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Author Topic: On Dragon Speak - The Dialectic  (Read 1318 times)

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bernardpyron

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On Dragon Speak - The Dialectic
« on: January 15, 2019, 11:41:15 am »
On Dragon Speak - The Dialectic
Bernard Pyron

Revelation 13: 11 says the second beast has two horns like a lamb, but speaks like a dragon. "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."

A lamb has two horns? How does the dragon speak? In Genesis 3 the "serpent" "was more subtle than any beast in the field," and he used the dialectic on Eve, saying in effect lets talk about you eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. "Lets have a dialog." "And come to a consensus."

Satan used Dragon Speak on Eve in Genesis3: 1-6 to fix her obedience to God: "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 2. And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3. But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5. For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. 6. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat."

The big mistake that Eve made was to enter into a dialog with Satan. When Christ was tempted by Satan (Matthew 4: 4-10), he did not dialog with him, but answered "It is written," citing absolute truths from scripture. So Satan was defeated when he tried to work the dialectic on Jesus Christ.

Genesis 3:1-6 shows that Dragon Speak - which is the dialectic - depends upon a dialogue being established in a conversation.

God's way of communicating has always been the didactic, not the dialectic. When Satan tempted Christ in Matthew 4: 3-11, the dialectic didn't work on Jesus. It didn't move him one inch off his absolute truth. He answered the devil with the didactic, "It is written" (Matthew 4: 10).

Then in John 8 the Pharisees tried to use the dialectic on Jesus and that did not work too well either.

"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32. And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33. They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?"  John 8: 31-33

" I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. 38. I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. 39. They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. "  John 8: 37-39

Christ is engaged in  a dialogue with the Pharisees, but Christ is teaching them the Truth of his Gospel, which they oppose, by saying that Abraham is their father.

Here, Christ is stating the thesis, that is, his Gospel.  And the Pharisees are opposing that thesis by the anti-thesis, which is that Abraham is their physical father.

Finally in John 8: 43-45 Christ says to the Pharisees, " Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not."

Here the Absolute Truth was Christ standing before them, and Christ was doing a dialogue with them. The Pharisees were opposing Christ as the Absolute Truth  before them, and opposing him in arguing for their old belief system which dealt with that which is merely physical.  Christ was talking to them about that which is spiritual. But they could not understand him,  Their arguments did not change Christ's position.

Marx and then Freud decided that there is no God and Marx began to say there is no absolute truth and no absolute morality. Everything is an opinion. Remember the "Hegelian dialectic?" Remember "dialectical materialism" in Marxism?

Marx said "In the eyes of the dialectical philosophy, nothing is established for all time, nothing is absolute or sacred."

As a young intellectual, Marx as an athiest was a member of the  Young Hegelians Movement. This is where Marx got his interest in the Hegelian dialectic, which was a modern German philosophical takeoff from the dialectic of Greek philosophy before the time of Christ.

The young Marx was influenced strongly by the Jacobins of the French Revolution, who were the guys who sent so many to the Guillotine.

In the Soviet Union the Marxist version of the Hegelian Dialectic was made into a propaganda weapon. Then, the German Frankfurt School mixed Marx with Freud and later with American social and personality psychology, while keeping the dialectic as the basis of Transformational Marxism.

There is a text in the New Testament which, in the Greek, mentions the dialectic. This is I Timothy 6: 20-21.

"O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen"

The key part in Greek says "και αντιθεσεις της ψευδωνυμου γνωσεως,or "and anti-thesis of falsely called knowledge."

αντιθεσεις, or anti-thesis, is a technical term in the early Greek philosophy of the διαλεκτική, or dialectic, before the time of Christ.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic

"Dialectic (also dialectics and the dialectical method), from Ancient Greek διαλεκτική, is a method of argument.....The word dialectic originated in ancient Greece, and was made popular by Plato in the Socratic dialogues."

"In classical philosophy, dialectic (Greek: διαλεκτική) is a form of reasoning based upon dialogue of arguments and counter-arguments, advocating propositions (theses) and counter-propositions (antitheses)."

"Aristotle said that it was the pre-Socratic philosopher Zeno of Elea who invented dialectic, of which the dialogues of Plato are the examples of the Socratic dialectical method."

The dialectic is a form of deception and the Marxist version of the Hegelian dialectic has been developed into a belief and attitude change procedure, which also infiltrated the major institutions,including the churches, in the 20th century.

In Marxism the dialectic is used to overthrow absolute Truth and absolute Morality.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thesis...sis,_synthesis

"Hegel used the "thesis-antithesis-synthesis" idea only once, and he attributed the terminology to Immanuel Kant. The terminology was largely developed by Johann Gottlieb Fichte, also an advocate of the philosophy identified as German idealism. "

"Karl Marx (1818-1883) and Friedrich Engels (1820-1895) adopted and extended the triad, especially in Marx's The Poverty of Philosophy (1847). Here, in Chapter 2, Marx is obsessed by the word "thesis". It can be said to form an important part of the basis for the Marxist theory..."

The Marxist version of the dialectic - which is atheistic and without morality - is common to both the contemporary American political Left in its Marxism, and to dialogue within Christianity, especially in debate about Church theologies.

I got booted out of Talk Jesus for posting quotes from Dean Gotcher on the Christian use of the dialectic.  Dispensationalists react strongly against teachings about the use of the dialectic.   I Timothy 6: 20-21 with its use of the Greek word αντιθεσεις, or anti-theseis  is often  rejected by dispensationalists as a warning against the use of the dialectic by Paul, and they may argue that the King James Version translation of I Timothy 6: 20-21 is not a warning against use of the dialectic.

On https://biblehub.com/greek/477.htm    αντιθεσεις,  Strong's number 477, means "a proposition, tenet, opinion advanced by one party against another;  opposition."

Marx is said to have "turned Hegel on his head" in making the dialectic of Hegel atheistic and without morality.

The dialectic  as a procedure for winning arguments or changing the attitudes and beliefs of people depends upon establishing a dialogue.  The opposition argument, or anti-thesis,  argues in direct opposition to a position,which for Hegel is called the thesis. The opposition to the thesis is the anti-thesis. There are many specific tactics of the dialectic.

Dean Gotcher says that now in the Christian churches it is like the time right before the Flood of Noah. Gotcher then says God does not speak into the pre-flood dialectic mind.

On http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/brainwashing/dialectic-gotcher.htm
Dean Gotcher says "God cannot speak into the pre-flood, Tower of Babel, Sodom and Gomorrah, dialectic mind..."

Gotcher teaches that "The dialectic is man thinking through his
feelings. This is the reason God flooded the world and will judge the
world again. "And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also
in the days of the Son of man." (Luke 17:26)

He is saying that we are entering a time now which is similar to that time mentioned in Luke 17: 26-28 during the Pre-Flood, Tower of Babel and Sodom and Gomarrah  time periods  when people had a form of the dialectic mind.

    O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane [and] vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen." 1 Timothy 6:20-21

See: https://www.authorityresearch.com/Snippets/Reasoning-Deductive.html

Dean Gotcher quotes I Timothy 6: 20 in the King James and makes a comment:  "Avoid the oppositions (antithesis) of so-called science―the antithesis of so-named gnosis (knowing,) και αντιθεσεις της ψευδωνυμου γνωσεως,―whereby those who use this process loose their faith.  What is of concern to me is that the "church" is using the latter form of reasoning, the one Paul warned us about."

"But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ." 2 Corinthians 11:3



   






   


   
   
   
   
   
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Re: On Dragon Speak - The Dialectic
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2019, 10:38:26 pm »
On Dragon Speak - The Dialectic
Bernard Pyron

Revelation 13: 11 says the second beast has two horns like a lamb, but speaks like a dragon. "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."

A lamb has two horns? How does the dragon speak? In Genesis 3 the "serpent" "was more subtle than any beast in the field," and he used the dialectic on Eve, saying in effect lets talk about you eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. "Lets have a dialog." "And come to a consensus."

Satan used Dragon Speak on Eve in Genesis3: 1-6 to fix her obedience to God: "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 2. And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3. But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5. For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. 6. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat."

The big mistake that Eve made was to enter into a dialog with Satan. When Christ was tempted by Satan (Matthew 4: 4-10), he did not dialog with him, but answered "It is written," citing absolute truths from scripture. So Satan was defeated when he tried to work the dialectic on Jesus Christ.

Genesis 3:1-6 shows that Dragon Speak - which is the dialectic - depends upon a dialogue being established in a conversation.

God's way of communicating has always been the didactic, not the dialectic. When Satan tempted Christ in Matthew 4: 3-11, the dialectic didn't work on Jesus. It didn't move him one inch off his absolute truth. He answered the devil with the didactic, "It is written" (Matthew 4: 10).

Then in John 8 the Pharisees tried to use the dialectic on Jesus and that did not work too well either.

"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32. And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33. They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?"  John 8: 31-33

" I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. 38. I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. 39. They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. "  John 8: 37-39

Christ is engaged in  a dialogue with the Pharisees, but Christ is teaching them the Truth of his Gospel, which they oppose, by saying that Abraham is their father.

Here, Christ is stating the thesis, that is, his Gospel.  And the Pharisees are opposing that thesis by the anti-thesis, which is that Abraham is their physical father.

Finally in John 8: 43-45 Christ says to the Pharisees, " Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not."

Here the Absolute Truth was Christ standing before them, and Christ was doing a dialogue with them. The Pharisees were opposing Christ as the Absolute Truth  before them, and opposing him in arguing for their old belief system which dealt with that which is merely physical.  Christ was talking to them about that which is spiritual. But they could not understand him,  Their arguments did not change Christ's position.

Marx and then Freud decided that there is no God and Marx began to say there is no absolute truth and no absolute morality. Everything is an opinion. Remember the "Hegelian dialectic?" Remember "dialectical materialism" in Marxism?

Marx said "In the eyes of the dialectical philosophy, nothing is established for all time, nothing is absolute or sacred."

As a young intellectual, Marx as an athiest was a member of the  Young Hegelians Movement. This is where Marx got his interest in the Hegelian dialectic, which was a modern German philosophical takeoff from the dialectic of Greek philosophy before the time of Christ.

The young Marx was influenced strongly by the Jacobins of the French Revolution, who were the guys who sent so many to the Guillotine.

In the Soviet Union the Marxist version of the Hegelian Dialectic was made into a propaganda weapon. Then, the German Frankfurt School mixed Marx with Freud and later with American social and personality psychology, while keeping the dialectic as the basis of Transformational Marxism.

There is a text in the New Testament which, in the Greek, mentions the dialectic. This is I Timothy 6: 20-21.

"O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen"

The key part in Greek says "και αντιθεσεις της ψευδωνυμου γνωσεως,or "and anti-thesis of falsely called knowledge."

αντιθεσεις, or anti-thesis, is a technical term in the early Greek philosophy of the διαλεκτική, or dialectic, before the time of Christ.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic

"Dialectic (also dialectics and the dialectical method), from Ancient Greek διαλεκτική, is a method of argument.....The word dialectic originated in ancient Greece, and was made popular by Plato in the Socratic dialogues."

"In classical philosophy, dialectic (Greek: διαλεκτική) is a form of reasoning based upon dialogue of arguments and counter-arguments, advocating propositions (theses) and counter-propositions (antitheses)."

"Aristotle said that it was the pre-Socratic philosopher Zeno of Elea who invented dialectic, of which the dialogues of Plato are the examples of the Socratic dialectical method."

The dialectic is a form of deception and the Marxist version of the Hegelian dialectic has been developed into a belief and attitude change procedure, which also infiltrated the major institutions,including the churches, in the 20th century.

In Marxism the dialectic is used to overthrow absolute Truth and absolute Morality.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thesis...sis,_synthesis

"Hegel used the "thesis-antithesis-synthesis" idea only once, and he attributed the terminology to Immanuel Kant. The terminology was largely developed by Johann Gottlieb Fichte, also an advocate of the philosophy identified as German idealism. "

"Karl Marx (1818-1883) and Friedrich Engels (1820-1895) adopted and extended the triad, especially in Marx's The Poverty of Philosophy (1847). Here, in Chapter 2, Marx is obsessed by the word "thesis". It can be said to form an important part of the basis for the Marxist theory..."

The Marxist version of the dialectic - which is atheistic and without morality - is common to both the contemporary American political Left in its Marxism, and to dialogue within Christianity, especially in debate about Church theologies.

I got booted out of Talk Jesus for posting quotes from Dean Gotcher on the Christian use of the dialectic.  Dispensationalists react strongly against teachings about the use of the dialectic.   I Timothy 6: 20-21 with its use of the Greek word αντιθεσεις, or anti-theseis  is often  rejected by dispensationalists as a warning against the use of the dialectic by Paul, and they may argue that the King James Version translation of I Timothy 6: 20-21 is not a warning against use of the dialectic.

On https://biblehub.com/greek/477.htm    αντιθεσεις,  Strong's number 477, means "a proposition, tenet, opinion advanced by one party against another;  opposition."

Marx is said to have "turned Hegel on his head" in making the dialectic of Hegel atheistic and without morality.

The dialectic  as a procedure for winning arguments or changing the attitudes and beliefs of people depends upon establishing a dialogue.  The opposition argument, or anti-thesis,  argues in direct opposition to a position,which for Hegel is called the thesis. The opposition to the thesis is the anti-thesis. There are many specific tactics of the dialectic.

Dean Gotcher says that now in the Christian churches it is like the time right before the Flood of Noah. Gotcher then says God does not speak into the pre-flood dialectic mind.

On http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/brainwashing/dialectic-gotcher.htm
Dean Gotcher says "God cannot speak into the pre-flood, Tower of Babel, Sodom and Gomorrah, dialectic mind..."

Gotcher teaches that "The dialectic is man thinking through his
feelings. This is the reason God flooded the world and will judge the
world again. "And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also
in the days of the Son of man." (Luke 17:26)

He is saying that we are entering a time now which is similar to that time mentioned in Luke 17: 26-28 during the Pre-Flood, Tower of Babel and Sodom and Gomarrah  time periods  when people had a form of the dialectic mind.

As usual, you have again mistranslated God's WORD...... The Dragon (Satan) as the Lamb (comes to earth as a lamb (like Jesus) and He will have many follow him as the Messiah. When the second beast comes out of the earth (false Prophet, The pope), He will evangelize for the Dragon and a one world religion. The world will respond in like as most of the 7 billion people will convert over.

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
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Re: On Dragon Speak - The Dialectic
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2020, 03:15:52 pm »
lol
Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


Copyright Disclaimer: All audio and music belongs to the owner/creator. This is a non-profit. Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.

patrick jane

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Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


Copyright Disclaimer: All audio and music belongs to the owner/creator. This is a non-profit. Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.

 

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