+- +-

+- User

Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
 
 
 
Forgot your password?

+-Stats ezBlock

Members
Total Members: 123
Latest: elinaoi
New This Month: 1
New This Week: 1
New Today: 0
Stats
Total Posts: 20520
Total Topics: 955
Most Online Today: 522
Most Online Ever: 771
(July 30, 2019, 01:13:39 am)
Users Online
Members: 2
Guests: 76
Total: 78

Author Topic: Tyndale's Translation of II Thessalonians 2: 3-8 and Ekklesia  (Read 1735 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Bernard Pyron

  • Guest
Tyndale's Translation of II Thessalonians 2: 3-8 and Ekklesia
« on: January 04, 2019, 09:57:47 am »
Tyndale's Translation of II Thessalonians 2: 3-8 and of Ekklesia
Bernard Pyron

William Tyndale has credibility as a lone translator of the Textus Receptus Greek of Erasmus.  Tyndale also has credibility as a Remnant leader of the Reformation who wrote in the English of the 16th century, which we can mostly understand.

I posted a study here on Tyndale's translation of Oikonomia, and pointed out that the Catholic English New Testament of Wycliffe  of about 1382, was the Old English spelling "dispensacioun."  But Tyndale translated Oikonomia as  office, ministration and ordinance in I Corinthians 9: 17,  Ephesians 1: 10. Ephesians 3: 2 and in Colossians  1: 25.

Then Theodore Beza, a Calvinist leader, returned to the translation of Oikonomia as dispensation.  The Geneva Bible Committee followed Beza and used dispensation for Oikonomia. We find that while Wycliffe in his Catholic English New Testament used the Old English spelling of Chirche, Tyndale broke with Catholic tradition and used Congregation for ekklesia consistently.

Here is the King James Version for II Thessalonians 2: 3-8:

"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day
shall not come, unless there
come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped;
so that he as God sits in the temple of God, showing
himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that when I was yet with you, I told
you these things?

And now you know what withholds, that he might be revealed
in his time. For the mystery of iniquity does already work: only he who now lets
will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that wicked be revealed, whom the Lord
shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy
with the brightness of his coming..."

II Thessalonians 2: 7 is translated differently in the King James Version than in Tyndale's 1534 New Testament. Tyndale says

Here is William Tyndale's 1534 translation of II Thessalonians 2: 3-8:

"Let no man deceive you by any means, for the Lord comes not, unless there come
a departing first, and that sinful man be revealed,
the son of perdition which is an
adversary, and is exalted above all that is called
God, or that is worshipped: so that
he shall sit as God in the temple of God, and show
himself as God. Remember ye
not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these
things?

And now you know what withholds, that he might be revealed at his time.
For the mystery of that iniquity
does he already work, which only locks until it be
taken out of the way. And then shall that wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the appearance of
his coming..."

The Tyndale says New Testament or II Thessalonians 2: 3-8  says  "For the mystery of that iniquity
does he already work, which only locks until it be
taken out of the way."

But the King James says "For the mystery of iniquity does already work: only he who now lets
will let, until he be taken out of the way."

Tyndale's translation does not include a restrainer in II Thessalonians 2: 3-8 as does the King James Version.

Letteth" is from The Greek kateko, Strong's Exhaustive Concordance Number 2722, "to hold down, withhold..." Letteth can mean to restrain. But Tyndale translates it as "locks," meaning to lock in place that takeover of the temple of God in the believer by the sinful man.

In his writings Tyndale explains that the anti-Christ is not a single individual but is a present danger to Christians, since it is not something that is always in the future. The dispensationalist one man anti-Christ is to come in the future.

Lets see what the Geneva Bible says for II Thessalonians 2: 7, "For the mysterie of iniquitie doeth already worke: onely he which nowe withholdeth, shall let till he be taken out of the way."

The Geneva Bible translation group changed Tyndale's translation of II Thessalonians 2: 7 and the King James Committee followed the Geneva Bible.

There is also a significant  difference between the King James translation for ekklesia and that of the Tyndale New Testament.

John Wyclife, of England,  translated the Latin word ecclesiam into chirche  - in old English spelling.  Wycliffe did not have the Textus Receptus Greek test that Tyndale used, but Wycliffe used the

But then William Tyndale in his 1526 New Testament translated ekklesia as congregation, except for Acts 14: 13 and Acts 19: 37 where he used churche, meaning a pagan place of worship. Tyndale broke with Catholic tradition and used congregation for ekklesia something which might have contributed to his being strangled at the stake by the Catholics.

And after the death of John Calvin, Theodore Beza in 1556 returned to the use of church to translate ekklesia - and the Geneva Bible followed him, using church instead of congregation. Beza returned to the Catholic Capital C Church translation of ekklesia as chirche.

I Peter 5: 2-3 says "Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
3. Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock."

In the Catholic Church the clergy class ruled over the congregations like "lords over God's heritage," controlling in detail the doctrines followed by the people under them. This is what is meant by the Capital C Church.

Any doctrine is established by the original meaning of the Hebrew or Greek words used to express that doctrine. A translation into English should not change that doctrine. Strong's Exhaustive Concordance defines ekklesia, number 1577, as "a calling out, i.e. (to) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation..."

See: http://www.christianassemblies.co/in...icle&article=1

"The word "church" was used by Theodore Beza in 1556, a Protestant, who followed John Calvin at Geneva, Switzerland. As a Presbyterian, Beza believed in the idea of a catholic church and its hierarchical form of government and therefore chose to support this false concept by using the word "church" instead of "assembly." The reason is obvious in that the use of the word "congregation" or "assembly" would not support his church's hierarchical form of church government. William Whittingham's Testament of 1557 followed Beza's usage of "church" and was actually the first edition of the Geneva Bible and was a revision of the Tyndale New Testament."

The Geneva and King James translations consistently use church for ekklesia. Congregation has a meaning much closer to the meaning of ekklesia, as a meeting, assembly or congregation, than does church which the Oxford English Dictionary reveals. See: http://civ.icelord.net/read.php?f=3&i=63650&t=63650&v=f

"CHURCH: FORMS: (a) cirice, cyrice, chiriche, churiche, chereche, CIRCE, cyrce, chyrce, cirke, etc., etc."

"...there is now a general
agreement among scholars in referring it to the Greek word, properly kurion adj. 'of the Lord, dominicum, dominical' (f. Kurios lord), which
occurs, from the 3rd century at least, used substantively (sc. doma, or the like) = 'house of the Lord.." But the early use of Kurios was perhaps to a pagan house of worship."

The Oxford English Dictionary mentions the Greek goddess circe, and also says in caps in its list of spellings of church, the word CIRCE. The Catholic Encyclopedia lists circe as one spelling of church, but does not mention a possible origin of circe from the Greek goddess circe.

"The.... circus, and a Gothic word kйlikn 'tower, upper chamber' (app. originally
Gaulish) have both been proposed (the latter suggested by the Alemannic chilihha), but are set aside as untenable; "

Early meanings for cirice, chiriche, churiche, chereche, or CIRCE may have been rejected by the churches because of the pagan implications of these meanings.

The churches much prefer the definition of church as Body of Christ than any of the pagan implications attached to the earlier use of this word in various spellings. But ekklesia is a common noun and any word equating to Body of Christ, Saints, the Elect or Redeemed Israel would be a Proper Noun and capitalized. So if Church becomes defined as a proper noun, then it should be in caps.

While the Geneva Bible and the King James consistently use dispensation for oikonomía, Tyndale does not use dispensation at all in any of the texts where the Greek oikonomía appears.  Yet the earlier Wycliffe English Catholic New Testament of 1382, translated into Middle English from the Latin Vulgate, consistently used dispensacioun.

The question is, to what extent was the use of chirche or church for ekklesia, dispensation for Oikonomía and kateko in II Thessalonians 2: 7 as restrainer rather than as locks in place was Catholic doctrine?













Share on Facebook Share on Twitter

Funny Funny x 1 View List

bernardpyron

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Moderator
  • Jr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 71
  • Karma: +1010/-0
  • Referrals: 0
There are typing mistakes in the above.

 William Tyndale has credibility as the lone translator of the Textus Receptus Greek of Erasmus.

The Geneva Bible and the King James Version made some use of as much as 80 percent of the Tyndale New Testament's verse wordings, and sometimes the exact Tyndale verse wordings are used in the Geneva Bible and in the King James.

See: http://www.tyndale.org/tsj03/mansbridge.html

"It will be seen that in these nine chapters more than 83% of the words in the Geneva Version were taken direct from Tyndale, and more than 81% of the words in the King James Version. I believe this sample is statistically valid for the whole New Testament."

Tyndale's credibility  in translating the Textus Receptus into English is shown in the use of his English word choices and sentence structures by the committees that created the Geneva Bible and the King James Version. Remember that Tyndale was one man inspired by God, and he was then part of a very, very small remnant.

Look at: http://www1.cbn.com/churchan…/the-kjv-a-lasting-monument-to-

Tyndale wanted the boy who “driveth the plough” – to know Scripture as well as the priest who presided over a church.

But the Roman Catholic Church made it a crime to translate the Bible into the common languages. The Bible of the Catholic Church - The Vulgate - was in Latin, which the common people did not understand - the priest class was trained to read Latin.

And William Tyndale, the remnant Reformation leader who wrote in 16th century English, defied the Roman Catholic Church - the Capital C Church - and apparently believed in the doctrine of the priesthood of the believer (I Peter 2: 1-5). He thought that God made all those who have faith and have been born again by the Holy spirit were led by God to become ministers of the Gospel of Christ.

See also: http://www.tyndale.org/tsj03/mansbridge.html

"The Percentage of Words in the Geneva and King James Versions taken from Tyndale's translation"

In this study nine chapters of the Bible were looked at:
Genesis 13, 1 Samuel 8, Deuteronomy 8, Matthew 3, Acts 25, Romans 13, 1 Corinthians 5, James 4, and Revelation 20.

"It will be seen that in these nine chapters more than 83% of the words in the Geneva Version were taken direct from Tyndale, and more than 81% of the words in the King James Version. I believe this sample is statistically valid for the whole New Testament and those books of the Old Testament that Tyndale translated, within a margin of possible error of between 2 and 3 per cent."

He is talking about the English words used by Tyndale in his 1524 Translation of the Bible.

This sites shows examples of the exact verse wordings of Matthew 5, 1-16 in the Tyndale, Geneva, and King James Versions.

This shows that the Geneva and King James Bibles use the exact same wordings for Matthew 5: 1-16 as used by Tyndale.
Tyndale also has credibility as a Remnant leader of the Reformation who wrote in the English of the 16th century, which we can mostly understand.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 11:25:18 am by bernardpyron »

patrick jane

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12470
  • Karma: +1010/-0
  • Research Jesus Christ - Research Flat Earth
  • Location: Homeless in God's Flat Earth
  • Referrals: 41
    • Theology Forums
Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


Copyright Disclaimer: All audio and music belongs to the owner/creator. This is a non-profit. Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.

patrick jane

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12470
  • Karma: +1010/-0
  • Research Jesus Christ - Research Flat Earth
  • Location: Homeless in God's Flat Earth
  • Referrals: 41
    • Theology Forums
Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


Copyright Disclaimer: All audio and music belongs to the owner/creator. This is a non-profit. Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
3 Replies
11183 Views
Last post October 29, 2020, 01:40:29 pm
by patrick jane
2 Replies
3147 Views
Last post February 15, 2019, 04:55:43 pm
by Bladerunner
0 Replies
1513 Views
Last post April 01, 2020, 09:07:04 pm
by Bladerunner

+-Recent Topics

Dreams - Post 'Em If You Got "Em by patrick jane
December 04, 2020, 11:58:48 pm

Scriptures - Verse Of The Day and Discussion by Chaplain Mark Schmidt
December 04, 2020, 11:21:55 pm

Trump Historic Tweets - The Best President In American History by patrick jane
December 04, 2020, 10:06:11 pm

Politics Today by patrick jane
December 04, 2020, 10:05:49 pm

Re: Trump by patrick jane
December 04, 2020, 10:05:16 pm

Re: Politics Today by patrick jane
December 04, 2020, 10:05:04 pm

The fearless evangelist by patrick jane
December 04, 2020, 09:49:08 pm

Christianity Today Magazine - December 2020 by patrick jane
December 04, 2020, 09:48:36 pm

Your Favorite Music, Images and Memes by patrick jane
December 04, 2020, 09:33:54 pm

T. L. Osborn by Billy Evmur
December 04, 2020, 08:16:46 pm

LION OF JUDAH VIDEOS by patrick jane
December 04, 2020, 05:38:17 pm

ANTIFA and BLM - THE WORST OF AMERICA by patrick jane
December 04, 2020, 01:42:28 pm

Cultural Marxism and the Decline of the West - ROBERT SEPEHR by patrick jane
December 04, 2020, 01:40:32 pm

Democrats Try To "FIX" The 2020 Election - Fake Ballots by patrick jane
December 04, 2020, 01:40:13 pm

2020 Election Took Place Under Trump-Declared “National Emergency” ELECTION DAY TRAP by patrick jane
December 04, 2020, 01:39:55 pm

Creepy Joe Biden by patrick jane
December 04, 2020, 01:39:40 pm

Q Anon by patrick jane
December 04, 2020, 01:37:51 pm

legitimay of Biden's win by patrick jane
December 04, 2020, 01:37:11 pm