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Author Topic: Dispensationalism Disagrees With Several New Testament Scriptures  (Read 1779 times)

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bernardpyron

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Dispensationalism Disagrees With Several New Testament Scriptures
Bernard Pyron

I Timothy 6: 3-4 says "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome
words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine
which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but
doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy,
strife, railings, evil surmisings."   "Strifes of words is from logomachia.

This is a significant text, because what Paul is saying is that those
who get off into doctrines that were not taught by Christ and the
Apostles tend to get into logomachia, or strifes of words." Lets see
what Strong's says about logomachia.

Logomachia is number 3055 in Strong's and is said to mean
"disputations, strife of words." Logomachia might be translated as
"word fights."
I Timothy 6: 3-4, where Paul uses logomachia, is in the same chapter - I Timothy 6 - where Paul briefly mentions in Greek, the word αντιθεσεις, or anti-thesis, which brings up a type of argument which Paul warns that should be avoided. That is, the "anti-thesis of falsely called knowledge" Paul says to avoid.

An αντιθεσεις, or anti-thesis, is a technical term in the early Greek philosophy of the διαλεκτική, or dialectic, before the time of Christ. The dialectic is a way of making an argument by use of a thesis which opposes and attacks a antithesis, and an ongoing dialectic involves arguments and counter arguments. The Truth in scripture can be seen as the thesis while a false doctrine is the anti-thesis.

"Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."  II Timothy 3: 7

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but
after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having
itching ears;   And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be
turned unto fables."  II Timothy 4: 3-4

John 10: 16, Romans 12: 4-5 and Ephesians 4: 4 deal with the doctrine that God has one group of his elect, not two groups as dispensationalism postulates. Romans 10: 12 and Galatians 3: 28, as well as Ephesians 2: 11-15  focus on the doctrine that there is a unity of all who are in faith, regardless of their genetics, that is, that there is a unity between believing Gentiles and believing Jews. This contradicts dispensationalim's postulate that God has two separate peoples Old Covenant Israel and the Church. Romans 2: 28-29 is a little more subtle, but these two verses imply that there is a transformation for Jews who come to faith in Christ, and for them things of the flesh, are no longer important but things of the Spirit are important. This is not in line with the dispensationalist system, which apparently continues to honor the physical bloodline from Abraham.

Romans 9: 6-8 says that not all of those of the physical bloodline are the children of God, that is, of the elect, and that the children only of the flesh, that is of the bloodline, are not the children of God. Then I Corinthians 10: 18 affirms again that there is a group under the Old Covenant who are of the Bloodline but are not God's children.

Romans 11: 17-20 says that those of the physical Bloodline who were in unbelief are cut off, contradicting  the dispensationalist position that all of the Bloodline are of the elect. from their interpretation  of Romans 11: 26 that "all Israel shall be saved" means all of the bloodline, even though  Paul in Romans and in Romans 11 teaches that the elect are made up of saved Jews (the remnant of Israel, Romans 11: 1-5) and saved Gentiles.

II Corinthians 3: 6-11, Hebrews 10: 9, and Hebrews 8: 13 all say that the Old Covenant was done away with, disagreeing with a fundamental assumption of dispensationalism, that the Old Covenant continues with its Old Covenant people, along with the Church.

Galatians 3: 3, 16-17, 27-29 say that God decides who is saved by faith and not by that which is physical, Paul says in Galatians 3: 14 'That the blessings of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. " "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither  male nor female : for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

   
   
   
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 06:59:33 pm by bernardpyron »

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Bladerunner

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Dispensationalism Disagrees With Several New Testament Scriptures
Bernard Pyron

I Timothy 6: 3-4 says "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome
words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine
which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but
doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy,
strife, railings, evil surmisings."   "Strifes of words is from logomachia.

This is a significant text, because what Paul is saying is that those
who get off into doctrines that were not taught by Christ and the
Apostles tend to get into logomachia, or strifes of words." Lets see
what Strong's says about logomachia.

Logomachia is number 3055 in Strong's and is said to mean
"disputations, strife of words." Logomachia might be translated as
"word fights."
I Timothy 6: 3-4, where Paul uses logomachia, is in the same chapter - I Timothy 6 - where Paul briefly mentions in Greek, the word αντιθεσεις, or anti-thesis, which brings up a type of argument which Paul warns that should be avoided. That is, the "anti-thesis of falsely called knowledge" Paul says to avoid.

An αντιθεσεις, or anti-thesis, is a technical term in the early Greek philosophy of the διαλεκτική, or dialectic, before the time of Christ. The dialectic is a way of making an argument by use of a thesis which opposes and attacks a antithesis, and an ongoing dialectic involves arguments and counter arguments. The Truth in scripture can be seen as the thesis while a false doctrine is the anti-thesis.

"Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."  II Timothy 3: 7

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but
after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having
itching ears;   And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be
turned unto fables."  II Timothy 4: 3-4

John 10: 16, Romans 12: 4-5 and Ephesians 4: 4 deal with the doctrine that God has one group of his elect, not two groups as dispensationalism postulates. Romans 10: 12 and Galatians 3: 28, as well as Ephesians 2: 11-15  focus on the doctrine that there is a unity of all who are in faith, regardless of their genetics, that is, that there is a unity between believing Gentiles and believing Jews. This contradicts dispensationalim's postulate that God has two separate peoples Old Covenant Israel and the Church. Romans 2: 28-29 is a little more subtle, but these two verses imply that there is a transformation for Jews who come to faith in Christ, and for them things of the flesh, are no longer important but things of the Spirit are important. This is not in line with the dispensationalist system, which apparently continues to honor the physical bloodline from Abraham.

Romans 9: 6-8 says that not all of those of the physical bloodline are the children of God, that is, of the elect, and that the children only of the flesh, that is of the bloodline, are not the children of God. Then I Corinthians 10: 18 affirms again that there is a group under the Old Covenant who are of the Bloodline but are not God's children.

Romans 11: 17-20 says that those of the physical Bloodline who were in unbelief are cut off, contradicting  the dispensationalist position that all of the Bloodline are of the elect. from their interpretation  of Romans 11: 26 that "all Israel shall be saved" means all of the bloodline, even though  Paul in Romans and in Romans 11 teaches that the elect are made up of saved Jews (the remnant of Israel, Romans 11: 1-5) and saved Gentiles.

II Corinthians 3: 6-11, Hebrews 10: 9, and Hebrews 8: 13 all say that the Old Covenant was done away with, disagreeing with a fundamental assumption of dispensationalism, that the Old Covenant continues with its Old Covenant people, along with the Church.

Galatians 3: 3, 16-17, 27-29 say that God decides who is saved by faith and not by that which is physical, Paul says in Galatians 3: 14 'That the blessings of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. " "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither  male nor female : for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

Don't blame dispensationalism for your disbelief. Romans has nothing to do with the Nation of  Israel that was partially blinded. It is the continuing gospel of Jesus Christ that is for all true believers, both Gentile and Jew.

If you will read Isaiah, you will start to understand that God's prophecy for Israel (the nation) is real and will happen.

Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
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bernardpyron

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Many people who are critical of dispensationalism - and see that many New Testament scriptures  do not agree with it -  were once dispensationalists and woke up.  But when I was high school age in Texas I went to the local Southern Baptist Church for a time.  That preacher did not teach dispensationalism.  What he taught was  more like Calvinism.   I know this may suggest that I was high school age about a hundred years ago.  It was a time before the sixties when W.A. Crisswell and other dispensationalists took over the Southern Baptist Convention.

The point is that dispensationalists seem to believe that because so many church members in the evangelical denominations are fervent believers in dispensationalism, that the theology must be correct.   But in my lifetime there was a time before the sixties when the  Southern Baptists were not all dispensationalists.  Those who were not dispensationalists still followed the Reformation theology that defined the Southern Baptist beliefs in their earlier history, for example, during the Great Awakening revivals of the 18th century.

I think that almost any one familiar with the New Testament and also with the doctrines of dfispensationalism - and is honest - would agree that Reformation Theology is closer to what the New Testament teaches than is dispensationalism.  The Reformation recovered justification by faith and the necessity of being born again to become a new creation by the Holy Spirit, in which there is a real change in the individual.  Dispensationalism is more focused upon "rightly dividing" such as dividing saved Jews and saved Gentiles, than it is with that transformation by the Spirit.

"Don't blame dispensationalism for your disbelief. "

This is a little ambiguous.  It could be read to say "Don't blame dispensationalism for your disbelief in the Gospel of Christ."
« Last Edit: January 13, 2019, 09:23:32 am by bernardpyron »
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Bladerunner

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Many people who are critical of dispensationalism - and see that many New Testament scriptures  do not agree with it -  were once dispensationalists and woke up.  But when I was high school age in Texas I went to the local Southern Baptist Church for a time.  That preacher did not teach dispensationalism.  What he taught was  more like Calvinism.   I know this may suggest that I was high school age about a hundred years ago.  It was a time before the sixties when W.A. Crisswell and other dispensationalists took over the Southern Baptist Convention.

The point is that dispensationalists seem to believe that because so many church members in the evangelical denominations are fervent believers in dispensationalism, that the theology must be correct.   But in my lifetime there was a time before the sixties when the  Southern Baptists were not all dispensationalists.  Those who were not dispensationalists still followed the Reformation theology that defined the Southern Baptist beliefs in their earlier history, for example, during the Great Awakening revivals of the 18th century.

I think that almost any one familiar with the New Testament and also with the doctrines of dfispensationalism - and is honest - would agree that Reformation Theology is closer to what the New Testament teaches than is dispensationalism.  The Reformation recovered justification by faith and the necessity of being born again to become a new creation by the Holy Spirit, in which there is a real change in the individual.  Dispensationalism is more focused upon "rightly dividing" such as dividing saved Jews and saved Gentiles, than it is with that transformation by the Spirit.

"Don't blame dispensationalism for your disbelief. "

This is a little ambiguous.  It could be read to say "Don't blame dispensationalism for your disbelief in the Gospel of Christ."

bernardpyron:
As you were, I was also. The Reformation theology has its own problems but that is another thread.

I am at best a leaky dispensationalist. I say that as I read the Bible literally, historically and grammatically. The word dispensation is Biblical and it is used four times in the KJV of the Bible. (1 Cor 9:17: Eph 1:10;3:2: Col 1:25). God even tells us to rightly divide the Bible in 2 Tim 2:15.

Most people change, add, delete God's WORD in order for it to agree with their world view. Many world views place the Jewish people within the Church(Bride / Body of Christ). They have for some reason decided that GOD has taken the New Covenant away from Israel and place them in the Church (Body of Christ).

God's (the Father) "chosen people" is Israel.  It does not matter how you put it; He states time and time again that He will bring Israel back. He did this 1948 when Israel declared herself a Nation.  Immediately the next day Israel was attacked from three different sides. Even though their army was virtually non-existant, God did not let her fail even though some 1900+ years earlier He had partially blinded her and dispersed her throughout the world.

Dispensation are periods of time where God's relationship with the people of earth are vastly different from one period to another. We see this in the Creation period where there was only one commandment (not to eat the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge.). Another period of dispensation followed ending at Noah's Flood. Another dispensation period followed the flood where mankind was repopulating the earth through just six people.  When God chose Jacob, called him Israel and named His sons as the tribes of Israel is the beginning of the LAW dispensational period. This period ended at the Cross and the death of Jesus Christ. This period known as the dispensation of Grace is still going and will not stop until the Church (body of Christ) is removed from this earth. Up till now we can account for five dispensational periods. Yet, does any of them tell us that Israel are now (unknown) to GOD. NO!

Let me put it this way, anyone on this earth who follows the Gospel of Jesus Christ (according to scriptures, His WORD) will be part of HIS Church spirtually until we are Raptured. This will leave semi- believers and unbelievers on earth. By the way, the generation will  (ages 20 and under)  who sees this happen will see the 2nd advent of the Lord, that is if they are are not killed first by wars, pestilences, starvation, earthquakes, weather, etc.

Those who live through Daniel's 70th week, will be judged in the sheep and goat judgement. For those Gentiles that make it through this judgement, they will repopulate the earth for 1000. There is a catch to this. Sometimes during the first hundred years, they have to accept Christ as their Savior.

Somewhere we left behind the Jewish people. NO, not really!. When the Son of Perdition/AntiChrist commits the AoD in the Holy of Holies, the  people within Jerusalem  who see this and believe in God/Jesus Christ (most asll Jewish) are to flee to the Mountains south of Jerusalem. This is in Jordan and is known as Petra. Here God protects, feeds and nourishes them until Daniel's 70th week is finished.  At the Beginning of the Millennium (after those days),  God instills HIS New Covenant (The same covenant the Church (Body of Christ))  into their Hearts as Heb 8:10; 10:16... Notice the "AFTER those DAYS" clause here.

Gentiles and Jews alike during the millennium, will still have their mortal bodies. The Church (Body of Christ),  the Tribulation Saints, the Old Testament Saints will have translated Bodies not unlike that of Jesus Christ.  Those who live during the millennium will have mortal bodies but will live forever.

Please notice, the Body of Christ is ONE, not divided Gentiles and Jews. His Church is ONE, the Bride of Christ.

As far as NOT believing, I do believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ according to scripture (1 Cor 15:1-4). I leave out nothing nor do I add nothing to His Word, the Bible (KJV).

For those old time preachers,( the ones you and I remember) stretched theology out to increase their Churches attendance. They for the most part made us believe that we were still under the dispensation of Law and if we did not obey, we would go to hell. 

I am sorry, you had a bad time but all you have to do now is realize, by removing the covenants from Israel to place them in the Gentile Church is spewing most of the same theology they did.

Might I say, one more thing about dispensations. If you correctly divide the Bible, you wind up with seven (7) dispensations from beginning (Creation) to the End (New Earth and New Heaven) which would be 7,000 years since Creation. We are now at 5,779 and counting.


Blade
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
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bernardpyron

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"He states time and time again that He will bring Israel back. He did this 1948 when Israel declared herself a Nation."

I know that the re-establishment of the nation Israel in the Middle East in 1948 is important for dispensationalism.  But the nation of Israel is under Talmudic Judaism, which is opposed to Jesus Christ and his Gospel.

And dispensationalists are fixated upon making divisions and they go way too far in making their divisions.  The New Testament teaches that the elect of God is one united people - Ephesians 2: 11-16, Romans 10: 12, Galatians 3: 28.   Dispensationalism confuses this unity in its insistence on making divisions. 

"Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne so that in eternity, '...never the twain, Israel and church, shall meet." Lewis S. Chafer, Systematic Theology (Dallas, Dallas Seminary Press, 1975), Vol. 4. pp. 315-323..

In his book, Dispensationalism (1966), Charles Ryrie says "The
essence of Dispensationalism, then, is the distinction between Israel
and the church." (page 3, "Dispensationalism")

J. Dwight Pentecost is another dispensationalist theologian who in his
book Things To Come ( 1965) says "The church
and Israel are two distinct groups with whom God has a divine plan.
The church is a mystery, unrevealed in the Old Testament. (page 193,
J. Dwight Pentecost, Things To Come, Zondervan, 1965).

But in the First Century, when Paul wrote, he did not make the same kind of division between Israel and the Church as dispensationalism makes.  Paul made a distinction between Jews and Gentiles according to their genetics and culture, but there was only one Body of Christ, made up of saved Jews and saved Gentiles.   

Dispensationalism is too focused upon literal wordings rather that on gist meanings.   You have to be careful, though, about stating gist meanings so that you are accurate. 

 On TOL yesterday I read part of a thread in which a dispensationalist was trying to argue that because Paul did not write about becoming "Born Again" in those exact words, therefore Paul did not teach being born again.   Jerry claimed that Paul in Titus 3: 4-7 in using "rebirth" showed that he agreed with John 3: 1-6 on being born again.  The Problem though is that Paul in  texts other than Titus 3: 4-7 shows his agreement with John 3: 1-6 in terms of the gist meaning of being born again, though Paul did not use that exact language.  For example, in Romans 12: 2 Paul writes about being "transformed by the renewing of your mind," by which Paul is explaining to some extent what being born again means.  Paul in  II Corinthians 5: 7 and in Galatians 6: 15 writes about becoming a new creature or new creation, which also indicates that Paul understands John 3: 1-6 and is again explaining  in part what it means to be born again.

Ephesians 2:  11-16 says a great deal about the unity of all who are born again and are of the elect of God, and implies more.

"Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12.     That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13.     But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14.     For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15.     Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16.     And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17.     And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh."

In the past, Paul says, Gentiles in Uncircumcision and without Christ were aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants.  But Gentiles can be made nigh to the commonwealth of Israel by the blood of Christ.

Nigh means close. Gentiles can be made close to Israel by the blood of Christ.  Romans 10: 12 and Galatians 3: 28 confirm and support their being made close to Israel by Christ.

"For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him." Romans 10: 12

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."  Galatians 3: 28

In Ephesians 2:  12 Paul writes about Gentiles before being  strangers from the covenants.  This implies that in Christ and by his blood Gentiles who were before strangers from the covenants are brought into the New Covenant, which Hebrews 8: 8-12 quoting Jeremiah 31: 31-34 says is for the house of Israel and the house of  Judah.

By being made a part of the commonwealth of Israel Gentiles who were before aliens from Israel, partake also of the New Covenant, with the remnant of Israel, 





« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 10:12:52 am by bernardpyron »

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"He states time and time again that He will bring Israel back. He did this 1948 when Israel declared herself a Nation."

I know that the re-establishment of the nation Israel in the Middle East in 1948 is important for dispensationalism.  But the nation of Israel is under Talmudic Judaism, which is opposed to Jesus Christ and his Gospel.

And dispensationalists are fixated upon making divisions and they go way too far in making their divisions.  The New Testament teaches that the elect of God is one united people - Ephesians 2: 11-16, Romans 10: 12, Galatians 3: 28.   Dispensationalism confuses this unity in its insistence on making divisions. 

"Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne so that in eternity, '...never the twain, Israel and church, shall meet." Lewis S. Chafer, Systematic Theology (Dallas, Dallas Seminary Press, 1975), Vol. 4. pp. 315-323..

In his book, Dispensationalism (1966), Charles Ryrie says "The
essence of Dispensationalism, then, is the distinction between Israel
and the church." (page 3, "Dispensationalism")

J. Dwight Pentecost is another dispensationalist theologian who in his
book Things To Come ( 1965) says "The church
and Israel are two distinct groups with whom God has a divine plan.
The church is a mystery, unrevealed in the Old Testament. (page 193,
J. Dwight Pentecost, Things To Come, Zondervan, 1965).

But in the First Century, when Paul wrote, he did not make the same kind of division between Israel and the Church as dispensationalism makes.  Paul made a distinction between Jews and Gentiles according to their genetics and culture, but there was only one Body of Christ, made up of saved Jews and saved Gentiles.   

Dispensationalism is too focused upon literal wordings rather that on gist meanings.   You have to be careful, though, about stating gist meanings so that you are accurate. 

 On TOL yesterday I read part of a thread in which a dispensationalist was trying to argue that because Paul did not write about becoming "Born Again" in those exact words, therefore Paul did not teach being born again.   Jerry claimed that Paul in Titus 3: 4-7 in using "rebirth" showed that he agreed with John 3: 1-6 on being born again.  The Problem though is that Paul in  texts other than Titus 3: 4-7 shows his agreement with John 3: 1-6 in terms of the gist meaning of being born again, though Paul did not use that exact language.  For example, in Romans 12: 2 Paul writes about being "transformed by the renewing of your mind," by which Paul is explaining to some extent what being born again means.  Paul in  II Corinthians 5: 7 and in Galatians 6: 15 writes about becoming a new creature or new creation, which also indicates that Paul understands John 3: 1-6 and is again explaining  in part what it means to be born again.

Ephesians 2:  11-16 says a great deal about the unity of all who are born again and are of the elect of God, and implies more.

"Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12.     That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13.     But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14.     For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15.     Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16.     And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17.     And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh."

In the past, Paul says, Gentiles in Uncircumcision and without Christ were aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants.  But Gentiles can be made nigh to the commonwealth of Israel by the blood of Christ.

Nigh means close. Gentiles can be made close to Israel by the blood of Christ.  Romans 10: 12 and Galatians 3: 28 confirm and support their being made close to Israel by Christ.

"For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him." Romans 10: 12

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."  Galatians 3: 28

In Ephesians 2:  12 Paul writes about Gentiles before being  strangers from the covenants.  This implies that in Christ and by his blood Gentiles who were before strangers from the covenants are brought into the New Covenant, which Hebrews 8: 8-12 quoting Jeremiah 31: 31-34 says is for the house of Israel and the house of  Judah.

By being made a part of the commonwealth of Israel Gentiles who were before aliens from Israel, partake also of the New Covenant, with the remnant of Israel,

bernardpyron again your are not rightly dividing the Bible???

Yes the nation of Israel is Talmudic Judaism and does not recognize Jesus Christ as their Messiah. This is the Partial Blindness ("Blindness in Part") Paul is speaking of in Rom 11:25. Not until the Fullness of the Gentiles will the Blindness be removed.

I agree with you about those that take dispensationalism a little too far, especially hyper-dispensationlist.   However, it is not reason to disregard the divisions within the Bible put there by GOD.

You said the elect are all one. YES, they are....Gentile and JEW alike.They are ONE and these people will be removed out of danger from GOD's anger, receive a translated body like that of Jesus Christ : 1 John3:2.."Dear friends, we are already Godís children, but he has not yet shown us what we will be like when Christ appears. But we do know that we will be like him, for we will see him as he really is."

When the Rapture (Harpazo) happens (The New Covenant, the grafted branch), there will NOT be one individual left on earth who believes in Jesus Christ (except maybe the 144,000....another post).  Jews and Gentiles will all be of one mind. During this Gap period of time and Daniel's 70th week, the world as we know it today will be destroyed. Not one mountain will remain, not one island will remain, not one city except maybe Jerusalem will remain.etc.

Many will die from both sides and many (both Gentile and Jew) will take Jesus as their savior having to die in HIS name as martyrs.  These people will become Tribulation Saints both Jew and Gentile.   The dispensation of Grace ended with the Harpazo yet the Gospel of Jesus Christ continues until the 2nd half of Daniel's 70th week. Then the  "Everlasting Gospel" becomes the 'de facto'  Gospel for the Millennium.

Again, at the 2nd half of Daniel's 70th week, the AoD happens and the remaining Jews in Jerusalem who have come to believe in Jesus as their messiah will flee Jerusalem for the safety provided by GOD, south in the mountains. those who do not flee will all die (2/3 of the THEN Jewish Population) Those who flee become the Remnant of Israel and GOD will instill Himself and His commands in their Hearts and minds. The New Covenant rides again.

Those 'GENTILES of the world, who survive the GAP period (up to 32 years), Daniel's 70th week (7 years) and the Sheep/Goat Judgement will also populate the earth during the millennium along with the Remnant of Israel.

The Remnant of Jews will rule Israel with Jesus. (Israel will be the same area it was when God Gave it to Abraham/Isaac and Jacob) The Apostles will judge Israel

The Tribulation Saints will serve Jesus Christ in the Temple that He rebuilds near Jeruslaem. (50 mile x 50 mile)

The Church or the Bride will Rule and Judge the Remaining Nations of the world 

Jesus will rule the earth with IRON Fist from the King David's Throne in Jerusalem. Eze 20:33.."As surely as I live, says the Sovereign LORD, I will rule over you with an iron fist in great anger and with awesome power." 

You said: "never the twain, Israel and church, shall meet."   Well, God does not say that..... Let's stick to scriptures. God does not say Israel cannot meet Gentiles. If fact, He allowed it in the OT as well as in the NT...


What I see in your post is  a way for those who have some antiSemitism in their theology to try and make it become God's Word by adding, deleting, changing, translating wrongly, etc.

So Sad.

Blade

 
1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
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bernardpyron

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"You said: "never the twain, Israel and church, shall meet."   Well, God does not say that..... Let's stick to scriptures. God does not say Israel cannot meet Gentiles. If fact, He allowed it in the OT as well as in the NT...

What I see in your post is  a way for those who have some antiSemitism in their theology to try and make it become God's Word by adding, deleting, changing, translating wrongly, etc.

So Sad."

I mentioned I Timothy 6: 20-21 in a recent post.  Here  Paul warns about the use of the dialectic and says to avoid the "oppositions of science falsely so called."  This is a translation of "αντιθεσεις της ψευδωνυμου γνωσεως," or "antitheseis  tes pseudonumou gnoseos."   Anti-thesis is a word from the early  Greek dialectic before the time of Christ.  Knowledge is a more accurate translation of gnoseos, though "falsely so called" is OK for pseudonumou.

After being on TOL for a while I noticed that some of the dispensationalists over there were using the dialectic as Paul describes it here.

Marx is claimed to have said that he stood Hegel on his head, which is taken to mean that Marx made Hegel's dialectic atheistic or without morals, replacing logic and facts with mere argumentation and statements not necessarily true.

Showing those dispensationalists what Paul says in I Timothy 6: 20 only caused them to mock it.

You wrote here "You said: "never the twain, Israel and church, shall meet."   Well, God does not say that..... Let's stick to scriptures. God does not say Israel cannot meet Gentiles. "  I did not say that at all, but was quoting  Lewis S. Chafer, Systematic Theology (Dallas, Dallas Seminary Press, 1975, Vol. 4. pp. 315-323..

You said "What I see in your post is  a way for those who have some antiSemitism in their theology to try and make it become God's Word by adding, deleting, changing, translating wrongly, etc."

Its not a good idea to say something like this without some evidence .  What you as a dispensationalist  might think is "anti-Semitism" can be love of the Truth. 

I found that the best way to deal with the dialectic of the TOL dispensationalists was not to get into quarrels with them, because thats what  they want - to continue an argument on and on.



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Bladerunner

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"You said: "never the twain, Israel and church, shall meet."   Well, God does not say that..... Let's stick to scriptures. God does not say Israel cannot meet Gentiles. If fact, He allowed it in the OT as well as in the NT...

What I see in your post is  a way for those who have some antiSemitism in their theology to try and make it become God's Word by adding, deleting, changing, translating wrongly, etc.

So Sad."

I mentioned I Timothy 6: 20-21 in a recent post.  Here  Paul warns about the use of the dialectic and says to avoid the "oppositions of science falsely so called."  This is a translation of "αντιθεσεις της ψευδωνυμου γνωσεως," or "antitheseis  tes pseudonumou gnoseos."   Anti-thesis is a word from the early  Greek dialectic before the time of Christ.  Knowledge is a more accurate translation of gnoseos, though "falsely so called" is OK for pseudonumou.

After being on TOL for a while I noticed that some of the dispensationalists over there were using the dialectic as Paul describes it here.

Marx is claimed to have said that he stood Hegel on his head, which is taken to mean that Marx made Hegel's dialectic atheistic or without morals, replacing logic and facts with mere argumentation and statements not necessarily true.

Showing those dispensationalists what Paul says in I Timothy 6: 20 only caused them to mock it.

You wrote here "You said: "never the twain, Israel and church, shall meet."   Well, God does not say that..... Let's stick to scriptures. God does not say Israel cannot meet Gentiles. "  I did not say that at all, but was quoting  Lewis S. Chafer, Systematic Theology (Dallas, Dallas Seminary Press, 1975, Vol. 4. pp. 315-323..

You said "What I see in your post is  a way for those who have some antiSemitism in their theology to try and make it become God's Word by adding, deleting, changing, translating wrongly, etc."

Its not a good idea to say something like this without some evidence .  What you as a dispensationalist  might think is "anti-Semitism" can be love of the Truth. 

I found that the best way to deal with the dialectic of the TOL dispensationalists was not to get into quarrels with them, because thats what  they want - to continue an argument on and on.

You can try and use the old stand bye: false translation of the Greek/Hebrew Text. That dog don't hunt here with this member. The KJV has been around for 400+ years and all the errors, mostly spelling and others that do not change the message have been found and catalogued

Other versions of the Bible can be debunked very easily. Thus your arguments are  not Kosher.

I explained the truth to you and showed you that The Church (body of Christ ) is ONE, both Gentile and Jew. However there is another path for another group of people, God's Chosen Remnant of Israel.

You can deny it all you want to but it is there.,

Blade

1 Cor 15:3-4.."For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

Acts 17:11.."These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
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patrick jane

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Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


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