patrick jane forums

Christian Theology with DOUG and TED T. => Christian Threads => Topic started by: Scotty on August 02, 2018, 09:25:40 am

Title: Bible Versions, Interpretations and Word Changes
Post by: Scotty on August 02, 2018, 09:25:40 am: (https://3169.createaforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-wgS5D647Hm8%2FVTikcN23dLI%2FAAAAAAAADKA%2F9TPA8G8XGzg%2Fs1600%2FBible%252BTranslations.jpg&hash=9ba76b943a2a2615fc7ff35764464915498ccfa4)

John 3:16 is the most well known verse there is and yet many misinterpret it. Whatever shall or should we believe?

NIV - John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him [shall] not perish but have eternal life."

KJV- John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him [should] not perish but have everlasting life."
Title: Re: Should/Shall
Post by: patrick jane on August 02, 2018, 11:00:15 am: Quote from: Scotty on August 02, 2018, 09:25:40 am
John 3:16 is the most well known verse there is and yet many misinterpret it. Whatever shall or should we believe?

NIV - John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him [shall] not perish but have eternal life."

KJV- John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him [should] not perish but have everlasting life."
Personally, I'm a King James Bible reader and the NIV has countless word errors and changes. But I think I like the NIV for John 3:16. Thank you Chaplain Scotty !!!
Title: Re: Bible Versions, Interpretations and Word Changes
Post by: Scotty on August 04, 2018, 08:37:43 am: I do believe Romans 8:38-39 That nothing shall separate us.

I use KJV as well which interrupts it as "should" However we know that a true "born again" child of God is secure in His righteous right hand It is the original LIFELOCK :]
Title: Re: Bible Versions, Interpretations and Word Changes
Post by: guest2 on August 07, 2018, 03:22:10 am: I reckon so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrR3dyBhKEc
Title: Re: Bible Versions, Interpretations and Word Changes
Post by: Billy Evmur on August 15, 2018, 05:35:17 am: What makes the difference between modern translators and the KJV is the theology of the translators.

The sets of translators had two different [sometimes opposite] theological understanding, consequently they interpreted according to these theological stances

The KJV translators were Puritan and Calvinist, the moderns are Arminians, you see the arguments in the forums how WIDE the divide is in the opinion and outlook.

To get the best of the KJV you have to understand 17th century usage of the English language...should does not mean mebbe, it is past perfect of shall, would is past perfect of will etc
Title: Re: Bible Versions, Interpretations and Word Changes
Post by: Sasha on August 15, 2018, 09:06:02 am: Quote from: Billy Evmur on August 15, 2018, 05:35:17 am
What makes the difference between modern translators and the KJV is the theology of the translators.

The sets of translators had two different [sometimes opposite] theological understanding, consequently they interpreted according to these theological stances

The KJV translators were Puritan and Calvinist, the moderns are Arminians, you see the arguments in the forums how WIDE the divide is in the opinion and outlook.

To get the best of the KJV you have to understand 17th century usage of the English language...should does not mean mebbe, it is past perfect of shall, would is past perfect of will etc

This could explain why I have to study using interlinear aids and 30+ translations when seriously pondering things. To be sincere, I am neither Calvinist (Scripture forces me to conform otherwise) nor Armenian (Again, scripture shows God actively pursuing all humanity till the final alter call), so I’m forced to search out matters apart from either of those rival camps.

John 13:13 You call me Teacher and Lord, and you are right, for so I am

Matthew 23:8 "But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers.

1 Corinthians 1:12 What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.”

13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so no one can say that you were baptized in my name. 16 (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.) 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

Matthew 15:9 They worship Me in vain; they teach as doctrine the precepts of men.’”

The list of scriptures go on, but my point is Calvin and Arminius we’re people.

Acts 11:26 has us to be named of Christ’s namesake, if we name ourselves, but why people side with Larry, Moe or Curly always blows my mind. God walked among us and people try to pierce the veil of mystery, not with the red letters, but with fallible man’s opinions.

People who had fractured by following men and building on other men’s words and opinions literally rejected God to His Face.

A big part of me wishes all the big labels would be flushed down the spiritual gnat and camel soup disposal, and people would simply give a rats patoot what each person perceives.

Theological bricks in a conformity wall? No way. But bricks of Jesus, mortared together by Jesus’ Love and selflessness, while retaining our unique ability to voice different perspectives... well, absolutely, sign me up!

Spoiler (hover to show)
https://youtu.be/xzkiJJ_NkD0
Title: Re: Bible Versions, Interpretations and Word Changes
Post by: patrick jane on September 14, 2018, 05:32:00 am: Fifteen Myths about Bible Translation

https://danielbwallace.com/2012/10/08/fifteen-myths-about-bible-translation/

ON 8 OCTOBER 2012 BY DANIEL B. WALLACEIN BIBLE TRANSLATION

Perhaps the number one myth about Bible translation is that a word-for-word translation is the best kind. Anyone who is conversant in more than one language recognizes that a word-for-word translation is simply not possible if one is going to communicate in an understandable way in the receptor language. Yet, ironically, even some biblical scholars who should know better continue to tout word-for-word translations as though they were the best. Perhaps the most word-for-word translation of the Bible in English is Wycliffe’s, done in the 1380s. Although translated from the Latin Vulgate, it was a slavishly literal translation to that text. And precisely because of this, it was hardly English.
Similar to the first point is that a literal translation is the best version. In fact, this is sometimes just a spin on the first notion. For example, the Greek New Testament has about 138,000–140,000 words, depending on which edition one is using. But no English translation has this few. Here are some examples:
RSV 173,293

NIV 175,037

ESV 175,599

NIV 2011 176,122

TNIV 176,267

NRSV 176,417

REB 176,705

NKJV 177,980

NET 178,929

RV 179,873

ASV 180,056

KJV 180,565

NASB 95 182,446

NASB 184,062

NLT, 2nd ed 186,596

TEV 192,784

It’s no surprise that the TEV and NLT have the most words, since these are both paraphrases. But the translations perceived to be more literal are often near the bottom of this list (that is, farther away from the Greek NT word-count). These include the KJV (#12), ASV (#11), NASB (#14), NASB 95 (#13), and RV (#10). Indeed, when the RV came out (1881), one of its stated goals was to be quite literal and the translators were consciously trying to be much more literal than the KJV.

Some translations of the New Testament into other languages:

Modern Hebrew NT 111,154

Vulgate 125,720

Italian La Sacra Bibbia 163,870

Luther 169,536

French Novelle Version2 184,449

La Sainte Bible (Geneve) 185,859

3. The King James Version is a literal translation. The preface to the KJV actually claims otherwise. For example, they explicitly said that they did not translate the same word in the original the same way in the English but did attempt to capture the sense of the original each time: “An other thing we thinke good to admonish thee of (gentle Reader) that wee have not tyed our selves to an uniformitie of phrasing, or to an identitie of words, as some peradventure would wish that we had done, because they observe, that some learned men some where, have beene as exact as they could that way.

Truly, that we might not varie from the sense of that which we had translated before, if the word signified the same thing in both places (for there bee some wordes that bee not of the same sense every where) we were especially carefull, and made a conscience, according to our duetie.”

4. The King James Version is perfect. This myth continues to be promoted today, yet even the translators of the KJV were not sure on hundreds of occasions which rendering was best, allowing the reader to decide for himself. Again, the preface notes: “Therfore as S. Augustine saith, that varietie of Translations is profitable for the finding out of the sense of the Scriptures: so diversitie of signification and sense in the margine, where the text is not so cleare, must needes doe good, yea is necessary, as we are perswaded… They that are wise, had rather have their judgements at libertie in differences of readings, then to be captivated to one, when it may be the other.”

The original KJV had approximately 8000 marginal notes, though these have been stripped out in modern printings of the Authorized Version. Further, some of the typos and blatant errors of the 1611 KJV have continued to remain in the text after multiple corrections and spelling updates (weighing in at more than 100,000 changes) through the 1769 edition. For example, in Matthew 23.24 the KJV says, “Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat and swallow a camel.”

The Greek means “strain out a gnat.” Or the wording of Hebrews 4.8, which says, “For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.” Instead of ‘Jesus,’ Joshua is meant. It’s the same word in Greek, but the reader of the text will hardly think of Joshua when he or she sees ‘Jesus’ here since ‘Joshua’ is found everywhere in the OT.

5. The King James Version was hard to understand when it was first published. Again, the preface: “But we desire that the Scripture may speake like it selfe, as in the language of Canaan, that it may bee understood even of the very vulgar.” The reality is that the KJV was intended to be easily understood, yet today this 400-year-old version is difficult to comprehend in all too many passages.

6. There has never been an authorized revision of the KJV. There were three overhauls of the KJV up through 1769, involving more than 100,000 changes (the vast majority of which merely spelling updates). The KJV that is used today is almost always the 1769 revision. And the Revised Version of 1885 was an authorized revision of the KJV. It used a different Greek text than the KJV New Testament had done.

7. The Apocrypha are books found only in Roman Catholic Bibles. Although the Apocrypha—or what Catholics call the Deutero-canonical books—are an intrinsic part of Roman Catholic translations of scripture, a number of Protestant Bibles also include them. Even the King James Bible, a distinctly Protestant version, included the Apocrypha in every printing until the middle of the nineteenth century. To be sure, the apocryphal books were placed at the end of the Old Testament, to set them apart (unlike in Roman Catholic Bibles), but they were nevertheless included.

8. Homosexuals influenced the translation of the NIV. It is true that a woman who later admitted to being a lesbian was a style-editor of the NIV originally, but according to Dr. Ken Barker, one-time editor of the NIV, she had zero say on the content of the NIV.

9. No translation can claim to be the word of God except the King James Bible. It may seem as though we are beating a dead horse, but the KJV-Only crowd is persistent and continues to exercise an inordinate role in some circles. In the preface to the KJV, the translators noted that the king’s speech is still the king’s speech even when translated into other languages. Further, even poor translations of the Bible deserved to be called the word of God according to the preface to the KJV. And yet, in all particulars, only the original Greek and Hebrew text can be regarded as the word of God. Something is always lost in translation. Always.

10. Modern translations have removed words and verses from the Bible. Most biblical scholars—both conservative and liberal—would say instead that the KJV added words and verses, rather than that the modern ones have removed such. And this is in part because the oldest and most reliable manuscripts lack the extra verses that are found in the KJV.

11. Essential doctrines are in jeopardy in modern translations. Actually, no doctrine essential for salvation is affected by translations, modern or ancient—unless done by a particular cult for its own purposes. For example, those Englishmen who signed the Westminster Confession of Faith in the seventeenth century were using the KJV, yet it is still a normative doctrinal statement that millions of Protestants sign today even though they use modern translations.

12. “Young woman” in the RSV’s translation of Isaiah 7.14 was due to liberal bias. Actually, ‘young woman’ is the most accurate translation of the Hebrew word ‘almah. Although this created quite a stir in 1952 when the RSV was published, even the NET Bible, done by evangelicals, has ‘young woman’ here. The TEV, REB, and NJB also have ‘young woman’ here. And it is a marginal reading found in the NIV 2011, TNIV, and NLT. The NRSV has a marginal note that indicates that the Greek translation of Isaiah 7.14 has ‘virgin’ here.

13. Gender-inclusive translations are driven by a social agenda. In some instances, this may be the case. But not in all. The NIV 2011, for example, strives to be an accurate translation that is understandable by today’s English speaker. And the translators note that the English language is changing. In reality, the older gender-exclusive translations may miscommunicate the meaning of the Bible in today’s world if readers understand the words ‘men,’ ‘brothers,’ and the like in numerous passages to be restricted to the male gender. Translations must keep up with the evolution of the receptor language. For example, the RSV (1952) reads in Psalm 50.9, “I will accept no bull from your house.” In today’s English, that means something quite different from what the translators intended! The NRSV accordingly and appropriately renders the verse, “I will not accept a bull from your house.”

One of the great challenges in English translations of the Bible today is to avoid language that can become fodder for bathroom humor. Or, as one of the translators of the ESV once mentioned, a major challenge is to remove the ‘snicker factor.’

14. Red-letter editions of the Bible highlight the exact words of Jesus. Scholars are not sure of the exact words of Jesus. Ancient historians were concerned to get the gist of what someone said, but not necessarily the exact wording. A comparison of parallel passages in the Synoptic Gospels reveals that the evangelists didn’t always record Jesus’ words exactly the same way. The terms ipsissima verba and ipsissima vox are used to distinguish the kinds of dominical sayings we have in the Gospels. The former means ‘the very words,’ and the latter means ‘the very voice.’

That is, the exact words or the essential thought. There have been attempts to harmonize these accounts, but they are highly motivated by a theological agenda which clouds one’s judgment and skews the facts. In truth, though red-letter editions of the Bible may give comfort to believers that they have the very words of Jesus in every instance, this is a false comfort.

15. Chapter and verse numbers are inspired. These were added centuries later. Chapter numbers were added by Stephen Langton, the Archbishop of Canterbury, in the early 13th century. Verse numbers were not added until 1551. Robert Estienne (a.k.a. Stephanus), a Parisian printer, added verse numbers to the fourth edition of his Greek New Testament.

The pocket-sized two-volume work (which can be viewed at www.csntm.org) has three parallel columns, one in Greek and two in Latin (one Erasmus’s Latin text, the other Jerome’s). To facilitate ease of comparison, Stephanus added the verse numbers. Although most of the breaks seem natural enough, quite a few are bizarre. Neither chapter numbers nor verse numbers are inspired.

Theology Forums : https://theologyforums.com/index.php
Youtube : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpzjN3dF-_PnAc81SQVjqhg?view_as=subscriber
Pinterest : https://www.pinterest.com/patrickjane3169/
Google : https://plus.google.com/u/0/113527239869543729835
Linkedin : https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrick-jane-833769164/
Twitter : https://twitter.com/patrickjane3169
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100007669219364+
Flat Earth Forums : https://3169.createaforum.com/index.php
Bitchute : https://www.bitchute.com/channel/xUZJpNWUz2T4/

Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection, the gospel of our salvation, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -
Title: Re: Bible Versions, Interpretations and Word Changes
Post by: patrick jane on September 15, 2018, 08:55:07 pm: Why the King James Bible

The teaching of Bible versions is one of the most misunderstood doctrines. Learn the necessary steps to understanding how we got our Bible.

Find the outline here :
http://graceambassadors.com/audio/why-the-king-james-bible

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMxsH9QPD7Q

Why the King James Bible Pt 2

The Bible versions issues centers on the doctrine of preservation. Learn what God says about preserving his word and why unity in the body of Christ requires one bible.

Find the outline here : http://graceambassadors.com/bible/why-the-king-james-bible-part-2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KINOx03RTcQ

Theology Forums : https://theologyforums.com/index.php
Youtube : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpzjN3dF-_PnAc81SQVjqhg?view_as=subscriber
Pinterest : https://www.pinterest.com/patrickjane3169/
Google : https://plus.google.com/u/0/113527239869543729835
Linkedin : https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrick-jane-833769164/
Twitter : https://twitter.com/patrickjane3169
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100007669219364+
Flat Earth Forums : https://3169.createaforum.com/index.php
Bitchute : https://www.bitchute.com/channel/xUZJpNWUz2T4/

Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection, the gospel of our salvation, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -
Title: Re: Bible Versions, Interpretations and Word Changes
Post by: guest8 on October 29, 2018, 10:55:33 pm: Quote from: patrick jane on September 15, 2018, 08:55:07 pm
Why the King James Bible

The teaching of Bible versions is one of the most misunderstood doctrines. Learn the necessary steps to understanding how we got our Bible.

Find the outline here :
http://graceambassadors.com/audio/why-the-king-james-bible

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMxsH9QPD7Q

Why the King James Bible Pt 2

The Bible versions issues centers on the doctrine of preservation. Learn what God says about preserving his word and why unity in the body of Christ requires one bible.

Find the outline here : http://graceambassadors.com/bible/why-the-king-james-bible-part-2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KINOx03RTcQ

Theology Forums : https://theologyforums.com/index.php
Youtube : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpzjN3dF-_PnAc81SQVjqhg?view_as=subscriber
Pinterest : https://www.pinterest.com/patrickjane3169/
Google : https://plus.google.com/u/0/113527239869543729835
Linkedin : https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrick-jane-833769164/
Twitter : https://twitter.com/patrickjane3169
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100007669219364+
Flat Earth Forums : https://3169.createaforum.com/index.php
Bitchute : https://www.bitchute.com/channel/xUZJpNWUz2T4/

Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection, the gospel of our salvation, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -

There are many books out there telling WHY the King James version
is the only book to follow. It is simple. All but one (the King James Version) comes from the Alexander codecies. The Codecies are the oldest and most complete manuscripts there is today. However, Alexander was the home of the Gnostics and many scriptures were taken away and many were added at a later time. Westcott and Hort uses the bibles written from these codecies and we all know what they did.

With so many Bibles out there, how do you tell if your Bible is telling you the Word of GOD!

By comparison. Yes, it is a slow method but one that is telling!.

Satan's affect on the Bible is to remove specific words to create doubt, to change our minds and to remove Jesus Christ and His Gospel from sight. How does He do this? Simple, change a word here and there and soon your telling a story without Jesus Christ which many today believe. Here are a few of them that will get you started? I will compare the KJV with the worst of them all yet, is use the most around the world. The NIV

The Deity of Christ.

1 Tm 3:16(KJV)..."And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

Above God ( is Manifest in the FLESH) Jesus Christ--is GOD!

1 Tim 3:16 (NIV).."Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great: He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit,[fn] was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory."

The the example above "HE (who is HE)appeared in Flesh". He is not GOD!

Notice also the differences in "vindicated BY the Spirit" is a whole world of difference than being "Justified in the SPirit"

Lets do another:John 9:35

(KJV).."Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?"

Jesus is the Son of GOD.

(NIV).."Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and when he found him, he said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?”

Jesus is the Son of Man, not a GOD!

Ok, one more in a different category:(Salvation by Works):1 John 1:7

(KJV).."As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:"

Growing by the Word of God is something true Christians doe every day.

(NIV).."Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation,"

**What is Spiritual Milk? But more importantly...."by it you may grow up in your salvation" Salvation BY WORKS

*******OK...one MORE...One that is obsure enough not to be noticed, yet it is there ! Gen 6:8

(KJV).."But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD."

When we receive God's GRACE, we receive Salvation!

(NIV).."But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD."

When we receive God's FAVOR, What do we receive, certainly NOT Salvation!?

There are many, many more that could laid out but for lack of space I do not.

If you are reading a different version than the (KJV), then it is advisable to get a AP like Bible gate that will split the screen with two Bibles of the same scripture. Check out the differences and if your version leaves out 'Jesus Christ as God', let Satan have it back and get the real one.

Of, course if you do not believe that Jesus is GOD or that by simply believing in His Gospel, One will receive Salvation;
and you see no reason to change because of a few word changes, then Please continue on the course you have set by and for yourself.

Blade
Title: Re: Bible Versions, Interpretations and Word Changes
Post by: patrick jane on January 01, 2019, 06:47:24 pm: Which Bible Translation Should We Read?

There are so many different translations out in the world. Which one is the most accurate? It is OK to read several or should we be reading only one?

15 minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7qSUSvPRPw&index=11&t=0s&list=WL

PayPal Donations : https://paypal.me/ThankYou3169
Patreon : https://www.patreon.com/patrick_jane3169
Flat Earth Forums : https://3169.createaforum.com/index.php?action=forum
Theology Forums : https://theologyforums.com/index.php
Youtube : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpzjN3dF-_PnAc81SQVjqhg?view_as=subscriber
Pinterest : https://www.pinterest.com/patrickjane3169/
Google : https://plus.google.com/u/0/113527239869543729835
Linkedin : https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrick-jane-833769164/
Twitter : https://twitter.com/patrickjane3169
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100007669219364+
Title: Re: Bible Versions, Interpretations and Word Changes
Post by: guest8 on January 02, 2019, 08:49:45 pm: Quote from: patrick jane on January 01, 2019, 06:47:24 pm
Which Bible Translation Should We Read?

There are so many different translations out in the world. Which one is the most accurate? It is OK to read several or should we be reading only one?

15 minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7qSUSvPRPw&index=11&t=0s&list=WL

PayPal Donations : https://paypal.me/ThankYou3169
Patreon : https://www.patreon.com/patrick_jane3169
Flat Earth Forums : https://3169.createaforum.com/index.php?action=forum
Theology Forums : https://theologyforums.com/index.php
Youtube : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpzjN3dF-_PnAc81SQVjqhg?view_as=subscriber
Pinterest : https://www.pinterest.com/patrickjane3169/
Google : https://plus.google.com/u/0/113527239869543729835
Linkedin : https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrick-jane-833769164/
Twitter : https://twitter.com/patrickjane3169
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100007669219364+

In the above video, the information given was correct but it did not go far enough! Instead of presenting other evidence to the reason WHY I feel the KJV is the WORD of GOD and the others are simply copies of a Bad book.

This video is 17 minutes long and will enlighten you to the reason the God preserved His WORD in the KJV. If you have another version, I would recommend a good such as "Strong's concordance" to test your Bible verses against the Bible verses of King James Version. If you would like to continue a discussion about the King James Bible vs other versions, simply reply using the "QUOTE" in the upper right corner of this post.

Here is the link for the AV Publications. They can give you more information and more verses that are totally different from the King James. http://www.avpublications.com/avnew/home.html

ENJOY.

Blade

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5HY22JBzDU
Title: Re: Bible Versions, Interpretations and Word Changes
Post by: patrick jane on January 02, 2019, 08:58:39 pm: Quote from: Bladerunner on January 02, 2019, 08:49:45 pm
Quote from: patrick jane on January 01, 2019, 06:47:24 pm
Which Bible Translation Should We Read?

There are so many different translations out in the world. Which one is the most accurate? It is OK to read several or should we be reading only one?

15 minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7qSUSvPRPw&index=11&t=0s&list=WL

PayPal Donations : https://paypal.me/ThankYou3169
Patreon : https://www.patreon.com/patrick_jane3169
Flat Earth Forums : https://3169.createaforum.com/index.php?action=forum
Theology Forums : https://theologyforums.com/index.php
Youtube : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpzjN3dF-_PnAc81SQVjqhg?view_as=subscriber
Pinterest : https://www.pinterest.com/patrickjane3169/
Google : https://plus.google.com/u/0/113527239869543729835
Linkedin : https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrick-jane-833769164/
Twitter : https://twitter.com/patrickjane3169
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100007669219364+

In the above video, the information given was correct but it did not go far enough! Instead of presenting other evidence to the reason WHY I feel the KJV is the WORD of GOD and the others are simply copies of a Bad book.

This video is 17 minutes long and will enlighten you to the reason the God preserved His WORD in the KJV. If you have another version, I would recommend a good such as "Strong's concordance" to test your Bible verses against the Bible verses of King James Version. If you would like to continue a discussion about the King James Bible vs other versions, simply reply using the "QUOTE" in the upper right corner of this post.

Here is the link for the AV Publications. They can give you more information and more verses that are totally different from the King James. http://www.avpublications.com/avnew/home.html

ENJOY.

Blade

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5HY22JBzDU
I will watch this video, thank you. I use only the KJV now since 2012. Also when I post scripture it is always King James 1900
Title: Re: Bible Versions, Interpretations and Word Changes
Post by: guest8 on January 02, 2019, 10:00:59 pm: Quote from: patrick jane on January 02, 2019, 08:58:39 pm
Quote from: Bladerunner on January 02, 2019, 08:49:45 pm
Quote from: patrick jane on January 01, 2019, 06:47:24 pm
Which Bible Translation Should We Read?

There are so many different translations out in the world. Which one is the most accurate? It is OK to read several or should we be reading only one?

15 minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7qSUSvPRPw&index=11&t=0s&list=WL

PayPal Donations : https://paypal.me/ThankYou3169
Patreon : https://www.patreon.com/patrick_jane3169
Flat Earth Forums : https://3169.createaforum.com/index.php?action=forum
Theology Forums : https://theologyforums.com/index.php
Youtube : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpzjN3dF-_PnAc81SQVjqhg?view_as=subscriber
Pinterest : https://www.pinterest.com/patrickjane3169/
Google : https://plus.google.com/u/0/113527239869543729835
Linkedin : https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrick-jane-833769164/
Twitter : https://twitter.com/patrickjane3169
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100007669219364+

In the above video, the information given was correct but it did not go far enough! Instead of presenting other evidence to the reason WHY I feel the KJV is the WORD of GOD and the others are simply copies of a Bad book.

This video is 17 minutes long and will enlighten you to the reason the God preserved His WORD in the KJV. If you have another version, I would recommend a good such as "Strong's concordance" to test your Bible verses against the Bible verses of King James Version. If you would like to continue a discussion about the King James Bible vs other versions, simply reply using the "QUOTE" in the upper right corner of this post.

Here is the link for the AV Publications. They can give you more information and more verses that are totally different from the King James. http://www.avpublications.com/avnew/home.html

ENJOY.

Blade

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5HY22JBzDU
I will watch this video, thank you. I use only the KJV now since 2012. Also when I post scripture it is always King James 1900

I urge everyone to check out the copyright date of your Bible vs the Printing date.. WHY? The original King James Bible 1611 had no such copyright. How can one copyright the WORD of GOD?

The Modern versions including the King James Version are copyrighted. However, Unlike the other versions, the copyright of the King James version is strictly for the notes, textual comments, maps, etc. ONLY.

To apply for a copyright, one has to only change 10-15% of the Bible. In most other version this change also includes changing of God's WORD to include, deleting , adding, etc. words or in some cases several verses. (i.e. last 12 verses of Mark 16:*(9-20).. )

What is amazing, my KJV study Bible includes a note that these verses may have been added at a later date. To be sure, they were there to start with but the Gnostics at Alexandria remove them. Even though this Study Bible (KJV) has printed those verses as the last 12 verses of Mark 16, It still has that NOTE. It would seem that Satan has taken another step to remove the KJV from everybody's wishlist.

While I have several other Bibles, (KJV) all, they are of earlier printings and do not have the notes, maps, etc. and Yes, they do have the missing verses of Mark without comment. NO, They have no copyrights.

Satan it seems, will stop at nothing to thwart God's WORD or Plan.

Blade
Title: Re: Bible Versions, Interpretations and Word Changes
Post by: patrick jane on February 07, 2019, 08:34:33 am: Why the King James Bible

The teaching of Bible versions is one of the most misunderstood doctrines. Learn the necessary steps to understanding how we got our Bible.

Find the outline here : http://graceambassadors.com/audio/why-the-king-james-bible

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMxsH9QPD7Q&t=0s&list=WL&index=16

PayPal Donations : https://paypal.me/ThankYou3169
Patreon : https://www.patreon.com/patrick_jane3169
Flat Earth Forums : https://3169.createaforum.com/index.php?action=forum
Theology Forums : https://theologyforums.com/index.php
Youtube : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpzjN3dF-_PnAc81SQVjqhg?view_as=subscriber
Pinterest : https://www.pinterest.com/patrickjane3169/
Google : https://plus.google.com/u/0/113527239869543729835
Linkedin : https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrick-jane-833769164/
Twitter : https://twitter.com/patrickjane3169
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100007669219364+
Title: Re: Bible Versions, Interpretations and Word Changes
Post by: guest8 on February 08, 2019, 01:16:18 am: Quote from: patrick jane on February 07, 2019, 08:34:33 am
Why the King James Bible

The teaching of Bible versions is one of the most misunderstood doctrines. Learn the necessary steps to understanding how we got our Bible.

Find the outline here : http://graceambassadors.com/audio/why-the-king-james-bible

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMxsH9QPD7Q&t=0s&list=WL&index=16

PayPal Donations : https://paypal.me/ThankYou3169
Patreon : https://www.patreon.com/patrick_jane3169
Flat Earth Forums : https://3169.createaforum.com/index.php?action=forum
Theology Forums : https://theologyforums.com/index.php
Youtube : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpzjN3dF-_PnAc81SQVjqhg?view_as=subscriber
Pinterest : https://www.pinterest.com/patrickjane3169/
Google : https://plus.google.com/u/0/113527239869543729835
Linkedin : https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrick-jane-833769164/
Twitter : https://twitter.com/patrickjane3169
Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100007669219364+

Unfortunately in this video, the speaker is trying to prove that GOD spoke the words of the Bible.... He said as much that HE would not teach the class "how we got our KJV Bible.

There are several out there that are a little better about getting the HOW WE GOT the KJV BIble and I think knowing this information will refutes all other versions.

Blade
Title: Re: Bible Versions, Interpretations and Word Changes
Post by: guest8 on February 08, 2019, 01:23:30 am: The following video is around 2.5 hours long However, If you want to hear a scholarly approach to "How We Got our Bible", then don't pass this video up.It will answer most of your questions and give a basis for each of them. The presentation is by Chuck Missler, an active Bible scholar for some 40-50 years prior to His demise in 2017.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZsZLDWWZMs

Blade
Title: Re: Bible Versions, Interpretations and Word Changes
Post by: patrick jane on August 04, 2020, 01:32:02 pm: yep
Title: Re: Bible Versions, Interpretations and Word Changes
Post by: patrick jane on September 21, 2020, 03:49:04 pm: Quote from: patrick jane on August 04, 2020, 01:32:02 pm
yep
indeed
Title: Re: Bible Versions, Interpretations and Word Changes
Post by: patrick jane on October 11, 2020, 10:08:56 am: Quote from: patrick jane on September 21, 2020, 03:49:04 pm
Quote from: patrick jane on August 04, 2020, 01:32:02 pm
yep
indeed
;D
Title: Re: Bible Versions, Interpretations and Word Changes
Post by: patrick jane on October 14, 2020, 03:56:41 pm: Quote from: patrick jane on October 11, 2020, 10:08:56 am
Quote from: patrick jane on September 21, 2020, 03:49:04 pm
Quote from: patrick jane on August 04, 2020, 01:32:02 pm
yep
indeed
;D
8)
Title: Re: Bible Versions, Interpretations and Word Changes
Post by: patrick jane on October 16, 2020, 08:48:00 am: Quote from: patrick jane on October 14, 2020, 03:56:41 pm
Quote from: patrick jane on October 11, 2020, 10:08:56 am
Quote from: patrick jane on September 21, 2020, 03:49:04 pm
Quote from: patrick jane on August 04, 2020, 01:32:02 pm
yep
indeed
;D
8)
ESV is becoming my favorite
Title: Re: Bible Versions, Interpretations and Word Changes
Post by: guest73 on October 18, 2020, 08:45:13 am: Quote from: patrick jane on October 16, 2020, 08:48:00 am
Quote from: patrick jane on October 14, 2020, 03:56:41 pm
Quote from: patrick jane on October 11, 2020, 10:08:56 am
Quote from: patrick jane on September 21, 2020, 03:49:04 pm
Quote from: patrick jane on August 04, 2020, 01:32:02 pm
yep
indeed
;D
8)
ESV is becoming my favorite
Good one
Title: Re: Bible Versions, Interpretations and Word Changes
Post by: patrick jane on September 05, 2021, 11:27:39 am: (https://www-images.christianitytoday.com/images/125385.jpg?w=700)
https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2021/september/first-nations-version-indigenous-bible-ivp-translation-wild.html

Native Christians: Indigenous Bible Version Is ‘Made By Us For Us’

The recently released New Testament translation adopts Native American descriptors for God—the Creator and Great Spirit.

It’s a Bible verse familiar to many Christians—and even to many non-Christians who have seen John 3:16 on billboards and T-shirts or scrawled across eye black under football players’ helmets.

But Terry Wildman hopes the new translation published Tuesday by InterVarsity Press, First Nations Version: An Indigenous Translation of the New Testament, will help Christians and Indigenous peoples read it again in a fresh way.

“The Great Spirit loves this world of human beings so deeply he gave us his Son—the only Son who fully represents him. All who trust in him and his way will not come to a bad end, but will have the life of the world to come that never fades away, full of beauty and harmony,” reads the First Nations Version of the verse.

In the First Nations Version, “eternal life,” a concept unfamiliar in Native American cultures, becomes “the life of the world to come that never fades away, full of beauty and harmony.” The Greek word “cosmos,” usually translated in English as “the world,” had to be reconsidered, too: It doesn’t mean the planet Earth but how the world works and how creation lives and functions together, said Wildman, the lead translator and project manager of the First Nations Version.

They’re phrases that resonated with Wildman, changing the way he read the Bible even as he translated it for Native American readers.

“We believe it’s a gift not only to our Native people, (but) from our Native people to the dominant culture. We believe that there’s a fresh way that people can experience the story again from a Native perspective,” he said.

The idea for an Indigenous Bible translation first came to Wildman nearly 20 years ago in the storeroom of the church he pastored on the Hopi Reservation in Arizona.

Wildman, who is Ojibwe and Yaqui, was excited to find a Hopi translation of the New Testament in storage. He wanted to hear how that beloved Scripture sounded in Hopi, how it translated back into English.

But, he said, while many Hopi elders still speak their native language and children now are learning it in schools, he couldn’t find anyone able to read it. That is true for many Native American nations, he added, noting that at the same time Christian missionaries were translating the Bible into Native languages, they were also working with the boarding schools in the United States and Canada that punished students for speaking those languages.

It occurred to the pastor that “since 90-plus percent of our Native people are not speaking their tribal language or reading their tribal language, we felt there needed to be a translation in English worded for Native people,” he said.

Wildman, a licensed local pastor in the United Methodist Church, has been working on translating the Bible into words and concepts familiar to many Native Americans ever since.

He first began experimenting by rewording Scripture passages he was using in a prison ministry, giving them more of a “Native traditional sound,” he said—a sound he’d learned by being around Native elders and reading books written in a more traditional style of English by Native Americans like Oglala Lakota spiritual leader Black Elk.

He and his wife, Darlene, who have a music ministry called RainSong, also recorded readings of those passages over music in an album called The Great Story from the Sacred Book. It won a Native American Music Award in 2008 for best spoken-word album.

Wildman was encouraged by the reactions he received as he shared his rewordings across the country at tribal centers, Native American-led churches and powwows.

“They just loved listening to it because it didn’t have the church language. It didn’t have the colonial language. It had more of a Native feel to it—as much as possible that you can put in English,” he said.

Many Native people asked what Bible he was reading from.

Young people have told him it sounds like one of their elders telling them a story. Elders have said it resonates with how they heard traditional stories from their parents and grandparents.

As others encouraged him to turn his rewordings into a full translation of the Bible, Wildman published a children’s book retelling the Christmas story, Birth of the Chosen One, and a harmonization of the four Gospels called When the Great Spirit Walked among Us.

Then, on April Fool’s Day 2015, he heard from the CEO of OneBook Canada, who suggested the Bible translation organization fund his work. The offer wasn’t a prank, he said, it was “confirmation from Creator that this was something he wanted.”

“Everybody hears English a little differently,” Wildman said.

“We have all of these translations for that purpose to reach another generation, to reach a particular people group. But we had never had one for our Native people that has actually been translated into English.”

Wildman began by forming a translation council to guide the process, gathering men and women, young and old, from different Native cultures and church backgrounds. They started with a list of nearly 200 keywords Wycliffe Bible Translators said must be translated properly to get a good translation of Scripture.

With that foundation, Wildman got to work, sending drafts to the council for feedback. He looked up the original Greek text of the New Testament. He checked to see how other English translations rendered tricky passages. He consulted Dave Ohlson, a former Wycliffe translator who helped found OneBook Canada, part of the Wycliffe Global Alliance.

The Indigenous translation uses names for God common in many Native cultures, including “Great Spirit” or “Creator.” Names of biblical figures echo their original meanings in Greek and Hebrew: Jesus becomes “Creator Sets Free” and Abraham, “Father of Many Nations.”

“We believe it’s very important that the Gospel be kind of decolonized and told in a Native way, but being accurate to the meaning of the original language and understanding that it’s a different culture,” Wildman said.

Over the years, he and his council have published editions of the Gospel of Luke and Ephesians and a book called Walking the Good Road that included the four Gospels alongside Acts and Ephesians.

A number of ministries already have started using those translations, including Foursquare Native Ministries, Lutheran Indian Ministries, Montana Indian Ministries, Cru Nations and Native InterVarsity, he said.

Native InterVarsity, where Wildman serves as director of spiritual growth and leadership, has distributed earlier editions of the First Nations Version at conferences and used the Indigenous translation in its Bible studies for Native college students for several years.

Megan Murdock Krischke, national director of Native InterVarsity, said students have been more engaged with the translation, hearing the Bible in a way they’re used to stories being told.

“Even though it’s still English, it feels like it’s made by us for us. This is a version of Scripture that is for Native people, and it’s indigenized. You’re not having to kind of sort through the ways other cultures talk about faith and spirituality,” said Krischke, who is Wyandotte and Cherokee.

“It’s one less barrier between Native people and being able to follow Jesus.”

Earlier this month, The Jesus Film Project also released a collection of short animated films called “Retelling the Good Story,” bringing to life the stories of Jesus, or Creator Sets Free, feeding the 5,000 and walking on water from the First Nations Version.

Wildman said the response from Native peoples and ministries to the First Nations Version has exceeded any expectations he had when he first began rewording Bible passages.

He hopes it can help break down barriers between Native and non-Native peoples, too. He pointed out the suspicion and misinformation many white Christians have passed down for generations, believing Native Americans worship the devil and their cultures are evil when they share a belief in a Creator, he said.

“We hope that this will help non-Native people be more interested in our Native people—maybe the history, understanding the need for further reconciliation and things like that,” Wildman said.

“We hope that this will be part of creating a conversation that will help that process.”
Title: Re: Bible Versions, Interpretations and Word Changes
Post by: patrick jane on December 25, 2021, 05:48:03 am: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf3RsI0ghi4&list=WL&index=223
Title: Re: Bible Versions, Interpretations and Word Changes
Post by: patrick jane on December 25, 2021, 06:57:38 am: (https://silentword.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/LM05-600x600-72.png)
https://theologyforums.com/index.php?threads/bible-translators-add-400-sign-languages-to-to-do-list.17100/

Bible Translators Add 400 Sign Languages to To-Do List

First finished Scripture for deaf people prompts attention to global need.

The completion of the first sign language Bible translated from the original languages prompted cheers and celebrations in the fall of 2020.

It took nearly four decades for more than 50 translators to finish the American Sign Language Version (ASLV), and the project started by Deaf Missions received crucial support from the Deaf Bible Society, DOOR International, Deaf Harbor, the American Bible Society, Wycliffe Bible Translators, Seed Company, and Pioneer Bible Translators.

But for the deaf, it’s one down, more than 400 to go.

“Still only one sign language of the over 400 has a complete Bible,” said J. R. Bucklew, the founder and former president of the Deaf Bible Society, who now works as director of major gifts at Pioneer Bible Translators. “And still, no other sign language outside of the American Sign Language has a full New Testament. There’s a lot of work ahead of us.”

Bucklew doesn’t diminish the significance of the completion of the ASLV. As a hearing person born to deaf parents, he sees the translation as a major historic event. And as an advocate for sign language Bible translation, he sees the ASLV as the “great accelerator” that is helping build the momentum necessary for the translation work that remains to be done. IllumiNations, an alliance of 11 Bible translation organizations, has set a goal of rendering Scripture in every known language by 2033. There are, according to the group, about 7,000 known languages in the world, and roughly more than half have little or no Bible. While people may access Scripture by learning English, Spanish, or a dominant trade language, the evangelical organizations believe everyone should have equal access in their “heart ...
Title: Re: Bible Versions, Interpretations and Word Changes
Post by: patrick jane on February 09, 2022, 02:08:53 pm: (https://www-images.christianitytoday.com/images/127687.jpg?h=393&w=700)
https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2022/february/passion-translation-tpt-bible-gateway-remove-charismatic-pa.html

Bible Gateway Removes The Passion Translation

Popular among charismatics, the “heart-level” Bible version was criticized as a paraphrase posing as translation.

A Bible version designed to “recapture the emotion of God’s Word” was removed from Bible Gateway last week. The Passion Translation (TPT) is listed as “no longer available” among the site’s 90 English-language Bible offerings.

First released as a New Testament in 2017, The Passion Translation includes additions that do not appear in the source manuscripts, phrases meant to draw out God’s “tone” and “heart” in each passage.

Translator Brian Simmons—a former missionary linguist and pastor who now leads Passion and Fire Ministries—sees his work in Bible translation as part of a divine calling on his life to bring a word, the Word, to the nations. His translation has been endorsed by a range of apostolic charismatic Christians, including The Call’s Lou Engle, Bethel’s Bill Johnson, and Hillsong’s Bobbie Houston.

TPT’s publisher, BroadStreet Publishing Group, confirmed that Bible Gateway “made the disappointing decision to discontinue their license for The Passion Translation” as of January 2022.

“While no explanation was given, BroadStreet Publishing accepts that Bible Gateway has the right to make decisions as they see fit with the platforms they manage,” BroadStreet said in a statement.

Bible Gateway’s parent company, HarperCollins Christian Publishing, told CT, “We periodically review our content, making changes as necessary, to align with our business goals.” The company declined to offer further details about its reason for the decision. TPT remains available on YouVersion and Logos Bible Software.

from Simmons’s social media showed he initially responded to The Passion Translation’s removal from Bible Gateway by saying, “Cancel culture is alive in the church world” and asking followers to request the site restore the version. That February 2 post no longer appears on his Facebook page.

Simmons argues TPT’s additions and context “expand the essential meaning of the original language by highlighting the essence of God’s original message.”

“With The Passion Translation, we have a high goal to being accurate to the text, but accuracy involves the heart behind it,” Simmons said in an interview last month. “We’re trying to discover, communicate, and release God’s heart through the words we choose.”

Translation versus paraphrase
Simmons and his publisher describe TPT as a translation instead of a paraphrase because Simmons and his partners worked to develop the text from Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic manuscripts rather than taking an existing English translation and putting it into his own words.

Simmons has repeatedly defended the translation label, saying that all Bible translations involve some paraphrase. He puts TPT in the same category as thought-for-thought translations like the New International Version (NIV).

But Bible scholars, including those who translated the NIV, use a more rigorous standard. A new version must closely adhere to the wording, syntax, and structure of its source. Critics of TPT say it doesn’t meet those standards and functions as a paraphrase while presenting itself as a translation.

If TPT’s removal from Bible Gateway was related to the concerns over its translation claims, “I think that’s a good thing,” said Andrew Wilson, a Reformed charismatic who pastors at King’s Church London and a columnist for CT. “There are just too many additions to the text that have no basis in the original—which is fine (sort of) if it’s self-consciously a paraphrase, but not if people think it’s a translation.”

Wilson first raised concerns in a 2016 blog post about TPT and continues to get asked about the version from fellow charismatics. He wrote that he doesn’t recommend it, objects to the publisher’s advice to use it from the pulpit, and urges leaders to clarify that it’s not a translation.

Certain passages in TPT are twice as long as in other translations such as the NIV. The Lord’s Prayer in Luke 11, for example, is printed in red as Jesus’ words and reads:

Our heavenly Father, may the glory of your name be the center on which our life turns. May your Holy Spirit come upon us and cleanse us. Manifest your kingdom on earth. And give us our needed bread for the coming day. Forgive our sins as we ourselves release forgiveness to those who have wronged us. And rescue us every time we face tribulations.

A 2018 review in The Gospel Coalition journal Themelios critiqued Simmons’s translation process, specifically his overuse of “double translation,” bringing in multiple meanings of a word even if it wasn’t clear that wordplay was intended. It was written by a scholar on the NIV Committee on Bible Translation, who worried that Simmons’s own theology and favorite themes were driving his word choice.

Mike Winger, a Calvary Chapel–trained pastor who teaches through his online ministry Bible Thinker, has drawn in over one million YouTube views with a series examining The Passion Translation.

“Bible Gateway removing TPT after reviewing the work in more detail is a signal to everyone that the work may have issues,” he said. “When you add that to the growing number of scholars, pastors, and laymen who are raising the red flag about TPT, you have a loud and simple message: ‘TPT has enough issues that it is best to avoid it.’”

Translations and tribalism
Winger recruited evangelical scholars including Darrell Bock, Nijay Gupta, Douglas Moo, and Craig Bloomberg to critique specific TPT passages. Gupta repeated some of his reservations to CT, saying, if TPT were to appear on a site alongside established translations “it should have a warning label: ‘One of these is not like the other.’ … non-academics should know that TPT does not have the backing of accredited seminaries and linguistic organizations experienced in translation work.”

Winger has called out Simmons for bringing in “large amounts of material that really have no presence in the Greek or Hebrew … and the words he’s adding are particular words that are part of a hyper-charismatic, signs and wonders movement, words that are about imparting and triggering and unleashing and releasing.”

Mark Ward, editor of Bible Study Magazine, fears a trend of subsets of the church creating Bible translations of and for their own. In his book, Authorized: The Use and Misuse of the King James Bible, he urges against letting translations become tribal boundary markers.

“As Paul said of himself and Peter and Apollos, ‘All are yours.’ I hate seeing the Bible caught in Christian tugs of war,” he told CT. “The reason Luther and Tyndale translated alone is that nooses stood ready nearby. That’s no longer our problem. I think the best way to promote each other’s trust in our good Bible translations is to use—and expect—multi-denominational, committee-based works.”

There is a long history of single-author Bible translations, with Robert Alter, N. T. Wright, and D. B. Hart releasing recent versions. The number of Bible resources is growing, and they’re becoming more accessible to the average reader through digital platforms like Bible Gateway, YouVersion, and Logos.

Peter Gurry, New Testament professor at Phoenix Seminary, said it’s not surprising that any new Bible project would want to position itself as both trustworthy and better than what’s available already.

For Christians cracking open or tapping over to new translations, he suggests they consider the audience of a new resource, look for consistency within its own principles, and see how it lines up with the versions they know already.

“For readers who don’t know the original languages (which is, of course, most of them) … you can start to form a judgment of a new translation by comparing it with those other translations that have gained a trusted readership over the years,” he said. “In the case of evangelicals, this means something like KJV, NIV, ESV, NASB.”

Christians who care about reading reliable and accurate biblical texts have been wary and sometimes critical of paraphrases. Even The Message—among the top 10 best-selling Bible versions in the world—has gotten dinged over the years by pastors and scholars alike for what it adds, misses, or rewords.

But its author, Eugene Peterson, was clear that he was putting the Bible into his voice—describing the project as a paraphrase, not a translation. He even said he felt “uneasy” about its use in worship and personally still preferred the originals in his devotions. (The Message, along with paraphrases such as the J. B. Phillips New Testament and The Living Bible, are available on Bible Gateway.)

Passion and power in the text
“Once you know God’s word through a standard translation, I love how paraphrases can yank you out of your Bible-reading rut and provide fresh insight into Scripture. Single-author translations likewise,” said Ward. “The one thing I have liked the most about TPT were those moments when I felt like I got to read a familiar phrase again for the first time, because Simmons just put it a little differently.”

For dedicated TPT readers, the new phrasing and the emotive power of the text are major draws.

On Instagram, Jenn Johnson, known for her Bethel music hits like “Goodness of God,” regularly posts pictures of her daily reading from The Passion Translation, with whole passages underlined and phrases like “I spoke in faith” and “no wonder we never give up” (2 Corinthians 4) circled in pen.

Bill Johnson at Bethel Church still uses the New American Standard Bible (NASB) in most of his writing and preaching due to familiarity, he said in a clip from last year titled, “Is The Passion Translation Heresy?” He uses TPT for devotional reading, as he did with paraphrases before it. He believes they are particularly helpful for new believers, too, and Bethel sells a branded TPT in its bookstore.

“For inspiration, I love The Passion Translation,” the Bethel founder said. “Every time he (Simmons) deviates from what would be a traditional approach to a verse, he explains it so powerfully that even if you don’t agree with him, you at least understand where he’s coming from.”

Simmons is deliberate about making TPT passionate and readable. In a promotional video, he calls it “a dynamic new version of the Bible that is easy to read, unlocking the mystery of God’s heart, the passions he has for you, deep emotions that will evoke an overwhelming response of love as he unfolds the Scriptures before your very eyes.”

He describes how he has “uncovered” what he sees as “the love language of God that has been missing from many translations.”

“God’s love language is not hidden, or missing,” Wilson wrote as part of his critique from 2015. “It is in plain sight in the many excellent translations we have available.”

TPT translation continues
While serving as missionaries in the 1980s, Simmons and his wife helped develop a new Bible translation for an unreached people group in Central America. After returning to the US, planting a church, and leading their Bible-teaching ministry, he began to work on The Passion Translation using the skills he honed on the mission field.

The Passion Translation contrasts this approach—where translations are done by necessity by individuals or small teams, whose main goal is to transfer the essential meaning of the text—with traditional translation work, which involves a broader committee of experts.

Simmons is used to facing questions about his credentials. During a recent interview with Life Today Live, he said, “I get asked that a lot. People say, ‘Do you feel qualified?’ I say, ‘Who in the world is?’ … My qualifications are that I was told to do this from the Lord. Whatever he tells you to do, he will meet the need you have to finish it.”

While Simmons serves as lead translator, TPT lists seven scholars who oversee and review his work. They are currently working on the remaining books of the Old Testament and moving forward with plans to release a full Bible edition around 2027.

“An exhaustive and thorough review and update of the entire Bible will be undertaken ahead of its release in the next 5-6 years,” BroadStreet said in a statement. “The review of the text by our team of theologians and industry professionals will continue to address feedback, as has been our approach to-date.”

“We believe The Passion Translation will become one of the most widely read and beloved translations in the market for years to come,” the publisher said. “We hope this translation will help bring the Bible to life for this generation and through it, people will encounter Jesus and his love for them in new and exciting ways.”

Neither Bible Gateway nor YouVersion offered figures on its popularity; five years into publication, TPT does not currently rank among the top 25 best-selling Bibles in print.
Title: Re: Bible Versions, Interpretations and Word Changes
Post by: patrick jane on February 25, 2022, 03:35:28 pm: (https://www-images.christianitytoday.com/images/127889.jpg?h=528&w=940)
https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2022/february-web-only/bible-reference-tool-old-testament-scripture-interpretation.html

Scripture Interprets Scripture. This Book Shows How.

Pastors and scholars can now explore cross-references throughout the Old Testament.

Zondervan Academic recently released a new biblical reference tool that is sure to end up in pastors’ personal libraries.

The book is titled Old Testament Use of Old Testament: A Book-by-Book Guide by Gary Edward Schnittjer. Weighing in at over four pounds, with over a thousand pages, it promises to be the definitive work on the Scripture’s use of Scripture for years to come.

Preaching on the New Testament without a firm grasp on the Old Testament bears some resemblance to a child’s retelling of her parents’ romance story—which can blend multiple events or conversations into one and confuse identities or timelines.

The truth is, a whole lot happened in history before Matthew or Paul showed up on the scene in the first century—but that fact can sometimes be missed when reading a standard Bible.

Some Bibles include footnotes for verses in the New Testament that refer to Old Testament passages—but they do not show how a particular phrase or theme evolved within and across the Old Testament itself. Simply identifying the Old Testament background of a New Testament text often collapses the trajectory of its development into a single reference point.

To tell the story of Scripture well, we must trace an idea’s full development before it showed up in the New Testament. Because by the time the authors of the New Testament appeal to an Old Testament text, it has often already had its own history of interpretive reuse within the OT.

While several reference tools explore how New Testament authors quote or allude to Old Testament texts, this work presents how Old Testament authors quote other Old Testament texts.

Schnittjer does not answer all the exegetical questions at play in each instance, but he organizes the data based on shared linguistic or thematic similarities in the text. His organizational approach allows readers to explore exegetical allusions throughout the Bible—where Scripture interprets Scripture.

To my knowledge, no one has attempted anything quite like this before

Old Testament Use of Old Testament is rigorous in its methodology, creating a helpful system to classify allusions in the text. In each instance, Schnittjer assesses the likelihood that biblical authors were interpreting or cross-referencing based on another Old Testament text.

To illustrate how a pastor might use this tool to prepare for a sermon, I will offer an example. Imagine a pastor is preaching through Hebrews and comes to chapter 2, verses 6–8:

But there is a place where someone has testified:

“What is mankind that you are mindful of them,
a son of man that you care for him?
You made them a little lower than the angels;
you crowned them with glory and honor
and put everything under their feet.”

In putting everything under them, God left nothing that is not subject to them. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to them.

It is widely recognized that Hebrews 2:6–8 references a quotation of Psalm 8. However, Psalm 8 is itself dependent on an earlier Old Testament passage, Genesis 1:16, 26, 28—and it is further evoked in Job 7:17. So before we ever interpret Hebrews 2, we should first develop a clear sense of how Psalm 8 is interacting with these Old Testament texts.

For those unable to read Hebrew and Greek, Schnittjer’s tool provides a comparison of the following passages for English Bible users to highlight the similarities:

Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” (Gen 1:26)

When I consider your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have set in place,” what is mankind that you are mindful of them, human beings that you care for them? You have made them a little lower than God and crowned them with glory and honor. You made them rulers over the works of your hands; you put every thing under their feet: all flocks and herds, and the animals of the wild, the birds in the sky, and the fish in the sea, all that swim the paths of the seas. (Ps 8:3–8[4–9]. V. 5[6] lit.)

In the tool, bold and italics indicate use of the same words in Hebrew, underlined words are similar, and the dotted underline (depicted in bold italics above) draws attention to interpretive aspects of the text.

In the discussion that follows, Schnittjer considers whether the statement “Let us make mankind” in Genesis 1:26 is a reference to the divine council. He decides in favor of this view but notes the act of creation is still written in the masculine singular form: God alone makes humanity in his image alone.

This question ties to Psalm 8:5, which reads “God” in Hebrew and “angels” in Greek and is echoed in Heb 2:7, 9 as “angels.” Schnittjer considers possible explanations for this shift, noting that the Septuagint often employs euphemistic language.

He concludes that “the psalmist uses Elohim from Gen 1 in its sense as ‘God’; the Septuagintal translators use ‘celestial delegates’ as a euphemism; and the author to the Hebrews takes advantage of the Septuagint’s translation to advance revelation concerning Messiah”.

In other words, Schnittjer does not take Hebrews 2 as offering the definitive interpretation of Psalm 8; rather, he sees it as faithfully advancing revelation about Jesus. And whether one agrees with this assessment or not, Schnittjer’s insights have made plain what is at stake.

Finally, we turn to Schnittjer’s chapter on Job, where again he identifies the exegetical allusion as correlating to Psalm 8:4. In the section on Job 7:17, we encounter another two-page discussion of its allusion to Psalm 8, with attention to the role of Psalm 144.

As before, Schnittjer has helpfully laid out the relevant passages and flagged repeated words (bold or italics) and used a dotted underline line (in bold italics below) to indicate interpretive activity:

What is mankind that you are mindful of them, human beings that you care for them? You have made them a little lower than the angels and crowned them with glory and honor. You made them rulers over the works of your hands; you put everything under their feet. (Ps 8:4-6)

Yahweh, what are human beings that you care for them, mere mortals that you think of them? They are like a breath; their days are like a fleeting shadow. (144:3-4)

[Job] What is mankind that you make so much of them, that you give them so much attention, that you examine them every morning and test them every moment? Will you never look away from me, or let me alone even for an instant? If I have sinned, what have I done to you, you who sees everything we do? Why have you made me your target? Have I become a burden to you? (Job 7:17–20)

Schnittjer discusses this development and provides an interpretation of the allusion. In this case, he argues that Job is unhappy with the conditions outlined by Psalm 8—in which humanity is the center of God’s attention. By contrast, Job would prefer to be left alone by God.

Eliphaz also evokes Psalm 8 in Job 15:14, exposing his distorted view of how retribution works—a theme that Job picks up again in 19:19.

In his summary, Schnittjer concludes that “all of this demonstrates ways that the use of scriptural traditions in the debates in Job challenge the book’s readership to rethink and modify their faulty views of retribution.”

Careful attention to the contours of these exegetical allusions suggests that Job draws on a previous paradigm from Psalm 8 (and perhaps Psalm 144), which itself is an allusion to Genesis 1. A sermon on Hebrews 2, then, has a rich field of texts from which to draw insight.

Being aware of these possibilities helps pastors and scholars determine what to look for as they teach on both Old and New Testament passages—so they can present their congregations with a richer view of God and a fuller picture of Jesus as the fulfillment of the scriptural narrative.

Carmen Joy Imes is associate professor of Old Testament at Biola University and the author of Bearing God’s Name: Why Sinai Still Matters (InterVarsity Press). She’s currently writing a follow-up book, tentatively titled Being God’s Image: Why Creation Still Matters.
Title: Re: Bible Versions, Interpretations and Word Changes
Post by: patrick jane on May 18, 2022, 11:24:16 am: Does the Bible Have Mistakes

The Bible does have contradictions, and other things mistaken for errors, but it is the infallible word of God. Believe the Bible in your hand, without mistake!

1 hour 10 minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFrjv_sfRXY
Title: Re: Bible Versions, Interpretations and Word Changes
Post by: patrick jane on May 31, 2022, 04:53:50 pm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HglAlpD2qmw