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Author Topic: Can You Debunk Flat Earth?  (Read 8568 times)

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patrick jane

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Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


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Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


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patrick jane

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Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


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sneakydove

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Re: Can You Debunk Flat Earth?
« Reply #42 on: July 28, 2020, 07:18:00 am »
Just putting this here to have a place to put it.

One of the prime examples I am frequently given of the world being a globe has something to do with measuring distances in the southern hemisphere.  People look at the Azimuthal Equidistant map and say, "Here, look at how long the sun is up in on the equator and look at how long the sun is up over the 55th degree south latitude.  It would be up for different times."  Or, "Look at how fat Australia is.  Surely it must be really long to drive across.  How come nobody has done that yet?"

On the face of it that argument looks quite damaging.  People bring the axioms they are used to using when looking at the world as a globe and try to use them to break down the flat earth.  But that's exactly the trouble, the axioms of the two worldviews are very different.

A fair number of globe believers don't really understand what lines of latitude and longitude represent.  Most think of them as being ways of breaking up the ball earth into regular sections.  In reality the lines of latitude and longitude are measurements of earth made relative to the fixed features of the sky and the passage of time.  For example, Polaris the North Star is the central focus of the northern lines of latitude, 90 degrees north latitude meaning the North Star would be directly overhead.  (Not that anybody has actually claimed to be there, but I digress.)  Lines of longitude have been arbitrarilya designated to come from Greenwich in England.  They have no fixed-in-time celestial marker like Polaris, although they do have regular markers in the form of the zodiac and the sun. 

Considering that these lines are the product of the relationship between the sky and the earth, and how we primarily calculate the measurements of the (ball) earth stem from the sky via the Eratosthenes method, using these lines to disprove the flat earth is irrelevant.  In the globe concept, the earth is a ball and the sky's features extend effectively infinitely out in all directions.  In the planar concept, the earth is flat and the sky presents itself to us as though the inside of a sphere when (assuming the dome firmament worldview) those features are refracted through the watery medium of the dome firmament.  In a simple abstract, if the shape of the earth shifts, the shape of the sky shifts a similar proportion. 

So to goes the discrepancy of measurement of distances with statute distances (like kilometers or miles), to relational distances (seconds, minutes, and degrees lat/long and nautical miles)b. Statute distances are of fixed value over the face of the earth (or up, or nonlinearly).  Relational distances like nautical miles change depend upon your markers, in this case celestial markers.  For example, you can walk a mile on a winding path or on a straight path and personally travel the same distance.  However, if you were measuring the distance traveled relative to a fixed point, the winding path would result in an absolute measurement of shorter distance than the straight path. 

On an Azimuthal plane, relational distances in the southern hemisphere would become longer if measured statute.  However this is further complicated by how those areas were first charted in the first place.  They were almost certainly charted relationally to the celestial features when they were first measured.  How much of that then was measured statute and how much was measured relational?  As time has passed, whosoever is "in-the-know" of this grand conspiracy has certainly dipped their toes into the method of measure of these southern regions, if they were not the primary charters.  If an individual wants to know the score on how the alleged down-under was measured, they would have to perform the relational and statute measurements from scratch and compare notes to the accepted values.  Using celestial bodies alone as a method of proving or disproving the Azimuthal plane as the shape of the earth is moot. 

Historically, there are records of the southern areas not corresponding to charted values.  In particular this was noted in longer travel times for goods being shipped across the Atlantic to or past the southern coast of Africa.  Additionally, there are reports of traversing the southern hemisphere near along a particular southern latitude taking a great deal more time than anticipated.  If memory serves, these instances are both noted in the works of Samuel Rowbothamp.  Contemporary indications are noted in the absence of flight-tracking south of the equator.c  Similar discrepencies are noted for freight ships leaving Australia.d

It is far more difficult to measure the earth than the main stream would have you believe.  I would even go so far to say as it is impossible to truly measure the earth.  I'm reminded of God challenging Job to measure the breadth of the earth.  The methods we have used or have been taught to use have been based on faulty axioms and thus resulted in the mess of the globe. 

a Exactly how arbitrary that may be relative to occulted sources I can't say for certain. 

b The definition of nautical miles has fairly recently been given a standard statute value of roughly 1.82 km if memory serves.  This further compounds the contemporary confusion. 

c  Given the crackdown on flat earth content on the main stream platforms, it would not surprise me if some simulated elements in flight tracking have been added.  I can say that when I first came to research the shape of the world I was unable to find consistent flight data off Brazil. 

d If I can find the source again I should like to link it here. 

p I have found a reference as being from Alex Gleason's "Is the Bible from Heaven, Is the Earth a Globe" in chapter 19, p379.  Also of interest is Gleason's Chapter 17 which covers other items brought up in this post.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2020, 10:22:53 pm by sneakydove »
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patrick jane

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Re: Can You Debunk Flat Earth?
« Reply #43 on: July 28, 2020, 11:54:36 pm »
Excellent post sneakydove, much appreciated. I might post this in another thread here also.
Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


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patrick jane

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Re: Can You Debunk Flat Earth?
« Reply #44 on: July 30, 2020, 11:54:31 pm »
I'm still pondering this
Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


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Re: Can You Debunk Flat Earth?
« Reply #45 on: July 31, 2020, 08:43:59 pm »
Is there anything I can clarify for you? 

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Re: Can You Debunk Flat Earth?
« Reply #46 on: July 31, 2020, 08:58:51 pm »
Is there anything I can clarify for you?
Not yet as I agree with everything you posted. I heard that nautical miles are roughly the same as a standard mile but I only heard that. I also cite Job and the measuring of the earth. My belief is that the earth beyond the Antarctic Circle goes on for possibly tens of thousands of miles in all directions.

I believe the earth cannot be measured and that we "found out" the earth is not what we are taught in 1946 with the V2 rocket and images. I think most rocket launches and "missions" are trying to collect images and data of the earth and cosmos. They certainly were not going to announce that the globe model is incorrect.

Nobody will ever know because nobody can explore beyond the ice wall, but rest assured that the military of several nations has attempted to understand and grasp the reality of what we live in.
Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


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sneakydove

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Re: Can You Debunk Flat Earth?
« Reply #47 on: July 31, 2020, 10:14:59 pm »
Not yet as I agree with everything you posted. I heard that nautical miles are roughly the same as a standard mile but I only heard that.

From Wikipedia, which shouldn't be too compromised on this particular subject:

Quote from: Wikipedia
Historically, it was defined as one minute (1/60 of a degree) of latitude along any line of longitude.

These days a nautical mile is 1.15 miles statute.  This robs it of its relational meaning. 

Quote
I also cite Job and the measuring of the earth. My belief is that the earth beyond the Antarctic Circle goes on for possibly tens of thousands of miles in all directions.

That's quite possible.  Visual phenomena in the deep south arctic probably look really odd as you near the dome wall.  There might well be an awful lot of area to cover before you get there.  Such a shame we can't just go visit. 

Quote
I believe the earth cannot be measured and that we "found out" the earth is not what we are taught in 1946 with the V2 rocket and images. I think most rocket launches and "missions" are trying to collect images and data of the earth and cosmos. They certainly were not going to announce that the globe model is incorrect.

No, they can't make an announcement.  It goes against pretty well every agenda.  The illusion of countries being separate entities?  About as separate as football teams; they're still in the same club or league.  Evolution and space aliens?  Can't let that cat out of the bag, then the atheists might start reading the Bible. 

I agree the earth can't be measured.  The predominant measuring stick used is light, and (to borrow from John) they that are in darkness comprehendeth it not. 

Quote
Nobody will ever know because nobody can explore beyond the ice wall, but rest assured that the military of several nations has attempted to understand and grasp the reality of what we live in.

I'm sure they've tested it and framed aspects of it for our consumption in the guise of ball-earthness.  Satellites very well might be fixed locations on the dome, for example.  The military will attempt to understand it only so far as it satisfies their ends, IE for purposes of warfare.  Imagine the deceptions you can pull if you know there's a dome and nobody else does?  Project things in the sky maybe, like a giant drive-in theater? 
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patrick jane

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Re: Can You Debunk Flat Earth?
« Reply #48 on: August 01, 2020, 07:20:10 am »
Not yet as I agree with everything you posted. I heard that nautical miles are roughly the same as a standard mile but I only heard that.

From Wikipedia, which shouldn't be too compromised on this particular subject:

Quote from: Wikipedia
Historically, it was defined as one minute (1/60 of a degree) of latitude along any line of longitude.

These days a nautical mile is 1.15 miles statute.  This robs it of its relational meaning. 

Quote
I also cite Job and the measuring of the earth. My belief is that the earth beyond the Antarctic Circle goes on for possibly tens of thousands of miles in all directions.

That's quite possible.  Visual phenomena in the deep south arctic probably look really odd as you near the dome wall.  There might well be an awful lot of area to cover before you get there.  Such a shame we can't just go visit. 

Quote
I believe the earth cannot be measured and that we "found out" the earth is not what we are taught in 1946 with the V2 rocket and images. I think most rocket launches and "missions" are trying to collect images and data of the earth and cosmos. They certainly were not going to announce that the globe model is incorrect.

No, they can't make an announcement.  It goes against pretty well every agenda.  The illusion of countries being separate entities?  About as separate as football teams; they're still in the same club or league.  Evolution and space aliens?  Can't let that cat out of the bag, then the atheists might start reading the Bible. 

I agree the earth can't be measured.  The predominant measuring stick used is light, and (to borrow from John) they that are in darkness comprehendeth it not. 

Quote
Nobody will ever know because nobody can explore beyond the ice wall, but rest assured that the military of several nations has attempted to understand and grasp the reality of what we live in.

I'm sure they've tested it and framed aspects of it for our consumption in the guise of ball-earthness.  Satellites very well might be fixed locations on the dome, for example.  The military will attempt to understand it only so far as it satisfies their ends, IE for purposes of warfare.  Imagine the deceptions you can pull if you know there's a dome and nobody else does?  Project things in the sky maybe, like a giant drive-in theater?
I've posted a longer explanation in other threads and the Biblical Flat Earth thread is my main FE thread, but I think the land is frozen and unreachable by any mode of transportation. I don't think anyone can reach the "edge" or the dome wall, if you will.

The distances and temperatures combined with communication problems and supply problems makes extended travel literally impossible. It would be necessary to build communication towers, landing strips and refueling stations along with perhaps dozens of other factors relating to things that can't be done.

The total size and scope of the earth plane is immeasurable and it does not move, as established many times in scripture. I think the land mass eventually forms a square shape, giving us the Four Corners of the Earth and the four angels as depicted on this image I will post below.


Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


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Re: Can You Debunk Flat Earth?
« Reply #49 on: August 01, 2020, 07:07:39 pm »
That is VERY interesting! 

I seem to recall postage stamps that depicted a map of the world were issued in the USA. It could have been any time between the late 1940s and mid 1980s.  On those map stamps, the antarctic was HYUUUGE.  (It might have been a poster published by the post office and not an actual stamp.  These are some foggy memories I'm working with here.)

patrick jane

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Re: Can You Debunk Flat Earth?
« Reply #50 on: August 02, 2020, 12:56:50 am »
My whole mission in life to get people thinking more about God and Jesus Christ AND to persuade people to question the "truth" as it is presented to us, to question authority and government, watchers in a sense. Truthers are what we are basically but I want God and Christ included in any movement that seeks truth.

Sneaky, you would not believe how much my life has changed for the better since discovering that the earth is not flying through space or spinning on an "axis". God has blessed me in so many ways my whole life and even more since starting this journey with FE and the forums etc.

Thank you for contributing here my friend it is greatly appreciated.
Hearing, believing and trusting the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross; His death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins and REPENTING, seals us with that Holy Spirit of Promise - EPHESIANS 1:10-14 KJV - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise. 2 Peter 3:9 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV - Ephesians 1:10-14 KJV - Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Romans 10:13 - Romans 10:17 - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Colossians 1:14 KJV -


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Re: Can You Debunk Flat Earth?
« Reply #51 on: August 02, 2020, 09:26:48 am »
Yes, it is a huge relief to know the earth is flat.  It's a little distressing as to how many people don't want to even look, though.

I'm glad to have found this place.  I found it on a watermark on an image on a video by... ODDtv I think?  Anyway, yes I'm happy to share my thoughts, analysis, and research here.

 

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