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Theology, Anthropology & Archaeology => BIBLE STUDY - From The Late Lori Bolinger => Topic started by: guest24 on September 24, 2018, 12:24:33 pm
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Where did Jesus get the power to be without sin...below is a short version of what I came to during study but I know that many people disagree with me on this so please put forth your reasoning and scriptures.
I did a study on the power of the Kingdom. One of the powers I looked into was the power of the HS. I was amazed when I began studying this topic by itself how much Christ was influenced by the HS. Consider these passages Acts 10:38; Luke 3:22; Matthew 4:1; John 3:34
I have come to understand that Jesus the Christ had (being God Himself, as the trinity teaches) a unique relationship and understanding of God that we cannot have or know and yet He was while here on earth every bit experiencing the weakness of the flesh...Hebrews 5:8 and 2 Corinthians 13:4. I have come to the conclusion that it was the power of the indwelling HS that allowed Him to be without sin. Again, let me repeat that His relationship with that HS was unique, no issue there, but it was the HS power that gave Him His righteousness here on this earth. The very same HS that is in us....
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Where did Jesus get the power to be without sin...below is a short version of what I came to during study but I know that many people disagree with me on this so please put forth your reasoning and scriptures.
I did a study on the power of the Kingdom. One of the powers I looked into was the power of the HS. I was amazed when I began studying this topic by itself how much Christ was influenced by the HS. Consider these passages Acts 10:38; Luke 3:22; Matthew 4:1; John 3:34
I have come to understand that Jesus the Christ had (being God Himself, as the trinity teaches) a unique relationship and understanding of God that we cannot have or know and yet He was while here on earth every bit experiencing the weakness of the flesh...Hebrews 5:8 and 2 Corinthians 13:4. I have come to the conclusion that it was the power of the indwelling HS that allowed Him to be without sin. Again, let me repeat that His relationship with that HS was unique, no issue there, but it was the HS power that gave Him His righteousness here on this earth. The very same HS that is in us....
Great study opportunity here. We hear a lot the Jesus was fully man and full God but is that true? If so then that explains where the power came from. Seeing that the HS, God and Christ are one and distinct, we can conclude indeed that the Holy Spirit in Christ and of Christ defeated sin and then death. Sorry, I'm thinking of scriptures but just popping real quick right now and I'll look some up later.
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Where did Jesus get the power to be without sin...below is a short version of what I came to during study but I know that many people disagree with me on this so please put forth your reasoning and scriptures.
I did a study on the power of the Kingdom. One of the powers I looked into was the power of the HS. I was amazed when I began studying this topic by itself how much Christ was influenced by the HS. Consider these passages Acts 10:38; Luke 3:22; Matthew 4:1; John 3:34
I have come to understand that Jesus the Christ had (being God Himself, as the trinity teaches) a unique relationship and understanding of God that we cannot have or know and yet He was while here on earth every bit experiencing the weakness of the flesh...Hebrews 5:8 and 2 Corinthians 13:4. I have come to the conclusion that it was the power of the indwelling HS that allowed Him to be without sin. Again, let me repeat that His relationship with that HS was unique, no issue there, but it was the HS power that gave Him His righteousness here on this earth. The very same HS that is in us....
Great study opportunity here. We hear a lot the Jesus was fully man and full God but is that true? If so then that explains where the power came from. Seeing that the HS, God and Christ are one and distinct, we can conclude indeed that the Holy Spirit in Christ and of Christ defeated sin and then death. Sorry, I'm thinking of scriptures but just popping real quick right now and I'll look some up later.
I disagree. It is very apparent that Jesus had abdicated His Powers while on earth as a Man. He was given certain powers as were the Apostles from the Holy Spirit.
As far as Him not sinning? Most Jewish people in Yesteryear lived in a totally different world. Most were isolated, worked their land, worshiped God and followed as close as possible the LAW. It appears, Jesus was the only man who could have passed every Law in the Book (630+). Yet, He never did get to test the majority of them. I am pretty sure he was tested in the context of the ten commandments. (i.e. He was never married so those laws did not apply to Him).
I suggest because of those that would want to Kill the young boy, young man he was shielded from large crowds, etc. We see this when they went into town and lost HIM for He stayed behind. Yes, He had His father's protection that day and was told who HE actually was, but He was still shielded from the wiles of the City.
Remember, He was also a very young man when He died. (30s)
I am also sure the Holy SPirit did have influences on HIM. Rem. The Holy SPirit was not indwelling in those that believed as HE is today. I believe that influence was more in the manner of Protection from those who would do Him harm than influences Him to NOT sin. Isolation is the key word here.
There are many passages that support this view but two that I use are ]
Mar 13:32.."But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."
acts 1:6-7 .."And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power."
In the Acts passage above,He did not include himself for this was after His death, burial and resurrection.
Blade
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I don't think I am following your assertion of how He was without sin...can you clarify and please clarify how the passages you offered address what power He used to fulfill the law.
Also as to the HS no, He didn't dwell in man until after the resurrection but He was present in the OT and did do things in man...Psalm 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
Isaiah 63:11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?
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Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, an almah shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.
Isaiah 7:14-16
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Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, an almah shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.
Isaiah 7:14-16
"that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good."
Jesus parents and God (his father) make sure he knew the difference in good and evil and to choose the good at all times.
Is this not like any Good parent's charge to teach their children good from evil. In this way, the parents (true Christians) have the Holy Spirit within to guide them at all times. This would be a positive for Divine guidance for the young Jesus.
Also, all parents have what was handed down to them in way of instructions for good against evil. This would be a negative for Divine guidance for the young Jesus.
Was Jesus raised any different than His Brothers and sisters up to the time that He found out who His Real Father was. If No is the answer, then through extension of the ages, most Children of True Christian Parents are doing the same and Joseph and Mary.
Blade
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For those who disagree with the OP assumption, can you show through scripture a different understanding of the passages presented? thanks, I should have more time tomorrow to dig in
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This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel,
saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by My spirit,
saith the LORD of hosts.
Zechariah 4:6
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This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel,
saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by My spirit,
saith the LORD of hosts.
Zechariah 4:6
I have said something about this before but I would like to refine that post. The questions being: How did Jesus get through all of his years, up to His Baptism and the receiving of the Holy Spirit, without sinning for after those years.
I believe this was through good parenting and the fear of the lord.
However, after He was Baptized and had received the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit guided Him for the rest of His life.
You too, can reach your goal of righteousness, if you will follow these three guidelines.
*The Holy Spirit will teach you if you will Listen!
*The Holy Spirit will guide you if you will follow!
*The Holy Spirit will protect you if you will wear the whole armor of GOD!
Blade
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You have to understand Christ's uniqueness, nobody else was begotten of God in the womb. He was without sin, without the sin nature.
He was tempted ... that means the devil tempted Him, it doesn't mean He had any desire for sin.
WHY is it important to grasp this point?
Because if He had sin in His members then He could not be the sacrifice for sin, He would have had to die on account of the sin in His own members.
We see Him being tempted of the devil ... there was not the slightest hesitation in His rebuttal.
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Jesus did not come as Exemplar but as Saviour
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You have to understand Christ's uniqueness, nobody else was begotten of God in the womb. He was without sin, without the sin nature.
He was tempted ... that means the devil tempted Him, it doesn't mean He had any desire for sin.
WHY is it important to grasp this point?
Because if He had sin in His members then He could not be the sacrifice for sin, He would have had to die on account of the sin in His own members.
We see Him being tempted of the devil ... there was not the slightest hesitation in His rebuttal.
By this time, he already knew who his father was, He had been Baptized and received Holy Spirit who helped Him against the Temptation of Satan.
This is and was the same with us. Those who are truly saved, know who their heavenly father is, they receive the Holy Spirit to teach, guide and protect them for the woes of today's society.
Blade
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You have to understand Christ's uniqueness, nobody else was begotten of God in the womb. He was without sin, without the sin nature.
He was tempted ... that means the devil tempted Him, it doesn't mean He had any desire for sin.
WHY is it important to grasp this point?
Because if He had sin in His members then He could not be the sacrifice for sin, He would have had to die on account of the sin in His own members.
We see Him being tempted of the devil ... there was not the slightest hesitation in His rebuttal.
to me the question is important because if He was sin free because of His reliance on the HS then that tells us how far we are from complete reliance on the HS.
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You've got the thing by the tail
We are free from sin because He bore them in His own body on the tree, when the revelation of that comes fully home to you and you rejoice over it and give thanks for it and testify to it, then you shall live accordingly
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You've got the thing by the tail
We are free from sin because He bore them in His own body on the tree, when the revelation of that comes fully home to you and you rejoice over it and give thanks for it and testify to it, then you shall live accordingly
Billy, I think they were talking about Jesus before the cross!
Blade
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He didn't bear His own sins on the cross He bore OUR sins.
He didn't sin because He didn't have the sin nature. If He had the sin nature He would have had to die on His own account, but He died on our account.
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He didn't bear His own sins on the cross He bore OUR sins.
He didn't sin because He didn't have the sin nature. If He had the sin nature He would have had to die on His own account, but He died on our account.
Yet scripture says He learned obedience and that He was powered by the HS...what significance does that have to His nature and sinlessness?
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He didn't bear His own sins on the cross He bore OUR sins.
He didn't sin because He didn't have the sin nature. If He had the sin nature He would have had to die on His own account, but He died on our account.
Yet scripture says He learned obedience and that He was powered by the HS...what significance does that have to His nature and sinlessness?
There was a time he was an child and was treated as such for a child under the "age of Knowing" is not held accountable for their sins. From the time of twelve in the temple, he found out about his real father and had to live up to His Father's expectation. Once He was baptized and the Holy Spirit entered His mortal body, the third time period where sin (Satin) had its chance but could not temp Jesus at any stage, started.
Blade[/shadow]
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He didn't bear His own sins on the cross He bore OUR sins.
He didn't sin because He didn't have the sin nature. If He had the sin nature He would have had to die on His own account, but He died on our account.
Yet scripture says He learned obedience and that He was powered by the HS...what significance does that have to His nature and sinlessness?
There was a time he was an child and was treated as such for a child under the "age of Knowing" is not held accountable for their sins. From the time of twelve in the temple, he found out about his real father and had to live up to His Father's expectation. Once He was baptized and the Holy Spirit entered His mortal body, the third time period where sin (Satin) had its chance but could not temp Jesus at any stage, started.
Blade[/shadow]
Bingo...the HS came upon Him...the same HS we have in us....so why was He without sin but we are NOT if powered by the same HS?
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He didn't bear His own sins on the cross He bore OUR sins.
He didn't sin because He didn't have the sin nature. If He had the sin nature He would have had to die on His own account, but He died on our account.
Yet scripture says He learned obedience and that He was powered by the HS...what significance does that have to His nature and sinlessness?
There was a time he was an child and was treated as such for a child under the "age of Knowing" is not held accountable for their sins. From the time of twelve in the temple, he found out about his real father and had to live up to His Father's expectation. Once He was baptized and the Holy Spirit entered His mortal body, the third time period where sin (Satin) had its chance but could not temp Jesus at any stage, started.
Blade[/shadow]
Bingo...the HS came upon Him...the same HS we have in us....so why was He without sin but we are NOT if powered by the same HS?
Good morning LORI..... finally we are on the same day light savings time.lol
Just because you get HS does not mean you will not sin. It is a process called sanctification where your walk with Jesus, toward righteousness is gradually, slowly
taking you to Glorification.
Have a great day!
Blade
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He didn't bear His own sins on the cross He bore OUR sins.
He didn't sin because He didn't have the sin nature. If He had the sin nature He would have had to die on His own account, but He died on our account.
Yet scripture says He learned obedience and that He was powered by the HS...what significance does that have to His nature and sinlessness?
There was a time he was an child and was treated as such for a child under the "age of Knowing" is not held accountable for their sins. From the time of twelve in the temple, he found out about his real father and had to live up to His Father's expectation. Once He was baptized and the Holy Spirit entered His mortal body, the third time period where sin (Satin) had its chance but could not temp Jesus at any stage, started.
Blade[/shadow]
Bingo...the HS came upon Him...the same HS we have in us....so why was He without sin but we are NOT if powered by the same HS?
"Do you want to be healed?"
Do you want victory over sin?
It is not found in the Holy Ghost per se but in the truth He teaches, as long as you consider Christ as just the same as yourself you will find yourself on a sticky wicket.
YOU were not conceived in the womb of a virgin by the Holy Ghost. He had no sin, He did not have the sin nature. If He had then He could not die for your sin, He could only have died for his self.
But He DID die, He bore your sins … how then can YOU bear them … that is the revelation of truth that will bring you victory.
If you continue to strive against sin you will continue to be defeated by it. WHY? because it is not there, the devil tells you it is, so you look for it. What you will find is the memory of sin … you remember it. Suddenly all your focus is on it. and BANG you are doing it.
If you had the assurance that your sin was put on Jesus, He died, was buried …. you can show the devil where he gets off.
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Good morning LORI..... finally we are on the same day light savings time.lol
Just because you get HS does not mean you will not sin. It is a process called sanctification where your walk with Jesus, toward righteousness is gradually, slowly
taking you to Glorification.
Have a great day!
Blade
Amen....but it also means we need to be conscious to yield more and more to the HS every moment of every day.
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He didn't bear His own sins on the cross He bore OUR sins.
He didn't sin because He didn't have the sin nature. If He had the sin nature He would have had to die on His own account, but He died on our account.
Yet scripture says He learned obedience and that He was powered by the HS...what significance does that have to His nature and sinlessness?
There was a time he was an child and was treated as such for a child under the "age of Knowing" is not held accountable for their sins. From the time of twelve in the temple, he found out about his real father and had to live up to His Father's expectation. Once He was baptized and the Holy Spirit entered His mortal body, the third time period where sin (Satin) had its chance but could not temp Jesus at any stage, started.
Blade[/shadow]
Bingo...the HS came upon Him...the same HS we have in us....so why was He without sin but we are NOT if powered by the same HS?
"Do you want to be healed?"
Do you want victory over sin?
It is not found in the Holy Ghost per se but in the truth He teaches, as long as you consider Christ as just the same as yourself you will find yourself on a sticky wicket.
YOU were not conceived in the womb of a virgin by the Holy Ghost. He had no sin, He did not have the sin nature. If He had then He could not die for your sin, He could only have died for his self.
of course we are not Christ...I'm not sure how you got that from what was said, but amen.
But He DID die, He bore your sins … how then can YOU bear them … that is the revelation of truth that will bring you victory.
If you continue to strive against sin you will continue to be defeated by it. WHY? because it is not there, the devil tells you it is, so you look for it. What you will find is the memory of sin … you remember it. Suddenly all your focus is on it. and BANG you are doing it.
If you had the assurance that your sin was put on Jesus, He died, was buried …. you can show the devil where he gets off.
actually, scripture says that the law is our schoolmaster...iow's the law teaches us what sin is. Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
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So God's answer is wash your robes and make them white in the blood of the Lamb, but your answer is to go back to your old schoolmaster the law.
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So God's answer is wash your robes and make them white in the blood of the Lamb, but your answer is to go back to your old schoolmaster the law.
What? Just because the law is our schoolmaster doesn't mean we serve the law nor does it mean that the law can save. How did you get that from my response? All I was saying is that we know that we are living in sin because the law tells us what sin is...it's straight out of scripture....
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So what are you going to do about those sins? that IS your topics, what is your answer? you can have victory if you want it … you won't get it striving.
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So what are you going to do about those sins? that IS your topics, what is your answer? you can have victory if you want it … you won't get it striving.
God alone can give me victory over my sin and that is through the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit in my life. How do you gain victory over your sins? As to striving...of course we have to put effort into our salvation...Philippians 2:12-13
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I have found that often God's agenda for dealing with our sins is not the same as ours. My priorities tend to be sins that directly affect my physical being such as overeating or things hat are embarrassing such as losing my temper.
I have come to realize that even when it comes to sin, I tend to view it through selfish eyes and if God gave me the victory the way I want it, it would just feed my pride and ego.
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I have found that often God's agenda for dealing with our sins is not the same as ours. My priorities tend to be sins that directly affect my physical being such as overeating or things hat are embarrassing such as losing my temper.
I have come to realize that even when it comes to sin, I tend to view it through selfish eyes and if God gave me the victory the way I want it, it would just feed my pride and ego.
I personally tend to see sin (in myself) when there isnt' even sin there (Please do NOT see that as me saying I do not sin that is the opposite of what I am trying to say.)
I was taught that everything was my fault, that I could not do anything right...so I still tend to look at myself and even if I showed great Love see myself as a failure who sinned when there was no sin in that situation. Actually God and I talk a lot about how I see myself but that is another discussion for another day.
Good to see you here and I really appreciated your insight.
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Yes, we need to learn to not judge ourselves. If it is wrong to judge it is wrong even if it is ourselves.
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So what are you going to do about those sins? that IS your topics, what is your answer? you can have victory if you want it … you won't get it striving.
God alone can give me victory over my sin and that is through the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit in my life. How do you gain victory over your sins? As to striving...of course we have to put effort into our salvation...Philippians 2:12-13
How do you gain the victory? that's what you asked me …
I didn't, I never will, neither will you, nor will any man … that is what I would LOVE to share with you.
I DO have victory … yes it does come by the Holy Ghost but not in the way you think, it is not by His indwelling per se but by His leading us into truth. It is by REVELATION
You have to SEE sin carried away at the cross … I assure you there is no other victory than this. If you will grasp it, receive it, rejoice over it, give thanks for it, testify to it, it will come to pass in reality.
You are trying to achieve something that has already been achieved for you. The answer is outside of yourself.
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So what are you going to do about those sins? that IS your topics, what is your answer? you can have victory if you want it … you won't get it striving.
God alone can give me victory over my sin and that is through the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit in my life. How do you gain victory over your sins? As to striving...of course we have to put effort into our salvation...Philippians 2:12-13
How do you gain the victory? that's what you asked me …
I didn't, I never will, neither will you, nor will any man … that is what I would LOVE to share with you.
I DO have victory … yes it does come by the Holy Ghost but not in the way you think, it is not by His indwelling per se but by His leading us into truth. It is by REVELATION
You have to SEE sin carried away at the cross … I assure you there is no other victory than this. If you will grasp it, receive it, rejoice over it, give thanks for it, testify to it, it will come to pass in reality.
You are trying to achieve something that has already been achieved for you. The answer is outside of yourself.
I don't know about you, but Romans 837 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
means a lot to me and my life and all that He has asked of me.
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I concur, Lori.Great posts.
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I concur, Lori.Great posts.
yep
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I concur, Lori.Great posts.
yep
Good.
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I concur, Lori.Great posts.
yep
Good.
;D
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I concur, Lori.Great posts.
yep
Good.
;D
:(