOT the same as the RCC.

I guess we have nothing else to discuss.

Blade

Acts 11:26
And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.

If someone calls me an "Idiot" for believing, and following in the footsteps of Jesus Christ who said he was "the Way, the truth and the Life", doesn't mean I have to accept it and go by that derogatory name, right?

Now if you can show me where the Early Disciples who walked as "followers of the Way" ever 'referred to themselves as "Christians", then we would have something to go on. Instead we see it was something that burdened them, even to a point of suffering:

1 Peter 4:16
Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter.


No Disciple of Christ, especially no Apostle would ever suffer for being called: "Hey you; follower of the Way!" But being mocked by a word like "Christian" can get tiresome.

Now we know who made a Religion out of that name though, .. right? Rome did through Constantine with his Roman Catholic Church who worshipped many gods, but especially the sun god. You really cannot deny this, as I have shown you many YouTube videos of the RCC Christians worshipping the sun god on Sundays.
Also, where did the Apostles ever mention that "God is three persons", .. where? Show me even ONE mention in the Bible of God being "three persons", or "being baptized three times", or either the "son Word, or the Holy Spirit is just one person who make up God as a Trinity" or that "God is plural, made up of many"? But I can show you a demon who actually was plural. One, made up of many:

Mark 5:9
Then He asked him, “What is your name?” And he answered, saying, “My name is Legion; for we are many.”

Mark 5:15
Then they came to Jesus, and saw the one who had been demon-possessed and had the legion, sitting and clothed and in his right mind. And they were afraid.

Luke 8:30
Jesus asked him, saying, “What is your name?” And he said, “Legion,” because many demons had entered him.


Arius
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Bladerunner on February 22, 2019, 07:48:25 pm
Quote
Bladerunner said:
And I have tried every way to show you why the TRUE CHRISTIAN is NOT the same as the RCC.

I guess we have nothing else to discuss.

Blade

Acts 11:26
And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.

If someone calls me an "Idiot" for believing, and following in the footsteps of Jesus Christ who said he was "the Way, the truth and the Life", doesn't mean I have to accept it and go by that derogatory name, right?

Now if you can show me where the Early Disciples who walked as "followers of the Way" ever 'referred to themselves as "Christians", then we would have something to go on. Instead we see it was something that burdened them, even to a point of suffering:

1 Peter 4:16
Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter.


No Disciple of Christ, especially no Apostle would ever suffer for being called: "Hey you; follower of the Way!" But being mocked by a word like "Christian" can get tiresome.

Now we know who made a Religion out of that name though, .. right? Rome did through Constantine with his Roman Catholic Church who worshipped many gods, but especially the sun god. You really cannot deny this, as I have shown you many YouTube videos of the RCC Christians worshipping the sun god on Sundays.
Also, where did the Apostles ever mention that "God is three persons", .. where? Show me even ONE mention in the Bible of God being "three persons", or "being baptized three times", or either the "son Word, or the Holy Spirit is just one person who make up God as a Trinity" or that "God is plural, made up of many"? But I can show you a demon who actually was plural. One, made up of many:

Mark 5:9
Then He asked him, “What is your name?” And he answered, saying, “My name is Legion; for we are many.”

Mark 5:15
Then they came to Jesus, and saw the one who had been demon-possessed and had the legion, sitting and clothed and in his right mind. And they were afraid.

Luke 8:30
Jesus asked him, saying, “What is your name?” And he said, “Legion,” because many demons had entered him.


Arius

The word Christian is a greek word: "Χριστιανός Christianós, khris-tee-an-os'; from G5547; a Christian, i.e. follower of Christ:—Christian. "

The word appears three times in the Bible in three unique forms.

You follower of the Way only appears once in the NIV version ( a corrupted version) and it reads like this.......

Acts 24:14 (NIV).."However, I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets, "

Acts 24:14 (KJV).."But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: "

During the days of Paul, the Judaizers called (the followers of the Way) those that followed the LAW and the Prophets. Paul made it clear that He believed in all things written yet, in later verses he confirms that he is helping fulfill them.

You are following the wrong path my friend. The only way to Heaven is through Jesus Christ by Faith. (1 COR 15:1-4)

Blade
Blade
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Arius on February 26, 2019, 08:06:25 pm
Quote
Bladerunner said:
And I have tried every way to show you why the TRUE CHRISTIAN is NOT the same as the RCC.

I guess we have nothing else to discuss.

Blade

Acts 11:26
And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.

If someone calls me an "Idiot" for believing, and following in the footsteps of Jesus Christ who said he was "the Way, the truth and the Life", doesn't mean I have to accept it and go by that derogatory name, right?

Now if you can show me where the Early Disciples who walked as "followers of the Way" ever 'referred to themselves as "Christians", then we would have something to go on. Instead we see it was something that burdened them, even to a point of suffering:

1 Peter 4:16
Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter.


No Disciple of Christ, especially no Apostle would ever suffer for being called: "Hey you; follower of the Way!" But being mocked by a word like "Christian" can get tiresome.

Now we know who made a Religion out of that name though, .. right? Rome did through Constantine with his Roman Catholic Church who worshipped many gods, but especially the sun god. You really cannot deny this, as I have shown you many YouTube videos of the RCC Christians worshipping the sun god on Sundays.
Also, where did the Apostles ever mention that "God is three persons", .. where? Show me even ONE mention in the Bible of God being "three persons", or "being baptized three times", or either the "son Word, or the Holy Spirit is just one person who make up God as a Trinity" or that "God is plural, made up of many"? But I can show you a demon who actually was plural. One, made up of many:

Mark 5:9
Then He asked him, “What is your name?” And he answered, saying, “My name is Legion; for we are many.”

Mark 5:15
Then they came to Jesus, and saw the one who had been demon-possessed and had the legion, sitting and clothed and in his right mind. And they were afraid.

Luke 8:30
Jesus asked him, saying, “What is your name?” And he said, “Legion,” because many demons had entered him.


Arius

The word Christian is a greek word: "Χριστιανός Christianós, khris-tee-an-os'; from G5547; a Christian, i.e. follower of Christ:—Christian. "

The word appears three times in the Bible in three unique forms.

You follower of the Way only appears once in the NIV version ( a corrupted version) and it reads like this.......

Acts 24:14 (NIV).."However, I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets, "

Acts 24:14 (KJV).."But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: "

During the days of Paul, the Judaizers called (the followers of the Way) those that followed the LAW and the Prophets. Paul made it clear that He believed in all things written yet, in later verses he confirms that he is helping fulfill them.

You are following the wrong path my friend. The only way to Heaven is through Jesus Christ by Faith. (1 COR 15:1-4)

Blade
Blade

So what you're saying is that Paul was a rebel, a "Follower of the Way", .. a pusher of the Law rather than a Believer by faith? No wonder he opened the door to the Gentiles, he was mad, and went according to the Jewish Law, and by hallucinations.

I guess Christian does have the word "Christ" in it, while the "follower of the Way, the Truth and the Life" does not. Besides, Christianity being the most numerous and militarily the most powerful Religion on the Globe proves they follow Christ because it's obvious the gods are with them. The gods, .. especially the son-god is definitely strong in this one, even helped wipe them "Follower of the Way" heretics off the face of the globe.

“You almost persuade me to become a Christian” Blade, and if Paul knew what would come in the near future he would have rejoiced in not only turning King Agrippa into a Christian, but the entire Roman Empire! Maybe King Agrippa had something to do with Christianity becoming the most mighty Religion for the next 1,700 years, and maybe he past it down to Constantine!?

I mean it sounds pretty convincing, .. better than following a loser, "a failure on the cross" as the Holiest of Christian Fathers says.
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Bladerunner on February 26, 2019, 09:22:15 pm
Quote
Bladerunner said:
And I have tried every way to show you why the TRUE CHRISTIAN is NOT the same as the RCC.

I guess we have nothing else to discuss.

Blade



Acts 11:26
And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.

If someone calls me an "Idiot" for believing, and following in the footsteps of Jesus Christ who said he was "the Way, the truth and the Life", doesn't mean I have to accept it and go by that derogatory name, right?

Now if you can show me where the Early Disciples who walked as "followers of the Way" ever 'referred to themselves as "Christians", then we would have something to go on. Instead we see it was something that burdened them, even to a point of suffering:

1 Peter 4:16
Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter.


No Disciple of Christ, especially no Apostle would ever suffer for being called: "Hey you; follower of the Way!" But being mocked by a word like "Christian" can get tiresome.

Now we know who made a Religion out of that name though, .. right? Rome did through Constantine with his Roman Catholic Church who worshipped many gods, but especially the sun god. You really cannot deny this, as I have shown you many YouTube videos of the RCC Christians worshipping the sun god on Sundays.
Also, where did the Apostles ever mention that "God is three persons", .. where? Show me even ONE mention in the Bible of God being "three persons", or "being baptized three times", or either the "son Word, or the Holy Spirit is just one person who make up God as a Trinity" or that "God is plural, made up of many"? But I can show you a demon who actually was plural. One, made up of many:

Mark 5:9
Then He asked him, “What is your name?” And he answered, saying, “My name is Legion; for we are many.”

Mark 5:15
Then they came to Jesus, and saw the one who had been demon-possessed and had the legion, sitting and clothed and in his right mind. And they were afraid.

Luke 8:30
Jesus asked him, saying, “What is your name?” And he said, “Legion,” because many demons had entered him.


Arius

The word Christian is a greek word: "Χριστιανός Christianós, khris-tee-an-os'; from G5547; a Christian, i.e. follower of Christ:—Christian. "

The word appears three times in the Bible in three unique forms.

You follower of the Way only appears once in the NIV version ( a corrupted version) and it reads like this.......

Acts 24:14 (NIV).."However, I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets, "

Acts 24:14 (KJV).."But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: "

During the days of Paul, the Judaizers called (the followers of the Way) those that followed the LAW and the Prophets. Paul made it clear that He believed in all things written yet, in later verses he confirms that he is helping fulfill them.

You are following the wrong path my friend. The only way to Heaven is through Jesus Christ by Faith. (1 COR 15:1-4)

Blade
Blade

So what you're saying is that Paul was a rebel, a "Follower of the Way", .. a pusher of the Law rather than a Believer by faith? No wonder he opened the door to the Gentiles, he was mad, and went according to the Jewish Law, and by hallucinations.

I guess Christian does have the word "Christ" in it, while the "follower of the Way, the Truth and the Life" does not. Besides, Christianity being the most numerous and militarily the most powerful Religion on the Globe proves they follow Christ because it's obvious the gods are with them. The gods, .. especially the son-god is definitely strong in this one, even helped wipe them "Follower of the Way" heretics off the face of the globe.

“You almost persuade me to become a Christian” Blade, and if Paul knew what would come in the near future he would have rejoiced in not only turning King Agrippa into a Christian, but the entire Roman Empire! Maybe King Agrippa had something to do with Christianity becoming the most mighty Religion for the next 1,700 years, and maybe he past it down to Constantine!?

I mean it sounds pretty convincing, .. better than following a loser, "a failure on the cross" as the Holiest of Christian Fathers says.

Arius,, Try rereading this verse again. "Paul made it clear that He believed in all things written yet, in later verses he confirms that he is helping fulfill them."

Thats right, the very tiny word of YET, also means future. "all things written yet" Paul believed in Jesus Christ and all things written in the future. This is confirmed to be a future date as "he is helping to fulfill them."

The judaizers were those Jews that followed the law of Moses for they had rejected Jesus Christ as their Messiah.

I have not changed Arius. I am open to all ideas about the Bible and GOD's WORD but reserved the right to reject them at any time.

Blade




"
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Arius on March 02, 2019, 02:08:11 am
Quote
Bladerunner said:
And I have tried every way to show you why the TRUE CHRISTIAN is NOT the same as the RCC.

I guess we have nothing else to discuss.

Blade


Acts 11:26
And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.

If someone calls me an "Idiot" for believing, and following in the footsteps of Jesus Christ who said he was "the Way, the truth and the Life", doesn't mean I have to accept it and go by that derogatory name, right?

Now if you can show me where the Early Disciples who walked as "followers of the Way" ever 'referred to themselves as "Christians", then we would have something to go on. Instead we see it was something that burdened them, even to a point of suffering:

1 Peter 4:16
Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter.


No Disciple of Christ, especially no Apostle would ever suffer for being called: "Hey you; follower of the Way!" But being mocked by a word like "Christian" can get tiresome.

Now we know who made a Religion out of that name though, .. right? Rome did through Constantine with his Roman Catholic Church who worshipped many gods, but especially the sun god. You really cannot deny this, as I have shown you many YouTube videos of the RCC Christians worshipping the sun god on Sundays.
Also, where did the Apostles ever mention that "God is three persons", .. where? Show me even ONE mention in the Bible of God being "three persons", or "being baptized three times", or either the "son Word, or the Holy Spirit is just one person who make up God as a Trinity" or that "God is plural, made up of many"? But I can show you a demon who actually was plural. One, made up of many:

Mark 5:9
Then He asked him, “What is your name?” And he answered, saying, “My name is Legion; for we are many.”

Mark 5:15
Then they came to Jesus, and saw the one who had been demon-possessed and had the legion, sitting and clothed and in his right mind. And they were afraid.

Luke 8:30
Jesus asked him, saying, “What is your name?” And he said, “Legion,” because many demons had entered him.


Arius

The word Christian is a greek word: "Χριστιανός Christianós, khris-tee-an-os'; from G5547; a Christian, i.e. follower of Christ:—Christian. "

The word appears three times in the Bible in three unique forms.

You follower of the Way only appears once in the NIV version ( a corrupted version) and it reads like this.......

Acts 24:14 (NIV).."However, I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets, "

Acts 24:14 (KJV).."But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: "

During the days of Paul, the Judaizers called (the followers of the Way) those that followed the LAW and the Prophets. Paul made it clear that He believed in all things written yet, in later verses he confirms that he is helping fulfill them.

You are following the wrong path my friend. The only way to Heaven is through Jesus Christ by Faith. (1 COR 15:1-4)

Blade
Blade

So what you're saying is that Paul was a rebel, a "Follower of the Way", .. a pusher of the Law rather than a Believer by faith? No wonder he opened the door to the Gentiles, he was mad, and went according to the Jewish Law, and by hallucinations.

I guess Christian does have the word "Christ" in it, while the "follower of the Way, the Truth and the Life" does not. Besides, Christianity being the most numerous and militarily the most powerful Religion on the Globe proves they follow Christ because it's obvious the gods are with them. The gods, .. especially the son-god is definitely strong in this one, even helped wipe them "Follower of the Way" heretics off the face of the globe.

“You almost persuade me to become a Christian” Blade, and if Paul knew what would come in the near future he would have rejoiced in not only turning King Agrippa into a Christian, but the entire Roman Empire! Maybe King Agrippa had something to do with Christianity becoming the most mighty Religion for the next 1,700 years, and maybe he past it down to Constantine!?

I mean it sounds pretty convincing, .. better than following a loser, "a failure on the cross" as the Holiest of Christian Fathers says.

Arius,, Try rereading this verse again. "Paul made it clear that He believed in all things written yet, in later verses he confirms that he is helping fulfill them."

Thats right, the very tiny word of YET, also means future. "all things written yet" Paul believed in Jesus Christ and all things written in the future. This is confirmed to be a future date as "he is helping to fulfill them."

The judaizers were those Jews that followed the law of Moses for they had rejected Jesus Christ as their Messiah.

I have not changed Arius. I am open to all ideas about the Bible and GOD's WORD but reserved the right to reject them at any time.

Blade

"

Yes my friend, we have free will, and like billions of people out there, we can accept, or reject Scripture, .. especially the verses that were "added" to support the Trinity Doctrine. And you can reject Paul, and even Jesus himself.
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Bladerunner on March 02, 2019, 06:20:05 pm
Quote
Bladerunner said:
And I have tried every way to show you why the TRUE CHRISTIAN is NOT the same as the RCC.

I guess we have nothing else to discuss.

Blade


Acts 11:26
And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.

If someone calls me an "Idiot" for believing, and following in the footsteps of Jesus Christ who said he was "the Way, the truth and the Life", doesn't mean I have to accept it and go by that derogatory name, right?

Now if you can show me where the Early Disciples who walked as "followers of the Way" ever 'referred to themselves as "Christians", then we would have something to go on. Instead we see it was something that burdened them, even to a point of suffering:

1 Peter 4:16
Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter.


No Disciple of Christ, especially no Apostle would ever suffer for being called: "Hey you; follower of the Way!" But being mocked by a word like "Christian" can get tiresome.

Now we know who made a Religion out of that name though, .. right? Rome did through Constantine with his Roman Catholic Church who worshipped many gods, but especially the sun god. You really cannot deny this, as I have shown you many YouTube videos of the RCC Christians worshipping the sun god on Sundays.
Also, where did the Apostles ever mention that "God is three persons", .. where? Show me even ONE mention in the Bible of God being "three persons", or "being baptized three times", or either the "son Word, or the Holy Spirit is just one person who make up God as a Trinity" or that "God is plural, made up of many"? But I can show you a demon who actually was plural. One, made up of many:

Mark 5:9
Then He asked him, “What is your name?” And he answered, saying, “My name is Legion; for we are many.”

Mark 5:15
Then they came to Jesus, and saw the one who had been demon-possessed and had the legion, sitting and clothed and in his right mind. And they were afraid.

Luke 8:30
Jesus asked him, saying, “What is your name?” And he said, “Legion,” because many demons had entered him.


Arius

The word Christian is a greek word: "Χριστιανός Christianós, khris-tee-an-os'; from G5547; a Christian, i.e. follower of Christ:—Christian. "

The word appears three times in the Bible in three unique forms.

You follower of the Way only appears once in the NIV version ( a corrupted version) and it reads like this.......

Acts 24:14 (NIV).."However, I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets, "

Acts 24:14 (KJV).."But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: "

During the days of Paul, the Judaizers called (the followers of the Way) those that followed the LAW and the Prophets. Paul made it clear that He believed in all things written yet, in later verses he confirms that he is helping fulfill them.

You are following the wrong path my friend. The only way to Heaven is through Jesus Christ by Faith. (1 COR 15:1-4)

Blade
Blade

So what you're saying is that Paul was a rebel, a "Follower of the Way", .. a pusher of the Law rather than a Believer by faith? No wonder he opened the door to the Gentiles, he was mad, and went according to the Jewish Law, and by hallucinations.

I guess Christian does have the word "Christ" in it, while the "follower of the Way, the Truth and the Life" does not. Besides, Christianity being the most numerous and militarily the most powerful Religion on the Globe proves they follow Christ because it's obvious the gods are with them. The gods, .. especially the son-god is definitely strong in this one, even helped wipe them "Follower of the Way" heretics off the face of the globe.

“You almost persuade me to become a Christian” Blade, and if Paul knew what would come in the near future he would have rejoiced in not only turning King Agrippa into a Christian, but the entire Roman Empire! Maybe King Agrippa had something to do with Christianity becoming the most mighty Religion for the next 1,700 years, and maybe he past it down to Constantine!?

I mean it sounds pretty convincing, .. better than following a loser, "a failure on the cross" as the Holiest of Christian Fathers says.

Arius,, Try rereading this verse again. "Paul made it clear that He believed in all things written yet, in later verses he confirms that he is helping fulfill them."

Thats right, the very tiny word of YET, also means future. "all things written yet" Paul believed in Jesus Christ and all things written in the future. This is confirmed to be a future date as "he is helping to fulfill them."

The judaizers were those Jews that followed the law of Moses for they had rejected Jesus Christ as their Messiah.

I have not changed Arius. I am open to all ideas about the Bible and GOD's WORD but reserved the right to reject them at any time.

Blade

"

Yes my friend, we have free will, and like billions of people out there, we can accept, or reject Scripture, .. especially the verses that were "added" to support the Trinity Doctrine. And you can reject Paul, and even Jesus himself.

I can reject Paul and Jesus? Paul is the our apostle during this period of GRACE. Jesus is  the Lord GOD. Now why would I reject either of them?

The verses in the KJV agree with around 5,000 manuscripts written by students of Rabbis, etc., who had the original epistles, gospels and other teachings of Jesus Christ and His writers.  They agree almost to perfection with the KJV.... If you want to study  the other versions and expect them to help get you to heaven then don't waste your breath. Most of them deny the deity of Jesus Christ and that my friend is a  huge problem.

You Aries, have a great day sir:

Blade
Title: Re: How long was Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Grace_Accepted on March 04, 2019, 10:08:48 pm
Quote
Satan was a Murderer from the Beginning.  This is what Jesus tells us in John 8:14.
No, in John 8:44 he calls the devil a murderer, not Satan. Also the doctrine of original sin fails of the presumption of innocence.


This is kind of a derail but I will answer.

The doctrine of original sin stands on the same principle as Levy tithing while still in Abraham's loins.


We sinned while still in Adam's loins.

I think it comes down to understanding sin in a broader since than just behavior.  Sin is a condition from which behaviors are produced.  Christ introduced this concept in the sermon on the mount and when he said, as a man thinks in his heart, so is he.

This condition results from the Spirit of God being absent from the soul of a man leaving merely the flesh.  As Jesus told Nicodemus, That which is born of spirit is spirit and that which is born of flesh is flesh.

When Adam and Eve sinned, the rejected the Spirit of God in them in favor of the serpents promises and thus became creatures of flesh in capable of sustaining righteousness.  Unfortunately, this condition was passed on to their off spring.

Like a pregnant mother who abuse drugs and passes on her abuses to her baby, we are born lacking God's indwelling spirit which makes sinful behavior all but inevitable as we develop.

Christ, in taking our place and bearing our seperatedness  from God restored that Connection for all who desire it.  So, it was not a specific behavior that God blamed us for but rather a God of love looking down on the broken Human race and sending His Son to bear our brokenness that we might enjoy His contentedness by Grace through our faith.

God Speed
Title: Re: How long was Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Arius on March 08, 2019, 01:06:58 pm
Quote
Satan was a Murderer from the Beginning.  This is what Jesus tells us in John 8:14.
No, in John 8:44 he calls the devil a murderer, not Satan. Also the doctrine of original sin fails of the presumption of innocence.


This is kind of a derail but I will answer.

The doctrine of original sin stands on the same principle as Levy tithing while still in Abraham's loins.


We sinned while still in Adam's loins.

I think it comes down to understanding sin in a broader since than just behavior.  Sin is a condition from which behaviors are produced.  Christ introduced this concept in the sermon on the mount and when he said, as a man thinks in his heart, so is he.

This condition results from the Spirit of God being absent from the soul of a man leaving merely the flesh.  As Jesus told Nicodemus, That which is born of spirit is spirit and that which is born of flesh is flesh.

When Adam and Eve sinned, the rejected the Spirit of God in them in favor of the serpents promises and thus became creatures of flesh in capable of sustaining righteousness.  Unfortunately, this condition was passed on to their off spring.

Like a pregnant mother who abuse drugs and passes on her abuses to her baby, we are born lacking God's indwelling spirit which makes sinful behavior all but inevitable as we develop.

Christ, in taking our place and bearing our seperatedness  from God restored that Connection for all who desire it.  So, it was not a specific behavior that God blamed us for but rather a God of love looking down on the broken Human race and sending His Son to bear our brokenness that we might enjoy His contentedness by Grace through our faith.

God Speed

Wow @Grace_Accepted, that totally makes sense Biblically/logically, I especially like your "mother on drugs" part. Also that it was "God sending His Son to bear our brokenness" and not that God came down.

God bless you.


Arius
Title: Re: How long was Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: patrick jane on March 08, 2019, 01:13:36 pm
Quote
Satan was a Murderer from the Beginning.  This is what Jesus tells us in John 8:14.
No, in John 8:44 he calls the devil a murderer, not Satan. Also the doctrine of original sin fails of the presumption of innocence.


This is kind of a derail but I will answer.

The doctrine of original sin stands on the same principle as Levy tithing while still in Abraham's loins.


We sinned while still in Adam's loins.

I think it comes down to understanding sin in a broader since than just behavior.  Sin is a condition from which behaviors are produced.  Christ introduced this concept in the sermon on the mount and when he said, as a man thinks in his heart, so is he.

This condition results from the Spirit of God being absent from the soul of a man leaving merely the flesh.  As Jesus told Nicodemus, That which is born of spirit is spirit and that which is born of flesh is flesh.

When Adam and Eve sinned, the rejected the Spirit of God in them in favor of the serpents promises and thus became creatures of flesh in capable of sustaining righteousness.  Unfortunately, this condition was passed on to their off spring.

Like a pregnant mother who abuse drugs and passes on her abuses to her baby, we are born lacking God's indwelling spirit which makes sinful behavior all but inevitable as we develop.

Christ, in taking our place and bearing our seperatedness  from God restored that Connection for all who desire it.  So, it was not a specific behavior that God blamed us for but rather a God of love looking down on the broken Human race and sending His Son to bear our brokenness that we might enjoy His contentedness by Grace through our faith.

God Speed

Wow @Grace_Accepted, that totally makes sense Biblically/logically, I especially like your "mother on drugs" part. Also that it was "God sending His Son to bear our brokenness" and not that God came down.

God bless you.


Arius
Arius my brother, are you also evidence on TF?
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Arius on March 08, 2019, 02:57:26 pm
Quote
Bladerunner said:
And I have tried every way to show you why the TRUE CHRISTIAN is NOT the same as the RCC.

I guess we have nothing else to discuss.

Blade


Acts 11:26
And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.

If someone calls me an "Idiot" for believing, and following in the footsteps of Jesus Christ who said he was "the Way, the truth and the Life", doesn't mean I have to accept it and go by that derogatory name, right?

Now if you can show me where the Early Disciples who walked as "followers of the Way" ever 'referred to themselves as "Christians", then we would have something to go on. Instead we see it was something that burdened them, even to a point of suffering:

1 Peter 4:16
Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter.


No Disciple of Christ, especially no Apostle would ever suffer for being called: "Hey you; follower of the Way!" But being mocked by a word like "Christian" can get tiresome.

Now we know who made a Religion out of that name though, .. right? Rome did through Constantine with his Roman Catholic Church who worshipped many gods, but especially the sun god. You really cannot deny this, as I have shown you many YouTube videos of the RCC Christians worshipping the sun god on Sundays.
Also, where did the Apostles ever mention that "God is three persons", .. where? Show me even ONE mention in the Bible of God being "three persons", or "being baptized three times", or either the "son Word, or the Holy Spirit is just one person who make up God as a Trinity" or that "God is plural, made up of many"? But I can show you a demon who actually was plural. One, made up of many:

Mark 5:9
Then He asked him, “What is your name?” And he answered, saying, “My name is Legion; for we are many.”

Mark 5:15
Then they came to Jesus, and saw the one who had been demon-possessed and had the legion, sitting and clothed and in his right mind. And they were afraid.

Luke 8:30
Jesus asked him, saying, “What is your name?” And he said, “Legion,” because many demons had entered him.


Arius

The word Christian is a greek word: "Χριστιανός Christianós, khris-tee-an-os'; from G5547; a Christian, i.e. follower of Christ:—Christian. "

The word appears three times in the Bible in three unique forms.

You follower of the Way only appears once in the NIV version ( a corrupted version) and it reads like this.......

Acts 24:14 (NIV).."However, I admit that I worship the God of our ancestors as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. I believe everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets, "

Acts 24:14 (KJV).."But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: "

During the days of Paul, the Judaizers called (the followers of the Way) those that followed the LAW and the Prophets. Paul made it clear that He believed in all things written yet, in later verses he confirms that he is helping fulfill them.

You are following the wrong path my friend. The only way to Heaven is through Jesus Christ by Faith. (1 COR 15:1-4)

Blade
Blade

So what you're saying is that Paul was a rebel, a "Follower of the Way", .. a pusher of the Law rather than a Believer by faith? No wonder he opened the door to the Gentiles, he was mad, and went according to the Jewish Law, and by hallucinations.

I guess Christian does have the word "Christ" in it, while the "follower of the Way, the Truth and the Life" does not. Besides, Christianity being the most numerous and militarily the most powerful Religion on the Globe proves they follow Christ because it's obvious the gods are with them. The gods, .. especially the son-god is definitely strong in this one, even helped wipe them "Follower of the Way" heretics off the face of the globe.

“You almost persuade me to become a Christian” Blade, and if Paul knew what would come in the near future he would have rejoiced in not only turning King Agrippa into a Christian, but the entire Roman Empire! Maybe King Agrippa had something to do with Christianity becoming the most mighty Religion for the next 1,700 years, and maybe he past it down to Constantine!?

I mean it sounds pretty convincing, .. better than following a loser, "a failure on the cross" as the Holiest of Christian Fathers says.

Arius,, Try rereading this verse again. "Paul made it clear that He believed in all things written yet, in later verses he confirms that he is helping fulfill them."

Thats right, the very tiny word of YET, also means future. "all things written yet" Paul believed in Jesus Christ and all things written in the future. This is confirmed to be a future date as "he is helping to fulfill them."

The judaizers were those Jews that followed the law of Moses for they had rejected Jesus Christ as their Messiah.

I have not changed Arius. I am open to all ideas about the Bible and GOD's WORD but reserved the right to reject them at any time.

Blade

"

Yes my friend, we have free will, and like billions of people out there, we can accept, or reject Scripture, .. especially the verses that were "added" to support the Trinity Doctrine. And you can reject Paul, and even Jesus himself.

I can reject Paul and Jesus? Paul is the our apostle during this period of GRACE. Jesus is  the Lord GOD. Now why would I reject either of them?

The verses in the KJV agree with around 5,000 manuscripts written by students of Rabbis, etc., who had the original epistles, gospels and other teachings of Jesus Christ and His writers.  They agree almost to perfection with the KJV.... If you want to study  the other versions and expect them to help get you to heaven then don't waste your breath. Most of them deny the deity of Jesus Christ and that my friend is a  huge problem.

You Aries, have a great day sir:

Blade

Sorry @Bladeruner, I must have misunderstood you!? I still stick with KJV and then switch to NKJV when I post, but exactly for the reason you hold on to the KJV, is the parts of it that I reject, the added deification of Gods son Word. Making the son equal to God, which is exactly what the Pharisees tried to do so they could accuse him on "blasphemy" charges.

.. Woe, wait, .. again this train of thought is wrong. It's like the Flat Earther saying: "Millions of people around the Globe believe that the earth is Flat", .. you know what I mean? That's just wrong. Well the same way in what I said above is wrong, and this is because in both cases (Trinity and Flat Earth) we been so brainwashed onto a false "track of mind" we just cant seem to get off of it, .. or time to time we find ourselves on it again.

I just realized this not long ago, and learned the proper use of the word "deification".
Definition of

deification - Marriam-Webster
: the act or an instance of deifying
Synonyms
adulation, hero worship, idolatry, idolization, worship, worshipping


Also:
Apotheosis is the glorification of a subject to divine level. The term has meanings in theology, where it refers to a belief, and in art, where it refers to a genre. In theology, apotheosis refers to the idea that an individual has been raised to godlike stature

So what really happen when we refer to our Infinite and Eternal Spirit/Mind Creator God as a "deity"? Look at the definition and ask ourselves: "Does God/Infinite need to be deified to godhood?"

Deification is the process, and deity is the product. God, Bible God our Creator cannot be a "product", especially from man.

Jesus on the other hand was deified by God Himself, who created him.

Ephesians 1:15 Therefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, 16 do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers: 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, 18 the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, 19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power 20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.

22 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.


So the son Word, who became flesh and dwelt amongst us whom now we know as "Jesus Christ" was deified/raised up by God, who is his God and our God, his Father and our Father above Moses (who God also deified as a god to both Pharaoh and his brother Aaron) and above all other Principalities and Powers, to the "Right Hand" of the Spirit-Power God Himself.

What the gentile Roman church who took on the mock name "Christian" did was deify Jesus to the height of God/Infinite, so they could not only kill Jesus, but God/Infinite Himself. If not in reality, they did it in the hearts and minds of men.


Arius
Title: Re: How long was Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Arius on March 08, 2019, 03:16:00 pm
Quote
Satan was a Murderer from the Beginning.  This is what Jesus tells us in John 8:14.
No, in John 8:44 he calls the devil a murderer, not Satan. Also the doctrine of original sin fails of the presumption of innocence.


This is kind of a derail but I will answer.

The doctrine of original sin stands on the same principle as Levy tithing while still in Abraham's loins.


We sinned while still in Adam's loins.

I think it comes down to understanding sin in a broader since than just behavior.  Sin is a condition from which behaviors are produced.  Christ introduced this concept in the sermon on the mount and when he said, as a man thinks in his heart, so is he.

This condition results from the Spirit of God being absent from the soul of a man leaving merely the flesh.  As Jesus told Nicodemus, That which is born of spirit is spirit and that which is born of flesh is flesh.

When Adam and Eve sinned, the rejected the Spirit of God in them in favor of the serpents promises and thus became creatures of flesh in capable of sustaining righteousness.  Unfortunately, this condition was passed on to their off spring.

Like a pregnant mother who abuse drugs and passes on her abuses to her baby, we are born lacking God's indwelling spirit which makes sinful behavior all but inevitable as we develop.

Christ, in taking our place and bearing our seperatedness  from God restored that Connection for all who desire it.  So, it was not a specific behavior that God blamed us for but rather a God of love looking down on the broken Human race and sending His Son to bear our brokenness that we might enjoy His contentedness by Grace through our faith.

God Speed

Wow @Grace_Accepted, that totally makes sense Biblically/logically, I especially like your "mother on drugs" part. Also that it was "God sending His Son to bear our brokenness" and not that God came down.

God bless you.


Arius
Arius my brother, are you also evidence on TF?

Patrick jane my Brother, why yes,  I thought you knew that? On "Christian Forums" I was Arius also, while on "Debate.org" I was Evidence

I was going to ask you, do you know a fellow Flat Earther going by "Erfisflat"?
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: patrick jane on March 08, 2019, 11:41:13 pm
Arius, yes I just wanted to make sure. I know so many people and forget names  but no I don't know Erfisflat. Invite him to both forums !!!
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Arius on March 13, 2019, 03:37:21 pm
Arius, yes I just wanted to make sure. I know so many people and forget names  but no I don't know Erfisflat. Invite him to both forums !!!

Running two Forums, no wonder. I forget my own name, if you were to ask me it real quick.

Have you ever been on Debate.org? You would have known Erfisflat there by the name slmjvd or something like that. Anyways, he got tired of the same ignorant bs from Globetard's, so after his wife's second, or was it 3rd baby, he called it quits.

I really though you were him when I seen you on Christian Forums. I loved that guy, he opened my eyes to our Flat earth, and many, many other Biblical truths with it.
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: patrick jane on March 13, 2019, 10:08:13 pm
Arius, yes I just wanted to make sure. I know so many people and forget names  but no I don't know Erfisflat. Invite him to both forums !!!

Running two Forums, no wonder. I forget my own name, if you were to ask me it real quick.

Have you ever been on Debate.org? You would have known Erfisflat there by the name slmjvd or something like that. Anyways, he got tired of the same ignorant bs from Globetard's, so after his wife's second, or was it 3rd baby, he called it quits.

I really though you were him when I seen you on Christian Forums. I loved that guy, he opened my eyes to our Flat earth, and many, many other Biblical truths with it.
I really like your posts and I learn from you so that you. You get me thinking about creation and the beginning AND the end. Keep it up I love it !!!
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Arius on March 17, 2019, 07:51:56 pm
Arius, yes I just wanted to make sure. I know so many people and forget names  but no I don't know Erfisflat. Invite him to both forums !!!

Running two Forums, no wonder. I forget my own name, if you were to ask me it real quick.

Have you ever been on Debate.org? You would have known Erfisflat there by the name slmjvd or something like that. Anyways, he got tired of the same ignorant bs from Globetard's, so after his wife's second, or was it 3rd baby, he called it quits.

I really though you were him when I seen you on Christian Forums. I loved that guy, he opened my eyes to our Flat earth, and many, many other Biblical truths with it.
I really like your posts and I learn from you so that you. You get me thinking about creation and the beginning AND the end. Keep it up I love it !!!

Now I just wish I could make you see the deception of the Christian Religion and their Trinity-gods doctrine, we could make some good YouTube videos to wake good people who love God, and the Bible up and back to the True and Only "Way".
I liken Christianity to NASA, both billionaires, rob people of the most money, cause the most pain and suffering in the world,and have the masses deceived by the same tricks.

NASA by pointing to the heavens, and RCC Christian pointing to the Bible. In both cases what they're pointing at, and what they explain about them do not exist.

Have you seen this, just today:

 FOX News
NASA’s Hubble space telescope captures two colliding galaxies

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/article/nasas-hubble-space-telescope-captures-two-colliding-galaxies/vi-BBUJ5DJ?ocid=spartanntp

Look at their headline, then look what they show Hubble (which is tucked away in a lab somewhere at Huston Center) "capturing"? Lol

Arius/evidence
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Bladerunner on March 18, 2019, 12:13:50 am
Arius, yes I just wanted to make sure. I know so many people and forget names  but no I don't know Erfisflat. Invite him to both forums !!!

Running two Forums, no wonder. I forget my own name, if you were to ask me it real quick.

Have you ever been on Debate.org? You would have known Erfisflat there by the name slmjvd or something like that. Anyways, he got tired of the same ignorant bs from Globetard's, so after his wife's second, or was it 3rd baby, he called it quits.

I really though you were him when I seen you on Christian Forums. I loved that guy, he opened my eyes to our Flat earth, and many, many other Biblical truths with it.
I really like your posts and I learn from you so that you. You get me thinking about creation and the beginning AND the end. Keep it up I love it !!!

Now I just wish I could make you see the deception of the Christian Religion and their Trinity-gods doctrine, we could make some good YouTube videos to wake good people who love God, and the Bible up and back to the True and Only "Way".
I liken Christianity to NASA, both billionaires, rob people of the most money, cause the most pain and suffering in the world,and have the masses deceived by the same tricks.

NASA by pointing to the heavens, and RCC Christian pointing to the Bible. In both cases what they're pointing at, and what they explain about them do not exist.

Have you seen this, just today:

 FOX News
NASA’s Hubble space telescope captures two colliding galaxies

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/article/nasas-hubble-space-telescope-captures-two-colliding-galaxies/vi-BBUJ5DJ?ocid=spartanntp

Look at their headline, then look what they show Hubble (which is tucked away in a lab somewhere at Huston Center) "capturing"? Lol

Arius/evidence

The use of Trinity-gods is false as well is your theology, Arius or Evidence

are you married and have kids>?//  Lets take NED for an example.
Ned says.. I am Ned, I am a son, I am a husband, I am Father, I am grandfather and so on.

Now the Lord God is far more complicated than that but in essence, Ned is all of those characters yet Ned is not. He reacts to his kids differently than He does with his grand-kids. He reacts differently to his wife  than he reacts to his parents as a son. Yet, if he make a commitment as a son to his father, it is he, NED who will be actually doing the essence of the commitment.

The Trinity comes from the three characters in essence, God (Our Lord) is(God, the Father), is (Jesus Christ) and is(the Holy Spirit). For these three essences react among themselves, the people of earth differently than each other yet they are the same LORD GOD.

thus God is Jesus Christ and God is the Holy Spirit and vice versa.

Of course I know that your theology only allows that Jesus is not GOD but a god who was raised to that level when he ascended to heaven after his resurrection.

Yet, in Isaiah 48:12"Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last."  This is Jesus speaking for in the next verse.

Isa 48:13 "Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together."  Then in Isa 48:16

Isa 48:16  "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me."  As you can see they sent Jesus Christ.

Having established who this is, the in verse 12, we see the same words used by Jesus again in Revelation 1:11.."I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last:".

This is in the OT and a prophecy that He will come to them as the messiah, yet because in the same chapter, He is also talking about His second coming, they did not separate them out, thus rejecting their messiah.

As we see in 1 Tim 3:16.."And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

"God was manifest in the flesh" was Jesus Christ

There are a lot of verses that tell us not only that Jesus is GOD but also the Holy Spirit is GOD.

Yet, to deny the Deity of Jesus Christ, is to deny the Trinity if not in word only for the word "Trinity" doe not appear in the Bible. Thus it is easier for those that taught you to feed you a false gospel and for you to continue feeding that false gospel to others.

Blade
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Arius on March 19, 2019, 12:54:21 am
Arius, yes I just wanted to make sure. I know so many people and forget names  but no I don't know Erfisflat. Invite him to both forums !!!

Running two Forums, no wonder. I forget my own name, if you were to ask me it real quick.

Have you ever been on Debate.org? You would have known Erfisflat there by the name slmjvd or something like that. Anyways, he got tired of the same ignorant bs from Globetard's, so after his wife's second, or was it 3rd baby, he called it quits.

I really though you were him when I seen you on Christian Forums. I loved that guy, he opened my eyes to our Flat earth, and many, many other Biblical truths with it.
I really like your posts and I learn from you so that you. You get me thinking about creation and the beginning AND the end. Keep it up I love it !!!

Now I just wish I could make you see the deception of the Christian Religion and their Trinity-gods doctrine, we could make some good YouTube videos to wake good people who love God, and the Bible up and back to the True and Only "Way".
I liken Christianity to NASA, both billionaires, rob people of the most money, cause the most pain and suffering in the world,and have the masses deceived by the same tricks.

NASA by pointing to the heavens, and RCC Christian pointing to the Bible. In both cases what they're pointing at, and what they explain about them do not exist.

Have you seen this, just today:

 FOX News
NASA’s Hubble space telescope captures two colliding galaxies

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/article/nasas-hubble-space-telescope-captures-two-colliding-galaxies/vi-BBUJ5DJ?ocid=spartanntp

Look at their headline, then look what they show Hubble (which is tucked away in a lab somewhere at Huston Center) "capturing"? Lol

Arius/evidence


The use of Trinity-gods is false as well is your theology, Arius or Evidence

My dear friend Blade, I just want you to know that I am not trying to turn you, or anyone to some religion I belong to, or some idea I cam up with. God forbid, because I have made many mistakes in my life, the last thing I would want is people following me on some idea I threw together, and like many cult leaders try hard to convince others to follow suit. No and no.

What God has revealed to me has been tested by Scholars, many Ministers with Doctorates in Theology, Christian Debater who has over a thousand debate-videos with Muslims, JW's to Moody, and every Christian/atheist/Mormon/Buddhist/Muslim/Catholic Scholar I have debated with over the past 25 years, and the more educated ones in Theology have all ended up saying: "You know what Arius, I honestly can't say what you believe is not Scriptural because you back up everything with the Bible, and I even admit it is within context, .. but I just cannot accept what you are saying."

One TV Debater who has over a thousand videos on YouTube said regarding our 4 hour debate on the Trinity: "I know what you are saying, and I'm not denying that it's all Scriptural, all I can tell you is: Even if God Himself came down and told me this, I would reject it!"

The Lord is my witness this is what he said. And when he told me this, he looked up at the ceiling, then broke a little laughter and said: "I know how that sounds, but that's all I can tell you. And sorry, but I don't want to do an official video debate with you, matter of fact, this will be our last meeting."

Here is the guy; Larry Wessels

https://www.youtube.com/user/CAnswersTV

Yep, Christian Answers TV and this is the answer he gave me. Look if this guy refused anyone, even cult members, Muslims outside the college campuses etc. He would track them down and never seen him back away from even a violent debate, let alone welcomed as a guest in my own home.

Anyways, I used to love his TV Program, watched him every time he was on. Here is an example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN4s2vG65dU

Quote from: Blade
are you married and have kids>?//  Lets take NED for an example.
Ned says.. I am Ned, I am a son, I am a husband, I am Father, I am grandfather and so on.

Now the Lord God is far more complicated than that but in essence, Ned is all of those characters yet Ned is not. He reacts to his kids differently than He does with his grand-kids. He reacts differently to his wife  than he reacts to his parents as a son. Yet, if he make a commitment as a son to his father, it is he, NED who will be actually doing the essence of the commitment.

Yes, that is a very good example Blade, except if I heard NED praying to himself as Father-NED, I would start worrying about his mental state. I would say that somewhere he got his wires crossed.
It would be different if he went to his dad and asked him for something, but to see him refer to himself as his own father, well you know what I mean?

Quote from: Blade
The Trinity comes from the three characters in essence, God (Our Lord) is(God, the Father), is (Jesus Christ) and is(the Holy Spirit). For these three essences react among themselves, the people of earth differently than each other yet they are the same LORD GOD.

And look, I'm sure Larry Wessels would even agree with you, as would about a million Christian Ministers, Bible Scholars etc. but would not debate this with me for too long (most was Larry Wessels at my house in Texas about 4-5 hours long)
I have never left a debate, but every one of them did want to leave, and as friendly as our meeting was, they shown no interest to have it repeated, .. ESPECIALLY Recorded, as Larry moved the video camera pointing to the wall so only the sound could be heard. He said he only does Professional video shooting.

I will hold on to what is written, it is all I have, and if I give that up, then my 62 years of persecutions would be all for nothing, and I would really have nothing left than what Jobs wife suggested him:

Job 2:9  (NKJV)
9 Then his wife said to him, “Do you still hold fast to your integrity? Curse God and die!”

Quote from: Blade
thus God is Jesus Christ and God is the Holy Spirit and vice versa.

Of course I know that your theology only allows that Jesus is not GOD but a god who was raised to that level when he ascended to heaven after his resurrection.

Yet, in Isaiah 48:12"Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last."  This is Jesus speaking for in the next verse.

Isa 48:13 "Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together."  Then in Isa 48:16

Isa 48:16  "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me."  As you can see they sent Jesus Christ.

Look, this is NOT some theology that I was taught:

Theology is the critical study of the nature of the divine. It is taught as an academic discipline, typically in universities and seminaries - Wikipedia

 or my Religious belief, or some doctrine I made up, this is how I read it in the Bible. I'm simple, dumb, under-schooled, but so far I have stuck to the Word of God, and have not found even one person who could prove I am wrong, .. or that my understanding is incorrect.
I have shown you many times who the Bible says who God is, and who is His son Word, who became flesh by Gods Spirit Angel the Holy Spirit who took the son Word and deconstructed him into DNA information which he put into the egg of a virgin, where she got pregnant, gave birth to a boy she was told to name Jesus. I mean even we can do this now, so since we are created in Gods image, I figure it is how God done it too, right?

All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

(John 1:1-14)

Quote from: Blade
Having established who this is, the in verse 12, we see the same words used by Jesus again in Revelation 1:11.."I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last:".

This is in the OT and a prophecy that He will come to them as the messiah, yet because in the same chapter, He is also talking about His second coming, they did not separate them out, thus rejecting their messiah.

As we see in 1 Tim 3:16.."And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

"God was manifest in the flesh" was Jesus Christ

Look, just accept it like it says: God was manifested in the flesh, IN Jesus Christ, not AS Jesus Christ, who was with God in the beginning as His son Word, who became flesh, .. then named Jesus. Never Father God, just the son of God Word.

Quote from: Blade
There are a lot of verses that tell us not only that Jesus is GOD but also the Holy Spirit is GOD.

Yet, to deny the Deity of Jesus Christ, is to deny the Trinity if not in word only for the word "Trinity" doe not appear in the Bible. Thus it is easier for those that taught you to feed you a false gospel and for you to continue feeding that false gospel to others.

Blade

Look, even you admit that this Trinity-gods doctrine is not Biblical, and even though I spelled it out a few time where and why and how this doctrine came about, if you would care about your soul salvation instead of this Christian ideology where everyone that dies automatically goes to Heaven, you would fall on your knees asking God of the Bible to have Jesus save you!
It is THAT important, .. the souls of Christian is on the line here.

This is all I have, whatever is written is where I stand, and stay. If Christian History as we can see it today through the Internet with pictures and videos and historical accounts can't steer you away from this evil doctrine, then nothing will.
I just pray you will not respond as my once friend Larry Wessels did!


Arius
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Bladerunner on March 19, 2019, 08:12:15 pm
Arius, yes I just wanted to make sure. I know so many people and forget names  but no I don't know Erfisflat. Invite him to both forums !!!

Running two Forums, no wonder. I forget my own name, if you were to ask me it real quick.

Have you ever been on Debate.org? You would have known Erfisflat there by the name slmjvd or something like that. Anyways, he got tired of the same ignorant bs from Globetard's, so after his wife's second, or was it 3rd baby, he called it quits.

I really though you were him when I seen you on Christian Forums. I loved that guy, he opened my eyes to our Flat earth, and many, many other Biblical truths with it.
I really like your posts and I learn from you so that you. You get me thinking about creation and the beginning AND the end. Keep it up I love it !!!

Now I just wish I could make you see the deception of the Christian Religion and their Trinity-gods doctrine, we could make some good YouTube videos to wake good people who love God, and the Bible up and back to the True and Only "Way".
I liken Christianity to NASA, both billionaires, rob people of the most money, cause the most pain and suffering in the world,and have the masses deceived by the same tricks.

NASA by pointing to the heavens, and RCC Christian pointing to the Bible. In both cases what they're pointing at, and what they explain about them do not exist.

Have you seen this, just today:

 FOX News
NASA’s Hubble space telescope captures two colliding galaxies

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/article/nasas-hubble-space-telescope-captures-two-colliding-galaxies/vi-BBUJ5DJ?ocid=spartanntp

Look at their headline, then look what they show Hubble (which is tucked away in a lab somewhere at Huston Center) "capturing"? Lol

Arius/evidence


The use of Trinity-gods is false as well is your theology, Arius or Evidence

My dear friend Blade, I just want you to know that I am not trying to turn you, or anyone to some religion I belong to, or some idea I cam up with. God forbid, because I have made many mistakes in my life, the last thing I would want is people following me on some idea I threw together, and like many cult leaders try hard to convince others to follow suit. No and no.

What God has revealed to me has been tested by Scholars, many Ministers with Doctorates in Theology, Christian Debater who has over a thousand debate-videos with Muslims, JW's to Moody, and every Christian/atheist/Mormon/Buddhist/Muslim/Catholic Scholar I have debated with over the past 25 years, and the more educated ones in Theology have all ended up saying: "You know what Arius, I honestly can't say what you believe is not Scriptural because you back up everything with the Bible, and I even admit it is within context, .. but I just cannot accept what you are saying."

One TV Debater who has over a thousand videos on YouTube said regarding our 4 hour debate on the Trinity: "I know what you are saying, and I'm not denying that it's all Scriptural, all I can tell you is: Even if God Himself came down and told me this, I would reject it!"

The Lord is my witness this is what he said. And when he told me this, he looked up at the ceiling, then broke a little laughter and said: "I know how that sounds, but that's all I can tell you. And sorry, but I don't want to do an official video debate with you, matter of fact, this will be our last meeting."

Here is the guy; Larry Wessels

https://www.youtube.com/user/CAnswersTV

Yep, Christian Answers TV and this is the answer he gave me. Look if this guy refused anyone, even cult members, Muslims outside the college campuses etc. He would track them down and never seen him back away from even a violent debate, let alone welcomed as a guest in my own home.

Anyways, I used to love his TV Program, watched him every time he was on. Here is an example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN4s2vG65dU

Quote from: Blade
are you married and have kids>?//  Lets take NED for an example.
Ned says.. I am Ned, I am a son, I am a husband, I am Father, I am grandfather and so on.

Now the Lord God is far more complicated than that but in essence, Ned is all of those characters yet Ned is not. He reacts to his kids differently than He does with his grand-kids. He reacts differently to his wife  than he reacts to his parents as a son. Yet, if he make a commitment as a son to his father, it is he, NED who will be actually doing the essence of the commitment.

Yes, that is a very good example Blade, except if I heard NED praying to himself as Father-NED, I would start worrying about his mental state. I would say that somewhere he got his wires crossed.
It would be different if he went to his dad and asked him for something, but to see him refer to himself as his own father, well you know what I mean?

Quote from: Blade
The Trinity comes from the three characters in essence, God (Our Lord) is(God, the Father), is (Jesus Christ) and is(the Holy Spirit). For these three essences react among themselves, the people of earth differently than each other yet they are the same LORD GOD.

And look, I'm sure Larry Wessels would even agree with you, as would about a million Christian Ministers, Bible Scholars etc. but would not debate this with me for too long (most was Larry Wessels at my house in Texas about 4-5 hours long)
I have never left a debate, but every one of them did want to leave, and as friendly as our meeting was, they shown no interest to have it repeated, .. ESPECIALLY Recorded, as Larry moved the video camera pointing to the wall so only the sound could be heard. He said he only does Professional video shooting.

I will hold on to what is written, it is all I have, and if I give that up, then my 62 years of persecutions would be all for nothing, and I would really have nothing left than what Jobs wife suggested him:

Job 2:9  (NKJV)
9 Then his wife said to him, “Do you still hold fast to your integrity? Curse God and die!”

Quote from: Blade
thus God is Jesus Christ and God is the Holy Spirit and vice versa.

Of course I know that your theology only allows that Jesus is not GOD but a god who was raised to that level when he ascended to heaven after his resurrection.

Yet, in Isaiah 48:12"Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last."  This is Jesus speaking for in the next verse.

Isa 48:13 "Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together."  Then in Isa 48:16

Isa 48:16  "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me."  As you can see they sent Jesus Christ.

Look, this is NOT some theology that I was taught:

Theology is the critical study of the nature of the divine. It is taught as an academic discipline, typically in universities and seminaries - Wikipedia

 or my Religious belief, or some doctrine I made up, this is how I read it in the Bible. I'm simple, dumb, under-schooled, but so far I have stuck to the Word of God, and have not found even one person who could prove I am wrong, .. or that my understanding is incorrect.
I have shown you many times who the Bible says who God is, and who is His son Word, who became flesh by Gods Spirit Angel the Holy Spirit who took the son Word and deconstructed him into DNA information which he put into the egg of a virgin, where she got pregnant, gave birth to a boy she was told to name Jesus. I mean even we can do this now, so since we are created in Gods image, I figure it is how God done it too, right?

All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

(John 1:1-14)

Quote from: Blade
Having established who this is, the in verse 12, we see the same words used by Jesus again in Revelation 1:11.."I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last:".

This is in the OT and a prophecy that He will come to them as the messiah, yet because in the same chapter, He is also talking about His second coming, they did not separate them out, thus rejecting their messiah.

As we see in 1 Tim 3:16.."And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

"God was manifest in the flesh" was Jesus Christ

Look, just accept it like it says: God was manifested in the flesh, IN Jesus Christ, not AS Jesus Christ, who was with God in the beginning as His son Word, who became flesh, .. then named Jesus. Never Father God, just the son of God Word.

Quote from: Blade
There are a lot of verses that tell us not only that Jesus is GOD but also the Holy Spirit is GOD.

Yet, to deny the Deity of Jesus Christ, is to deny the Trinity if not in word only for the word "Trinity" doe not appear in the Bible. Thus it is easier for those that taught you to feed you a false gospel and for you to continue feeding that false gospel to others.

Blade

Look, even you admit that this Trinity-gods doctrine is not Biblical, and even though I spelled it out a few time where and why and how this doctrine came about, if you would care about your soul salvation instead of this Christian ideology where everyone that dies automatically goes to Heaven, you would fall on your knees asking God of the Bible to have Jesus save you!
It is THAT important, .. the souls of Christian is on the line here.

This is all I have, whatever is written is where I stand, and stay. If Christian History as we can see it today through the Internet with pictures and videos and historical accounts can't steer you away from this evil doctrine, then nothing will.
I just pray you will not respond as my once friend Larry Wessels did!


Arius

Well Arius, you tell me I am saying the right things and backing them up with scripture yet you do not want to believe. You theology is on the order of non=trinitarian.  You said God's son was named WORD?  God and his son Word.

Look to John 1:1.."In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

If as you say, God's son is WORD then "the WORD (the Son) was with GOD and the WORD (His son) was GOD.

Either way, Jesus Christ, the son of GOD was the 1st and the Last, was there when the first foundation of His church was laid, etc.   Jesus is GOD and GOD is Jesus.

OK. I don't think I can help you anymore..

Blade
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Arius on March 20, 2019, 03:20:02 pm

Look, even you admit that this Trinity-gods doctrine is not Biblical, and even though I spelled it out a few time where and why and how this doctrine came about, if you would care about your soul salvation instead of this Christian ideology where everyone that dies automatically goes to Heaven, you would fall on your knees asking God of the Bible to have Jesus save you!
It is THAT important, .. the souls of Christian is on the line here.

This is all I have, whatever is written is where I stand, and stay. If Christian History as we can see it today through the Internet with pictures and videos and historical accounts can't steer you away from this evil doctrine, then nothing will.
I just pray you will not respond as my once friend Larry Wessels did!


Arius

Well Arius, you tell me I am saying the right things and backing them up with scripture yet you do not want to believe. You theology is on the order of non=trinitarian.  You said God's son was named WORD?  God and his son Word.

Look to John 1:1.."In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

If as you say, God's son is WORD then "the WORD (the Son) was with GOD and the WORD (His son) was GOD.

Either way, Jesus Christ, the son of GOD was the 1st and the Last, was there when the first foundation of His church was laid, etc.   Jesus is GOD and GOD is Jesus.

Yes sir, he was there with God his Father, as Gods son Word, but not God. He was "with God", why would John 1 exist if the Word was God after he was created/begotten? That would be like I pointed out dozens of times:
In the beginning was God, the God was with God, and the God was God. What's the point in saying this? If the Word was God, then God was God, .. end of discussion.

Quote
OK. I don't think I can help you anymore..

Blade

You mean: "You don't think you can sway me anymore" ..
Just remember that it is you who is trying to convince me of a non-Biblical man-made doctrine, and it is I who keeps bringing you back to Scriptures.

God bless you Blade!


Your friend always, till that Last Trumpet sounds, and I pray I will be there to hear the billions of Christians as they defend, and try to convince Jesus Christ of the Trinity Doctrine!? What I really want to see is if they truly were blinded by it, or they just loved the idea behind it, .. the idea that God died by the hand of the Romans, and He had to be resurrected, and raised back up to His original God position: "Above all principalities and Powers"?

I will say; that will be very interesting!



Arius
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: patrick jane on June 12, 2019, 04:38:25 am

Look, even you admit that this Trinity-gods doctrine is not Biblical, and even though I spelled it out a few time where and why and how this doctrine came about, if you would care about your soul salvation instead of this Christian ideology where everyone that dies automatically goes to Heaven, you would fall on your knees asking God of the Bible to have Jesus save you!
It is THAT important, .. the souls of Christian is on the line here.

This is all I have, whatever is written is where I stand, and stay. If Christian History as we can see it today through the Internet with pictures and videos and historical accounts can't steer you away from this evil doctrine, then nothing will.
I just pray you will not respond as my once friend Larry Wessels did!


Arius

Well Arius, you tell me I am saying the right things and backing them up with scripture yet you do not want to believe. You theology is on the order of non=trinitarian.  You said God's son was named WORD?  God and his son Word.

Look to John 1:1.."In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

If as you say, God's son is WORD then "the WORD (the Son) was with GOD and the WORD (His son) was GOD.

Either way, Jesus Christ, the son of GOD was the 1st and the Last, was there when the first foundation of His church was laid, etc.   Jesus is GOD and GOD is Jesus.

Yes sir, he was there with God his Father, as Gods son Word, but not God. He was "with God", why would John 1 exist if the Word was God after he was created/begotten? That would be like I pointed out dozens of times:
In the beginning was God, the God was with God, and the God was God. What's the point in saying this? If the Word was God, then God was God, .. end of discussion.

Quote
OK. I don't think I can help you anymore..

Blade

You mean: "You don't think you can sway me anymore" ..
Just remember that it is you who is trying to convince me of a non-Biblical man-made doctrine, and it is I who keeps bringing you back to Scriptures.

God bless you Blade!


Your friend always, till that Last Trumpet sounds, and I pray I will be there to hear the billions of Christians as they defend, and try to convince Jesus Christ of the Trinity Doctrine!? What I really want to see is if they truly were blinded by it, or they just loved the idea behind it, .. the idea that God died by the hand of the Romans, and He had to be resurrected, and raised back up to His original God position: "Above all principalities and Powers"?

I will say; that will be very interesting!



Arius
Where did you go? What happened?
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: patrick jane on June 29, 2019, 11:14:01 am
Good thread.
Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Ted T. on June 29, 2019, 07:24:54 pm
*We know that at Seith's birth Adam was 130 years old.(2)

*After the murder of Abel by Cain, we find the Population of the world was very significant as there were people throughout the region including east of the Euphrates River (NOD)

I asked a mathematician friend about this:

  I am bothered not knowing how to work out exponent growth patterns. To use a simple population  pattern, no twins, no deaths, let’s consider one birth a year by one person for 13 years when the oldest child also starts having children. All children start having children at 13 years old and keep having children every year. How many people are there in 125 years? How is this for something new?

He answered:
Yeehaw. Branching processes.
Let’s do the simplest case we can first, which we can arrive at because in the case you have here, everything is deterministic and happens in 13 year increments, so you can take one generation to be 13 years and work only in terms of generations. In generation 0, there is 1 person. Each person in the previous generation produced 13 people in the next generation, plus themselves, so, notating the number of people in generation i as N_i,

N_i = 14 * N_{i-1}

with N_0 = 1, the solution to this is N_i = 14^i.

125 years is between 9 and 10 generations, so there are between 20 billion and 289 billion people in this model.

The general program is to set up a recurrence for N_i in terms of earlier values of N, and set an initial condition (N_0). Then you are into the theory of difference equations, which is a well studied area of mathematics that just happens to be rarely taught. You also don’t have to get exact solutions via difference equations. You can just plug in numbers and work your way through:

i  |  N_i
————
0 |  1
1 | 14
2 | 196
3 | 2744
4 | 38416
5 | 537824
6 | 7529536
7 | 105413504

This is only possible if your expression for N_i only depends on the past, not the future. If it depends on the future as well, then you actually need the difference equations. It doesn’t usually depend on the future, but that problem does show up when calculating with boundary values in physics problems (temperature is X at this end, Y at that end, calculate what it is in the middle).


Title: Re: How long were Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Bladerunner on June 29, 2019, 08:08:52 pm
*We know that at Seith's birth Adam was 130 years old.(2)

*After the murder of Abel by Cain, we find the Population of the world was very significant as there were people throughout the region including east of the Euphrates River (NOD)


I asked a mathematician friend about this:

  I am bothered not knowing how to work out exponent growth patterns. To use a simple population  pattern, no twins, no deaths, let’s consider one birth a year by one person for 13 years when the oldest child also starts having children. All children start having children at 13 years old and keep having children every year. How many people are there in 125 years? How is this for something new?

He answered:
Yeehaw. Branching processes.
Let’s do the simplest case we can first, which we can arrive at because in the case you have here, everything is deterministic and happens in 13 year increments, so you can take one generation to be 13 years and work only in terms of generations. In generation 0, there is 1 person. Each person in the previous generation produced 13 people in the next generation, plus themselves, so, notating the number of people in generation i as N_i,

N_i = 14 * N_{i-1}

with N_0 = 1, the solution to this is N_i = 14^i.

125 years is between 9 and 10 generations, so there are between 20 billion and 289 billion people in this model.

The general program is to set up a recurrence for N_i in terms of earlier values of N, and set an initial condition (N_0). Then you are into the theory of difference equations, which is a well studied area of mathematics that just happens to be rarely taught. You also don’t have to get exact solutions via difference equations. You can just plug in numbers and work your way through:

i  |  N_i
————
0 |  1
1 | 14
2 | 196
3 | 2744
4 | 38416
5 | 537824
6 | 7529536
7 | 105413504

This is only possible if your expression for N_i only depends on the past, not the future. If it depends on the future as well, then you actually need the difference equations. It doesn’t usually depend on the future, but that problem does show up when calculating with boundary values in physics problems (temperature is X at this end, Y at that end, calculate what it is in the middle).

I did not speculate on the exact number of people that were in the world at that time. You used a generation of 13 years. God had told us the generation is 39-40 years plus twenty. Therefore I do believe a generation of child birth would be 17-20 years old. 20 Billion is just too much.... It might have been around 150-300 million at that time. That is my supposition.

Blade
Title: Re: How long was Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Ted T. on July 02, 2019, 03:30:34 pm
Quote
Satan was a Murderer from the Beginning.  This is what Jesus tells us in John 8:14.
No, in John 8:44 he calls the devil a murderer, not Satan. Also the doctrine of original sin fails of the presumption of innocence.

This is kind of a derail but I will answer. The doctrine of original sin stands on the same principle as Levy tithing while still in Abraham's loins. We sinned while still in Adam's loins.
Big, that is HUGE, difference between tithing and creating us evil by means of making us human in Adam's line, a consummate blasphemy!
Title: Re: How long was Adam and Eve in Eden
Post by: Bladerunner on July 03, 2019, 08:16:16 pm
Quote
Satan was a Murderer from the Beginning.  This is what Jesus tells us in John 8:14.
No, in John 8:44 he calls the devil a murderer, not Satan. Also the doctrine of original sin fails of the presumption of innocence.

This is kind of a derail but I will answer. The doctrine of original sin stands on the same principle as Levy tithing while still in Abraham's loins. We sinned while still in Adam's loins.
Big, that is HUGE, difference between tithing and creating us evil by means of making us human in Adam's line, a consummate blasphemy!

Why is this HUGE?   Adam had already fallen by the time Cain and Abel were born ad YES, they were born into sin. So were you and I.

Blade